What is the Truth of Mama-Bhanji Relation

[jitendershooda]

A friend from South India was there with me last week. We were discussing gotra issues prevailed these days. He told me the following:

1) In Andhra too people follow Gotra system. They don't marry in same gotra. (Several other things are also there. They also have same kind of utha-patak in their rituals. He feel that some gotras have gone nearly 45% of the community and thus its hard to find suitable matches. Thus needs some change in the rituals.)
2) Mama is the best match for girls. He told that if the girl found some good match then Mama does the kanyadan saying that its good you have find a best match than me. I wish best of luck for your life. (He also told that though he had seen some kind of birth problems where marriages took place between close ones. He also supported our system of not marrying among Mama's family and gotra which is genetically better.)

He asked me what is the role of mama in our marriages. I told him that Mama brings his Bhanji on "Phera's". And we dont have this thing like mama-bhanji marriages. We even dont marry in Mama's gotra.

1) He asked me whats the reason behind bringing Bhanji by mama on pheras then?
2) Is it a trace of some older custom similar to south India where Mama is the best choice for Bhanji's marriage? (As there also if girl is married to some other person then Mama does the same as of ours)

Kindly put some light about Mama's role and reason for the every involvement of mama in our marriages.

 

[virj]

Mama's role is very important.

Do you know why we gift money or other things to our sister on rakshabandhan. And also when we visit a daughter and her in-laws. Or Y mama always 'gift' bhanjis when they visit them. I believe 'bhaat-bharna' is also a part of it.

As per vedic marriages the girl is escorted to the mandap by 'mama' and cousins. This custom has nothing to do with the one you mentioned "if the girl found some good match then Mama does the kanyadan saying that its good you have find a best match than me".

In fact its related to the above things which I mentioned. A mama can never be a match for his bhanji as per our marriages.
Mama will come up with 'bhaat' when the girl get married not with the marriage proposal . Its a centuries old tradition.

This bhaat ceremony used to take place a day before the marriage but now many times its done the same day. Its not limited to Jats.

 

[sidchhikara]

Maama - bhanji don't get married, its mama's kid ... first cousin.

Maama's role is to bring his checkbook to the party and spend money on useless things without being appreciated. At the end maama comes out being accused of being cheap.

 

[sunillathwal]

Maama - bhanji don't get married, its mama's kid ... first cousin.

Maama's role is to bring his checkbook to the party and spend money on useless things without being appreciated. At the end maama comes out being accused of being cheap.

Wrong, in south Indian Hindus.. Mama is supposed to be the best choice for a girl. In fact, a common saying in south India is something like that it is a girl's DUTY to give her daughter to her (real) brother (as wife); if this is not possible for some reason then she should HELP her brother in finding a suitable bride.

I don't remember the link but around 35% marriages (2007 data) in AP, TN, KTK are in-family marriages, majority of them between mama-bhanji.

 

[sunillathwal]

He asked me what is the role of mama in our marriages. I told him that Mama brings his Bhanji on "Phera's". And we dont have this thing like mama-bhanji marriages. We even dont marry in Mama's gotra.

1) He asked me whats the reason behind bringing Bhanji by mama on pheras then?
2) Is it a trace of some older custom similar to south India where Mama is the best choice for Bhanji's marriage? (As there also if girl is married to some other person then Mama does the same as of ours)

Kindly put some light about Mama's role and reason for the every involvement of mama in our marriages.

I think, involvement of mama in marriages (for that matter in festivals, death anniversaries, other gatherings) is due to the fact that a girl is not given any property rights (and it had some valid reasons), so it becomes a duty of brother to help out (monetarily) in any major function (!).

If we look at villages in haryana/up/rajasthan, in the name of the 'property', villagers don't have much (no big plots, no savings, cash balance hardly sufficient to arrange marriages etc.). All that one have is agriculture land. Even if a father gives the land rights to his daughters, it is simply not practical for the daughters (or their husbands) to till the land and do Kheti-baadi. This is important as northern India never had the tradition of same-village marriages. Recent surge in the prices of agriculture land make 2 acres look like a 'big' property. Few years back, it was almost 'useless' for a daughter.

Dowries, Holi-Diwali pe 'seedha' (ek do suits, mithai ka dabba, etc.), sawan ka seedha, Bhaat mein cash, cloths, Rakshabnadhan pe gifts, Peeliya (child-birth) some cash, cloths for baby, some gifts.. in all these there is involvement from maternal side (in essence, daughter is given her 'due' by his brother/father).

well, there is always some possibility of custom being influenced/modified by other communities and/or with time But i believe, Kanyadan by mama is a symbolic of the paying a daughter her debts by his brother. To me it seem more rational.

 

[sidchhikara]

Khaap panchayat should raise the issue of girls marrying their maama's in South India.

 

[anilsangwan]

में आपके विचारों से सहमत हूँ भाई .... भात का चक्कर ही इस लिए होता है की बहन की आर्थिक मदद की जाए क्यूंकि ज्यादातर लड़कियां अपने पिता की जायदाद में से हिस्सा - बटवारा नहीं लेती... .... लेकिन टाइम बदल रहा है.....गाँव में ऐसे उदाहरण भी देखने को मिले हैं की लड़कियां अपने हिस्से की ज़मीन बेच देती हैं यह कह कर की सब भात तो भरवा लिए..... इब के जरुरत है?....... शायद ऐसे उदाहरण आप की नजर में भी आये हों.... चाहे भाई की फुर्सत हो या ना..... लड्किया आशा रखती हैं की भाई जम कर भात भरे...... कुछ लोभी होकर ऐसा करती हैं तो कुछ आस पड़ोस के लोगों की नजर में ऊंचा दिखने के लिए...की हमारा पीहर कितना मजबूत है..... हालांकि सब एक जैसे नहीं होती .... लेकिन ये पूरी प्रथा ही गलत है ........

I think, involvement of mama in marriages (for that matter in festivals, death anniversaries, other gatherings) is due to the fact that a girl is not given any property rights (and it had some valid reasons), so it becomes a duty of brother to help out (monetarily) in any major function (!).

If we look at villages in haryana/up/rajasthan, in the name of the 'property', villagers don't have much (no big plots, no savings, cash balance hardly sufficient to arrange marriages etc.). All that one have is agriculture land. Even if a father gives the land rights to his daughters, it is simply not practical for the daughters (or their husbands) to till the land and do Kheti-baadi. This is important as northern India never had the tradition of same-village marriages. Recent surge in the prices of agriculture land make 2 acres look like a 'big' property. Few years back, it was almost 'useless' for a daughter.

Dowries, Holi-Diwali pe 'seedha' (ek do suits, mithai ka dabba, etc.), sawan ka seedha, Bhaat mein cash, cloths, Rakshabnadhan pe gifts, Peeliya (child-birth) some cash, cloths for baby, some gifts.. in all these there is involvement from maternal side (in essence, daughter is given her 'due' by his brother/father).

well, there is always some possibility of custom being influenced/modified by other communities and/or with time But i believe, Kanyadan by mama is a symbolic of the paying a daughter her debts by his brother. To me it seem more rational.

 

[anilsangwan]

Khaap panchayat should raise the issue of girls marrying their maama's in South India.

हा हा हा हा हा हा हा..... शायद हरयाना से कुछ बूढ्ले भेजने पड़ेंगे भाई...... उन् के खाप का बीज बोवन खातिर..... बाबा रामदेव की तरह ज्ञान की क्लास लेंगे....

Jokes apart.... your suggestion is very valid sid.... people in south india need to do something about it

 

[singhvp]

It is customary in Tamil Nadu for a Mama to marry his niece (Bhanji). The custom of marrying Mama's daughter is also prevalent in some parts of South India.

The custom of giving gifts or clothes etc. should be done away with. Instead, girls should be allowed by the family to remain equal stake holders in the ancestral property to avoid a disconnect from the ancestral village. Why should girls remain on the tender mercy of the male folks of family. The custom of indemnifying girls by way of giving clothes/gifts etc. in lieu of cessation of their right to the ancestral land/property is quite vague.

 

[sidchhikara]

हा हा हा हा हा हा हा..... शायद हरयाना से कुछ बूढ्ले भेजने पड़ेंगे भाई...... उन् के खाप का बीज बोवन खातिर..... बाबा रामदेव की तरह ज्ञान की क्लास लेंगे....

Jokes apart.... your suggestion is very valid sid.... people in south india need to do something about it

Bhai Anil ... bhej te de ... parr inn adiyal buddhan ne idli dosa mein swaad nahi aawe .. inke tikkad bhaske bina err ulti bakwaad kare bina jee sa naa aata.

 

[anilsangwan]

It is customary in Tamil Nadu for a Mama to marry his niece (Bhanji). .

I wonder if the age difference does not matter in such cases..... Mama should be at least of Mother's age ( or comparable to to her age)........ so the age difference between husband and wife in such a alliance will be minm 10-15 years....

ebb samajh mein aayi.... yeh jyaadatar south indian itne mariyal se kyun hoya karein...

 

[singhvp]

I wonder if the age difference does not matter in such cases..... Mama should be at least of Mother's age ( or comparable to to her age)........ so the age difference between husband and wife in such a alliance will be minm 10-15 years....

ebb samajh mein aayi.... yeh jyaadatar south indian itne mariyal se kyun hoya karein...

Age difference matters a lot in marital bonding but some people with conservative mindset give more importance to blind adherence of customs without taking into account the ill-effects of age difference and the biological mismatch. Pher thodi bahut ghat badh ho jya to ilzaam bechari masoom bhanji par aa jata hai.

 

[spdeshwal]

A friend from South India was there with me last week. We were discussing gotra issues prevailed these days. He told me the following:

1) In Andhra too people follow Gotra system. They don't marry in same gotra. (Several other things are also there. They also have same kind of utha-patak in their rituals. He feel that some gotras have gone nearly 45% of the community and thus its hard to find suitable matches. Thus needs some change in the rituals.)
2) Mama is the best match for girls. He told that if the girl found some good match then Mama does the kanyadan saying that its good you have find a best match than me. I wish best of luck for your life. (He also told that though he had seen some kind of birth problems where marriages took place between close ones. He also supported our system of not marrying among Mama's family and gotra which is genetically better.)

He asked me what is the role of mama in our marriages. I told him that Mama brings his Bhanji on "Phera's". And we dont have this thing like mama-bhanji marriages. We even dont marry in Mama's gotra.

1) He asked me whats the reason behind bringing Bhanji by mama on pheras then?
2) Is it a trace of some older custom similar to south India where Mama is the best choice for Bhanji's marriage? (As there also if girl is married to some other person then Mama does the same as of ours)

Kindly put some light about Mama's role and reason for the every involvement of mama in our marriages.

जीतू , विपिन भाई ने बिलकुल सही लिखा है !
आपने देखा होगा, बहन की शादी में फेरों के समय भाई लॉन्ग और खील अग्नि में डाल कर अपनी बहिन की ही नहीं बल्कि उसकी संतान की भी सुरक्षा की प्रतिज्ञा लेता है
भाई कहता है , जैसे मैंने अभी तक तुम्हारी रक्षा की है, विवहा उपरांत भी करता ऐसे ही अपने दायित्व का निर्वहन करता रहूँगा और आगे चल तुम्हारी संतान की सुरक्षा का भी वचन लेता हूँ !
यह उसी प्रतिज्ञा का पालन करते हुए, मामा भांजी को सुरक्षित विवाह मंडप तक लाता है ! पहले कम उम्र की लड़कियों की शादियाँ होती थी , इसलिए गोद में उठा का लाने की रिवाज चल पड़ी !
उसी तरह , भांजे की घुडचडी के वक्त भी मामा मोजूद रहता है और भांजे को घोड़े पर बैठाता है !

खुश रहो !

 

[drssrana2003]

In fact the mama-bhanji and cross cousi marriages have their roots in the system of matriarchal societyand the inheritance laws. The matriarchL SYSTEM ID FAST DISAPPEARING IN SOUTH. bUT THE VESTIGES REMAIN. In cross cousin marriages (whioch have been noticed in some punjabi communities also) have their origin in providing a safe haven to the young bride in the home either of her father's sister or her motner's sister in a a society where thwe mother -in -law used to be a tyranAs far as the relationship of the mama in Jat culture is concerned it hAS BEEN RIGHTLY STATRD BY SEVERAL FRIENDS ABOVE is based on the principle of compensation for opting out of partioning the father's landed p[roperty. The compensation is nort limited to Bhat bharna. It continues throughout the life of a sister. It is based on the supreme principle of land not being alienated in small p[arcels. Selling the sAME AFTER CLAIMINg one's share is simply against the crdinAL PRINCIPLE OF LAND BELONGS TO THE kHERA FIRST AND THEROUGH IT TO THE FAMILIES.

 

[fateh]

Khaap panchayat should raise the issue of girls marrying their maama's in South India.

Khap Panchayats are supposed to educate, guide, help, mediate, solve problems, protect, poor/weak/harassed people of their community/sub community/area, khap panchayats are ment to protect their culture, traditions & customs, Khap panchayats are supposed to help in maitaining peace & harmony in their society & work for the unity, welfare & progress of their people. Khap panchayats are not interested in interfering into affairs of others. Thus, why khap panchayats should raise any issue of south or go to the south. khap managers are not free from responsibilities of their individual & community families & have enough work to do for their own community & area, if they are keen to do. Also food of south may not suit to them as some one remarked. Therefore, people who are concern with the south traditions, those who like south traditions, can enjoy their food, people who are always sarcastic, against & criticise their own customs, traditions, food, their elders & their khap panchayats, such people must go to south to enjoy south traditions, customs & food. I think, instead of giving wrong suggestions in a sarcastic way, one should contribute to the discussion if one can otherwise it is batter to keep mum. Also this thread or khap panchayats shoud not be made insument for enjoyment, there is a seperate place for mauj masti on this forum. Human being must think, express, act & behave like an Huma being. regards

 

[sidchhikara]

Khap Panchayats are supposed to educate, guide, help, mediate, solve problems, protect, poor/weak/harassed people of their community/sub community/area, khap panchayats are ment to protect their culture, traditions & customs, Khap panchayats are supposed to help in maitaining peace & harmony in their society & work for the unity, welfare & progress of their people. Khap panchayats are not interested in interfering into affairs of others. Thus, why khap panchayats should raise any issue of south or go to the south. khap managers are not free from responsibilities of their individual & community families & have enough work to do for their own community & area, if they are keen to do. Also food of south may not suit to them as some one remarked. Therefore, people who are concern with the south traditions, those who like south traditions, can enjoy their food, people who are always sarcastic, against & criticise their own customs, traditions, food, their elders & their khap panchayats, such people must go to south to enjoy south traditions, customs & food. I think, instead of giving wrong suggestions in a sarcastic way, one should contribute to the discussion if one can otherwise it is batter to keep mum. Also this thread or khap panchayats shoud not be made insument for enjoyment, there is a seperate place for mauj masti on this forum. Human being must think, express, act & behave like an Huma being. regards

Aap te ghana chhoo maan gaye ... mele meh toh ke mere seeng maar diye aaj.

 

[fateh]

Aap te ghana chhoo maan gaye ... mele meh toh ke mere seeng maar diye aaj.

I am not enoyed, but dear, please think again, is this a proper way to discuss a topic or to reply to elders. Dear there is no age for learning, learn good things & change according to learning, it will pay you back in golden coins, atlist try once. Niether you can give me anything nor me to you, it is only mutual respect. regards

 

[sidchhikara]

I am not enoyed, but dear, please think again, is this a proper way to discuss a topic or to reply to elders. Dear there is no age for learning, learn good things & change according to learning, it will pay you back in golden coins, atlist try once. Niether you can give me anything nor me to you, it is only mutual respect. regards

.

Oh stop !! I was trying to be good-humored about it and you come back and go on a pointless tirade. I am out - no more replies from me on this conversation.

 

[fateh]

.

Oh stop !! I was trying to be good-humored about it and you come back and go on a pointless tirade. I am out - no more replies from me on this conversation.

God bless you many children, all the best