What was haryanvi language called in past ?

[vikaskajal]

Hi Dear Jatlanders.
Haryana as a state came in to existence in 1966.
But our language or boli known as haryanvi was in use much before Haryana was born.
I know haryanvi is a varient of 'KHARI BOLI'.
What was our language named before the state was born ?

Any definate answer or thought is welcome.

 

[prashantacmet]

good question ??......

 

[dndeswal]

good question ??......

<O</O
Rather a childish question. No region on this earth comes in existence through political or administrative boundaries. If tomorrow a state in the name of ‘Vidarbha’ or ‘Bundelkhand’ is created, it does not mean it is ‘born’ or ‘came in existence’ on a so-and-so date. These regions exist for thousands of years and are known by these very names. Similarly, 'Haryana' also is thousands of years old and its ancient boundaries consisted of present-day Haryana, almost entire Indian Punjab, many districts of present-day Rajasthan and some regions across Yamuna, upto Badayun district.
<O</O
<O</O
And Haryanavi language was also known by this very name before 1966. <O</O
.

 

[rkumar]

<O</O
Rather a childish question. No region on this earth comes in existence through political or administrative boundaries. If tomorrow a state in the name of ‘Vidarbha’ or ‘Bundelkhand’ is created, it does not mean it is ‘born’ or ‘came in existence’ on a so-and-so date. These regions exist for thousands of years and are known by these very names. Similarly, 'Haryana' also is thousands of years old and its ancient boundaries consisted of present-day Haryana, almost entire Indian Punjab, many districts of present-day Rajasthan and some regions across Yamuna, upto Badayun district.
<O</O
<O</O
And Haryanavi language was also known by this very name before 1966. <O</O
.

I don't think the question is childish. Region might be historic but not necessarily the language. For the so called Haryanvi to be classified as language it has to fulfil some basic requirements which are;

1. Does it have its own alphabets which are unique ?
2. Does it have have literature written in its own unique alphabets ?

To best of my knowledge neither of above exists. So called Haryanvi at best can be classified only as a dilect of Hindi and thats why its nothing but just a Khadi Bolli.

RK^2

 

[vikaskajal]

<O</O
Rather a childish question. No region on this earth comes in existence through political or administrative boundaries. If tomorrow a state in the name of ‘Vidarbha’ or ‘Bundelkhand’ is created, it does not mean it is ‘born’ or ‘came in existence’ on a so-and-so date. These regions exist for thousands of years and are known by these very names. Similarly, 'Haryana' also is thousands of years old and its ancient boundaries consisted of present-day Haryana, almost entire Indian Punjab, many districts of present-day Rajasthan and some regions across Yamuna, upto Badayun district.
<O</O
<O</O
And Haryanavi language was also known by this very name before 1966. <O</O
.

Haryana was mentioned as early as Mahabharata but having said that ,I haven't seen any old map (British ,mughal or previous era) which describes the boundries as you have described under Haryana.But there are maps which mention old states like Maghda,Punjab. So there is high possibility that the title or name HARAYANA was infact no so popular and common in old times.
I agree that No Region ('Culture' should be more appropiate word) come in to existense through political boundries including ours.But during its evolution it might have been reffered by different names. For eg What we call Camobodian language or culture today was called as Kamboja ,Khmer in past.
And thats all I wanted to ask whether our Boli and culture were called by some other name as well.

 

[prashantacmet]

THEEK KAHI AAPNE

I don't think the question is childish. Region might be historic but not necessarily the language. For the so called Haryanvi to be classified as language it has to fulfil some basic requirements which are;

1. Does it have its own alphabets which are unique ?
2. Does it have have literature written in its own unique alphabets ?

To best of my knowledge neither of above exists. So called Haryanvi at best can be classified only as a dilect of Hindi and thats why its nothing but just a Khadi Bolli.

RK^2

 

[spdeshwal]

My belief is that Haryanvi as a dialect or Khadi boli is older than Hindi Language, if we go strictly by the definition of the language. May be it has gone through many faces in maturing a present day distinct dialect.My observation is based on following questions.

Now question is, how old is Hindi language?
What is the oldest literature written in Hindi?
What is oldest literature written using Devnagri Alhphabet?

I believe, we don't have a piece of literature older than 1000 years.

 

[jitendershooda]

I don't think the question is childish. Region might be historic but not necessarily the language. For the so called Haryanvi to be classified as language it has to fulfil some basic requirements which are;

1. Does it have its own alphabets which are unique ?
2. Does it have have literature written in its own unique alphabets ?

To best of my knowledge neither of above exists. So called Haryanvi at best can be classified only as a dilect of Hindi and thats why its nothing but just a Khadi Bolli.

RK^2

Rk ji Ya baat to theek hai aapki ek childish question konya ...

You are right that Haryanvi is not a language ... but this doesnt change the question and its intent by any means, isnt it? And Dialects are more older than languages thats what I feel.

So, What haryanvi Dialect was named as; earlier to 1966. Dont know before 1966 also this region was known as Haryana? And if so or not then was it Haryanvi that time too?

 

[lrburdak]

See what is on wikipedia about Haryanvi language

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haryanvi

 

[narenderkharb]

I don't think the question is childish. Region might be historic but not necessarily the language. For the so called Haryanvi to be classified as language it has to fulfil some basic requirements which are;

1. Does it have its own alphabets which are unique ?
2. Does it have have literature written in its own unique alphabets ?

To best of my knowledge neither of above exists. So called Haryanvi at best can be classified only as a dilect of Hindi and thats why its nothing but just a Khadi Bolli.

RK^2

Really childish..

Having unique alphabets is no prequalification to be recorded as a distinct language .

Do Sindhi language recorded as one of the main languages in Indian constitution has some distinct alphabets.

There was no Hindi earlier ,Hindi has been created out of this khari /haryanvi boli via persian influence when ke hal sai ? changed to Kaya hal hai as persians used to put H FOR S .

Also Haryana is recorded as Haryana even in Anangpal times though there was no Punjab UP and Rajsthan in those days.

 

[narenderkharb]

Rk ji Ya baat to theek hai aapki ek childish question konya ...

You are right that Haryanvi is not a language ... but this doesnt change the question and its intent by any means, isnt it? And Dialects are more older than languages thats what I feel.

So, What haryanvi Dialect was named as; earlier to 1966. Dont know before 1966 also this region was known as Haryana? And if so or not then was it Haryanvi that time too?

Though Haryana Desh (modern western UP ,Haryana ,Eastern Punjab and north eastern Rajsthan ) is more than thousand years old ,there was no composite language called Haryanvi as such ,This area was called Desh and its language as Deswali ,however Brij ,Bagari and Punjabi too were other sub languages or dialects spoken in earlier Haryana Desh.

 

[vijay]

Nice point

I don't think the question is childish. Region might be historic but not necessarily the language. For the so called Haryanvi to be classified as language it has to fulfil some basic requirements which are;

1. Does it have its own alphabets which are unique ?
2. Does it have have literature written in its own unique alphabets ?

To best of my knowledge neither of above exists. So called Haryanvi at best can be classified only as a dilect of Hindi and thats why its nothing but just a Khadi Bolli.

RK^2

Yes RK sir agree with you

I doubts that this so called Haryanvi Language is spoken even in All Haryana itself.

I seriously consider it as just a local dilect of some specific districts of Haryana State ( at present )

 

[vijay]

So, What haryanvi Dialect was named as; earlier to 1966. Dont know before 1966 also this region was known as Haryana? And if so or not then was it Haryanvi that time too?

Yes, there was no Haryana earlier than 1966. I don't think that Moughals or British could had neglected it if Haryana name existed so long back.

Kurukshetra. Thanesar were so prominent in History but not Haryana.

I suppose Haryanvi word just originated after 1966 and dare to say bhai ..... in a few selective distircts in Haryana State only .... otherwise in north western region of Haryana ...... Ambala, Kaithal, Narwana Sirsa ( people speak Punjabi ) ...... in south west Haryana ( Sirsa, Fatehabad, Hisar, Bhiwani ) people speak bargi ( Rajasthani/dilect of Rajasthan ) ...... while Narnaul, Mahendergarh, Faridbad region speaks typical Rajasthani. Karnal and Yamuna Nagar people use a mixed dialect of Haryanvi and of western UP.

So, Rohtak, Panipat, Sonipat, Jind, Bahadurgarh etc. is the area where this so called Haryanvi Language is used only

 

[narenderkharb]

Yes, there was no Haryana earlier than 1966.

No Vijay you simply don't know this .

Have you read about Palam Baoli Inscription written at the coronation of Prthiviraj Chouhan ,Haryana is mentioned as such in this inscription.

Have you read the Jinacharya chronicle written in Mahipal tomar times in ninth century AD more than thousand years ago.

They say there is a country on earth called Haryana Desh with its capital Indraprastha (Delhi)whose wealth and beauty is even adored by Lord Indra.

So can always ask brothers when in doubt.

Again I will repeat that all languages don't have different scripts it is not a big secret to find out .

You are confusing two terms ,haryanvi as understood today synonymous with Deswali Language and language spoken in earlier Haryana desh that comprises other dialects like Brij ,Khari boli,Bagari and Punjabi,Btw

To your surprise word Punjab was first used in fourteenth century not earlier and for Rajsthan you now very well is post independence .

Haryana was known more than thousand years earlier than people heard names of UP and Rajsthan

 

[vijay]

No Vijay you simply don't know this .

Have you read about Palam Baoli Inscription written at the coronation of Prthiviraj Chouhan ,Haryana is mentioned as such in this inscription.

Have you read the Jinacharya chronicle written in Mahipal tomar times in ninth century AD more than thousand years ago.

They say there is a country on earth called Haryana Desh with its capital Indraprastha (Delhi)whose wealth and beauty is even adored by Lord Indra.

So can always ask brothers when in doubt.

Narender Bhai, it's as simple as that you mention in your post that i just posted what i know at first hand .......... and i am damn sure that what i know about History is like a drop against a Sea ( means ....... your knowledge about History ).

You are confusing two terms ,haryanvi as understood today synonymous with Deswali Language and language spoken in earlier Haryana desh that comprises other dialects like Brij ,Khari boli,Bagari and Punjabi,Btw

I accept that you are always right when we talk about History ...... but my question is that why this vast spoken dilect is just constrainted within a few districts only.

To your surprise word Punjab was first used in fourteenth century not earlier and for Rajsthan you now very well is post independence .

Haryana is so easy to provide a name being a little area ..... how can people name a region having an area almost 30 timer bigger than Haryana ......... even larger than England ...... i hope you know what i mean NOW

Haryana was known more than thousand years earlier than people heard names of UP and Rajsthan

I remember Hastinapur, Indraprasth etc. but never heard of about the word Delhi before the British.......

I think it concludes Bhai

 

[fatehsingh]

Yes, there was no Haryana earlier than 1966. I don't think that Moughals or British could had neglected it if Haryana name existed so long back.

Kurukshetra. Thanesar were so prominent in History but not Haryana.

I suppose Haryanvi word just originated after 1966 and dare to say bhai ..... in a few selective distircts in Haryana State only .... otherwise in north western region of Haryana ...... Ambala, Kaithal, Narwana Sirsa ( people speak Punjabi ) ...... in south west Haryana ( Sirsa, Fatehabad, Hisar, Bhiwani ) people speak bargi ( Rajasthani/dilect of Rajasthan ) ...... while Narnaul, Mahendergarh, Faridbad region speaks typical Rajasthani. Karnal and Yamuna Nagar people use a mixed dialect of Haryanvi and of western UP.

So, Rohtak, Panipat, Sonipat, Jind, Bahadurgarh etc. is the area where this so called Haryanvi Language is used only

and that area is known as JAT BELT AND HARYANVI LANGUAGE IS SYNONYMS TO JATS

 

[fatehsingh]

http://www.jatland.com/forums/images/kirsch/misc/menu_open.gif

I remember Hastinapur, Indraprasth etc. but never heard of about the word Delhi before the British.......

I think it concludes Bhai

DELHI SULTANATE IS THE WORD WHICH IS USED EVEN BEFORE THE BRITISHERS ARRIVED IN INDIA....AND DONT FORGET THE DELHI GATE IN LAHORE WHICH WAS BUILT MUCH BEFORE THE BRITISHERS CAME TO INDIA AND IT WAS NAMED AS DELHI GATE SINCE ITS CONSTRUCTION DONE...........

 

[rkumar]

............
Again I will repeat that all languages don't have different scripts it is not a big secret to find out .

..................

Point well taken as far as scripts are concerned. However, I can't think of even single book of any historical significance ever written in so called Hqaryanvi or Deshwali language. We often claim that Vedas, Purans, Geeta etc all were written on the land of Haryana. How come none of these books or any other afterwards find any mention of Haryanvi/ Deshwali ? Any Pandu lipi books ever written in Haryanvi??

RK^2

 

[jat222in]

Haryanvi is not a language it is a "BOLI"

I think Haryanvi is not a language. It is a BOLI. The script is same as of HINDI is. "Devnagri". And it is written in devnagri. So there is a difference between language and boli. Further I would like to know more about the topic.

Point well taken as far as scripts are concerned. However, I can't think of even single book of any historical significance ever written in so called Hqaryanvi or Deshwali language. We often claim that Vedas, Purans, Geeta etc all were written on the land of Haryana. How come none of these books or any other afterwards find any mention of Haryanvi/ Deshwali ? Any Pandu lipi books ever written in Haryanvi??

RK^2

 

[narenderkharb]

Narender Bhai, it's as simple as that you mention in your post that i just posted what i know at first hand .......... and i am damn sure that what i know about History is like a drop against a Sea ( means ....... your knowledge about History ).

Despite of your good knowledge you are humble ,Wait a minute I will ask Devender Kumar to note it ,He just missed this great Jat character in his post about Jats.