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Dr. Partap Ji,
First, Let me welcome you on the Jatland. We always need our senior JAT members here to teach us something about the JAT History / knowledge and some good habbits.

I agree that Sir Chajju ram is a great hero of hindustan and nobody questioned or can never question about his greatness or loyality to the country.

I have some thoughts I would like to put on the table.

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"Very strange, people know so little about a GREAT JAT !"

Could you please tell if any study book from K.G. to 12 th covers any of these great personalities even in history books outside of haryana ?

JATS are everywhere and not only in HARYANA.
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"AS FAR AS A WHO IS GREAT, THIS IS ALWAYS CONTROVERSIAL."

GREAT is always great and I think it can never be controversial if the person talking about the GREAT knows about him.

No one should presume that everyone knows about everybody.
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"GREATS ARE GREAT. NO COMPARISON!"

I think they can still be compared if they are in the same field but they all are great. We are not saying that one is great and the other one is not. We are just comparing their acheivements and again there are so many factors which may impact on their acheivements. I agree its a tough job. Comparision does not mean that we are down grading the other one.

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"WE SHOULD RESPECT THEM AND LEARN FROM THEM."

THIS IS VERY TRUE. - NO EXCUSE.

Actually I would say that we should respect each and everybody unless until we found something WRONG/annoying. (Tit for Tat) These are my personal views and should not be mistaken as personal attack on anybody.
 
Dear Ashok,
Thanks for taking interest in my post on Seth Chhaju Ram.
This is my belated reply due to my certain preoccupations.
You have raised certain questions, which I think I should reply.
I shall be brief, as far as, possible and these are my personal views and please, don’t take it other way.
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1. "VERY STRANGE, PEOPLE KNOW SO LITTLE ABOUT A GREAT JAT !"
Q. Could you please tell if any study book from K.G. to 12 th covers any of these great personalities even in history books outside of haryana ?
JATS are everywhere and not only in HARYANA.
A. We Indians, as a whole, have been very poor Historians. Sadly, our writers of Modern history are not Indians but foreigners like Cunninghum and Todd etc. History of Jats is in even poorer shape. All our knowledge of our past used to be oral, ie told to from generation to generation and not recorded anywhere chronologically. Our only reliable records are with JAGGAAs who record the birth of new baby and PANDAAs who record the death of someone in the family. From these records you can construct your Genealogy Tree of your ancestors, but they don’t mention the deeds done by that person. They romanticize their records and are not reliable as history. They always stretch the Genealogy of every caste upto either Ram [Suryavanshi] or Krishan [Chandervanshi] !
But now some good books on the Jat History are available and they do mention the role of our present heroes.
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2. "AS FAR AS A WHO IS GREAT, THIS IS ALWAYS CONTROVERSIAL."
Q. GREAT is always great and I think it can never be controversial if the person talking about the GREAT knows about him.
No one should presume that everyone knows about everybody.

A. There is no fixed criterion to define greatness or a scale to measure it. This is purely a subjective assessment and not an objective analysis. Everyone has his own model heroes and individual assessments are bound to differ. So controversies are also bound to occur. My only point was that we should not compare them with each other and create a hierarchy.

You are right, nobody can know everybody, but it is better if one knows if a person in query is really somebody, especially from one’s own community. It gives some inspiration and pride.
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3. "GREATS ARE GREAT. NO COMPARISON!"
Q. I think they can still be compared if they are in the same field but they all are great. We are not saying that one is great and the other one is not. We are just comparing their achievements and again there are so many factors which may impact on their achievements. I agree its a tough job. Comparison does not mean that we are down grading the other one.

A. I think it is already covered in my first answer.
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4. "WE SHOULD RESPECT THEM AND LEARN FROM THEM."
This Is Very True. - No Excuse.
Actually I would say that we should respect each and everybody unless until we found something WRONG/annoying. (Tit for Tat) These are my personal views and should not be mistaken as personal attack on anybody.

A. Thanks. I also agree.

I hope this covers the main points.
A healthy discussion always benefits.
With warm regards and all good wishes,
Cordially,

Dr. Partap Singh Sangwan
Sangwan Hospital
Uklana Mandi Distt. Hisar Haryana -125 113
Ph. 01693-233077, 233677, 235077
pssangwan@rediffmail.com

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Hi !
Shri Ranvir Singh's list of prominent jat personalities is limited.If choice is limited to this list only I consider Maharaja Suraj Mal as the greatest personality.His strugle for establishing a jat kingdom at a very difficult and crucial time was worth appriciating.He should be given a due honour.
If we look at recent times I would like to mention one name-Dr.Gyan Prakash Pilania, Ex. D.G.Police of Rajasthan and Sanrakshak Jat samaj.His role is worth mentioning because he united Jats of Rajasthan,Haryana,Delhi,U.P.,motivated them to strrugle for common cause of community, to restore the honour of jats.The movement created by Dr.Pilania was so strong that the govt. of India and other state govts.were bound to hounor the demands for reservation for jats in the Govt.jobs,I do not find any parallel movement in recent times.
L.R.Burdak
 
Dear All,
We should not compare these great leaders. With no offence to any one, we include Shewag and forget about Major Shaitan Singh PVC, Col Hoshiyar Singh PVC and likes of Brigadier Hoshiyar Singh MVC (Hero of 62 war).
While Virendra Shewag has done well for himself, he has a long way to go. And if the sports is the criteria then why forget Master Chandgi Ram and the long list of such sportsmen.
 
dear all , its really sad to see ppl talking and discussing as we do in election days in villages. it is something like convessing for a candidate and crossing all limits of decency or could be breaking all level of human maturity.we all have our favourates but does it really sound well on this site to talk all this?it can lead only to bad taste,the level could be any.i suggest,we should always keep in mind the level of the thread.this site is being taken seriously by the community and we all have to help it to be so. as the site is totally nonpolitical so we all adhere to it.

kindly do not take it as personal offence bec it is not meant hear ,belive me
 
Seth Chhajju Ram

One of Seth Chhajju Ram family member is Sunil Lamba. He was the Chairman of Bhiwani Zila Parishad in the earlier term. This time his wife, Seema Lamba is the Chairperson.

There are many interesting stories about Seth Chhajju Ram's pride in being a jat and his fights with the traditional trading communities. As a matter of fact the traders all ganged up against him, since he was a jat, and almost totally ruined his business.

Rajiv
 
hi all
The point of discussion was who is greatest out of few names the author proposed leaving scope for others also. A large no. of personalities who fought for jat rights but did not find place in history can now be brought out.
L.R.Burdak
 
Aap thik keh rahe hein Burdak Sahab. Let us continue with that.

I don't know much about history but currently Ch. Sahib Singh Verma is also doing good for JAT community. He has worked a lot for outer Delhi development which is JAT dominated area.

regards,

L.R.Burdak (Feb 12, 2003 09:25 p.m.):
hi all
The point of discussion was who is greatest out of few names the author proposed leaving scope for others also. A large no. of personalities who fought for jat rights but did not find place in history can now be brought out.
L.R.Burdak
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Col Sahab,

I am a distant relative of Brigadier Hoshiar Singh Rathee. And I am also compiling a list of all war heroes from Haryana who got PVC, MVC and VrC.

Are you sure Brig Hoshiar Singh got the MVC? As far as I know, while he was a hero of the 1962 war, he got no medal. Can you please confirm this?

And Major Shaitan Singh, was he a Jat? As far as I know he was a Rajput from Rajasthan. Apologies for my ignorance.

Regards,

Rajiv

Col Virendra S Tavathia(Retd) (Feb 12, 2003 09:49 a.m.):
Dear All,
We should not compare these great leaders. With no offence to any one, we include Shewag and forget about Major Shaitan Singh PVC, Col Hoshiyar Singh PVC and likes of Brigadier Hoshiyar Singh MVC (Hero of 62 war).
While Virendra Shewag has done well for himself, he has a long way to go. And if the sports is the criteria then why forget Master Chandgi Ram and the long list of such sportsmen.
Click to expand...
 
Dear all.
First of all heading should be some great jats.
We cover all these name here & before under other heading.
The name of Army heroes- Col Hoshiar singh pvc
All victoria cross holders- mahavir chakra - virchakra & others are in history sec.
BRIG. HOSHIAR SINGH RATHI is MAHAVIR CHAKARA- I met him in RAJ -RIF CENTRE DELHI CANTT.
The names of all vc- pvc- award holders & Martyrs are in my book from France to Kargil.
Frist of all you the jat community- respect our heroes & leaders.
No-2- put the wrong historical fact right by writing true history of JATS & our heroes.
Jaihind
 
Brigadier Hoshiar Singh

Brigadier Hoshiar Singh Rathi died in the 1962 Indo-China war. He commanded the Sela Brigade near Bomdilla. In the action on the crucial Sela pass, in which Brig Hoshiar died fighting so bravely, Subedar Joginder Singh got the PVC.

Brigadier Sahib was NOT awarded the MVC. He may yet be awarded and get his due recognition if the enquiry report is made public including the fact that Brigadier Hoshair Singh was asked to withdraw fom his position despite his vigorous protests. To save the incapable Generals, he was made a scapegoat.

Please all of you check your facts.

Rajiv Lather

Dharmpal Singh Dudee (Feb 25, 2003 06:55 a.m.):
Dear all.
First of all heading should be some great jats.
We cover all these name here & before under other heading.
The name of Army heroes- Col Hoshiar singh pvc
All victoria cross holders- mahavir chakra - virchakra & others are in history sec.
BRIG. HOSHIAR SINGH RATHI is MAHAVIR CHAKARA- I met him in RAJ -RIF CENTRE DELHI CANTT.
The names of all vc- pvc- award holders & Martyrs are in my book from France to Kargil.
Frist of all you the jat community- respect our heroes & leaders.
No-2- put the wrong historical fact right by writing true history of JATS & our heroes.
Jaihind
Click to expand...
 
chacha dudeeji namaskar,

as rajiv bhai rightly said it is our misfortune and the gravest of unjustice done to the soldier class as such and specificallyto brig.hoshiar singh and his family that the due honour was denied to him for some reasons which are very common to indian army.we all wish that brig. hoshiar singh should have got what was his due and that was pvc and not mvc,and sad part is that he got nothing .thas the realty.
i am saying this bec as secretary zila saink board jhajjar all such records were in my office andthis hard fact of life was open to all.
now the pvc, we have got only one that was late col hoshiar singh of 3 gernadiers. no other jat.............so all other names should be taken with due respect but at right place.

now there are a few senior officers (of course retired )from the community who told me that had gen k k singh would not have been in know of things another injustice would have been there as this community with largest number of martyrs and the best fighters but wthout a single pvc.

chhachji as u are a family with such a great contribution towards the countrywith generations of sacrifice, it is not required to have any lengthy talk on this topic .
 
Rajender singh
You are right- we should not discuss this topic in this way.
Who is great?
Topic should be some great jats-Jatnis.
I closed the topic long time back. But it is still here.
It is hurting martyrs & Shaheeds Families.
It may end up like other thread.
I know about PVC only major Hoshiar singh got it/ we discussed in history topic- that also in my book- other jats are Victoria cross holder or mahavir chakra- vir chakra.
Some army site still on record about BRIG - HOSHIAR SINGH MVC.
If your record in sanik board say no- I respect that too- this is final word from me on this topic.
But now is the time to fight for justice for heroes like Brig. Hoshiar singh & other martyrs.
Fight for justice- instead fighting with each other.
Fight the route cause of the problems
Jaihind cheers
 
chacha dudeeji namaskar,

kindly do not take it as a issue being blown out perportion. i realy admire and respect u for the great love and affection u got for the community and particularly the fauji's. it shall only be a fools venture to belittle your contribution towardsthis noble cause.and be rest assured what ever the shortcommings in us, no body can afford to cross this limits even considering all the human faults.
the issue of jats contribution has been brought on the site by u and its u who has been keeping it alive even when pple did not respond for weeks. so i being very much part of the system feel that we all should do justice to the issue . be assured, we all are there to respect the sentiments of all faujis which are realy close to u r heart. and keeping all this in mind i feel we should put in our best afforts in this direction

regards
rajender
 
Ashok Kumar Dabas (Jan 13, 2003 06:38 p.m.):
Dudee Ji,

Koi bhee kisi JAT ko baniya kese bana sakta hei.

BHAI MAFI CHAHUNGA..THARE ROLE MAI KUDNE KI..PR JAT KI ATHANNI AALI BAT SAI KHUDKE BINA RAHEGI NHI....

BHAI..CHHAJU RAM JI KO US ZAMANE ME KING OF JOOTS MANA JATA THA.. BUSSINESS ME UNKA NAM KAFI BDA THA.. JAT COUM MAI SABSE DHANI HONE KE KARAN ..JAT BHAI HI UNHE SETH KAH KR PUKARTE THE..SETH KYUKI PAISE WALE KO KHA JATA HAI..ES LIYE JAT PROUD FEEL KARTE HAI...KI MHARA BHI AADMI SETH RYA SAI... JAB JAT BANIYE KA KAM MAI NAM KAMAWAIGA TO USNAI BANIYE KE TITLE SE PUKARNE MAI KE GALTI SAI...KOI DEVILAL TAI SETH THODE HI KAHWAI SAI..
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Dear All,
Brigadier Hoshiyar Singh Rathi, commanded my own battalion twice. He was awarded MVC in 1962 war postumously.
 
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