Why Jats do not marry in same Gotr

[sampuran]

It is a well established principle amongst the Jats that marriage within the same Gotr is PROHIBITED. (How old is this, I dont know. If somebody does, please educate.) In fact, none of the Gotras of the boy and girl, their mothers, and both sides' grand mothers should be common. Many ignorant people have raised questions about the rationale behind this rule.
Some months back a case had made media headlines and went upto the P&B High Court wherein a voilation in of the Haryana villages had created lot of furor.

The world is just realising the scientif reason, behind what our communities have been practising for millenia. This is the report in www.timesofindia.com
MUMBAI: A research being carried out in Mumbai on deaf and mute children and their parents has revealed a startling coincidence - marrying within the family could lead to your kid ending up being deaf and/or dumb.

The Bandra-based Ali Yavar Jung National Institute for the Hearing Handicapped (AYJNIHH), and Bangalore-based Jawaharlal Nehru Centre for Advanced Scientific Research (JNCASR) have been working on the reasons behind genetic deafness, or deafness inherited down generations.

Over the past two years, they studied 165 couples across the city with deaf and/or mute offspring.

Of these, among 70 couples neither member is deaf or mute. But a vast majority had married within the family. The researchers have sent blood samples of all the family members to JNCASR to check for the 'connexin 26 mutation', which causes genetic deafness, in the blood. The mutation transmits deafness down generations.

The news repot uses the word 'startling coincidence'.... For them it is indeed startling !

 

[poonam]

It is Scientific

Yes, it is Scientific.

It is true that marriages amongst Jats within the same Gotr is prohibited. I’ve no clue how, when and why it started but scientifically, for sure, it is highly advantageous.

Sampuran, the report you have mentioned about is no surprise. Its all about genes and genetics. Its been well proven that marrying within a family raises the risk of a significant birth defect in the child. This is because the two parents share a common ancestor and some of their genetic material. If they carry the same inherited mutated/altered gene, then their offspring are more likely to have a genetic disorder. A person carrying the gene for the disease (carrier of the disease) is not necessarily going to be sick. However, he can pass on this sickness to his children if he marries a woman who is a carrier of the same gene which becomes more likely if he marries within the related family.

For the ones with different background let me explain.

Each person has approximately 30,000 genes. Each gene has two copies - one copy inherited from each parent. Every human being has at least a few mutated / altered genes. But usually these mutated genes don't cause problems because only one copy of the gene is affected. Normally, two parents will have enough variation in their genes to ensure that their child has at least one normal copy of each gene. In many cases, to develop a genetic disorder (the autosomal recessive diseases: Cystic fibrosis, PKU, Cystinosis) two altered or abnormal copies of the gene are needed. People with a common ancestor, however, may each carry the same copy of an altered gene, this can make genetic disorders more likely to occur in their future offspring. Other children of the same parents (carrier parents) may also have the sickness and there is a chance that one in four offspring will be affected (Mendel’s Law of Inheritance).

So it’s a brilliant practice amongst jats and should be followed to avoid any kind of genetic disorders/birth defects in our future generations.

 

[raj_rathee]

Yes, it has been a well known fact for quite a while. Even amongst the
villagers.

Even among the western culture offspring from the union
of siblings and cousins was 'mocked' as having the potential of going
mad...or something along those lines.

What I am curious to know is how long have these practices been going
on in the Jat community and how they were able to make these
deductions way before any scientific knowledge about genes and so on.

Or was this practice adopted for other reasons but now gets justified
for scientific reasons after the fact ?

 

[priti]

its a good practice no doubt but it might depend on how big the community is. With jats' emphasis of marrying within the community, it might just go astray scientifically if the numbers are too small. So for all those who keep debating whether inter-caste marriages are good or not, now you have a scientific point in favor of it...


or maybe the arguments can be twisted the other way and it could be said that byt this practice jats preserve their good genes and at the same time avoid the genetic defects in their offsprings!

 

[devdahiya]

Jats To Hein Hi Wonderful

Look at any old practice followed by our ancestors.......It was wonderful,time tested and Pure. I am proud of our people. May be we are failing in this murky world of pressures. Great Kaum to have born in.

 

[kataria]

I think you are forgetting something very important. From the sociological viewpoint; marriages were forbidden in the same got in order to create alliances.
For example; kings used marriage to secure peace treaties with other kings.

For the same reason, marriage was forbidden among the same got in order to form larger strategic alliances.
1: Marriage is not allowed among two people of the same village.

The reason is that it prevents the village from becoming isolated. By forming alliances and relationships among neighbouring villages, you become strong. It gives you protection against invaders. An invader who wants to attack a village would have had to attack all the villages.

2: Marriages forbidden in same or close gots.
Same reason was above. Marriages in other gots allowed for greater strategic alliances and safety.

3: Remember Muslim Jats in Pakistan have cousin marriages...

 

[vinodks]

Very informative... I was thinking of breaking the custom, now I am scared

But why Jats don't marry inter-caste... by the genetic logic that would be even better.

-Vinod

Yes, it is Scientific.

It is true that marriages amongst Jats within the same Gotr is prohibited. I’ve no clue how, when and why it started but scientifically, for sure, it is highly advantageous.

Sampuran, the report you have mentioned about is no surprise. Its all about genes and genetics. Its been well proven that marrying within a family raises the risk of a significant birth defect in the child. This is because the two parents share a common ancestor and some of their genetic material. If they carry the same inherited mutated/altered gene, then their offspring are more likely to have a genetic disorder. A person carrying the gene for the disease (carrier of the disease) is not necessarily going to be sick. However, he can pass on this sickness to his children if he marries a woman who is a carrier of the same gene which becomes more likely if he marries within the related family.

For the ones with different background let me explain.

Each person has approximately 30,000 genes. Each gene has two copies - one copy inherited from each parent. Every human being has at least a few mutated / altered genes. But usually these mutated genes don't cause problems because only one copy of the gene is affected. Normally, two parents will have enough variation in their genes to ensure that their child has at least one normal copy of each gene. In many cases, to develop a genetic disorder (the autosomal recessive diseases: Cystic fibrosis, PKU, Cystinosis) two altered or abnormal copies of the gene are needed. People with a common ancestor, however, may each carry the same copy of an altered gene, this can make genetic disorders more likely to occur in their future offspring. Other children of the same parents (carrier parents) may also have the sickness and there is a chance that one in four offspring will be affected (Mendel’s Law of Inheritance).

So it’s a brilliant practice amongst jats and should be followed to avoid any kind of genetic disorders/birth defects in our future generations.

 

[rkumar]

...
But why Jats don't marry inter-caste... by the genetic logic that would be even better.

-Vinod

Very interesting question. May be Jats think that their gene pool is one of the best.

Now coming back to the question of genes. I don't think Jats started this custom of not marrying inside one's gotra on the basis of their knowledge about genes. This custom started long before gene theories appeared on the scene. Evolution of sexual habit is very different among different communities/ cultures. If we look at the evolution of this trait starting from our animal behaviour, we Indians seems to have evolved much more than the Europeans. By enlarge we Indians are very shy in our sexual approach and want complete privacy, whereas this is not the case with western cultures. May be because of outr this trait that we stopped marrying with some one very closely linked and which later on turned out to me right from medical point of view. May be our instincts have medical reasons after all..

RK^2

 

[sampuran]

Why Jats

Pritiji

its a good practice no doubt but it might depend on how big the community is. With jats' emphasis of marrying within the community, it might just go astray scientifically if the numbers are too small. So for all those who keep debating whether inter-caste marriages are good or not, now you have a scientific point in favor of it...


or maybe the arguments can be twisted the other way and it could be said that byt this practice jats preserve their good genes and at the same time avoid the genetic defects in their offsprings!

How is Gotr connected to caste ? I think Gotr relates to the person or persons who started it, whereas caste is corrupted 'varna' system.
For marrying outside the Gotr there is scientific reason and for marrying within the caste they are sociological.

Who started the system, we dont know. But its also wrong to say Jats may not have. Then why do they follow it so religiously, whereas most other communities dont ?
What we accomplish today with sophisticated scientific instruments, ancestors did with simple common sense. They didnt have big cranes, but Egyptians hauled rocks each weighing 2-6 tons to construct the pyramids. Also think of the exact shape, orientation and levelling. Most countries cant do the same today.

 

[vins]

I think you are forgetting something very important. From the sociological viewpoint; marriages were forbidden in the same got in order to create alliances.
For example; kings used marriage to secure peace treaties with other kings.

For the same reason, marriage was forbidden among the same got in order to form larger strategic alliances.
1: Marriage is not allowed among two people of the same village.

The reason is that it prevents the village from becoming isolated. By forming alliances and relationships among neighbouring villages, you become strong. It gives you protection against invaders. An invader who wants to attack a village would have had to attack all the villages.

2: Marriages forbidden in same or close gots.
Same reason was above. Marriages in other gots allowed for greater strategic alliances and safety.

3: Remember Muslim Jats in Pakistan have cousin marriages...

I am not a scholar in Jat history but I ca guess this would be the reason for not marrying within the gotras
Marriage was considered as more of a social custome trying to capture as much alliance as possible ..as rightly said above moreover keeping identity and integrity of the people. It was therefore quite obvious jats marrying within the communities but outside the gotra ..as support of a person to other of same gotra was obvious but to have support from different gotras they needed reason for this .. which was given by the marriage.

To add to a point about marriages in Muslim jats among the family ... the reason could be quite obvious .. when people initially converted to islam they were very few people and as every one would like to marry while keeping their identity they married within family .. and as time passed it became their custom ..

(this is how actions become customs )

Most of u would not know but its true tht Parsis sometimes get siblings married .. offcourse the obvious reason seems to be is to preserve their identity..

People at earlier time were very keen in keeping their identity so are many now .. quite few who donot believe in this go for intercast marriage ...

I think I have given quite enough information which I thing would be true ..

Vins

 

[ajeetsingh]

+same Gotra

i donot know why we r talking of marrying in the same gotra.we r not punjabis.
ajeet

 

[vins]

ajeet

i donot know why we r talking of marrying in the same gotra.we r not punjabis.
ajeet

this isnt only for punjabis its true for every hindu jat on earth

 

[vinodks]

Not marrying in same gotra is not common only among Jats.... other groups also follow that... gotra being started by same persons is good argument,... all people with same gotra was bros and sis.. e.g. Dada Sanga started Sangwan, south indian surnames are based on rishi's names.... etc..

Interestingly, ancient Egyptian kings used to marry real brother and sister... Cleopatra's husband was her real brother... but she didn't like him... it was to keep royal blood pure..

-Vinod

 

[poonam]

As pointed by many others here I would too be very keen to know how this practice of not marrying within the same gotr started among jats. Since its very obvious that this existed way before we knew of its scientific relevance. So what was the idea behind that, if someone knows for sure or can speculate logically (other than what stated here already), would be intriguing indeed to know.

How many of us know that Jews (and I think Jats too) are the most conserved gene pools. Though I’m not too erudite in the field but I remember reading sometime back that the Bible strictly prohibits marriage among consanguineous (blood relations or ‘near kin’) relative. No wonder, Jews try not to mingle with other races. It is so disturbing to them to see Jews marrying non Jews that they have started calling it "the silent holocaust." What I mean to imply is they have not allowed any penetration from outside in their gene pool and we do see them excelling so easily in academics, the media, medicine ( dominated primarily by Jews), law and other prestigious professions. Though I don’t remember correctly but its been talked about somewhere that the average IQ of Jews is astonishing 117, way higher than a white or a black..

OK enough rambling about Jews. Coming back to Jats.. Even among Jats the practice of marrying to non Jats is not that common, leave aside the same gotr. So we narrow down to two issues: not marrying within the same gotr and not marrying to non jats. While not marrying in the same family tree offers protection against some birth defects, not marrying to non jats offers the conservation of our gene pool of which any Jat would be proud of, since we are known for long as a warrior race. But, before I get stoned by the preachers of inter-caste marriages, let me confront that personally I’m not against it but it sounded a good idea to brainstorm a bit here. On the other hand, I feel allowing external gene pool addition/variation might give us, eventually, a better protection from these genetic defects since the family trees keep growing but we do have a fixed number of ancestors to start with. Even better, go for a genetic test/ DNA blueprint before marrying... Geeeeeeeeezzzzzz its complicated..

 

[devdahiya]

True

As pointed by many others here I would too be very keen to know how this practice of not marrying within the same gotr started among jats. Since its very obvious that this existed way before we knew of its scientific relevance. So what was the idea behind that, if someone knows for sure or can speculate logically (other than what stated here already), would be intriguing indeed to know.

How many of us know that Jews (and I think Jats too) are the most conserved gene pools. Though I’m not too erudite in the field but I remember reading sometime back that the Bible strictly prohibits marriage among consanguineous (blood relations or ‘near kin’) relative. No wonder, Jews try not to mingle with other races. It is so disturbing to them to see Jews marrying non Jews that they have started calling it "the silent holocaust." What I mean to imply is they have not allowed any penetration from outside in their gene pool and we do see them excelling so easily in academics, the media, medicine ( dominated primarily by Jews), law and other prestigious professions. Though I don’t remember correctly but its been talked about somewhere that the average IQ of Jews is astonishing 117, way higher than a white or a black..

OK enough rambling about Jews. Coming back to Jats.. Even among Jats the practice of marrying to non Jats is not that common, leave aside the same gotr. So we narrow down to two issues: not marrying within the same gotr and not marrying to non jats. While not marrying in the same family tree offers protection against some birth defects, not marrying to non jats offers the conservation of our gene pool of which any Jat would be proud of, since we are known for long as a warrior race. But, before I get stoned by the preachers of inter-caste marriages, let me confront that personally I’m not against it but it sounded a good idea to brainstorm a bit here. On the other hand, I feel allowing external gene pool addition/variation might give us, eventually, a better protection from these genetic defects since the family trees keep growing but we do have a fixed number of ancestors to start with. Even better, go for a genetic test/ DNA blueprint before marrying... Geeeeeeeeezzzzzz its complicated..

Bang on target bebe. I second your opinion.

 

[spdeshwal]

Parsis(zoroastrians), who mostly live in Mumbai and coastal Gujrat is also a very cosely guarded community. They don,t allow marriages out side their community. Non parsis can't convert to zoroastrianism even after marriage with a parsi.

Unlike jats they marry in close relations. This could be the reason that parsis are physically not that strong.

It is not only the punjabis but most of the south indian Hindus marry in their close relations. Like marriage between maternal cousins is very common. Even the maternal uncle can marry his neice. In fact untill recently this type of marriage were given preference over marriages with an outsider.

 

[ajaysinghbamel]

One thing is very clear that some of the older people new this from medical point of view but as most of people were ignorant and to make them follow this and to have strong breed the gotra system was introduced. This has been followed by other caste also but it has not susained for longer but in Jats it has survived till today and that's why we are strongest till date. What is required from all of us is to try to take it farther from here so that future of our coming generations is more brighter and healthy.

As pointed by many others here I would too be very keen to know how this practice of not marrying within the same gotr started among jats. Since its very obvious that this existed way before we knew of its scientific relevance. So what was the idea behind that, if someone knows for sure or can speculate logically (other than what stated here already), would be intriguing indeed to know.

How many of us know that Jews (and I think Jats too) are the most conserved gene pools. Though I’m not too erudite in the field but I remember reading sometime back that the Bible strictly prohibits marriage among consanguineous (blood relations or ‘near kin’) relative. No wonder, Jews try not to mingle with other races. It is so disturbing to them to see Jews marrying non Jews that they have started calling it "the silent holocaust." What I mean to imply is they have not allowed any penetration from outside in their gene pool and we do see them excelling so easily in academics, the media, medicine ( dominated primarily by Jews), law and other prestigious professions. Though I don’t remember correctly but its been talked about somewhere that the average IQ of Jews is astonishing 117, way higher than a white or a black..

OK enough rambling about Jews. Coming back to Jats.. Even among Jats the practice of marrying to non Jats is not that common, leave aside the same gotr. So we narrow down to two issues: not marrying within the same gotr and not marrying to non jats. While not marrying in the same family tree offers protection against some birth defects, not marrying to non jats offers the conservation of our gene pool of which any Jat would be proud of, since we are known for long as a warrior race. But, before I get stoned by the preachers of inter-caste marriages, let me confront that personally I’m not against it but it sounded a good idea to brainstorm a bit here. On the other hand, I feel allowing external gene pool addition/variation might give us, eventually, a better protection from these genetic defects since the family trees keep growing but we do have a fixed number of ancestors to start with. Even better, go for a genetic test/ DNA blueprint before marrying... Geeeeeeeeezzzzzz its complicated..

 

[rkumar]

COLOR="DarkRed"]As pointed by many others here I would too be very keen to know how this practice of not marrying within the same gotr started among jats. Since its very obvious that this existed way before we knew of its scientific relevance. So what was the idea behind that, if someone knows for sure or can speculate logically (other than what stated here already), would be intriguing indeed to know.

Possible Answer: GOTRA
Gotra is one of the many considerations that exist during match making in the traditional manner. Janmakundalis (horoscopes) of the prospective bride and groom are compared to see if a match could he made. Gotras have to be different while Matchmaking for a Marriage

While in matching Janmakundalis the consideration is for the common and symmetrical features, but surprisingly while comparing Gotras the requirement is that the bride and groom should belong to different Gotras. If their Gotras are identical a match cannot be made. Today most of us may not be aware as to what Gotra is. Its meaning is lost and it is doubtful whether even the astrologers who compare horoscopes can satisfy an inquisitive student as to the origin and meaning of Gotra and the reason why identical Gotras preclude a match in a traditional Hindu marriage.

Gotra Originated as the Common Cowpen or Cow Shed During the Tribal Aryan Past

The origin of this concept of Gotra also seems to lie in a tribal ethos and is linked to the system of common ownership of property. The word Gotra literally means cowpen or cowshed and is derived from "Go" meaning cow.

With the domestication of animals, cattle became an important source of meats and milk. With the rearing of cattle, hunting as the principal source of subsistence lost its importance and the lifestyle became less nomadic as compared to the earlier days when hunting was the main activity of sustenance. With the coming of a pastoral way of life it was possible to have individual ownership of the means of subsistence which was impossible during the days of hunting.

But the older practice of holding property in common could not die out abruptly. Even in a pastoral society the principle means of subsistence - cattle - continued to be held as common property. The members of a tribe had one object for solidarity and this was the cattle they held in common. While in a society of hunters, the prisoners of wars and other fellow travellers could either be sacrificed or absorbed into the tribe so as to increase the strength of the hunt party; the pastoral society ruled out such absorption of new members who would only be additional mouths to feed. The tribe henceforth became an endogamous clan which kept outsiders out and insiders in.

Sa-Gotra (Marriage Within a Gotra) was the Norm Originally

But the endogamous clan still retained some features of the tribal way of life like common ownership of property (and promiscuity). This new solidarity that emerged from the common ownership of cattle, acquired the name Gotra from its very nature. But then the Gotra which was the foundation of life and livelihood also became its limit.Sexual pairing was limited to member of a Gotra. This form of pairing was termed Sagotra. Our Present day prohibition on marriage within one Gotra is a later development.

The shift from pairing within a Gotra to prohibition on marriage between two members having the same Gotra must be a result of a variety of factors.

As long as promiscuity survived, society must have been matriarchal as the mother would have been the only identifiable parent. But with the rising productivity and gradual emergence of individual holding of property, this way of life had to make way for another.

The title to the increasing hoard of wealth was held by male members of a clan due to their being the physically dominant sex. It was the efforts of the more powerful males that won for the clan the property of other clans and also enabled defense of their own property from being grabbed by other clans. With the gradual increase in productive power, the acquisition of slaves etc. The title to property also changed from being collective to individual. This change in the title to property from communal to individual must have been the result of evolution over hundreds of years. But why did this change have to prohibit the established practice of marriage within a Gotra?

The answer perhaps lies in Human Social Evolution. Primitive promiscuity as it exists among the lower animals, also existed among humans to begin with. Later on came monogamous marriage. Simultaneously, with the rise in the productive power of human beings there came about accumulation of property initially in the form of cattle. The common ownership of this object of wealth made essential marriage only within members of the clan that held the wealth so as to prevents outsiders from claiming a share of it. But while this solidarity was based on the common ownership of wealth there still existed a commonality in the title to that wealth. And this commonality was first disturbed with the removal of promiscuous matriarchy which did take place with the passage of time. In matriarchy and its earlier form, promiscuity, there existed no bar on members of a clan (Gotra) whether they be the progeny of the same mother, the father not being an identifiable parent.

But with the eclipse of matriarchy and the coming of individual ownership and monogamy, the father became an identifiable parent and strains of patriarchy appeared. The ethic of matriarchal society that allowed marriage between the progeny of one mother or between paternal cousins now came to be frowned upon as these progeny were now the sons and daughters of one (identifiable) father or of one grandfather. This encouraged marriage outside the clan (Gotra). The prohibition on marriage outside a Gotra was made irrelevant by individual ownership of property and the custom of inheritance whereby property passed from father to son. As the title to property was individual and private and the transfer of this title to property was also fixed, there was no reason why a female member of one Gotra should not be tied in wedlock with a male member of another Gotra. Thus while formerly marriage within a Gotra was the rule, later marriage outside a Gotra became one.

Today it is difficult to imagine that marriage within one Gotra between members who were the progeny of one mother or were immediate maternal cousins by virtue of having the same grandmother could have once been a solemn custom. But the later rigid injunction against marriage within a Gotra itself implies that once the practice of marrying within one Gotra must have existed.

Thus as Sa-gotra marriage was once the norm, there arose the need for its prohibition. Something that has never existed need not be prohibited. Hence the existence of prohibition on Sagotra marriage itself is one evidence of its existence sometime in the past. With the disappearance of a pastoral society and also the clan ownership of cattle (Gotra as 'cowpen'), the emergence of monogamy and ownership of property and later urban civilization and with it a much wider social unit of human existence, the Gotra as an institution and a consideration for matchmaking vanished and marriage outside one's Gotra became the rule. But even afterwards the custom of prohibition on marriage within a Gotra continued. Today this prohibition is still observed as a matter of ritual and custom when even the original connotation of the term Gotra is generally not known.

Source:http://hindutva.org/practices2.html

How many of us know that Jews (and I think Jats too) are the most conserved gene pools. Though I’m not too erudite in the field but I remember reading sometime back that the Bible strictly prohibits marriage among consanguineous (blood relations or ‘near kin’) relative. No wonder, Jews try not to mingle with other races. It is so disturbing to them to see Jews marrying non Jews that they have started calling it "the silent holocaust." What I mean to imply is they have not allowed any penetration from outside in their gene pool and we do see them excelling so easily in academics, the media, medicine ( dominated primarily by Jews), law and other prestigious professions. Though I don’t remember correctly but its been talked about somewhere that the average IQ of Jews is astonishing 117, way higher than a white or a black..

Possible Answer: One needs strength for survival. Strength is a sum of physical strength and intellectual strength. One supplements for the other. Individual strength can be further increased by making groups. When one is surrounded by hostile groups, one needs more and more of intellectual strength to survive. May be this is responsible for higher intelligence among Jews and Parsies or even a single Bania family living in village dominated by other communities. Weak animals live in hoards usually or have other intelligent methods of survival. Lions roam freely....and don't need much brain...LOL

[/COLOR][/QUOTE]

RK^2

 

[sampuran]

Why Jats

I think its time to stop using the terms like ' Aryan Tribes' and cowpen.
These words were coined by the westrners ignorant of Indian history. If the correct meaning has o be found, then we have to refer to original Samskrit texts or go by what is common understanding. Using imported meanings and trying to understand our cultural practices is fraught with wrong inferences.

In one of the earlier posts I had given example about Egyptian civillisation. The intent was to dispel the notion that science started with rennaissance in Christian Europe. All ancient civillisation flourished because of scientific temper. They could not have designed and constructed mega wonders without science.
So to say that marriage outside the Gotra did not start because of scientific reasons but sociological, is incorrect. Lets give it to the ancestors, their brain size was same as ours !

Another example - Who was the first to postulate that the earth is round ? Galelio, isnt it ! False.
In one of the vedas it is clearly argued - Since the mast of a boat approaching from faraway is visible first, then the rest of the body. It implies that the earth is round.

Inference is clear, you dont always need sophisticated instruments to make scientific discoveries!

 

[dabas]

Hi Everybody,
Today only I was reading in Delhi newspaper that the Government of United Kingdom is making a rule not to marry first cousins (particularlarly Muslims) , because in UK, 30 % of children are physically and mentally challanged whose parents have married their first cousins.
This is because some molecules in the DNA structure are common ( Pl. excuse me I am not a biology or Medico Guy)
Since we people don't marry in close relations because of that we are smart, physically and mentally very strong. NO need to give examples. You will hardly find any Jat Physically and mentally Challenged
My Love and Regards to All