Do we Jat really need Reservation ?

[snandal1]

This fragmentation of landholdings is a universal problem and cannot be used as an excuse for demanding reservations.

In all developing societies, there is a movement away from agriculture to teh city.

Agriculture based jobs are lost.

Those who do not adapt to the new environment 'die'.i.e decline.

Trying to hang on the old way of life will lead to a decline.Gone are the days
of 'Chaudrat'

The way forward is education and access to the new opportunities.

The question is will reservation help or hinder?.

Good , cogent arguments are being put forward from both sides.


Ravi Chaudhary

plz forward ur arguments to the agricultural communities who have already got reservation on the basis of agriculture, particulartly the meena nd gujar jats, nd they will give u the befitting reply. plz send them an enclose their views, particularly the meena nd gujjar community, nd then write ur history, particularly the modern one.

 

[snandal1]

इसलिए आज यह अधिकार का मांग पत्र जाट समाज की तरफ से ( आज़ादी मिलने के बाद जाटों की यह पहली मांग हैं ) प्रार्थना स्वरुप आपको भेज रहें हैं की आप बगैर किसी हिचक , लाग लपेट व बिना देरी के गुरनाम सिंह आयोग की रिपोर्ट लागू करने का अध्यादेश जारी करवाए तथा केंद्र सरकार को सिफारिस करे की मंडल कमीशन की रिपोर्ट में हरियाणा की पिछड़ी जाति सूचि में गुटका व चिल्लन जाट की जगह केवल जाट कर दिया जाये , क्योंकि इस प्रकार की हरियाणा में कोई जातियां नहीं हैं | इस शुभ कार्य को करने के लिए यही शुभ समय हैं | हमे पूर्ण आशा हैं की कांग्रेस गांधीगिरी में विश्वास रखती हैं तो क्या जरुरी हैं की हरियाणा का ग्रामीण जाट सड़क पर उतर कर तोड़ - फोड़ करे और खून खराबा हो | जाट जाति स्वभाव से शंतिप्रिये हैं , जब तक उसे कोई हिंसक बनने के लिए मजबूर न करे | अभी गेंद हरियाणा सरकार तथा केंद्र की सरकार के पाले में हैं |
हम साथ - साथ यह भी कहना चाहते हैं की हमारी मांग में हिन्दू जाट , सिक्ख जाट , मूला जाट , तथा बिश्नोई जाट सम्मलित हैं | यह बात गुरनाम सिंह आयोग की रिपोर्ट भी कहती हैं की जाट समुदाय को धर्म के नाम से नहीं बांटा जा सकता हैं | हम आपको बहुत - बहुत धन्यवाद देते हैं की आपने जाट समाज की पुकार को पढ़ा और सुना |
आदर सहित |
दिनांक : 15.08.2008
आपके अपने
धर्मपाल छोत ------------------------------------------------ हवा सिंह सांगवान पूर्व कमान्डैटं
आध्यक्ष हरियाणा प्रदेश ------------------------------------------अध्यक्ष - जाट आरक्षण संघर्ष समिति
आखिल भारतीय जाट महासभा ------------------------------------अखिल भारतीय जाट महासभा
एवं जाट समाज हरियाणा <input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden"><input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden"><input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">

bhai sangwan ji
kab tak discuss karoge??
5000 saal, 10000 saal??
kab tak sochoge??
tumse neechi jaati ke logo ne vidroh karke ye sab haansil bhi kar liya hai
tumhare bhaiyo ne rajasthan me ye sab haansil bhi kar liya hai
aur phir sochoge to sochte hi reh jaoge
there's no 1 on this jatland.com who knows history of jats more than ne body else does
koi bheek to nahi maang rahe bhai??
sirf adhikar maang rahe hai.

 

[snandal1]

Will try to answer Anjoo's questions too later on.
Please try to answer each and every question/answer.

Wo balakan ki dhalan ek ek parshan hal karte chalange. Theek sai

jeetu bhai
in shehri jaato ko yadi reservation nahi chahiye to na le lekin, inke jo bhai bandhu gaon me baste hai, jo bechare chaprasi banane ko taiyaar hai, aur chaprasi ban ke reserve category ko pani pilate hai, unka kya kasoor hai???

 

[snandal1]

Will try to answer Anjoo's questions too later on.
Please try to answer each and every question/answer.

Wo balakan ki dhalan ek ek parshan hal karte chalange. Theek sai

jat never forced his views on others
it were rather the later ppl who forced their views on the jats. everybody came unruled in the capital of jats in delhi, but if sumbody feels that jat wil remain the biggest fools for th last five thousand years, then he is sadly mistaken, wherefrom the history of jats starts from surajmal, as if jats were never born nd brought up b4 surajmal nd never wil they do after him. if ne body wants the jat IQ to be tested then he must visit this thread where all greatest emerinies of jats including the gr8test historians are still discussing nd discussing nd discussing nd continue to discuss for 5 to 10 thousand years nd perhaps lakhs of years. ye jat bakri ki teen taang kahega hi kahega. particulary the most educated one

 

[snandal1]

jis kisi ko buddhimaan jat dikhana hai, us mahan aatma ko is thread pe, in padhe likhe jat mahan aatmao ki shakle dikha dena. yadi in padhe likhe jat mahatmao ko reservation nahi chaiye, naahi inke rishtedaro ko chahiye to ye ek affidevit submit kare is jatland pe, that such nd such is my relative living in my village nd the village of my rishtedar, vo aur uske santaan aur rishtedar kabhi bhi reservation ke favour me na to bolenge aur nahi apne kisi bhi door door tak ke jat bhai bandhuo ko reservation dilwayenge.......................................vo unhe hamesha fight karne ke liye bolenge aur jo unke bhai bandhu naukri chakri ke chakkar me australia me kut pit rah hai unko bhi australian PM se fight karne ko bolenge.
aur usse pehle un jat/indian k behalf pe khud senapati ban k australian PM se fight karenge.

 

[amiteshv]

Kapil Bhai,

The thread Rakesh was referring to was perhaps the below one-
http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20340&highlight=reservation

If you wish to know what counters we have provided and whether they are enough to satify you or not then you need to go through the thread and I am sorry to say that I will not be able to pick the things up from that to you. Its discussed at length and I am not finding anything new in anti arguments. You can say this politely or aggresively that we are conservative, opportunistic, illogical etc etc that is upto you but I would say I appreciate your view point may be that is different to us.

After all the discussion on that thread I came to the following conclusion:
http://www.jatland.com/forums/showpost.php?p=174853&postcount=235



Like Anil Said it is action time ... you please carry yours action to eradicate the evils in the present system if you wish to (?) on the other hand people like rakesh, dudee ji, Hawa singh ji, narender kharab are doing their part according to their views. IMPORTANT IS ACTION. DO IT AND SHARE IT.

We cant close this topic by saying that it was for discussion only and you shouldnot demand it, thats it. But it should be packaged with vice-versa to remove issues lying in present system.

bhara nahi jo bhavon se, behti jisme radhar nahi, vah hriday nahi, vah patthar hai jisme jat ka pyaar nahi.

 

[amiteshv]

jat was most immediate to recognise with the pros nd cons of any advantages nd disadvantages in the human history, let it be from making captive the animals, due to that reason he was known as pashupati, lord shiva, due to that reason his ancestors placed him in the most fertile land of the world, namely, indus to ganges, nd chambal, he bore all the attacks on his head till today from the ppl who crossed hindu kush mountains, nd even beyond. he used to be a person in mongolia who was born on horseback later when on horseback ame alexander the nandal jats showd him something and that was elephant from the jungles of east india, namely bihar, patliputra, assam etc.
the story goes, that alexander was frightened by punjab jats at jhelum river by porus etc is wrong, it were the nandal jats, the mahapadamnand of that period who showed him that alexander horse was no match for his elephants. and the later moryas, the more jats from sonipath who inhabited this east india nd tamed the biggest animal, the elephant, subjugated the remenats of the greek successors of alexander, like salucus, nd salucus was forced to marry his daughter to the more jats.........................
but alas........................jats till today do not know the latest technology like reservation in india.

 

[raka]

bhai sangwan ji
kab tak discuss karoge??
5000 saal, 10000 saal??
kab tak sochoge??
tumse neechi jaati ke logo ne vidroh karke ye sab haansil bhi kar liya hai
tumhare bhaiyo ne rajasthan me ye sab haansil bhi kar liya hai
aur phir sochoge to sochte hi reh jaoge
there's no 1 on this jatland.com who knows history of jats more than ne body else does
koi bheek to nahi maang rahe bhai??
sirf adhikar maang rahe hai.

eb haam we jat na rahen har kaam soch samajh ke kara sa haam , eb hum padhe likhe ho re sa , jabe to swaal jwaab karan lag rahe sa time to lagega a n . kimme nyu s ak eb koi bhi chhoturam berga aa jya aur hum ne khamkha bahkai ja
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[raka]

Rakesh Sangwan ji
I wrote my earlier post after getting familiar with the Gurnam Singh Commission Report.
Could jats have claimed backwardness on any other basis but economic?
Please correct me if I am wrong. Three main points cited to the commission
by our jat deputation for economic backwardness are 1) Average Land Holding of 2.5 acres, 2) Heavy debt and 3) Minimal representation in higher services like IAS. These points are applicable to whom?
You know the report much better than me, and also have been passionately involved in this movement. I am sure you would be able to advise - How are we going to ensure that the benefits reach the people who are being used to first- build a case in favor, and then- win this battle?
Or is it like- EK baar reservation mil toh jaye, phir sochenge/ dekhenge?
Don't you think Kapil's replies to my questions were apt? I would really appreciate if you could direct me to other posts where these questions have been addressed.
Regards,
Anju

anjoo ji m ek ahir ta bolya ak bhai taamne yo aarakshan le rakhya s , isme kimme dum pani s k . wo bolya ak bhai lyo to jano yo aarakshan to byaah aale laddoo s khao to jano .
eb maine nyu bata dyo ak iske len me k tota s .......

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[raka]

bhai sangwan ji
kab tak discuss karoge??
5000 saal, 10000 saal??
kab tak sochoge??
tumse neechi jaati ke logo ne vidroh karke ye sab haansil bhi kar liya hai
tumhare bhaiyo ne rajasthan me ye sab haansil bhi kar liya hai
aur phir sochoge to sochte hi reh jaoge
there's no 1 on this jatland.com who knows history of jats more than ne body else does
koi bheek to nahi maang rahe bhai??
sirf adhikar maang rahe hai.

नंदल साहब अपने में तो वा बण रही स अक " शिकारी शिकार कर गए अर्र फूदू गोस्से ठाय खड़े स "
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[raka]

jeetu bhai
in shehri jaato ko yadi reservation nahi chahiye to na le lekin, inke jo bhai bandhu gaon me baste hai, jo bechare chaprasi banane ko taiyaar hai, aur chaprasi ban ke reserve category ko pani pilate hai, unka kya kasoor hai???

isme k buraai s mehnat ka kaam s , eb haam mehant ki khaan lage ....
kai khakhi to pure nehru pak re s mehant ki baat kare s , janu to unn to sare jat daakka maar ke khaa s . khet me bina a mehnat k kaam ho s k .....kisi rajneta ke aage haath jod lyo naukri khatir koi aant na s par aakrakshan nahi lenge , isme sharm aawe s ....
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[gaganjat]

If others can get the benefit of reservation there is no harm our brothers and sisters get it too.

Kisi ki izzat me baata nahi lagta.
Its a fake prestige to stay in general category and loose opportunities. We need our share.


Our community has lost so much:

-We have lost our land to governments, real estate developments, baniye/punjabis ....

-Every time there is a war we lose our brothers. We have see plenty of dead bodies of our Jat martyrs coming home.

-We have been feeding this country and losing all the profits to the middlemen.

-We have been working hard and giving our lives to protect the country.

- We have lot of poor in our community too. They have something to eat and live because they grow enough to feed themselves but that doesnt mean they dont need any support from the goverment.

EITHER THERE SHOULD BE RESERVATION FOR JATS OR NO RESERVATION FOR ANY COMMUNITY !

In reality reservation should only be given to poor irrespective of what community he belongs to.

 

[snandal1]

नंदल साहब अपने में तो वा बण रही स अक " शिकारी शिकार कर गए अर्र फूदू गोस्से ठाय खड़े स "
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well said "kaarwann nikal gaya ghubaar dekhte rahe" aur abhi das laakh saal tak, ye jat ghubaar dekhenge aur jab tak suraj chaand rahega ye jat reservation ki ghubar hi dekhega aur ise ye ghubar dikhane ke liye videsho me baithe jaato ki jo ki khudroji roti kha rahe hai aur hame mana kar rahe hai ki tu roji roti mat le liyo bina khuddari ke.

 

[mann123]

Let's go by the poll. People supporting the reservation are much more than against it.

Is there anything left for argument. We don't need the reservation but our brothers living in villages need it strongly.

 

[amiteshv]

well said "kaarwann nikal gaya ghubaar dekhte rahe" aur abhi das laakh saal tak, ye jat ghubaar dekhenge aur jab tak suraj chaand rahega ye jat reservation ki ghubar hi dekhega aur ise ye ghubar dikhane ke liye videsho me baithe jaato ki jo ki khudroji roti kha rahe hai aur hame mana kar rahe hai ki tu roji roti mat le liyo bina khuddari ke.

"phool khile shool se" ,vo ek neeraj ka gana tha, jat ke bare me. par ek kavi girdhar kavi rai bhi tha, jat tha. kavi rai means the king of poets.

 

[amiteshv]

Let's go by the poll. People supporting the reservation are much more than against it.

Is there anything left for argument. We don't need the reservation but our brothers living in villages need it strongly.

yes hanumantaji ,bandar ki aulad ,u have very shrudely quoted here that our brothers in villages do need wheather we need it or not. kuchh karo mere bhai monkey, jat animal farm ji aulad....mausam, whether bita jaye...its just not enough that it simply crosses the majority mark, jab tak ek ek fanne khan jat is fictitious itihas ke darre se bahar nahin aayega mujhe chain nahin lena hai....main apni aankhon se dekh raha hun ki kami means weakness jat me hazaron saal se thi vo aaj bhi hai...

 

[amiteshv]

नंदल साहब अपने में तो वा बण रही स अक " शिकारी शिकार कर गए अर्र फूदू गोस्से ठाय खड़े स "
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rakesh, the sanghwan, yahaan pichle 5-10 hajar saal se in jatiya ka yo hi kuch ryassa ho rakhiya se.......... me ek ek gaon me ek ek vayakti pe jaoonga aur usse bolunga ki jat ko reservation chaiye ke nahi chahiye....... i saw in the t.v today the goth, atila-the-hun.......... the pseudu historian on the site never knew wat these ..........

 

[amiteshv]

rakesh bhai, duniya chand pe pohach gayi he aur ye jat abhi soch hi rahe hai,
they r still keeping their fingers crossed about adding sixteen plus sixteen is eight, the great eight. sola duni aath..........

 

[snandal1]

This fragmentation of landholdings is a universal problem and cannot be used as an excuse for demanding reservations.

In all developing societies, there is a movement away from agriculture to teh city.

Agriculture based jobs are lost.

Those who do not adapt to the new environment 'die'.i.e decline.

Trying to hang on the old way of life will lead to a decline.Gone are the days
of 'Chaudrat'

The way forward is education and access to the new opportunities.

The question is will reservation help or hinder?.

Good , cogent arguments are being put forward from both sides.


Ravi Chaudhary

lets see raviji whether u know it or not? what gurnam singh commission report is? this is the latest history that jat must know....????

 

[snandal1]

I hope by tomorrow it will be on internet, raviji, the gurnaam singh aayog report...its not too difficult...thats the most recent history that jat does not know about himself...but I know that u great people know it ....charity begins from home...history starts from today n then goes behind....no wonder in medieval n ancient history if jat does not know his own history today...that too if he does not know what the history of reservation will pull him back from thousand of years, what he was at that time...