Delhi High Court legalizes homosexuality!

[shailendra]

...Ok look I think there is a basic argument or almost a sort of silly presumption here: Are the one's that disagree with the decision look at Homosexulaity in an overtly -ve light?...
I wager most of us here (both pro and anti-to-the-decision) don't really give a rat's a$$...
I don't think anyone's fav passtime after logging off here is go bash up some homos! (or go join some gay folks in a rally either!)....

The short answer has basically been on the lines that be careful what you ask for or support; cause there are a whole slew of 'legal-rights' issues out there... and you better believe it!

...and the second ridiculous presumption is that it is something that you are born with, (in your hormones)... I say that simply cause the jury is still out there on that and based on where your affections lay; you can defend it by so and so studies and support back-up in either case!

 

[kapdal]

...and the second ridiculous presumption is that it is something that you are born with, (in your hormones)... I say that simply cause the jury is still out there on that and based on where your affections lay; you can defend it by so and so studies and support back-up in either case!

I always thought that this was the scientifically accepted theory (and not a baseless presumption). Not that theories are not contested. What is the alternative theory anyways? Whatever little I know of human body, I find it quite difficult to believe that such a basic human characteristic would not have a genetic cause. Open to hear alternative theories, if they don't enlighten me, I am sure they'd amuse me

 

[shailendra]

I always thought that this was the scientifically accepted theory (and not a baseless presumption). Not that theories are not contested. What is the alternative theory anyways? Whatever little I know of human body, I find it quite difficult to believe that such a basic human characteristic would not have a genetic cause. Open to hear alternative theories, if they don't enlighten me, I am sure they'd amuse me

Whoa... wait a minute!!!
My bad... sorry bud, I didn't realize I was stepping on anyone's toes here.... my bad!!!....

 

[kapdal]

Whoa... wait a minute!!!
My bad... sorry bud, I didn't realize I was stepping on anyone's toes here.... my bad!!!....

Huh ??????

 

[kapdal]

Whoa... wait a minute!!!
My bad... sorry bud, I didn't realize I was stepping on anyone's toes here.... my bad!!!....

Ah...just noticed the bold. Yes, sexual instinct-homo or hetero- is a basic human characteristic. That is what I meant. Infact that is the only thing it could have possibly meant given the context. But guess you are looking for a clever spin....

Tch tch...that was one cheap dig to honest.....Would be hard not to feel disappointed. I have always liked your nuanced posts and cartoons, so this was clearly unexpected. Anyways, one learns a new thing every day

 

[shailendra]

Sorry on the dig...

Ah...just noticed the bold. Yes, sexual instinct-homo or hetero- is a basic human characteristic. That is what I meant. Infact that is the only thing it could have possibly meant given the context. But guess you are looking for a clever spin....

Tch tch...that was one cheap dig to honest.....Would be hard not to feel disappointed. I have always liked your nuanced posts and cartoons, so this was clearly unexpected. Anyways, one learns a new thing every day

...Oh, but then if you want I can always make a cartoon for it too! J/K...

Ok look, it was more to do with that proverbial, "You asked for it...", and maybe was uncalled for...
But frankly must confess I too was a little disappointed with how the real issue, a deviant sexual behavior not accepted by most should be legalized or not... turned so easily into, 'what is an alternative theory on the ‘basic human character’ Homosexuality?'...

[ps. BTW the Alternate theory quite clearly is actually the one that is widely accepted, non-debatable, much proven theory of what and how behave a man and woman (remember?... that whole nature, male/female anatomy, design of bodies of the two sexes, reproductive organs, their roles in relation to each-other etc. etc.!?!)
Ok fine, you were actually asking me about the Homos... but come now, what next? You would want me to provide alternate theories for all sort of 'deviant' sexual behaviors that are most probably 'basic human characteristics’ in someone's or somebody's personal guide-book ; S&M, Swinging/swapping, Pedophilia, Date-rape etc. etc. etc. There are societies out there dedicated to each of these, folks that support them individually, practice it, use it as a new sort of or next level of high; who would be wiser if soon someone says that after months of some chemical swapping they also found 'genes' in people's bodies for each of those behaviors? You would most likely probably run and embrace it too then? (“Well dang, it’s a proven fact now, ain’t it Bubba... it sits pretty fine by me too...!!!”)... Also I guess by most standards we can then start getting these folks some legal status so that they don't feel 'criminalized' in the law of the land?]

On top of that, Gay people have been known to turn straight (and even vice-versa), guess each of them had some major hormonal and gene implants to achieve that feat, right? ...THIN-ice at best, mister....

Alrighty look, truth be told it is getting a mite tiresome ... why don’t we now let some others jump in and add their two cents?

 

[shailendra]

Cartooning along...

...Alright then!
I guess it's about time to add some good ol' levity to the proceedings!!!

So go ahead - Click on the attachment below and enjoy...
[Disclaimer: Any resemblance to any person living or dead is purely coincidental!!! ]

ps. [and yes, also as maybe a peace offering to my dear friend (no, no... not that kinds!) Kapil, with whom I have been agreeing to disagree! ]

 

[kapdal]

But frankly must confess I too was a little disappointed with how the real issue, a deviant sexual behavior not accepted by most should be legalized or not... turned so easily into, 'what is an alternative theory on the ‘basic human character’ Homosexuality?'...

Are you effing kidding me? I am sure you are not that dumb (or are you?)to have not understood what was being said. But you are refusing to accept even the clarification that was not required in the first place. Who said homsexuality is a basic human character? I said one's sexual orientation is- homo or hetero. NOT ONCE BUT TWICE. I also said a million other things which implied that homosexuality is a rare phenomenon. And you are continuing with this crap. Attributing fictitious arguments to me. Seriously think about it- you pull out a statement from nowhere that homosexuality is basic human character and attribute it to me. I clarify that this was never said, still trying to be polite in front of unanticipated and uncalled for hostility. You come back and continue from where you left and then go on about paedophilia, date-rape and what not. I mean- WOW!! I can't believe I actually spent time trying to argue with you rationally, digging links on the court order, constitutional provisions and what not. Amidst all the ridiculous ways to argue I have seen here, this takes the cake- and from the corner I least expected it!!

And yeah, you may think that sexual orientation is actually taught or learnt from somewhere rather than being a natural phenomenon. But most scientists beg to differ. They do believe that attraction to different/same sex is caused by hormones or lack of them. They may all be closet gays with secret societies working towards establishing a gay order in the world. Or maybe as some theories go that those who show such extreme unreasonable opposition actually have some skeletons to hide. Some movie showed it as well- American Beauty?

To be clear, I had no problems had you felt that sexual orientation is not caused by hormones but by something else. As I stated earlier (without any cheap digs), I was actually curious to know what that something else can be.

The floor (or should I say Thaliyan) is open to you now. Go ahead and think of new horrors (maybe I can help- cannibalism?), attribute them to me and then go on to rubbish them. You are welcome to have the proverbial "last word" as I have again proverbially "asked for it". As much as I love to debate, this sort of stuff only makes my blood boil and with no worthy outlet, it is a serious occupational hazard on a trading floor. Over and out.

 

[kapdal]

...Alright then!
I guess it's about time to add some good ol' levity to the proceedings!!!

So go ahead - Click on the attachment below and enjoy...
[Disclaimer: Any resemblance to any person living or dead is purely coincidental!!! ]

ps. [and yes, also as maybe a peace offering to my dear friend (no, no... not that kinds!) Kapil, with whom I have been agreeing to disagree! ]

Nice one, once again- I mean the cartoon obviously.

Posting immediately against the spirit of my "over and out" as I was typing the other post for the last one hour (I was playing poker as well, but yeah, this is how worked up I got) and didn't see this. Didn't want my disgust on your last couple of posts to stand in the way of a token of appreciation I'd have normally given.

 

[dahiyarules]

All I am gonna say is ... I dont give a crap about homos. But I donot hate them (except hijras - they are a nuisance),

LOL @ Hijras

Man, Hijras are still a mystery to me. What are they? Homosexuals? Transsexuals? Transvestites? Etc Etc?

Anyways, even I do not have anything against Homosexuals or their sexuality. I just do not think that it is normal behavior. What they do in their personal lives is their personal business.

I do not want the society to be forced into accepting their lifestyles and choices to be just as normals as heterosexual lifestyles. I do not want the same to be preached as fact in our schools. I do not want my children to be told that its alright to be a homosexual. And, finally I do not want to be persecuted because I believe in what I said above.

 

[jagmohan]

FAQ's

Dear All,

I just thought of listing some FAQ’s on this subject.

Q1. Do Homosexuals exist?
A1. Yes.

Q2. Do human beings feel homosexual tendencies at least once in their lives?
A2. 99% do feel it and the rest 1% are telling lies.

Q3. Is this a disease?
A3. No.

Q4. Are homosexuals looked upon as equal members of the society in the Indian context?
A4. No.

Q5. Will they ever be?
A5. No. Irrespective of what High / Supreme Court rules or says.

Q6. Should homosexuality be legalized so that consenting adults are not troubled by conscious keepers of society?
A6. Yes.

Q7. Would you welcome a known homosexual in your social circle?A7. No.
A8. Yes.

Q9. Will the government go along with what the High Court has ruled?A9. Not likely because the ‘Ulemas’ have objected to it. Had Shankaracharyas objected to it, the government would have by now legalized homosexuality, even if it meant overuling the Supreme Court (Remember Shah Bano Case).

Q10. Where are the maximum Homos created (they are not born as Homos)?
A10. In Madarsas, Ashrams, Gurukuls, Boarding Schools, Buddhist Monastries, Christian Numnneries and in most places run in the name of child welfare by NGO’s funded by the government.

Best regards,

JS Malik

 

[samarkadian]

Q10. Where are the maximum Homos created (they are not born as Homos)?
A10. In Madarsas, Ashrams, Gurukuls, Boarding Schools, Buddhist Monastries, Christian Numnneries and in most places run in the name of child welfare by NGO’s funded by the government.

Best regards,

JS Malik

Apocalypse!!

Can we get some statistics to support the argument?

Then it shall be thrown back at Baba Ramdev who claimed to 'cure' homosexuality. Make sense?

Goes like famous one ,'' Koi Maa ke pet se Mujrim paida nahi hota Judge Sahab. Use Mujrim banati hai aapki Police, aapka samaj, aapka Kanoon.''

 

[singhabhimanyu]

Shailendra.. nice cartoon. but the concept of that sheep was a bouncer to me.. thoda batao

...Alright then!
I guess it's about time to add some good ol' levity to the proceedings!!!

So go ahead - Click on the attachment below and enjoy...
[Disclaimer: Any resemblance to any person living or dead is purely coincidental!!! ]

ps. [and yes, also as maybe a peace offering to my dear friend (no, no... not that kinds!) Kapil, with whom I have been agreeing to disagree! ]

 

[shailendra]

Shailendra.. nice cartoon. but the concept of that sheep was a bouncer to me.. thoda batao

... Na bhaiyee re, bera na patya ho to phaer es 'mystery' nae unhae rehen dae! ...

ps. Was taking a satirical swipe at this whole 'queer' situation... samagh lae ya line mein khadee aagli 'bhook' saein....

 

[shailendra]

Dear All,

I just thought of listing some FAQ’s on this subject.

Q1. Do Homosexuals exist?
A1. Yes.

Q2. Do human beings feel homosexual tendencies at least once in their lives?
A2. 99% do feel it and the rest 1% are telling lies.

Q3. Is this a disease?
A3. No.

Q4. Are homosexuals looked upon as equal members of the society in the Indian context?
A4. No.

Q5. Will they ever be?
A5. No. Irrespective of what High / Supreme Court rules or says.

Q6. Should homosexuality be legalized so that consenting adults are not troubled by conscious keepers of society?
A6. Yes.

Q7. Would you welcome a known homosexual in your social circle?A7. No.
A8. Yes.

Q9. Will the government go along with what the High Court has ruled?A9. Not likely because the ‘Ulemas’ have objected to it. Had Shankaracharyas objected to it, the government would have by now legalized homosexuality, even if it meant overuling the Supreme Court (Remember Shah Bano Case).

Q10. Where are the maximum Homos created (they are not born as Homos)?
A10. In Madarsas, Ashrams, Gurukuls, Boarding Schools, Buddhist Monastries, Christian Numnneries and in most places run in the name of child welfare by NGO’s funded by the government.

Best regards,

JS Malik

As usual a very balanced nuanced take on the whole discussion; infact really like the way you simplyfied the whole macro debate (on this thread) within these projected queries and then their answers...

... and ok so in the spirit of the post I too shall try and keep the sanctity of this simplified process and add my two cents hopefully in a concise way:

* The answers A4, A5 & A7 support the debatable fact that it would be (and already is) a massive, futile waste of time, paper and money (and likely maybe even life and property if mobs of anti-supporters take to the streets) that ultimately achieves nothing...!

[Note 1: and clearly even most supporters of the cause have a difficult time, in fact actually get massively offended even if jokingly referred to as 'self-practitioners', highlights the ultimate futility of the supposed support to such 'appease/make-believe' efforts... ]

* A6 –the only one main reason that supporters are touting as the need for the legal status (BUT more so if seen under the added scanner of the above three A4, 5 &7) clearly and simply shows that they are likely to still be targeted (if that is really what is happening every day, every hour) and if anything it is the Police reform (on...OH so many issues) that is NEEDED!
[Note 2: Women, and straight-couple situations in India a case in point!]

* A2 & A10 supports the much agreed (debatable) fact among the non-supporters; that it is after all simply an acquired ‘deviant’ behavior, a lifestyle, a sexual orientation/preference… etc. etc. that one wonders if REALLY needs a legal status to help people along with what they are doing in their bedrooms! (And of course one can quote other similar deviant sexual preferences that need no written support by people who practice in them!)

[Note3: and also as someone pointed out; let’s leave this (and anything else that makes your sexual high) in the privacy of the four walls and not spill out in the public domain! (What next: like the Developed countries now wasting time fighting, going crazy over same-sex marriage considerations?)]

* And lastly: A9 should most probably (hopefully) make this whole debate itself just a futile exercise!
[and though it is ultimately self-defeating for everyone; Note 1, 2 & 3 support the fact that even if goes thru; who cares... the general status-quo of such issues shall continue!]…

 

[kapdal]

Dear All,

I just thought of listing some FAQ’s on this subject.

Q1. Do Homosexuals exist?
A1. Yes.

Q2. Do human beings feel homosexual tendencies at least once in their lives?
A2. 99% do feel it and the rest 1% are telling lies.

Q3. Is this a disease?
A3. No.

Q4. Are homosexuals looked upon as equal members of the society in the Indian context?
A4. No.

Q5. Will they ever be?
A5. No. Irrespective of what High / Supreme Court rules or says.

Q6. Should homosexuality be legalized so that consenting adults are not troubled by conscious keepers of society?
A6. Yes.

Q7. Would you welcome a known homosexual in your social circle?A7. No.
A8. Yes.

Q9. Will the government go along with what the High Court has ruled?A9. Not likely because the ‘Ulemas’ have objected to it. Had Shankaracharyas objected to it, the government would have by now legalized homosexuality, even if it meant overuling the Supreme Court (Remember Shah Bano Case).

Q10. Where are the maximum Homos created (they are not born as Homos)?
A10. In Madarsas, Ashrams, Gurukuls, Boarding Schools, Buddhist Monastries, Christian Numnneries and in most places run in the name of child welfare by NGO’s funded by the government.

Best regards,

JS Malik

Sir, very nice and mostly agreeable FAQs and answers. Some comments:

Q5. "Ever" is an infinite time frame. India is a conservative society and clearly there is no hope for homos in short to medium term. But things change with time. So you never know.

Q6/9. Agree on both counts. The central topic of this debate, that has been answered by the court in a well-reasoned and balanced judgment. So I doubt SC would change the decision if govt. takes it there. Nevertheless, would be interesting to see if the govt. buckles under the pressure of the holier-than-thou brigade. Two ministers had vocally indicated before the judgment that it was time to do away with the said provision. So let's see.

Q7. Interestingly, you answered both yes and no . I probably see what you mean. It is really an individual's choice. But usually the visible homos are so "different" in their behavior that you don't connect with them socially. And one can't really do anything about those in the closet.

Q10. The places you have mentioned are places where people become homos not by choice but by force. I don't think one can attribute that as the chief cause given that lots of people become homos by choice. Moreso, if you also take into account the Western countries where people studying in co-ed schools and having enough exposure to opposite sex become homos. I found this on wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology_and_sexual_orientation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environment_and_sexual_orientation

First is a page listing all biological factors and the second one the environmental factors. I wasn't earlier aware of the environmental factors. Though even in environmental factors, prenatal hormones have been mentioned as a significant factor. The other listed factors being childhood gender non-conformity and family influence. The biological factors listed are linked to chromosomes and the brain structure. I guess what people believe in eventually is colored by what they want to believe in. Personally, I feel that given that so many people bred up in perfect hetero environments turn out to be homos, one can't ever rule out the biological factors. However, in light of new information, I do accept that environment can also play a role.

Agree with everything else you said.

 

[sidchhikara]

Q10. Where are the maximum Homos created (they are not born as Homos)?
A10. In Madarsas, Ashrams, Gurukuls, Boarding Schools, Buddhist Monastries, Christian Numnneries and in most places run in the name of child welfare by NGO’s funded by the government.

Best regards,

JS Malik

They also become homos during Kawar Yatra.
Their dress quite telling - Pink skirt with short tight red top.
Their slogan ... BUM BUM bole ... they are obsessed .. I tell you !

 

[cooljat]

Jaggu Uncle ??

Q2. Do human beings feel homosexual tendencies at least once in their lives?
A2. 99% do feel it and the rest 1% are telling lies.

 

[kapdal]

Q2. Do human beings feel homosexual tendencies at least once in their lives?
A2. 99% do feel it and the rest 1% are telling lies.

Oh, I missed the most controversial one...
Well yeah, don't know what the % is, but certainly can't be 100% as there is no phenomenon that can be attributed to 100% of mankind. I think the original one is "99% of people masturbate and the rest 1% are liers". That actually sounds much more believable, but even that is merely a fantastic statement. Nevertheless, I guess the logic behind the fantastic statement is to convey that it is not a disease and that it is "normal" to be homo as it is "normal" to be hetero. Also if hetero people can feel homo, I think it builds a strong case in favor of biological factors.

 

[rakeshsehrawat]

ek kavita si mili copya paste hai par chokhi hai

चाहे मानसून लेट आया है
पर एहसास नया ये लाया है,
कानून में सुधार आया है
देश में अब बदलाव आया है|

लड़के को लड़की न खोजनी
ना लड़की को लड़का,
कोई भी मिल जाये चलेगा
बस भिडे प्रेम का टांका |

शायद अब किसी घर में
मूंछों वाली भाभी आएँगी,
कन्यायें कन्या को भी अब
जीजू जीजू बुलाएंगी|

उन्मुक्त गगन के नीचे केवल
अब जोड़े ना रास रचाएंगे,
बदला बदला होगा मंजर
लड़के जब लड़का पटायेंगे|

पुलिस के पास भी अब शायद
छेड़छाड़ के केसेज बढ़ जायेंगे ,
महिला महिला को छेड़ेगी
पुरुष पुरुष से छेड़े जायेंगे |

हर सिक्के के पहलू दो होते
कुछ सुधार तो आयेंगे,
ये नए बदलाव देश को
जनसँख्या विस्फोट से बचायेंगे|