Even after 47 years, how prepared we are to face China??

Please go througfh this article;

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2009\08\01\story_1-8-2009_pg3_3

This is how a Pakistani observed about CHina. Most shocking paragraph in the article is;

"Another noticeable aspect is that the concept of the historical supremacy of the Chinese race and the primacy of the desire to return to ‘Greater China’, in all its lost glory, including all territories that were part of the original empire, is bred into all educated ethnic Chinese. This is the ultimate goal that all Chinese must strive for, but patiently; everything will fall into place at the right time. Meanwhile, build up the Chinese nation to achieve that end."

RK^2
 
India always considered Himalyas as its great wall which was breached well and proper in 1962 .
bls31
 
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kapil.dalal said:
Bheet is still an idea worth thinking about with Pakistan to deter infiltrators/smuggling. There is quite a bit of natural bheet with China in terms of Karakoram, Himalayas, etc. Plus, Chinese don't infiltrate India. Infiltration/smuggling happens a lot on India-Nepal border, which is much easier to infiltrate. Probably, one can think of this there if defence experts agree that it is going to help. China se ladaai hogi to air force, missiles, etc. ki zyada zaroorat hogi.
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Dear Kapil,
Firstly the Karakoram is a pass in Himalayas, that facilitates the movement across Himalayas. So that is contrary to what you intended to convey. Karakoram pass in a strategic location that increases the importance of Siachen Glacier.
Regarding many members suggesting the idea of a “WALL”. In the recent times, two most expensive defense lines were constructed. The first one was the Maginot Line by the French on German Border. Here is the link on information about this piece of defense work.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maginot_Line
The most interesting part of the Second World War had been, that Germans captured France with no fighting taking place on this expensive defense work. The classical “Turning Move” was achieved by the brilliant German Generals, by attacking France through the woods crossing the Meuse River. It was for the first time German’s or for that matter any Army used Tanks through Jungles, thereby surprising the French and allied forces.
The second most expensive defense line was constructed by Israel on Suez Canal called “Barlev Line”. With the massive Suez Canal providing excellent obstacle, and these defenses, no one thought that it would be crossed easily. Israelies worked on a 48 hours warning time. But guess what, the Egyptian Army crossed the Suez Canal in 6 hours. Not a few men, but two full armies. They totally surprised the Isrealies. If they did not go on to win a decisive victory that is a different issue. The fact of the matter is, a strong defense line can only delay the defeat, but can’t get you the victory.
Strategically, we do have the advantage of favorable terrain with respect to China. Careful planning, excellent deception measures, and synergy of diplomatic means and the might of defense forces, would be the ideal thing to deal with China. More for later time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_Lev_Line
 
raj2rif said:
Dear Kapil,
Firstly the Karakoram is a pass in Himalayas, that facilitates the movement across Himalayas. So that is contrary to what you intended to convey. Karakoram pass in a strategic location that increases the importance of Siachen Glacier.
Regarding many members suggesting the idea of a “WALL”. In the recent times, two most expensive defense lines were constructed. The first one was the Maginot Line by the French on German Border. Here is the link on information about this piece of defense work.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maginot_Line
The most interesting part of the Second World War had been, that Germans captured France with no fighting taking place on this expensive defense work. The classical “Turning Move” was achieved by the brilliant German Generals, by attacking France through the woods crossing the Meuse River. It was for the first time German’s or for that matter any Army used Tanks through Jungles, thereby surprising the French and allied forces.
The second most expensive defense line was constructed by Israel on Suez Canal called “Barlev Line”. With the massive Suez Canal providing excellent obstacle, and these defenses, no one thought that it would be crossed easily. Israelies worked on a 48 hours warning time. But guess what, the Egyptian Army crossed the Suez Canal in 6 hours. Not a few men, but two full armies. They totally surprised the Isrealies. If they did not go on to win a decisive victory that is a different issue. The fact of the matter is, a strong defense line can only delay the defeat, but can’t get you the victory.
Strategically, we do have the advantage of favorable terrain with respect to China. Careful planning, excellent deception measures, and synergy of diplomatic means and the might of defense forces, would be the ideal thing to deal with China. More for later time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bar_Lev_Line
Click to expand...

I think best defense is be offensive... We are doing right things by constructing roads in Sikkim and activating old air bases in Ladakh region..Put some tank units on both the places.. Increase the army strength.. Move all Para-military forces to tackle Naxalite menace in central India..
Jab tak hum China ko pretend nahin karenge ke humm bhi unki khod maar sakte hain.. woh sir par chadate rahenge...
We also need to put some armed forces in Afghanistan to cut-off Pakistan from those crazy muslim states in Central Asia..
 
insaniyat ke dushman: china, pakistan
itne acche friends nahe -lanka, bangladesh, nepal, burma
bacha kae? dusre andhurene dushman:maoists, militants in northeast states.
ghar mein lagi dimak: hamare neta
kya kaare baap sab jagay se gher liya. :D
 
Nothing to fear...

Dear All,

There is nothing to be scared from these Chinese. But for incompetent higher military leadership (obviously under confused political leadership) and inferior military equipment, the Indian Army would have sorted out this Chinese menace in 1962 itself. Even in 1962 there were instances when the Chinese were taught a lesson or two in conventional warfare. They again tried to be funny in 1968 in the Nathu La sector and a Grenadier Battalion showed them what we can do to them.

We are in 2009 and not 1962. Readers of military history would agree that China has so far not been able to capture any foreign land, except usurping unarmed and unsuspecting Tibet. The Vietnamese thrashed them a couple of decades back when they tried to show offensiveness on the China – Vietnam Border. They have so far not been able to do anything to Taiwan in spite of having the so called largest Army. And they dare not eye Japan. With all their might they have been able to extract only a mild apology from the Japanese for all that Japan did to them in the beginning of 20th Century. Yes, Chinese population may be huge and their tanks and aircrafts many, but their internal security situation is bad. There is discontentment in their rural areas.

In case China tries anything funny with India, Tibet will revolt. I suppose Indians have some quid pro quo agreement with the Tibetan Government in Exile in case of a war. I also believe there is a military wing of Exiled Tibetans. They will create havoc in the hinterland during war. Don’t forget the nuisance value of militant Islamists in the North West of China.

An Army’s does not become mighty by showing Kung Fu drills on Tiananmen Square. Fighting in mountains is now considered the strength of Indian Army. Our Navy has been handling a nuclear submarine since 80's. Our Air Force can take on the Chinese any time. There is nothing to fear but we can’t be complacent. There has to be a total understanding of national interests by the political spectrum and military leadership. Though I have been out of ‘Fauj’ since 2001 but I know that there are still some gaps in our preparedness and we are surely short of quality artillery guns.

War should be the last resort for a nation and I believe that at present there is no such conflict with China that favors them to go to war with us. But we should never let our guard down.

Regards,

JS Malik
 
jagmohan said:
Dear All,

There is nothing to be scared from these Chinese. But for incompetent higher military leadership (obviously under confused political leadership) and inferior military equipment, the Indian Army would have sorted out this Chinese menace in 1962 itself. Even in 1962 there were instances when the Chinese were taught a lesson or two in conventional warfare. They again tried to be funny in 1968 in the Nathu La sector and a Grenadier Battalion showed them what we can do to them.

We are in 2009 and not 1962. Readers of military history would agree that China has so far not been able to capture any foreign land, except usurping unarmed and unsuspecting Tibet. The Vietnamese thrashed them a couple of decades back when they tried to show offensiveness on the China – Vietnam Border. They have so far not been able to do anything to Taiwan in spite of having the so called largest Army. And they dare not eye Japan. With all their might they have been able to extract only a mild apology from the Japanese for all that Japan did to them in the beginning of 20th Century. Yes, Chinese population may be huge and their tanks and aircrafts many, but their internal security situation is bad. There is discontentment in their rural areas.

In case China tries anything funny with India, Tibet will revolt. I suppose Indians have some quid pro quo agreement with the Tibetan Government in Exile in case of a war. I also believe there is a military wing of Exiled Tibetans. They will create havoc in the hinterland during war. Don’t forget the nuisance value of militant Islamists in the North West of China.

An Army’s does not become mighty by showing Kung Fu drills on Tiananmen Square. Fighting in mountains is now considered the strength of Indian Army. Our Navy has been handling a nuclear submarine since 80's. Our Air Force can take on the Chinese any time. There is nothing to fear but we can’t be complacent. There has to be a total understanding of national interests by the political spectrum and military leadership. Though I have been out of ‘Fauj’ since 2001 but I know that there are still some gaps in our preparedness and we are surely short of quality artillery guns.

War should be the last resort for a nation and I believe that at present there is no such conflict with China that favors them to go to war with us. But we should never let our guard down.

Regards,

JS Malik
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Malik Sahab,

Your analysis seems to be the most realistic one. China is one country we have to be extremely careful of.

RK^2
 
further to my post

Dear Members,
We have strategic advantage over China due to the terrain and accession of Sikkim to our union. Here is the analysis. A war with China will involve all the three branches of the armed forces. Our Navy is progressing the most and we will be blue water navy in a short period of time if not already. Let me give you my two pennies on the advantage of each branch of the armed forces.
Navy: the strategic location of Andaman and Nicobar islands at the mouth of strait of Malacca is of very big advantage to us. We can control the movement of ships from Indian Ocean to Pacific Ocean. This base also helps us to dominate the Indian Ocean. This allows us to bring in diplomatic pressure on China in the case of a war with them. The world would like to move their trade ships through the shortest route and we can bargain the diplomatic support of those nations who want to move their cargos through this area.
Air Force: Air Crafts have limitations from taking off from the higher airfields. The phenomenon is called “All Up Weight”, that is the total weight an engine can support at the time of take off. The main weight aircrafts carry is fuel and ammunition. To take off from the higher airfields in Tibet, Chinese aircraft can carry only limited weight, thereby reducing either their radius of action or the payload of ammunition. Same is not the case with us. Our aircrafts at Tejpur and nearby airbases can fly with optimum weight, thus giving us capability to strike much deeper in China then Chinese can do. Chinese aircrafts taking of from the mainland China will have to travel a long distance within their own country, thus reducing their striking capability in deep targets inside India.
Army: the terrain in Tibet is flat and suitable for use of tanks, the most potent weapon during an offensive operation. While mountains provide the best advantage to the defender. The terrain on our side of the border is mountainous and thus gives us tremendous advantage of defending our borders. At the same time our tanks can roll down to Tibet Plato for offensive action. So, while we can use tanks for attacking Chinese positions in Tibet, same is not the case for them. We also need to ensure nothing moves from mainland China to Tibet through the areas of Kashmir given to them by Pakistan. Our presence in Siachen and Leh region will help us in doing that.
I don’t agree with Col Malik’s assessment of rebel Tibetans being a major factor. There are two reasons for that, firstly their number and their capabilities to trouble a professional army. Tibet is a plane and sparsely populated area and hence much easy to tackle. We probably have more rebels on our side of the border with much more suitable terrain for rebels to trouble us. We would have to take that factor in to consideration.
A war with China would pose major problem with our general staff reserves of petroleum. While Pakistan does not have capability of fighting a prolonged war, China does have that. Hence more reserve of the oil and our dependence on the Middle East world for that. That is going to be the major diplomatic issue that our government and foreign policy makers have to resolve.
There is a lot one can write on the subject, from diplomatic initiatives to economic blockades, from movement and build up of the forces to achieving the surprise factor, or for that matter, maintaining the rear areas from our rebels to maintaining the captured areas across the border. If any member wants to know more, I will be happy to address the issue as time permits.
 
Why we go on comparing ourselves with others?
Everyone dislikes when he/she compared to other and told that you are inferior then him/her. Grow up guys we are moving at a fast pace. Coming time is ours. It is not necessary that you are the winner but you are in race that's important. We are in race we are moving far better them more then 100 countries of world. Erope ke halat aaj ki tarikh mein bahut kharab hain.Not only Chinese but rest of the world also knows that only threat to China is India what else you want?We are the only one who can compete them. And that's why everyone starts rushing towards India. Big automakers entered the market as manufacturing cost is lot more cheaper then their own country second thing chances of copying their product are fewer then china.Infrastructure is improving day by day.
Doosre ki thali mein ghee ghana dikhya kare. China mein jake working condition dekh ke aao. Apne desh mein dangar bhi badhiya hai un tein.
 
chhillar said:
its an open secret Daac Saab that it was India who attacked China after the hindi chini bhai bhai, stupid General of Nehru had no idea what they were getting into......Times of India did publish those documents few years back

There is no way you can prepare against China, its too powerful, prepare kare te baat bane to pher to poore world ne le lyo bol ke....... the only thing that we might do is to just keep the relations congenial. In my opinion no country today has the preparedness to fight China not even US
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What a stupid response? nehru nei idea kyukar hoga wo te gulab ke phuul sunghei tha.US tei China ki gheess ghal de ga.Manghddant baat karne ka kya fayda.
 
rajesh00 said:
US tei China ki gheess ghal de ga.Manghddant baat karne ka kya fayda.
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ek dum sahi bhai.
Numbers does matter but can never compete with intelligence. The technologies that US possess are far far better than any other country. Thats why they are the super power!
Aur je number ki e baat se to bhai mhare desh ki jansankhya china te kam na se. ladaai k tam me to ikatthe hoke s*lyaan k bhobhre khol devange:rock
 
chillar ke post mein kuch dum tho hae. nehrui aur uska stupid minister sahe kaha bhai. ameerka vietnam mein haar gaya itne technology hote hue bhi, korea mein ek tarah se haar gaya. korea mein chini jab ladaki mein ghusse tho unnnone ameerkanon ko takreban hara diya. aaj north korea sirdadr bana hua hae. techonolgy hote hue bhi russi afghans se haar gayee, chechnya mein pehle haar gaye thee. :thappad
 
amritkharb said:
chillar ke post mein kuch dum tho hae. nehrui aur uska stupid minister sahe kaha bhai. ameerka vietnam mein haar gaya itne technology hote hue bhi, korea mein ek tarah se haar gaya. korea mein chini jab ladaki mein ghusse tho unnnone ameerkanon ko takreban hara diya. aaj north korea sirdadr bana hua hae. techonolgy hote hue bhi russi afghans se haar gayee, chechnya mein pehle haar gaye thee. :thappad
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Wo sab isliye Mr. Kharb kyuki unki internal manpower bahot strong h. Vietnam ka baccha bacchha khada ho gya tha us ladai me. or wo bahut purani baat h. If i m not worng 1976 k aspass ki h. Afghanistan ka to ilaaka e sara pahaado se bhra pada h. kaun kahan chip jata h pta hi nahi chalta or dusre desh me ander tak ghusne me whan ke logo ka support chaiye. Iraq ka bhul gya tu lage h. Saddam ko local support nahi tha isliye haar gya wo. 1990-91 me jab Khaadi yudh me hraya tha tab sirf technology ne hi jitwaya tha Amreeka ko. I agree technology is not the everthing. Even it has limitations. But they exist everywhere, be it anything.

Par bina technology k kuch nahi h aaj k tam me. Yu terea North Korea sirf nuclear technology k dum pe fudak rhya se.. Jis din ladaai hogi us din iski radak si mit jagi. Amreeka roj ek nayi technology develop kare se. kutru se yo north korea uske aage. Ladaai sirf isliye nahi ho rahi kyuki ladaai me nuclear power istemaal hongi er desh k desh tabaah ho jange. ek e nuclear bomb me tere is north korea ki kutiya si pit-ti ghumegi.. :thappad

Or nire fauji number badhaan te ladaai koni jeeti jaya kare. Dimag chaiye ladaai jeetan me. Bhtere example mil jange tane isse ise jit thode aadmiyan ne ghane aadmi haraye se. Best example jo mujhe yaad aa rha h wo Troy ka h. Kahani to padhi e hogi tane bachpan me uski.. Film b ban rhi se wa dekh li hogi nahi te.. Intelligence always has upper hand over numbers.. China ki itni trafdaari kar rhya se to ek ber bhida k dekh le amreeka gal usne.. Moosi se ragadti dikhaunga fer tere china ki.:boxing
 
coolmalik2008 said:
Wo sab isliye Mr. Kharb kyuki unki internal manpower bahot strong h. Vietnam ka baccha bacchha khada ho gya tha us ladai me. or wo bahut purani baat h. If i m not worng 1976 k aspass ki h. Afghanistan ka to ilaaka e sara pahaado se bhra pada h. kaun kahan chip jata h pta hi nahi chalta or dusre desh me ander tak ghusne me whan ke logo ka support chaiye. Iraq ka bhul gya tu lage h. Saddam ko local support nahi tha isliye haar gya wo. 1990-91 me jab Khaadi yudh me hraya tha tab sirf technology ne hi jitwaya tha Amreeka ko. I agree technology is not the everthing. Even it has limitations. But they exist everywhere, be it anything.

Par bina technology k kuch nahi h aaj k tam me. Yu terea North Korea sirf nuclear technology k dum pe fudak rhya se.. Jis din ladaai hogi us din iski radak si mit jagi. Amreeka roj ek nayi technology develop kare se. kutru se yo north korea uske aage. Ladaai sirf isliye nahi ho rahi kyuki ladaai me nuclear power istemaal hongi er desh k desh tabaah ho jange. ek e nuclear bomb me tere is north korea ki kutiya si pit-ti ghumegi.. :thappad

Or nire fauji number badhaan te ladaai koni jeeti jaya kare. Dimag chaiye ladaai jeetan me. Bhtere example mil jange tane isse ise jit thode aadmiyan ne ghane aadmi haraye se. Best example jo mujhe yaad aa rha h wo Troy ka h. Kahani to padhi e hogi tane bachpan me uski.. Film b ban rhi se wa dekh li hogi nahi te.. Intelligence always has upper hand over numbers.. China ki itni trafdaari kar rhya se to ek ber bhida k dekh le amreeka gal usne.. Moosi se ragadti dikhaunga fer tere china ki.:boxing
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saddam ko local support nahe tha isliye har gaya
amreeka ko technology ne jitya tha.

Do alag alag uttar ek baat ke? bhai aapka chasma dimag ke saath tho nahe jud gaya aapka? thabhi ek baat ke do alag uttar haen kya?
vietnam ka baccha bacha amreeka ke khilaf? kya filmi dialogue se? :D note kiya jaye. aapne bachoon ke ginti karee the ke? aree tannhe kuch bera bhi hae ke na? ke khali kitabeen mein se seedha uttar ke chap raha se? :D
thappad
north korea kabh gaya se? tanne korea ke barere kuch malum see? :tamatar
kitne purani film ke baare mein baat kari. china amreeka ki balls ko pakad kar betha hae. manne tanne explain karne koi jarrorat na. :D
bhai tu kachi kichdi se. tere saath bahas karne ka matlab hae mein bhi tere trah kachi kicdi na ho jayyon.:D
 
China should break up India: Chinese strategist !!



WTF !!!

" .. The article claimed that India as a nation never really existed in history. It was held together by - 'decadent' Hinduism which encouraged caste and exploitation .. " TOI


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...says-China-think-tank/articleshow/4883573.cms


" .. According to the article, if India today relies on any thing for unity, it is the Hindu religion. The partition of the country was based on religion. Stating that today nation states are the main current in the world, it has said that India could only be termed now as a 'Hindu religious state'. Adding that Hinduism is a decadent religion as it allows caste exploitation and is unhelpful to the country's modernisation, it described the Indian government as one in a dilemma with regard to eradication of the caste system as it realises that the process to do away with castes may shake the foundation of the consciousness of the Indian nation ... " Rediff


http://news.rediff.com/special/2009...reak-up-india-suggests-chinese-strategist.htm

 
Jaggu Uncle, I think Admiral Mehta isn't in agreement with your opinion! -

"In military terms, both conventional and non-conventional, we neither have the capability nor the intention to match China, force for force. These are indeed sobering thoughts and therefore our strategy to deal with China would need to be in consonance with these realities,” Mehta said, delivering an address on National Security Challenges organized by the National Maritime Foundation.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/d...tch-china-force-for-force-navy-chief/500573/1

jagmohan said:
An Army’s does not become mighty by showing Kung Fu drills on Tiananmen Square. Fighting in mountains is now considered the strength of Indian Army. Our Navy has been handling a nuclear submarine since 80's. Our Air Force can take on the Chinese any time. There is nothing to fear but we can’t be complacent. There has to be a total understanding of national interests by the political spectrum and military leadership. Though I have been out of ‘Fauj’ since 2001 but I know that there are still some gaps in our preparedness and we are surely short of quality artillery guns.

War should be the last resort for a nation and I believe that at present there is no such conflict with China that favors them to go to war with us. But we should never let our guard down.
Click to expand...
 
cooljat said:
Jaggu Uncle, I think Admiral Mehta isn't in agreement with your opinion! -

"In military terms, both conventional and non-conventional, we neither have the capability nor the intention to match China, force for force. These are indeed sobering thoughts and therefore our strategy to deal with China would need to be in consonance with these realities,” Mehta said, delivering an address on National Security Challenges organized by the National Maritime Foundation.

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/d...tch-china-force-for-force-navy-chief/500573/1
Click to expand...

Foot in the mouth syndrome shown by the navy chief. Whether we have the capability or not, as chief of India's navy, he has no business making public comments to this effect. This is what China wants to hear- a public acceptance of weakness. I won't expect the defence chief of even Somalia to make such a ridiculous statement. If you read the full speech, he is building a case for more defence expenditure. Fine- shout these niceties in Manmohan Singh or Antony's ears. Instead of doing an implicit surrender before the enemy.
 
Right Said, sucha lose statement wasn't expected from Navy Chief !:o

kapil.dalal said:
Foot in the mouth syndrome shown by the navy chief. Whether we have the capability or not, as chief of India's navy, he has no business making public comments to this effect. This is what China wants to hear- a public acceptance of weakness. I won't expect the defence chief of even Somalia to make such a ridiculous statement. If you read the full speech, he is building a case for more defence expenditure. Fine- shout these niceties in Manmohan Singh or Antony's ears. Instead of doing an implicit surrender before the enemy.
Click to expand...
 
cooljat said:
WTF !!!

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...says-China-think-tank/articleshow/4883573.cms


http://news.rediff.com/special/2009...reak-up-india-suggests-chinese-strategist.htm
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Jit, I think these are calculated gimmicks by their govt and many other nations in the world resort to these type of statements sometimes. They throw the idea and then see what are the reactions, sometimes the idea has the takers in the effected nation itself.......
It is always easy to denounce such thoughts by the same person or by his government.
 
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