Racism, Safety and Wayout!

as far as being modest, I dont go loggerheads with people,,dont have ego issues
I admit..maybe was too heavy-handed..but wot baffled me and blew my lid was:

a)that the my second post was genuine without any malice but yeah with a tinge of humor..which Mr Fateh announced as in bad teste and started passing his twisted perception...lost in translation..wots a slang to do with a "blanket"

b)The first post wasnt even meant for him

settle down guys.. (specially if you dont know the whole history).. now excuse me and get off my back
 
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Samarkadian said:
Racism is the belief that race is a primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial difference produce an inherent superiority of a particular race. In the case of institutional racism, certain racial groups may be denied rights or benefits, or get preferential treatment.


That is the literal definition of racism from a primary source of modern world. Ignominious incidents of attacks on Asians in Australia have been a cynosure for couple of months now. And a source to start this thread on the forum. We are hearing almost every week that a bevy of youngsters attacked an Indian taxi driver, a student or a professional. This may or may not fall in the category of racism. These may have been by lower class drug addicted junky’s way of hatching a bit of money for their hallucinations. There is least possibility of retort at the spot. Moreover, An Asian would not like to report these to authorities due to legal reasons or better say selfish ones. It is in fact very unfortunate and irreversible disservice for families who have lost their sons in this fire of foreign territory. Had it been limited to just once in a while criminal attacks for the purpose of looting, hardly, it would have gain a status of concern for government of Australia and India. But the frequencies of unruly attacks have made it visible to all. It has crossed the criminal sphere for sure. Also it has shown reality of dollar land to many aspirants. A torrid blow to Australian civilized image, currency and manpower. Australian government has been adamant over accepting these attacks as racial. Indian useless media has put the enough pressure on both Governments through their cult classic drivel. Lately, there have been reports that it has turned in to racial discrimination as per literal definition. Asians have been denied entrance in many civilized institutions of leisure. Now this is alarming and I would say a return to British way. This is Racism because it is inclusive of all blue and white collars professional.Tacital discrimination do not despoil the money but somewhere a deep attack on self-esteem . Looted money can be reversed but self-esteem can not be. This is not physical attack which can be parenthesized as a random incident of loot.

Why This Happens:
This is not that difficult to understand. I would just not flow in gush of patriotic feelings. Every human being, like animals, is filled with the instinct of Territory. Any foreign object in territory leads to a conflict and often a aggressive conflict including physical handling. Few radical mindsets consider it a conscience call to run the foreign object out of the territory. We have seen this happened last year in Maharashtra, when Raj Thakrey gang had beaten up North Indians. It was the cause of same sentiment. There is still a difference between Maharashtra and Australian racial attacks. India overall has an image of third world and uncivilized as compared to First World countries. Australia as a developed country along with set civilized rules is far ahead so they are prone to more criticism and questioning when it comes to natural rights of human behavior. It has contoured itself as a destination to be lived and worked.These claims seems to make them more humane than others. So the question is How, When and What Australian government must do? Bigger question stands and asks What is the way to deal and handle racism legaly and socialy?

Experiences of Jats overseas:
On the matter stated above , thread would like to have unbiased view from Jats overseas.
It could be of a racial attack, racial tacit discrimination at work. More important would be to know the way they had handled it or didn’t handle. What are their suggestions in case of such decadent incidents? Please contribute!

Safety:-
Obviously one can’t be pranced and straddle when subjected to such spiteful and frivolous acts but capitulation is not the right answer as well. I would like members to express their views about safe and safe exit.

PS: Please just do not yodel over people'c choice to go overseas. It is quite idiosyncratic issue pertaining to livlihood.
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Dear Samar, in my opinion this is completely a hype created from Indian media..Media is creating stories resulting in distorting the bilateral relationship between two nation..I hope Indian media and Indian Diplomats should look into matter very seriously before passing some ludicrous statements.
 
atishmohan said:
Dear Samar, in my opinion this is completely a hype created from Indian media..Media is creating stories resulting in distorting the bilateral relationship between two nation..I hope Indian media and Indian Diplomats should look into matter very seriously before passing some ludicrous statements.
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Atish bhai, Would you mind a bit to prove it yourway?
 
Samarkadian said:
Atish bhai, Would you mind a bit to prove it yourway?
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Dear Samar, I am living in Aus from last 4.5 years and never had a bad experience here.. In fact i have learned a lot in terms of respecting people, in terms of gestures etc..Anyways..Coming to the point..First Incident happened with Nitin Garg..He was working in area that is not known safe for anybody..And then he dared to pass through a park to catch a train which is in fact not a right spot to be in the night..People migrated from Somalia, Lebanon(Basically Black People) on refugee visas live in those suburbs where Nitin Garg was working..These people do not have any good skills to work..they basically rely on theft, burglary etc...They are more addicted to drugs and for quick money they opt for theft, burglary etc..On the same day when Nitin Garg was stabbed, two of the other Australian were also stabbed in the same region(Footscray Area)..And the people involved in stabbing were the BLACK(Somalian, Lebanese)..Luckily they survived and escaped from fatal injuries..The other incident which happened to the Punjabi guy in Essendon(Melbourne Suburb) was not clear..it is suspected that the couple(Punjabi guy and his wife) had some arguments...and resulting in forcing the Punjabi guy to burn his own vehicle..Some say, he was looking to claim the insurance..But no Australian was involved in burning the vehicle..Still police investigation is going on to find the suspect..Other Incident..Petrol Bomb to set ablaze the Gurdwara in Cranbourne(Melbourne Suburb),is till under investigation..No one has been caught yet...but as far as my knowledge is concerned, this might be someone from Indian community, who would have done to ignite the politics going on over the construction of Gurdwara in Cranbourne..There has been disputes among Sikhs for building this newly Gurdwara in Cranbourne...I am pretty sure that this might be someone from Indian community(Sikh), who would have been involved in such a shameful attempt..Now coming to the Taxi Drivers in Victoria...This type of profession involves all type of incidents which happen in India as well but not highlighted by media..These incidents could happen to anybody.doesnt matter whether the driver is Australian or is from Overseas...it's not like people only choose Indians to embarrass or harass them..but our media does not care..they only need MASALA to sell the news..No One look at the facts behind all of these incidents..In another incident, dead body of Punjabi guy found in farms(Griffith,Victoria) was a result of dispute among the Punjabi's themselves..But despite of waiting for the result of the investigation, our media straightly blamed Australians..And the way they Portray these Incidents, it seems that there is something wrong with the Australians, which i think is damaging the relationship between India and Australia.
 
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Would like to make a brief comment. Lots of different kinds of discriminations are being bandied together as Racism. Regionalism, racism, casteism, communalism, etc. are all very different things. One may consider all of these as bad. But one needs to appreciate the differences before commenting, rather than pigeonholing all of them. For example, every big country in the world has some sort of regionalism. The US has fought a civil war on North vs. South issue and the differences still exist. A country as small as the UK has all sorts of regional identities- North, South, Wales, Scots, Irish, etc. To expect a country of the size of India, with humungous diversity (languages, cultures, etc.), not to have any identity based issues, would be a bit inane. An average, semi-literate guy on the street is expected to be chauvinistic about his identity. As economics forces migration and intermixing, such issues can only go down (with occasional Raj Thackeray style outbursts).

Also, discrimination is a fact of life. We discriminate in our day to day life when we make friends, hire people, choose employers, choose products, etc. etc. It may be based on any benefit to the self- pertaining to economics, taste, lifestyle, etc. What has given racism a particularly bad name is the historical context- Slavery, apartheid, holocaust, etc. Much of the world's perception of racism has developed from those deplorable acts. Can one really compare the discriminatory features of Indian polity against that yardstick? (PLEASE NOTE I am not saying that the discriminatory features are good).
 
atishmohan said:
I am living in Aus from last 4.5 years and never had a bad experience here. .
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very apt reply..good on ya

well, had put my views, but in a wrong thread..so didnt feel like discussing again
http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?29358-Shocked-by-the-Law-and-Order-in-India


n yes, before asking for justice n a "fair-go"
1) Was there any protest when an Indian guy strangled his wife in Sydney recently?
2) Any plans for returning fugitive Puneet Puneet who had killed an aussie and fled to India through a fake Passport with the help of his friend
3)Another Indian killed a lady and her unborn child..inasmuch as the next day he feared there would be racial riots if the people here get to know..but there were none.
so things happen..

these were just latest..there are countless
and yeah
4) any plans for teaching Indian students arriving Oz some basic manners and hygiene and get them conditioned to the living conditions and assimilation.
 
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as an afterthought..advise them not to settle in West Melbourne n the ghettos there..
went there once by mistake and left me wondering..jeez..m I even in Aus. ?
 
deepshi said:
dont quote me..just DONT quote me..I dont even know you..n this doesnt even concern you
n dont be a preacher again
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I smell a rat that some scum barge into discussion without having a clue of it, could have some mental retardness issues..Isn't it.
 
Samar has started a good topic but there are some members who have nothing to do with the topic and they just want to make their presence felt in every sphere on this platform of jatland. They are good for nothing. They defend themselves so much unnecessarily and the topic gets derailed. Racism is everywhere but in some places it plays a dominant role and Australia is one of those places. In India we do not see much racism, rather we can say that castism and regionalism do exist in India. Racism in real sense is hate against a particular race and it is true that it does exist in Australia and it is visible too. One of my close friend is living in Sydney for the last more than a decade and he admits about its existence.
Members should have patience and regards for comments of others whether they agree or do not agree with others.
 
Fateh said:
Precautions as I feel, a) KNOWLEDGE ABOUT THAT NATION, THEIR PEOPLE, THEIR TRADITIONS, SYSTEMS, LOCAL LAWS, REPORTING SYSTEMS,,

B) mix like water in their social, cultural & legal system, donot keep more cash/valuables on person or at residance,
c) be visilent always,
d) donot start any arguement & it is batter to avoide the trouble,
e) Hire residential accomodation in batter areas away from druggies.
f) In the presence of locals, talk only in english, donot jock with them,
g) have real unity in defending yourselves, avoide exccess drinking at public places,
h) donot show your fear even if you have,
j) display highest standard of self discipline, specially in dealing with women, playing music at night or any other such activity,
k) be more careful from friday evening till sunday midnight.
l) avoide going to lonely places, m) if possible & law permits keep some weapon, which can be used for self defence,
n) coop with fellow Indians & finally have faith in self & the almighty.
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Thank you Sir, some of them are really good as precautions to stay safe at foreign land.


yudhvirmor said:
Its 20% reality and 80% media hype.. I am not sure why media is not talking about racism in Bangalore,Mumbai and Chennai with North Indians.

However, Its a good stance by Indian govt to raise this issue with Australian authorities. I am sure Australia is listening and they don't want to loose 7 Billion per year industry to UK & US.

People are painting everything with same brush, whenever any asian is involved in any incident, they put it under same chapter of Racism. I think Australian authorities are doing everything to prevent these kind of incidents.

Even in our country, We heard so many molestation or rapes incidents involving foreigners. There are culprits in every society.
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Yudhvir Sahab, You think or you know about what Australian govt is doing to cut short these incidents? Be precise. Up to now they were highly reluctant to even accept it. There has been perfunctory acceptance and implicit condemnation by middle level Australian authorities.

Have a look at this quote and report by An Australian professor which is quite verbose about reality :

He added: "For its part, the Australian government is in denial ... Australia has taken little action to tackle the problem of international student safety, while denying racism is a factor.This undermines statements that Australia is a non-racist country."

Full report here - http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/5449441.cms



pushpindermalik said:
i agree with u bro
i lived in melbourne for 4 yrs n never find that racism thing
every society hav few people who cause the problems
thats same in melbourne
only few racist people and more work done by the media
no country is perfect but australia is far better than other countries
i can say more than 80% people are very good n friendly
tha bashing up in melbourne is not only with indians
its with other people as well
but the media shows up only indian side
from my point of view its all becoz of police n law in australia
police hav less rights than an ordinary person but still they can do a lot but they just doing their duty as usual
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Malik Sahab , Atish,


Media reports are not purely a pudding. Okay, you may shirk from desi paltitudnal reports so lets dig this conundrum with what Victoria’s top cop has said -

"We recognised this problem a long time before it hit the public .We have known for two years that there has been this issue and we have been working away, at a number of levels around engaging with students, trying to make them understand the risks and how they keep themselves safe."

Link here - http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/5479454.cms


Deepshi, your afterthought is enough to confirm.



Posters who are patronising that Aus is free of racism must look at this deeply for a reality check:-


The Stolen Generations is a term used to describe children of Australian Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander descent who were removed from their families by Australian Federal and State agencies and church missions, under acts of parliament. The removals occurred in the period between approximately 1869[5] and 1969,[6][7] although in some places children were still being taken in the 1970s.Historians such as Henry Reynolds have argued that this constitutes genocide.
In April 2000, the Aboriginal Affairs Minister John Herron, presented a report in the Australian Parliament that questioned whether there had been a "Stolen Generation", arguing that only 10% of Aboriginal children had been removed, and they did not constitute an entire "generation". The report received media attention and there were protests.
On 13 February 2008 Prime Minister Kevin Rudd presented an apology for the "Stolen Generation" as a motion in Parliament.


Last line says all. No?


Source:- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_Australia




ygulia said:
Racism is everywhere but in some places it plays a dominant role and Australia is one of those places. In India we do not see much racism, rather we can say that castism and regionalism do exist in India. Racism in real sense is hate against a particular race and it is true that it does exist in Australia and it is visible too. One of my close friend is living in Sydney for the last more than a decade and he admits about its existence.
.
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Thank you Gulia sahab for propping the topic at the desired track. We can always choose to ignore incensed posts. How did your close friend handle such situations? Any insight?

Once again this discussion is on the lines of awareness about what is it and what is it not and ways to deal with.
 
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What one thinks when call a fellow Indians refuzees, pakistanis, biharis, madrashis?
Most of these names/ titles are uttered out of prejudiced frame of mind if not out of hatred.
What percentage of Indian people act in this fashion?
Probably a small % of total population.
So, are we a racist society? I certainly don't justify the incidents happened recently in Australia but would reiterate that this kind of violence is a universal phenomenon.
Same applies to Australia .A small number of people, specially frustrated youths, mostly in their teens, indulge in this kind of activities and that too in a few suburbs only and from different ethnic groups.

Now question is why only Indian students and Indian taxi drivers are targeted?
There are about 45-50 thousand Indian students In Melbourne alone. I wouldn't have a precise figure but a rough estimate only. Many of them are married having their spouses work permit. So this figure is much hire.
There are about 5000 thousand taxi drivers in Melbourne. Out of this about 70% are Indians and majority of them are students.
A large number of them are not well versed in spoken English and fail to communicate properly with with their clients.
I don't have to explain as what type of people travel on weekend night in these taxis.

Secondly, most of the late night workers in supermarkets, restaurants, fast food outlets, pizza delivery call centers and security services etc are these young Indian students or their spouses. Majority of them use public transport and walk to their destinations. Hence they are the soft target. Most of the time they don't react as they don't want any police case etc. that could ruin their chances of getting residency .

In my estimate, the number of serious nature of attacks could be 20-25 during the whole of last year. I mean these are the figure reported in Australian Media. Indian media overreacting to these incidents has brought both positive and negatives of the issue. Local govt has taken the matter more seriously. Negative is the surge in these attacks which will decline in the future.


Cheers!
 
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जो ना जाने हक की ताक़त
रब ना देवे उसको हिम्मत
हम मन के दरिया में डूबें
कैसी नय्या, क्या मंज्धार !
बस करी हो यार ........एक सूफी कवी


खुश रहो !

सत्यपाल
 
Good move by Govt... should also discourage this mad rush for Foreign Education. Australia doesn't have good institutes. Many 'good' students are being lured for some cheap money (plus the charm of foreign land) and ending up as 'good for nothing'.
http://news.rediff.com/report/2010/jan/29/avoid-australia-for-now-govt-to-indian-students.htm
-----

:D Serving to the mood of readers: http://news.rediff.com/slide-show/2010/jan/29/slide-show-1-australians-worlds-biggest-sinners.htm
:D :D

Media over-hyped or NOT (some ppl even say that many Indian/Asians do not report to police such incidents as they fear it might hamper their chances of getting PR), one thing is for sure these incidents are reaffirming (at least in mind of Indiansl) image of Australians as ruffians, inherently criminals (aboriginal genocide, a point in case) exiled to a barren land by British. :-)
 
sunillathwal said:
Good move by Govt... should also discourage this mad rush for Foreign Education. Australia doesn't have good institutes. Many 'good' students are being lured for some cheap money (plus the charm of foreign land) and ending up as 'good for nothing'.
http://news.rediff.com/report/2010/jan/29/avoid-australia-for-now-govt-to-indian-students.htm
-----

:D Serving to the mood of readers: http://news.rediff.com/slide-show/2010/jan/29/slide-show-1-australians-worlds-biggest-sinners.htm
:D :D

Media over-hyped or NOT (some ppl even say that many Indian/Asians do not report to police such incidents as they fear it might hamper their chances of getting PR), one thing is for sure these incidents are reaffirming (at least in mind of Indiansl) image of Australians as ruffians, inherently criminals (aboriginal genocide, a point in case) exiled to a barren land by British. :-)
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Govt is wiping out deemed universities to make sure university shops overseas keep on doing good business.
I don't understand why govt. is not uttering a single word about Indian fishermen/POWs in Pakistani jails..

Whatever Aussies will do, You'll find queue in front of Australia embassy in Delhi. Reasons are quite simple..

1. Life is damn comfortable outside India in developed countries
2. Good scope to make money
3. Person with average skill set can make almost 10 times of what they make in india.
4. No unnecessary relatives to bother you on weekends.
5. Law enforcement agencies won't discriminate you. I strongly agree with it.
6. You kids can get some real sense of life by avoiding IIT rat race.
 
yudhvirmor said:
Whatever Aussies will do, You'll find queue in front of Australia embassy in Delhi. Reasons are quite simple..

1. Life is damn comfortable outside India in developed countries
2. Good scope to make money
3. Person with average skill set can make almost 10 times of what they make in india.
4. No unnecessary relatives to bother you on weekends.
5. Law enforcement agencies won't discriminate you. I strongly agree with it.
6. You kids can get some real sense of life by avoiding IIT rat race.
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I agree with you word-by-word.
ar bhai kisse me jor ho to Thackrey ne rok lo. hajaaro kilometer door pe racism dikh gya, par apne ghar me hon laag rya wo na dikhta. uska poonjhad na paatte kisse pe
 
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