"Should the Govt amend HMA to ban 'same-gotra' marriage"?

[kapdal]

Kapil

Fatehji is senior to most of us.He is also head of the Kharab Khap.

He means- Dear Son, by 'Sunni'

I too am going to request, members,( including Fatehji) to give a detailed response- agreement , disagreement- point form


Ravi Chaudhary

Raviji,

1. I am not sure why you are telling me about his seniority. I have not talked to him in a disrespectful language.

2. This is the first time I have seen Sunni used for Dear Son. I have only heard of Sunni in Shia-Sunni terms. Anyways, I didn't raise any objections on his usage of that term. Thanks for clarifying what it meant.

3. I had misspelt Fatehji as Fatheji. Genuine typing mistake that I have since corrected. Incidentally, you have also misspelt Kharb as Kharab.

4. This last point is general and not directed at anyone specific. Respecting the elderly and their experience are universal cultural phenomenona, not restricted to India or to Jats. A person's age, achievements and position does convey to an extent his authority of the subject. However, it should not mean that the views are considered as sacrosanct. The argument should still be debated on merit and logic. As I grow old and hopefully add a few points to my CV, I hope I can come to a discussion without my status/age/achievements/position coloring my tone/texture/logic. I think that'd be a true test of character.

Thanks and Regards.

 

[delhione]

Suggestion to the HMA Amendment seekers.

I have seen some same gotra marriage Jat couples seeking police protection from Punjab & Haryana High Court, and you would feel pity because in almost all of these interactions I came to know that the couples were little or poorly educated but fighting against the society in the delirium of their love.
These couples hardly knew the historical aspect of Jat leaders, their sacrifice to make our community proud, the Jat community values; but these couples were well informed about the latest movie release, block busters, latest political scandals, and of course the powers of the court for providing protection to their love.

To me their high voltage romance is the outcome of the educational system, which failed to impart any education which teaches them about the Jat ethos, morals and values.

I remember, in my school days there was one chapter about Ch. Chotu Ram, which used to inspire us a lot. The pride after reading that chapter was because Ch. Chotu Ram did so much for poor, debt ridden and land less farmers irrespective of their community and we also wanted to adopt him as our role model. But last year a school going child told me there is no as such chapter now a days and nothing is there on Jats values, leaders or the sacrifice they have done.

So, in my opinion by seeking amendment to HMA, 1955, the so called "well wishers" people are curing the patient, not the disease…

It is my suggestion that the amendment advocates should also seek cleansing of the educational system by incorporating the inspiring chapters on various Jat leaders who did so much for all the poor and downtrodden classes and brought honour to our Jat community. I think an education system soft on moral, community and nationalism values is dragging the nation to chaos on installment basis.

I am sure if Jat moral values, ethos and principles are taught to every Jat child from the beginning then they themselves would detest and hate such relationships throughout their life and would also not indulge in to other activities which sometimes give bad name to our community at large.

Regards,

Yashpal.

 

[singhvp]

Anjoo

Traditionally

Girls marrying into jats , become Jats , as do their offspring.

There is no differentiation- none of this high low caste business.

Old saying 'Jat ke Aayi jatni kelayii'

Jat girls who marry into other communities, have to abide by the rules and customs of those communities. They will lose their jat identity.


This is the case with patriarcal communities.

In Matriarchal communities the customs may be different.

This has nothing to with respect for womenkind.

Ravi ji,

In patriarchal communities, womenkind are the net losers. But the trend is now changing. Some ladies have now started retaining their maiden surnames post-marriage alongwith newly acquired surname (husband's surname). I know a few of them. It means it has something to do with their prestige and it is not always with their volition that they surrender their maiden surname. They are rather obliged to do so being biologically weaker and hence a parasite on the menfolk in most cases. The trend of retaining maiden surname is a pointer that the wheel of patriarchal tradition has come full circle.

 

[hemanthooda]

So, Mr Media can you pl tell why there is biased reporting from media???You report mirchpur incident on 24x7 news channel,,, why not Jadaul in UP....just because dalits are not on receiving end....You guys always report what suits your TRP..

Seema ,First of all my apologies for addressing you as Mr.Media ..i am still expecting a reply from your side on double standards of reporting!!!!

 

[ravichaudhary]

Raviji,

1. I am not sure why you are telling me about his seniority. I have not talked to him in a disrespectful language.

2. This is the first time I have seen Sunni used for Dear Son. I have only heard of Sunni in Shia-Sunni terms. Anyways, I didn't raise any objections on his usage of that term. Thanks for clarifying what it meant.

3. I had misspelt Fatehji as Fatheji. Genuine typing mistake that I have since corrected. Incidentally, you have also misspelt Kharb as Kharab.

4. This last point is general and not directed at anyone specific. Respecting the elderly and their experience are universal cultural phenomenona, not restricted to India or to Jats. A person's age, achievements and position does convey to an extent his authority of the subject. However, it should not mean that the views are considered as sacrosanct. The argument should still be debated on merit and logic. As I grow old and hopefully add a few points to my CV, I hope I can come to a discussion without my status/age/achievements/position coloring my tone/texture/logic. I think that'd be a true test of character.

Thanks and Regards.

Kapil

We all Know that your writings are not disrespectful, including your latest posts.

My comment was made so that all members could know about Fatehji and his seniority and stature.

We should also be sensitive, and we all are so, that many memberss jUnior and senior will not have an excellent command of English, and will often make communication mistakes.

Now having said that,

I will second what you asked for, and ask Fateh ji and other members to post their comments in specific manner, indicating what they agree with , and what they do not agree with, and also to tell us why that is so.

That will make a constructive conversation happen.

Take care

Ravi Chaudhary

 

[nitindev]

And respect should be mutual Although I am not touchy but usually there a reaction when somone is instigagted to do so..

Kapil

We all Know that your writings are not disrespectful, inclding your latest posts.

My comment was made so that all members could know about Fatehji and his seniority and stature.

We should also be sensitive, and we all are so, that many memberss jUnior and senior will not have an excellent command of English, and will often make communication mistakes.

Now having said that,

I will second what you asked for, and ask Fateh ji and other mebers to ppost their commenst in specific manner, indiacting waht they agree with , and waht they do not agree with, and also to tell wahy that is so.

That will amke a constrcutive conversation happen.

Take care

Ravi Chaudhary

 

[ravichaudhary]

Please, could members get back to the Topic.

Ravi Chaudhary

 

[rakeshsehrawat]

Kapil

We all Know that your writings are not disrespectful, inclding your latest posts.

My comment was made so that all members could know about Fatehji and his seniority and stature.

We should also be sensitive, and we all are so, that many memberss jUnior and senior will not have an excellent command of English, and will often make communication mistakes.

Now having said that,

I will second what you asked for, and ask Fateh ji and other members to post their comments in specific manner, indicating what they agree with , and what they do not agree with, and also to tell us why that is so.

That will make a constructive conversation happen.

Take care

Ravi Chaudhary

Samajh nahi aa raha ki jhad ke jut mara hai maar ke jut jhada hai

 

[annch]

Yashpal ji,

A great suggestion. A slight clarification- You stated that the couples who had same-gotra marriage were little or poorly educated. How will upgardes in education help couples who are not/ little/ poorly educated?

Is there any literature pertaining particularly to jat moral values, ethos and principles?

 

[vijay123]

Raviji,

This happens only with Biharans and Bengalans that some jats are buying these days to fulfill the void created by skewed male-fem ratio.

Dear D R Chaudhry

What an interesting article!

Is it your suggestion, that the jats are selling their women for Rs 15,000 ( to fulfill their 'Havas')?

Could you provide some details?

Ravi Chaudhary

 

[nitindev]

I wonder whether he would be able to produce any receipts of the transaction. Neverthess, it would be interesting to know the source of the info, though I am not susprised to hear it.

Dear D R Chaudhry

What an interesting article!

Is it your suggestion, that the jats are selling their women for Rs 15,000 ( to fulfill their 'Havas')?

Could you provide some details?

Ravi Chaudhary

 

[delhione]

Anjoo Ji,

"Is there any literature pertaining particularly to jat moral values, ethos and principles? "

this question has to be asked to the man seeking HMA amendment... not me ?

Regards,

Yashpal.

 

[virj]

Kuch saval Mahre bhi is Mahan chaudhary se

Please read the article :

खाप पंचायत एक पुरानी संस्था है । छठी शताब्दी में महाराजा हर्षवर्धन ने सर्वखाप पंचायत बुलाई थी । सही मायने में इसका विस्तार मध्यकालीन युग में हुआ था, जब कानून व्यवस्था की स्थिति अच्छी नहीं थी । इसका मुख्य कार्य अपने सदस्यों को सुरक्षा प्रदान करना तथा उनके आपसी झगड़ों का निपटारा करना था। उस काल में और 1857 के अंग्रेजों के विरुद्ध विद्रोह में हरियाणा और पश्चिमी उत्तर प्रदेश की खापों की प्रशंसनीय भूमिका रही है। खाप के सब सदस्यों में खून का रिश्ता माना जाता है। इसलिये विवाह पर कई प्रकार के प्रतिबंध हंै-जैसा कि सगोत्र विवाह, गांव में विवाह तथा पड़ोस के गांव में वैवाहिक संबंधों पर प्रतिबंध है। फिर कुछ गोत्रों में भाईचारा माना जाता है और उनमें वैवाहिक संबंध पर रोक है।

Ok fine.

हरियाणा के कुछ जिले, दिल्ली देहात, पश्चिमी उत्तर प्रदेश और दिल्ली से सटा हुआ राजस्थान का क्षेत्र खाप क्षेत्र में आता है। यह अधिकांश रूप से गोत्र आधारित व्यवस्था है। किसी गंभीर समस्या पर विचार करने के लिये सब या कुछेक खापों के सम्मेलन को सर्वखाप पंचायत की संज्ञा दी जाती है।
पिछले कई सालों से हरियाणा की खाप पंचायत अपने फरमानों की वजह से चर्चा में रही है। वैवाहिक जोड़ों को भाई-बहन बनाने का फरमान, परिवारों का सामाजिक बहिष्कार या उनके गांव से निष्कासन, ऑनर किलिंग-सम्मान के लिये मृत्यु दण्ड इत्यादि मामलों में हरियाणा की खापें मीडिया में छाई रही हैं।

पिछले कितने सालों से? हर उससे पहले जो ऐसा करता था उसके साथ क्या होता था?

आजकल हरियाणा की खापें उक्त फैसलों से पल्ला झाडऩे में लगी हुई हैं। उनकी दलील है कि अमानवीय फरमान जारी करने में खापों की कोई भागीदारी नहीं रही, अपितु इस प्रकार के फैसले गांव विशेष की पंचायत व विशिष्ट परिवार के लोग लेते रहे हैं और खाप को मीडिया बिना मतलब बदनाम करने में लगा हुआ है। मैं अपने निजी अनुभव के आधार पर कह सकता हूं कि यह दलील आधारहीन है।

तो भाई फर्जी चौधरी तेरे मुताबीक हिसार में खाप नहीं हे. हाँ कुछ एरिया में खाप नहीं हे पर वहां ये काम बड़े बुजुर्ग करते हे जैसे की खाप दुसरे एरिया में करती ह. तो तू मेने नु बता हिसार में सिस्वाला गाम में गया हे? ओड़े एक चमार ने आपकी टिंगरी मारी थी कुछ साल पहली. व होनोर किल्लिंग थी. ओड़े तो खाप कोणी तो व किसने करवाई? हर क्यों तेरे जैसे ज्ञानियों ने विरोध भी नहीं किया? एसे कई उधारण स पर पहली तू इसका बेरा पड़ के बता.

हरियाणा के जिन गांवों में पिछले दो दशक से खाप संबंधित घटनाएं हुई हैं, मैं लगभग उन्हीं सभी गांवों में गया हूं और मामले की तह तक जाने की चेष्टा की है। कुछ समय पहले झज्जर जिले के आसंडा गांव में राठी खाप की पंचायत राठी खाप के प्रधान धर्म सिंह राठी की अध्यक्षता में हुई और उस गांव के एक वैवाहिक जोड़े को भाई-बहन बनाने का फरमान जारी किया गया। लेकिन न्यायालय के हस्तक्षेप के बाद खाप को ये फैसला बदलना पड़ा। जींद जिले के सिंहवाल गांव में बनवाला खाप के प्रधान ने हुक्मनामा जारी किया कि कैथल जिले के वेद पाल मौर की हत्या कर दी जाए क्योंकि उसने उस गांव की लड़की सोनिया बनवाला से विवाह करके खाप परम्परा का उल्लंघन किया था। उसका बयान कई टी$वी$ चैनलों पर टैलिकास्ट हुआ और अखबारों में छपा। जब वेद पाल उच्च न्यायालय के वारन्ट अफसर और पुलिस के साथ अपनी पत्नी को लेने ससुराल गया तो गांव की भीड़ ने उसे पीट-पीट कर मार दिया। अगर खाप द्वारा लोगों को न उकसाया होता तो वेद पाल का कत्ल नहीं होता। इस प्रकार की कई और मिसालें दी जा सकती हैं।

तू उन गाम में क्यों नहीं गया जहाँ बिलकुल ऐसी घटना होती हे हर खाप नहीं स?? लिस्ट में दूँ जावे तो

अगर खाप के मुखियों व उनके समर्थकों की दलील को सच भी मान लिया जाये तो भी एक अहम सवाल उठता है। खापें तुगलकी फरमानों और अमानवीय कृत्यों पर चुप क्यों रही हैं, उन्होंने इनकी भत्र्सना क्यों नहीं की? ये सब कृत्य खाप के नाम पर किये जाते रहे हैं। अगर खाप की इनमें कोई भूमिका नहीं रही तो खाप ने ऐसे फैसले लेने वाले लोगों का सामाजिक बहिष्कार क्यों नहीं किया और उन्हें दण्डित क्यों नहीं किया?

भाई जो घटना ऊपर बताई वैसी ही एक और घटना एक जाट लड़की के साथ हुई थी पास वाले गाम में हर सारे गाम में कोई चुसका भी कोणी न कोई पोलिसे कार्यवाई. ऊपर त सारे नु और कवे के ठीक करा. तो इसमें खाप का के रोल. ओड़े तो खाप स ही कोणी. तू इसे इसे मुद्हे क्यों नहीं उठाता. एड्रेस में दे दूंगा जावे तो.

अतीत में खापें न्याय के लिये लड़ती रही हैं। जब अलाउद्दीन खिलजी ने गंगा स्नान पर जजिया लगाया तो सर्वखाप पंचायत ने गढ़ गंगा पर इसके विरुद्घ मोर्चा लगाया था और तत्कालीन सरकार को यह कर वापस लेना पड़ा। 1857 में खाप के सूरमें अंग्रजों के खिलाफ लड़े और शहीद हुए। अब क्या हो गया कि हरियाणा की खापों की नाक के नीचे जुल्म हो रहे हैं और उन्हें सांप सूंघ गया है, खाप के चौधरी चुप्पी साधे रहते हैं।
हकीकत यह है कि वर्तमान खाप संस्था पर इस प्रकार के लोग काबिज हो गये हैं जो अपनी निजी रंजिश निकालने और ग्रामीण समाज पर अपना गलबा कायम रखने के लिये ऊलजलूल फैसले लेते रहते हैं।
आजकल हरियाणा की खापों की मुख्य मांग यह है कि विवाह अधिनियम 1955 में संशोधन करके सगोत्र विवाह, उसी गांव में विवाह और पड़ोस में विवाह पर प्रतिबंध लगाया जाए। स्वयं हरियाणा में हिसार से आगे अनेक गांव हैं जहां जाटों और बिश्नोइयों के गांवों में उसी गांव में विवाह की प्रथा है। हरियाणा के प्रसिद्घ गांव चौटाला में 200 से अधिक शादियां उसी गांव में हुई हैं। यह गांव अपवाद नहीं है। एक बहुत बड़ा क्षेत्र है जहां खाप की व्यवस्था नहीं है। हरियाणा में हिसार, फतेहबाद, सिरसा, पंजाब के अबोहर-फाजिल्का का इलाका, राजस्थान में गंगानगर, बीकानेर, जैसलमेर व बाड़मेर जिले-एक बहुत विशाल क्षेत्र है जहंा खाप संस्था नहीं है और वहां जाटों के गांव में उसी गांव में विवाह की प्रथा का प्रचलन है। अगर कानून में बदलाव किया जाता है तो इसका यह अभिप्राय हुआ कि देशवाली जाटों के लिये एक कानून और बागडिय़ों और बिश्नोइयों के लिये दूसरा कानून। कौन देशवाली है और कौन बागड़ी, इसका फैसला कौन करेगा? हिसार व फतेहबाद जिलों में ऐसे कई गांव हैं जहां दोनों देशवाली व बागड़ी जाट आबाद हैं।
पड़ोस और भाईचारे वाले गोत्रों के विवाह पर रोक की मांग तो बिल्कुल बेतुकी है। आज के युग में जबकि सारी दुनिया एक ‘ग्लोबल विलेजÓ मानी जाती है, पड़ोस की बात करना बिल्कुल फिजूल है। गांव में जितने गोत्र हैं, उस गोत्र की लड़की बाहर से भी बहु बनकर उस गांव में नहीं आ सकती। इस परम्परा की वर्तमान युग में कोई प्रासंगिकता नहीं है। खाप क्षेत्र में कई ऐसे गांव है जहां एक दर्जन या इससे भी अधिक गोत्र वाले जाट आबाद हैं। समचाना गांव में जाटों के 15 गोत्र हैं। विवाह के लिये यह सब गोत्र टाले जाएं और पड़ोस में भी रिश्ता नहीं हो सकता। फिर जाटों के बहुत से गोत्र हैं जिनमें भाईचारा माना जाता है, जैसा कि दलाल, मान, देशवाल, सुहाग इत्यादि और उनमें भी रिश्ता नहीं हो सकता। अगर इन सब वर्जनाओं को माना जाए जो जाटों को रिश्तों के लिये विदेश जाना पड़ेगा।
जहां तक सगोत्र विवाह का सवाल है, जाटों में ऐसा विवाह कहीं भी नहीं होता। सारे हरियाणा में सगोत्र विवाह की कैथल जिले के किरोड़ा गांव के मनोज व बबली की एक घटना है। कोई दूसरी मिसाल हरियाणा में नहीं मिलती। किरोड़ा की घटना एक अपवाद है और कानून में जो भी परिवर्तन हो, ऐसे अपवाद होते रहेंगे। जोड़े भागते रहेंगे। जरूरत पडऩे पर धर्म परिवर्तन करके विवाह कर लेंगे-इस्लाम व बौद्घ धर्म में गोत नात का लफड़ा नहीं है। फिर उच्चतम न्यायालय का फैसला है कि वयस्क लड़का व लड़की विवाह के बिना भी साथ रह सकते हैं। अगर ऐसे मामलों में खाप या जातीय पंचायत हिंसा पर उतरती है तो कानून अपना कार्य करेगा जैसा कि मनोज व बबली के हत्यारों के साथ हुआ।
जाहिर है कि सगोत्र विवाह पर प्रतिबंध लगाने से समस्या का कोई हल नहीं होगा। समस्याएं कुछ और हैं जिनसे खाप के मुखियों का दूर का भी वास्ता नहीं लगता। ग्रामीण समाज तेजी से बदल रहा है। इस बदलाव के साथ परम्पराओं में भी तबदीली आनी चाहिए। समय की मांग के अनुसार अगर परम्पराओं में परिवर्तन नहीं होता तो परम्पराएं सड़ांध मारने लग जाती हैं और समाज पर बोझ बन जाती हैं। परम्पराओं और आधुनिकता में सही तालमेल बिठाया जाना चाहिए। जिसके लिये खाप के मध्यकालीन युग की सोच के लोग तैयार नहीं हैं।
आज ग्रामीण समाज में गहरा संकट है। भ्रूण हत्या एक गहरी समस्या है। हरियाणा में लिंग अनुपात (861=1000) भारत में ही नहीं, सारी दुनिया में सबसे कम है। हर बड़े गांव में सैंकड़ों नौजवानों की शादियां नहीं हो रहीं। रिश्तों पर तरह-तरह की बंदिशें इस समस्या को और गहन बना रही हैं। एक सर्वेक्षण के अनुसार महिलाओं की पूर्ति के लिये दूरदराज प्रदेशों से साल में लगभग 10,000 लड़कियां हरियाणा में लाकर बेची जाती हैं। उनकी जात व गोत्र कोई नहीं पूछता। एक अच्छी भैंस खरीदने के लिये 60 से 70 हजार रुपये खर्च करने पड़ते हैं। एक अच्छी लड़की 10 से 15 हजार में मिल जाती है। कई मामलों में मर्द अपनी हवस पूरी होने पर ऐसी पत्नी को आगे बेच देता है। समाज का अमानवीयकरण हो रहा है।
नई पीढ़ी में भारी भटकाव है। नशाखोरी बढ़ रही है।

Can you or other enlightened soul tell me why haryana has skewed sex ratio?

Are these sex ratio differ in khap dominated area?

Does jats has poor sex ratio than other community?

Why mostly people living in USA/Chennai/Bombay/delhi/Sirsa or other far away areas oppose khaps? Khaps system doesnt affect them anyway. Isnt it obvious that If khaps are bad than people from khap dominated land should oppose them. Are they too scared to oppose?

He can be contacted at chaudhrydr AT rediffmail DOT com for comments/discussion.

माणसइए, I can be contacted here on jatland. Pahle ye jawab de pher aage ki bataunga.


Akhiri bat Khap amendment ke liye sgotra ko hi age rakh rahi he. Bhaichara nahi include kar rahi.
Har sun ek bat aur hisar me to log ase bhi he jo 70 gaam chode hen baya ke liye. Bera s tamne is bat ka??


Jahan khap nahi he niyam vahan bhi yahi hen vahan gaam har samudaye ke bade bhude ye fasle karte hen.

Tamne to gaal ki gaal me baya kar rakha s tere kaunsi khap aagi jo itne bidak raye so

 

[fateh]

Raviji,

1. I am not sure why you are telling me about his seniority. I have not talked to him in a disrespectful language.

2. This is the first time I have seen Sunni used for Dear Son. I have only heard of Sunni in Shia-Sunni terms. Anyways, I didn't raise any objections on his usage of that term. Thanks for clarifying what it meant.

3. I had misspelt Fatehji as Fatheji. Genuine typing mistake that I have since corrected. Incidentally, you have also misspelt Kharb as Kharab.

4. This last point is general and not directed at anyone specific. Respecting the elderly and their experience are universal cultural phenomenona, not restricted to India or to Jats. A person's age, achievements and position does convey to an extent his authority of the subject. However, it should not mean that the views are considered as sacrosanct. The argument should still be debated on merit and logic. As I grow old and hopefully add a few points to my CV, I hope I can come to a discussion without my status/age/achievements/position coloring my tone/texture/logic. I think that'd be a true test of character.

Thanks and Regards.

Mr Dalal, I am sorry if my adressing you as my son offeneded you, may be due to oversight. Brother, when I said very clearly that I agree with all other points which not contradicted by me than where is doubt or poin of further clearification left, anyway point noted for future compliance please.

 

[fateh]

And respect should be mutual Although I am not touchy but usually there a reaction when somone is instigagted to do so..

I fully agree with your this view and I am strong supporter of this view my dear Dev, please read your post no 395 again and think about yourself, donnot you think, all of us know all this. WHAT DO YOU THINK THAT YOU KEEP ON DISRESPECTING OTHERS AND THEY MUST BE RESPECTFUL TO YOU, is this the meaning of mutual respect in your eyes, Let any brother read our posts on this thread starting from 365 on wards & give them judgement as to who disrespected whom.

 

[cooljat]

.

Wondering if anybody heard about Hooda's recent statement regarding Khaps, intra-gotra and Honor killings; hv a look -

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/k...gs-its-the-kin-of-the-victims-who-do/633101/0


DK Singh: What is your stance on the khaps’ demand for amendments in the Hindu Marriage Act?
Khaps are informal social organisations like NGOs—if they do good, it’s appreciated, but nobody is allowed to take law into their hands.

Maneesh Chhibber: How do you plan to rein them in?
There is some misunderstanding. Khap panchayats are very different from honour killings. Khap panchayats do not have any say in honour killings, it’s the kin of the victims who do. Khaps have existed historically. Even the HMA has a clause which prohibits marriage within five generations on the father’s side and three generations on the mother’s. Not marrying within the gotra is a custom being followed and customary laws have their own strength. The other practice is that there should be no marriage within the same village—recently a Jharkhand girl was killed for the same reason, but there are no khaps there.
Coomi Kapoor: When Capt Amarinder Singh came a few weeks ago, he said that the degree of relations within which one is not supposed to marry needs a relook, since there were some villages where women could not marry at all.
As far as I know, we used to leave four gotras—our own, our mother’s, and both the grandmothers’. Aaj kal log nani ka gotra nahi chhodte hain aur kahin kahin dadi ka bhi nahi choodte hain. I am not for intra-gotra marriage, but no one should take law into their hands.





Cheers
Jit

 

[fateh]

.

Wondering if anybody heard about Hooda's recent statement regarding Khaps, intra-gotra and Honor killings; hv a look -

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/k...gs-its-the-kin-of-the-victims-who-do/633101/0


DK Singh: What is your stance on the khaps’ demand for amendments in the Hindu Marriage Act?
Khaps are informal social organisations like NGOs—if they do good, it’s appreciated, but nobody is allowed to take law into their hands.

Maneesh Chhibber: How do you plan to rein them in?
There is some misunderstanding. Khap panchayats are very different from honour killings. Khap panchayats do not have any say in honour killings, it’s the kin of the victims who do. Khaps have existed historically. Even the HMA has a clause which prohibits marriage within five generations on the father’s side and three generations on the mother’s. Not marrying within the gotra is a custom being followed and customary laws have their own strength. The other practice is that there should be no marriage within the same village—recently a Jharkhand girl was killed for the same reason, but there are no khaps there.
Coomi Kapoor: When Capt Amarinder Singh came a few weeks ago, he said that the degree of relations within which one is not supposed to marry needs a relook, since there were some villages where women could not marry at all.
As far as I know, we used to leave four gotras—our own, our mother’s, and both the grandmothers’. Aaj kal log nani ka gotra nahi chhodte hain aur kahin kahin dadi ka bhi nahi choodte hain. I am not for intra-gotra marriage, but no one should take law into their hands.




Cheers
Jit

Mr jit, I think, Hooda sahab is right, a positive & proper reply, thanks to mr hooda

 

[rakeshsehrawat]

We Indians Are very Poor and backward and even among Indians Jats are at tail end (Except few with british flag on their underwear) God knows how much time we are gonna take to avoid such things like Bawal on intercaste marriages and Honour killings. But my dear friends is there any country where there is no honour killing?
Ude bhi khap fatwe jari karke aati hogi

 

[rakeshsehrawat]

http://www1.voanews.com/english/news/a-13-2009-05-21-voa39-68815262.html

Number of Honor Killings in Europe Higher Than Thought


A report compiled by the Council of Europe warns that the killings of women by family members to protect their so-called honor is far more extensive in Europe than previously believed. The report was published by the council's gender equality committee at a meeting in Istanbul.

The draft report calls for immediate action to deal with what it describes as the growing problem of honor killings. British member of parliament John Austin, prepared the report.

"Here in Turkey the figures for 2007 show that over 200 women were killed here in the name of family or community honor, and that is frankly unacceptable in a modern Europe," Austin said. "And it's just the tip of the iceberg: In the United Kingdom; in Germany; in Belgium; in France; in Norway, there is evidence of honor crimes and honor killings."

The report says one of the key steps in combating violence against women is legislation. Jose Mendes Bota is the chair of Portugal's parliamentary committee on violence against women.

"We need that a common standard should be established, a minimum standard, its not acceptable they are member states of the Council of Europe that still do not consider domestic violence or violence against women as a specific crime that should be condemned," Bota. "We have been doing that in Portugal , we made quite a few (eds: bit of) progress."

The Portuguese parliament is currently considering introducing sweeping reforms to crack down on violence against women. Turkey which is hosting the two-day Council of Europe meeting, and which hopes to join the European Union, many times has been criticized over its treatment of women.

That's Turkey's former Minister of Women's Affairs and current Minister of Education Nimet Cubukcu, addressing the conference. She explains the steps her government has taken to introduce harsher penalties for honor crimes. She says, in the past, when a murder was committed in the name of honor, this was considered a mitigating factor in sentencing. But today honor crimes receive a stiffer penalty than other cases of murder.

Such steps are seen by the Council of Europe members as an important step forward. But Ingrida Circene, vice chairperson of the Committee of Equal Opportunities for Women and Men, says legislation is only the first step.

"We have to work with authorities and with NGO's because they are more close with these people and then we have to make possible for victims, for these women to go to shelters," Circene said. "And so we have to organize from our side. We have to make budget resources."

The meeting outlined seven measures that should be taken to combat honor crimes and other forms of violence against women. They include education and providing shelters for women. Observers say that will be welcome news for women's rights campaigners in Turkey, who criticized the government for failing to increase the number of shelters for abused women. For a population of over 70 million there are only 52 shelters.

 

[nitindev]

विदेशों की बात तो छोड़ दो, अपने ही देश में शेहेरों में और कई प्रदेशों में "egoistic muders" जैसी कोई विचारधारा नहीं है...