Political fate of Jat Leaders

[singhvp]

While not all are neo-feudal leaders, some of them certainly exist. I totally agree with you that these bunch of neo-feudal leaders have divided the community for their on selfish interests. The problem is how the society can identify them, are there any specific characteristics associated with them? Examples would help.

Arvind the list of neo-feudals is not very long. For example, if we talk about politics of our own State/Area, there are only a few families who have been running the roost. If you want me to name, I have no hesitation in giving the same. 1. Chautala Clan, Bansilal Clan, Hooda Clan, Virender Singh Clan, Surjewala Clan, Bhajan lal Clan (of course from other community) and there may be some more. Similarly in other States,there are few clans who have been at the helm of political affairs of Jat community. In UP Ch. Charan Singh Clan is another example. In Rajashthan, 2 Mirdha families (Ram Niwas & Nathu Ram) have been predominantly controlling political affairs of Jats for several decades. Our brothers from Rajashthan are, perhaps, in a better position to throw some light on that.

 

[amitdabas22]

The condition is the same everywhere in every state. There are a select few families who have been running the show for decades. its them or their cousins, brothers, chachas etc. They control the parties with the am'money'tion.
Any new entrants begin just like the IIT guys party and bite the dust soon unless they have some godfather.

 

[prashantacmet]

Arvind the list of neo-feudals is not very long. For example, if we talk about politics of our own State/Area, there are only a few families who have been running the roost. If you want me to name, I have no hesitation in giving the same. 1. Chautala Clan, Bansilal Clan, Hooda Clan, Virender Singh Clan, Surjewala Clan, Bhajan lal Clan (of course from other community) and there may be some more. Similarly in other States,there are few clans who have been at the helm of political affairs of Jat community. In UP Ch. Charan Singh Clan is another example. In Rajashthan, 2 Mirdha families (Ram Niwas & Nathu Ram) have been predominantly controlling political affairs of Jats for several decades. Our brothers from Rajashthan are, perhaps, in a better position to throw some light on that.

VP Singh ji, You again forgot Nehru-Gandhi family, who introduced this dynastic rule in democracy..

 

[singhvp]

VP Singh ji, You again forgot Nehru-Gandhi family, who introduced this dynastic rule in democracy..

Absulutely right Prashant, that family is the epitome of all dynasties. But I thought we are talking only about Jat dynasties. If you talk about dynasties all over India, the list will be very long.

 

[arvindc]

Arvind the list of neo-feudals is not very long. For example, if we talk about politics of our own State/Area, there are only a few families who have been running the roost. If you want me to name, I have no hesitation in giving the same. 1. Chautala Clan, Bansilal Clan, Hooda Clan, Virender Singh Clan, Surjewala Clan, Bhajan lal Clan (of course from other community) and there may be some more. Similarly in other States,there are few clans who have been at the helm of political affairs of Jat community. In UP Ch. Charan Singh Clan is another example. In Rajashthan, 2 Mirdha families (Ram Niwas & Nathu Ram) have been predominantly controlling political affairs of Jats for several decades. Our brothers from Rajashthan are, perhaps, in a better position to throw some light on that.

We can not blindly typecast some one as neo-feudal just because his father and forefathers have been in politics. If you believe that there is some truth in the saying "leaders are not made but born" then there is more probability of leaders in the genetic hierarchy.

On the other hand, history has been a witness that leaders do not necessary produce leaders. In fact, there is a higher probability of the hierarchy (of a leaders dynasty) loosing touch base with the masses as they get a readymade cake without the need doing the hard work of going to the roots of masses and understanding them.

So we need more parameters to identify these neo-fedurals as the dynasty one alone is not sufficient.

 

[arvindc]

The condition is the same everywhere in every state. There are a select few families who have been running the show for decades. its them or their cousins, brothers, chachas etc. They control the parties with the am'money'tion.
Any new entrants begin just like the IIT guys party and bite the dust soon unless they have some godfather.

Agreed that it happens. The question is do we want this to continue? If not, are we doing anything to be a catalyst and change this?

 

[singhvp]

We can not blindly typecast some one as neo-feudal just because his father and forefathers have been in politics. If you believe that there is some truth in the saying "leaders are not made but born" then there is more probability of leaders in the genetic hierarchy.

On the other hand, history has been a witness that leaders do not necessary produce leaders. In fact, there is a higher probability of the hierarchy (of a leaders dynasty) loosing touch base with the masses as they get a readymade cake without the need doing the hard work of going to the roots of masses and understanding them.

So we need more parameters to identify these neo-fedurals as the dynasty one alone is not sufficient.

It was not a blind type-caste. It is very much evident from the track-record of the political hegemony being perpetuated by these few families from one generation to the next. There are very few who are born leaders, there are some who acquire leadership and there are plenty who have leadership thrust upon them. Man is a product of environment. Going by your statement those who are not born in a leader's family have some genetic deficiency rendering him/her unworthy of leadership. I don't see any logic in your statement because there are many people who have got better leadership qualities but could not make it due to this hierarchical malaise and non-availability of opportunities viz. money and muscle power which are playing a vital role in the present politics.

BTW, it is amazing that a person who has been a diehard supporter of avowed enemies of feudalism, the Moaists (under the thread walking with comrades) is now a die hard supporter of Feudalism. What a striking contrast and brazen contradiction!! Or is it a sudden change of heart?

I dont know other parameters to identify the neo-feudal lords except for their hierarchical identity. If you have some, please throw some light.

 

[arvindc]

It was not a blind type-caste. It is very much evident from the track-record of the political hegemony being perpetuated by these few families from one generation to the next. There are very few who are born leaders, there are some who acquire leadership and there are plenty who have leadership thrust upon them. Man is a product of environment. Going by your statement those who are not born in a leader's family have some genetic deficiency rendering him/her unworthy of leadership. I don't see any logic in your statement because there are many people who have got better leadership qualities but could not make it due to this hierarchical malaise and non-availability of opportunities viz. money and muscle power which are playing a vital role in the present politics.

BTW, it is amazing that a person who has been a diehard supporter of avowed enemies of feudalism, the Moaists (under the thread walking with comrades) is now a die hard supporter of Feudalism. What a striking contrast and brazen contradiction!! Or is it a sudden change of heart?

I dont know other parameters to identify the neo-feudal lords except for their hierarchical identity. If you have some, please throw some light.

No. no. nope! I am not a supporter of Feudalism. Let me summarize my last post again.

The point of last was that, dynasty hierarchy can not be the only criteria for typecasting someone as neo-feudal.

In the first paragraph what I have said is that as per a popular saying (there is some scientific evidence also), there is higher probability (then a similar other person) that a leader offspring would be a leader as genetically the offspring would be sharing some of the leaders qualities.

In the second paragraph I have stated that historically, leaders have not always been an offspring of a leader. A leader's sons/daughters would loose upon the understanding of the masses as he/she has not risen from the ground.

 

[singhvp]

No.

In the first paragraph what I have said is that as per a popular saying (there is some scientific evidence also), there is higher probability (then a similar other person) that a leader offspring would be a leader as genetically the offspring would be sharing some of the leaders qualities.
.

Paragraph one and two seem to contradict each other.

The higher probability perception has been defied by many successful leaders who rose from the grass root level. Some of the examples are leaders like, Ch. Chhotu Ram, Ch. Charan Singh, Ch. Devi lal, Ch. Bansi Lal, Sardar Patel, K. Kamraj, Abraham Lincoln, Lenin, Stalin, Mao Tse Tung, Nelson Mandela and even Hitler.

Going by your argument of genetic superiority, Baba Ramdev is also not supposed to have leadership qualities as his father was just an ordinary farmer. But you have somewhere supported his candidature as country's next steward.

originally written by Arvind......My take is leaders like Baba Ramdev should be given a chance.

 

[rkumar]

interesting topic. Congress culture will never support strong Jat leader and Jats like only strong leaders. This is the paradox. I will put my bet on Dr Jyoti Mirdha if she plays her cards well. I find her firm and tough. She has leadership qualities. She needs to get to grass root level outside Rajesthan as much as possible. I don't put much weight behind present Haryana leaders as Haryana political mass is too small and rarely make ripples outside state. UP politics is too complicated for any Jat to play big role in foreseeable future. As of today, I don't see any Jat leader who has pan-India even entire Jat-belt reach.

RK^2

 

[singhvp]

interesting topic. Congress culture will never support strong Jat leader and Jats like only strong leaders. This is the paradox. I will put my bet on Dr Jyoti Mirdha if she plays her cards well. I find her firm and tough. She has leadership qualities. She needs to get to grass root level outside Rajesthan as much as possible. I don't put much weight behind present Haryana leaders as Haryana political mass is too small and rarely make ripples outside state. UP politics is too complicated for any Jat to play big role in foreseeable future. As of today, I don't see any Jat leader who has pan-India even entire Jat-belt reach.

RK^2

Jyoti Mridha doesn't seem to be popular enough to be accepted beyond Rajasthan border. Is she the same Mridha, married to Krishana Gahlawat's son or some one else?

 

[rinkusheoran]

If you go in the jat politics then one person who was really a pan jat leader( infact for the whole farming community) was Ch Chhoturam Ohlyan, and no one from today genration could understand his thinkning and condtion has become so worse that his ideology is dying a slow death. If we consider Ch CharanSingh, Devila, baldevram mirdha , pratap kairon they all were tied to congress ideology infact ch charan singh always praised the congress ideology( that is why in Up we can see Jats wearing the cap instead of pagri n same was the case with Ch Bansilal legha was of same lineage in ideology..i dont want to get into this).Ajit singh has lost the credibility if take the Jats outside UP becasue of the his support of congrees n BJP every now n then.

Ch charan Sigh used to say he does not believe in casteism in he believes in gandhism( n correct me if i m wrong --to prove this he married his children outside the caste n for bansilalji it happended without his choice).

After whoso ever become the Cm( be it amrinder/hooda) or who called themselves JAt leaders( who could not became CM( virneder ,surjewala,mirdhas) from congress they were just the manager of delhi who took jat votes for granted and trying wooing other caste( ( what was the need for Ajit son to go to mulayam rally in the by election, why why devilal supported the mulayam for the CM post when against Charan Singh???). After this they started finding ways to bring there children in the politics and it is continuing till date and will remain like this.

In rajsthan all the time we have around 40 mla from jat community but but we are yet to see a CM ( raje was married to JAT , she became only once) whereas gehlot being a saini who mla are not more then 5 but still became the CM for the 2nd time just because of the jealousy of Jat leader among themselves.

I think political awareness is the necessity and to know the value of there vote is very important in democracy, in india around 70 constituencies are there where JAT vote decide the fate of MP but how many do we have? it is because of the way we vote, it is not about the fate of politicais but the what is the fate of JAT So in my views what we need is to do the tactical voting and hope everyvote that a jat exercise whould get counted and then only the Jat will Chaudhary otherwise Naam k aagey hi reh jayega aane wale time.

 

[rinkusheoran]

If you want me to name, I have no hesitation in giving the same. Bhajan lal Clan (of course from other community) .

Bhaisahab naam lene mein hesitation kis baat ki?
Bhajanlal bhi manjhu got ka jaat hi hai ye alag baat log usse mante, Do some search on him you will find that.

 

[jagdeepchd]

Hi Rinku..yes this is the state of the jat politics, but its not due to lack of political awareness amongst the jats. Its just that the jat political leaders spanning across UP, Haryana, Punjab and Rajasthan shy away from coming on a common platform and form a united jat front. The two basic reasons, as I believe, for such a state is (1) "Mucch", main bada or one upmanship, which is a typical trait of our community ( a few readers may not like this but its a fact ) , and (2) is the fear of losing political ground as a united front will dilute one,s status. Secondly, as you have rightly said, the present few jat political families are more busy into consolidating their hold by amassing more clout/money power and pushing their next generation into politics with very little concern for the community.
Another thing I would like to add here is that the place of jats in the present national political parties is more because of necessity on their part so that they can pit us jat brethern against each other knowing our trait very well. Rinku I feel that we fall short on the diplomacy front too, why I am saying this is that on an average nearly 20 % of the officers in the Indian Army are jats, but till today not a single jat has become the army chief, why ? because somewhere during the career course we fall short on our diplomacy, OR we get screwed because of our non-adherence to today,s norms of chaplusi ,etc. otherwise jats are the best soldiers.

If you go in the jat politics then one person who was really a pan jat leader( infact for the whole farming community) was Ch Chhoturam Ohlyan, and no one from today genration could understand his thinkning and condtion has become so worse that his ideology is dying a slow death. If we consider Ch CharanSingh, Devila, baldevram mirdha , pratap kairon they all were tied to congress ideology infact ch charan singh always praised the congress ideology( that is why in Up we can see Jats wearing the cap instead of pagri n same was the case with Ch Bansilal legha was of same lineage in ideology..i dont want to get into this).Ajit singh has lost the credibility if take the Jats outside UP becasue of the his support of congrees n BJP every now n then.

Ch charan Sigh used to say he does not believe in casteism in he believes in gandhism( n correct me if i m wrong --to prove this he married his children outside the caste n for bansilalji it happended without his choice).

After whoso ever become the Cm( be it amrinder/hooda) or who called themselves JAt leaders( who could not became CM( virneder ,surjewala,mirdhas) from congress they were just the manager of delhi who took jat votes for granted and trying wooing other caste( ( what was the need for Ajit son to go to mulayam rally in the by election, why why devilal supported the mulayam for the CM post when against Charan Singh???). After this they started finding ways to bring there children in the politics and it is continuing till date and will remain like this.

In rajsthan all the time we have around 40 mla from jat community but but we are yet to see a CM ( raje was married to JAT , she became only once) whereas gehlot being a saini who mla are not more then 5 but still became the CM for the 2nd time just because of the jealousy of Jat leader among themselves.

I think political awareness is the necessity and to know the value of there vote is very important in democracy, in india around 70 constituencies are there where JAT vote decide the fate of MP but how many do we have? it is because of the way we vote, it is not about the fate of politicais but the what is the fate of JAT So in my views what we need is to do the tactical voting and hope everyvote that a jat exercise whould get counted and then only the Jat will Chaudhary otherwise Naam k aagey hi reh jayega aane wale time.

 

[rinkusheoran]

Jagdeep,

I never see anything wrong with the leaders because people only get the govt they deserve. Kyunki bhai aadey dynasties ya unke barein mein bura bol dene se kaam na chalta kuch ground pe karna padega tabhi kuch ho skata hai.

let me put some light when i say it is becasue of political awareness or knowing the power of votes because i dont see anything wrong with leader because vo ek alag hi jati hai. I ll take a example of UP. Ch Charan Singh was there and he was one the stalwart that we had in Jat politics and then came the Ch Mahender Singh tikait and Jats in UP voted for him and in this way jat of up splited and now they only( mostly) vote for Ch Ajit singh fearing if they will vote for anyone they will not have even Ajit singhji, from where it came? this is because of the our foresightedness or for that matter awareness not because jats leaders not coming on common platform. this has been discussed in past as well Jat need to do tactical voting wherever their votes decide the outcome because in haryana we have around 50-60 constituency where our vote is deciding factor but howmany mlas we have only 27 similarly we have arond 60-70 MP constituencies but how many MP we have again around 25 ( karnal to haryana mein jat jyada hote huye bhi baan jitta hai wahan)why is it so. Political leader will never come together because they have to earn their bread n butter but it will give them a signal if start woting like that and to others also fir Jat leaders hi nahi dusri jat wale bhi leader jat khatir kaam karan lag janegy.

One more point After we vote them they are free to do whatever they want for the next 5 years( till the next election), people dont question them just because of their pity self interest( jo kabhi kaam hote bhi nahi)..once that will happen and make them accountable for what they are doing, whom they are supporting after you vote for them. Democracy is not about exercising your vote it is also about knowing your vote power.

 

[prashantacmet]

If you go in the jat politics then one person who was really a pan jat leader( infact for the whole farming community) was Ch Chhoturam Ohlyan, and no one from today genration could understand his thinkning and condtion has become so worse that his ideology is dying a slow death. If we consider Ch CharanSingh, Devila, baldevram mirdha , pratap kairon they all were tied to congress ideology infact ch charan singh always praised the congress ideology( that is why in Up we can see Jats wearing the cap instead of pagri n same was the case with Ch Bansilal legha was of same lineage in ideology..i dont want to get into this).Ajit singh has lost the credibility if take the Jats outside UP becasue of the his support of congrees n BJP every now n then.

Ch charan Sigh used to say he does not believe in casteism in he believes in gandhism( n correct me if i m wrong --to prove this he married his children outside the caste n for bansilalji it happended without his choice).

After whoso ever become the Cm( be it amrinder/hooda) or who called themselves JAt leaders( who could not became CM( virneder ,surjewala,mirdhas) from congress they were just the manager of delhi who took jat votes for granted and trying wooing other caste( ( what was the need for Ajit son to go to mulayam rally in the by election, why why devilal supported the mulayam for the CM post when against Charan Singh???). After this they started finding ways to bring there children in the politics and it is continuing till date and will remain like this.

In rajsthan all the time we have around 40 mla from jat community but but we are yet to see a CM ( raje was married to JAT , she became only once) whereas gehlot being a saini who mla are not more then 5 but still became the CM for the 2nd time just because of the jealousy of Jat leader among themselves.

I think political awareness is the necessity and to know the value of there vote is very important in democracy, in india around 70 constituencies are there where JAT vote decide the fate of MP but how many do we have? it is because of the way we vote, it is not about the fate of politicais but the what is the fate of JAT So in my views what we need is to do the tactical voting and hope everyvote that a jat exercise whould get counted and then only the Jat will Chaudhary otherwise Naam k aagey hi reh jayega aane wale time.

Mr. rinku sheoran, you are again opening pandora box. It will be wise if you plz don't comment on Chaudhary charan singh and "topi of UP jaats". For your kind info, chaudhary charan singh versus chaudhary chotu ram ji has been discussed here many times. Chaudhary charan singh was undoubtedly the greatest farmer leader India has ever produced. Chaudhary chotu ram was a Jat Kisan leader and chaudhary charn singh was accepted by entire Kisan community. Do you remember "AZGAR"? ( He is ranked above Chaudary chotu ram, Though I respect both of them but you guys don't leave even a single chance to humiliate chaudhary sahab )

 

[raka]

Mr. rinku sheoran, you are again opening pandora box. It will be wise if you plz don't comment on Chaudhary charan singh and "topi of UP jaats". For your kind info, chaudhary charan singh versus chaudhary chotu ram ji has been discussed here many times. Chaudhary charan singh was undoubtedly the greatest farmer leader India has ever produced. Chaudhary chotu ram was a Jat Kisan leader and chaudhary charn singh was accepted by entire Kisan community. Do you remember "AZGAR"? ( He is ranked above Chaudary chotu ram, Though I respect both of them but you guys don't leave even a single chance to humiliate chaudhary sahab )

khub muqabla kara bhai taine bi .

 

[jagdeepchd]

Mr. rinku sheoran, you are again opening pandora box. It will be wise if you plz don't comment on Chaudhary charan singh and "topi of UP jaats". For your kind info, chaudhary charan singh versus chaudhary chotu ram ji has been discussed here many times. Chaudhary charan singh was undoubtedly the greatest farmer leader India has ever produced. Chaudhary chotu ram was a Jat Kisan leader and chaudhary charn singh was accepted by entire Kisan community. Do you remember "AZGAR"? ( He is ranked above Chaudary chotu ram, Though I respect both of them but you guys don't leave even a single chance to humiliate chaudhary sahab )

RinkuThis is what I meant by saying that we jats find it difficult to come on to a common platform when we are still stuck up in" mhara neta ki mucch/puuch badi thi" syndrome, why can,t we accept that both Sir Chotu Ram and Choudhary saab were stalwarts of their respective eras and look towards the future.

 

[jagdeepchd]

khub muqabla kara bhai taine bi .

Raka ji..yo apas ka muqabla aur uske chatkare hi humne ek na hon deve

 

[singhvp]

RinkuThis is what I meant by saying that we jats find it difficult to come on to a common platform when we are still stuck up in" mhara neta ki mucch/puuch badi thi" syndrome, why can,t we accept that both Sir Chhotu Ram and Choudhary saab were stalwarts of their respective eras and look towards the future.

There were lot of similarities between these two great leaders (Ch. Chhotu Ram and Ch. Charan Singh). Both were persons of high integrity and clear vision, self-made with humble background, well educated sophisticated human beings, and above all messiah of farming community. Both were respectable leaders in their own right and there can be no comparison between them. Unfortunately, there has been a lot of degeneration in Jat politics after the era of these two leaders.