Those guilty of "Within Gotra" marriage should be ostrasized by JAT's... Yes or No ?

[drrajpalsingh]

......अब एक ऑप्शन है की असेप्ट कर लो इस ने , अर चुप रहो सब

दूसरा है की हो हल्ला मचाओ , और कई लोग इस होनर कीलिग ने भी सोचे है

दोणु ही गलत है ,
एक ही हल है की समाज मे कुछ करा जा , किसी तरह इस एक गोत शादी पे अंकुश लाया जा
इतना आसान नहीं है , ग्राउंड पे भौत कुछ करने की जरूरत है .....

Friend You have settled the issue in a very befitting matter pointing out both sides of the coin.

Under the wave of emergence of globalisation of economy and influence of media, a strong urge for turning to newer life styles and relationship is fast emerging throughout the world and India is no exception to this.
Therefore to keep the cultural moors, values, traditions and conventions intact is a big challenge everywhere as they are being re-read/revised or re-evaluated in every sphere of family life.

People need to know what sort of changes have emerged in the relations of blood relatives: Brother-sister, mother/father-son/daughter, wife- husband, grandparents-grandsons/granddaughters et all. It is true that all gumut of the social values morals or ethos has/had evolved over the years to safe guard the smooth functioning of various units of family and social life in which additions and deletions have always been made throughout the ages to suit it to the contemporary needs of the society world over.
You have rightly concluded that the issue in hand is going to assume wider dimensions and to give it proper direction, both pro-changers and anti-changers have to make great efforts to arrive at an amicable solution acceptable to all. This needs open heart discussion, debate and enlightenment moves spread over long periods of time for all concerned.

Since the Jats have emerged as staunch lovers of democracy throughout the ages, they are still capable to settle the issue in a democratic method. That is all. But the million dollar question remains: who would 'bell' the proverbial 'cat' to start this healthy discussion.

Thanks

 

[swaich]

Now we are talking. See when you say family didn’t educate them. Who are them?? So far there is only one case of same gotra which I know. These things were known to them i assume as they are not special rules they are just obvious unless you are living in foreign land. Now you say this custom has created enough problems?? What are your basis?? Aren’t you talking without knowing the realities?
Only one case and you saying that it has causes enough problems?

Now i asked you before what is your logic of not marrying your cousin? You mentioned upbringing?? Let’s say your mother forget to tell you that you cannot marry cousin and you happen to marry your cousin (by you I don’t mean yourself). What will your family do here? Sometime in such cases family take extreme steps as killing to save their face or disown the kids. Now even if your family would have told you this still you decide to marry your cousin this is also possible in this case you blame the upbringing or the sick individual . So this should be looked at case by case basis. We have seen recently in news a French national raped his daughter. I mean there are all sort of people out there just because one or two of them you don’t go and change or blame the whole set up. In fact the set up is there to control these sort of people. 99.9% of Jats appreciate this set of rules and it’s the whole base of our society. You don’t have sisterly love for your sister because of science but it is because of these society made set of rules.

I know of more than one case for sure and I am sure others too. So you are saying there's no need for debate since 99.9% of Jats agree with this custom. Fine if that floats your boat. Apparently all the media cases are just an attempt to malign a community, as always!

 

[rekhasmriti]

Customs are meant for the benefit of the society
they need to be updated with time

aise custom ka kya karna- which would lead to many broken houses -and killing

Now we are talking. See when you say family didn’t educate them. Who are them?? So far there is only one case of same gotra which I know. These things were known to them i assume as they are not special rules they are just obvious unless you are living in foreign land. Now you say this custom has created enough problems?? What are your basis?? Aren’t you talking without knowing the realities?
Only one case and you saying that it has causes enough problems?

Now i asked you before what is your logic of not marrying your cousin? You mentioned upbringing?? Let’s say your mother forget to tell you that you cannot marry cousin and you happen to marry your cousin (by you I don’t mean yourself). What will your family do here? Sometime in such cases family take extreme steps as killing to save their face or disown the kids. Now even if your family would have told you this still you decide to marry your cousin this is also possible in this case you blame the upbringing or the sick individual . So this should be looked at case by case basis. We have seen recently in news a French national raped his daughter. I mean there are all sort of people out there just because one or two of them you don’t go and change or blame the whole set up. In fact the set up is there to control these sort of people. 99.9% of Jats appreciate this set of rules and it’s the whole base of our society. You don’t have sisterly love for your sister because of science but it is because of these society made set of rules.

 

[virj]

I know of more than one case for sure and I am sure others too. So you are saying there's no need for debate since 99.9% of Jats agree with this custom. Fine if that floats your boat. Apparently all the media cases are just an attempt to malign a community, as always!

I dont want to prolong it just based on your hypothetical examples. Show me the media reports for same gotra marriages first.

 

[swaich]

I dont want to prolong it just based on your hypothetical examples. Show me the media reports for same gotra marriages first.

Are these four cases enough?

Case 1 Gehlawat case

Case 2 Manoj-Babli case

Case 3: Rathi Khap Panchayat of Asanda, Jhajjar

Case 4: Kavita and Pawan, Karnal

You can decide to close your eyes and claim everything is fine or discuss the issue and find ways to resolve it. The choice is yours.

1. Same-gotra mariages have no negative effect and hence cant be banned on any grounds. If customs are the only obstacles then customs need to be changed.
2. Khaps have no right to excommunicate or pass judgement that leads to ostracism or death of people. They are an extra-judicial social set up, nothing else.

 

[samarkadian]

Are these four cases enough?

Case 1 Gehlawat case

Case 2 Manoj-Babli case

Case 3: Rathi Khap Panchayat of Asanda, Jhajjar

Case 4: Kavita and Pawan, Karnal

You can decide to close your eyes and claim everything is fine or discuss the issue and find ways to resolve it. The choice is yours.

1. Same-gotra mariages have no negative effect and hence cant be banned on any grounds. If customs are the only obstacles then customs need to be changed.
2. Khaps have no right to excommunicate or pass judgement that leads to ostracism or death of people. They are an extra-judicial social set up, nothing else.

Why is there a need to change for few incests ?

These incests have full right to come back in village and do all dhok-pooja and that supposed to be revered with big garlands if not axes?

Is it right or ethical to call your sister your bhabhi or your beti as your bahu just because Sh*t Supreme court says?

If all that is right then it is better to stick with the wrong.

 

[swaich]

Why is there a need to change for few incests ?

These incests have full right to come back in village and do all dhok-pooja and that supposed to be revered with big garlands if not axes?

Is it right or ethical to call your sister your bhabhi or your beti as your bahu just because Sh*t Supreme court says?

If all that is right then it is better to stick with the wrong.

A few? People died, families were lost and folks sent to jail. What would it take to sit up and take notice? A 1000 deaths?

And can you explain how same-gotra marriage is incest? I know you cant do that scientifically, so are you going to hold on to the crutches of customs and traditions?

 

[samarkadian]

A few? People died, families were lost and folks sent to jail. What would it take to sit up and take notice? A 1000 deaths?

And can you explain how same-gotra marriage is incest? I know you cant do that scientifically, so are you going to hold on to the crutches of customs and traditions?

Yes a few. They died because they were destined to. Let it be 10,000 or more. Who cares about weed?

So you rely on cut copy paste sort of just 60 years old borrowed constitution headed by morons? I don't.

Can you marry a Swaich girl? If not why?

 

[virj]

Are these four cases enough?

Case 1 Gehlawat case

Case 2 Manoj-Babli case

Case 3: Rathi Khap Panchayat of Asanda, Jhajjar

Case 4: Kavita and Pawan, Karnal

You can decide to close your eyes and claim everything is fine or discuss the issue and find ways to resolve it. The choice is yours.

1. Same-gotra mariages have no negative effect and hence cant be banned on any grounds. If customs are the only obstacles then customs need to be changed.
2. Khaps have no right to excommunicate or pass judgement that leads to ostracism or death of people. They are an extra-judicial social set up, nothing else.

Put same gotra in google and copy paste here? case 1 not same gotra, case 3 not same gotra, case 4 not enough info. case 2 i knew before as the only same gotra. Do u really understand what are you talking about?

 

[swaich]

Yes a few. They died because they were destined to. Let it be 10,000 or more. Who cares about weed?

Probably the parents and families of those who dies think the same as you, right?

So you rely on cut copy paste sort of just 60 years old borrowed constitution headed by morons? I don't.

No, I rely on 3 years of hard work of condensing local and globally accepted laws into one big constitution done by a very able man called Ambedkar along with a crack team. He probably did more for the country than all the members here put together.

Can you marry a Swaich girl? If not why?

If I wasn't married already, I can after ascertaining if there is no know common ancestor in the last 3-4 generations. Quick, call the Siwach Sarv Khap!

 

[swaich]

Put same gotra in google and copy paste here? case 1 not same gotra, case 3 not same gotra, case 4 not enough info. case 2 i knew before as the only same gotra. Do u really understand what are you talking about?

The same-gotra logic was used. "These two gotras are supposed to be related, so dont marry with each other!"

 

[virj]

If I wasn't married already, I can after ascertaining if there is no know common ancestor in the last 3-4 generations. Quick, call the Siwach Sarv Khap!

यानि अपने सड़ दादे की छोरी त ब्याह कर सके हे तू फेर तेरा के जिक्र भाई ?

 

[virj]

The same-gotra logic was used. "These two gotras are supposed to be related, so dont marry with each other!"

Same gotra is same gotra there is no other logic. Bhaichara norms and guhand are diff. I dont think you have any basic understanding.

 

[samarkadian]

Probably the parents and families of those who dies think the same as you, right?

Again, who cares.

No, I rely on 3 years of hard work of condensing local and globally accepted laws into one big constitution done by a very able man called Ambedkar along with a crack team. He probably did more for the country than all the members here put together.

That was a hard work? really? How that genius can turn a blind eye to North Indian thousand's years practiced traditions? Your standards of rating are quite low Gentleman.

If I wasn't married already, I can after ascertaining if there is no know common ancestor in the last 3-4 generations. Quick, call the Siwach Sarv Khap!

A little correction, Siwach could be a khap but not Sarv Khap. And yes if you marry, with all due respect shame on you!

 

[swaich]

Again, who cares.

Pretty convenient. Perhaps when it will hit closer home, you'd realize.

That was a hard work? really? How that genius can turn a blind eye to North Indian thousand's years practiced traditions? Your standards of rating are quite low Gentleman.

As compared to what? Yours? Who believes laws set hundreds of years ago and dont account for any changes in society since then?

A little correction, Siwach could be a khap but not Sarv Khap. And yes if you marry, with all due respect shame on you!

Thank for the correction. Reach them yet?

Perhaps the one who should be ashamed is the one who condones the deaths of people, just to justify his false beliefs.

 

[swaich]

यानि अपने सड़ दादे की छोरी त ब्याह कर सके हे तू फेर तेरा के जिक्र भाई ?

Whatever Sarh dada means. Does that mean you dont want to continue the discussion?

Same gotra is same gotra there is no other logic. Bhaichara norms and guhand are diff. I dont think you have any basic understanding.

Khaps still rule and pass draconic judgements based on Gotra linkages.The point stands.

 

[swaich]

I think we have reached a stage where we will probably resort to personal comments (we already have) if the discussion continues. Its best to avoid this thread unless someone brings up a new point/angle to the issue.

 

[cutejaatsandeep]

I think we have reached a stage where we will probably resort to personal comments (we already have) if the discussion continues. Its best to avoid this thread unless someone brings up a new point/angle to the issue.

the way u are talking 1 thing i can definately make out that you are not a jat...a jat can do anythin in this world but he'll never marry in his own gotra....some times too much of education can be destructive for a community and same is happening with us..

 

[prashantacmet]

I think we have reached a stage where we will probably resort to personal comments (we already have) if the discussion continues. Its best to avoid this thread unless someone brings up a new point/angle to the issue.

You are just overshadowed by Bhappe driver media!..don't you?..and believe me you r not so acquainted with this khap and bhai chara so better to stop arguing baselessly . What's the need to change an old tradition when it is still convincing to an overwhelming population..if old things are hard to carry..go get rid of religious belief first...thes ereligions had been created thousands of years ago..why still are carrying that burden?..Mohhamamed said something thousands years ago still40% of the world population is carrying his words....Guru gobind singh asked to put on "kesh kada kangha kachh kripaan" due to circumstances of 400 years before....to protect themselves in war..why a huge people of sikhs is still following that?..why don'y you educate people about it that there is no use of these things in this modern time..you are scared......... Hmm...you will be accused of blasphemy , may be ostracized or killed!...Ram/krishan were born thousands of year ago..still people are celebrating diwali..??
so if above things are still going on what's wrong in following our traditions..and how are we culprit?

 

[swaich]

the way u are talking 1 thing i can definately make out that you are not a jat...a jat can do anythin in this world but he'll never marry in his own gotra....some times too much of education can be destructive for a community and same is happening with us..

There is no such thing as too much of education. We educate ourselves everyday via experiences, books, acquaintances etc. The day you will realize this would be a revelation for you.