shivrampoonia
New member
Let us feel consoled from the clarifications put forward by Rajpalji and Kharab saheb. Better to be not moved by unauthentic aberrations of the kind. That's that.
Kupchani (कुपचानी), a Baloch sept, now represented by only a few families in Bhakkar district, Pakistan. H.A. Rose writes that Their tradition is that they fled from Persia into Balochistan, whence they were expelled by the Marri, Bugti and Kahiri Baloch. But they also say that they are an offshoot of the Qaisarani tribe of Sanghar tahsil in Dera Ghazi Khan whose chief is stated to keep their genealogical tree. In the east Kachhi of Balochistan the Marris, Bugtis and Kahiris all say that prior to their advent into that tract it was held by a people called Kupchani of Jat origin or status. This tradition lends support to the theory that Balochistan was once occupied by Jats, who were driven out by the Pathan, Brahui and Baloch. [Ref: A glossary of the Tribes and Castes of the Punjab and North-West Frontier Province By H.A. Rose Vol II/K, p.572]
Legend about Malik Title
According to Niamtulla's Makhzan-i-Afghani and Hamdulla Mustaufi's Tarikh-i-Guzida, in the eighteenth generation from Adam was born Ibrahim one of whose decendants was Talut or Saul. Talut had two sons, one of whom was named Irmia or Jermia. Irmia had a son named Afghan, who is supposed to have given his name to the Afghan people. Qais, a descendant of Afghan, with many of his kins men or Bani Israel settled down in Ghor, joined the Prophert's standard, and was converted to Islam.The Prophet was so pleased with Qais that he gave him the name of Abdur Rashid, called him Malik [king] and Pethan [keel or rudder of a ship] for showing his people the path of Islam. This explains how the Afghan and Pathan came into being and how they all love the title of Malik .
Reference: Studies in Asian History, 1969 pp.17-18
Rajpal ji,
I have thought about this for some time and have read similar connections elsewhere but this connection does not seem right especially how the name Afghan started. There is a different version, given by Dr. Ahmad Hasan Dani at following link, and I will quote specific paras:
http://pakhtunkhwatimes.wordpress.com/2009/01/21/page/2/
"The Pashto or Pakhto is a well-known Aryan tribe mentioned in the Rigveda along with others, Jadu (or Yadu), Kuru, Sivas and Bhalanases. The Jaduns are the modern Gaduns, Sivas have left behind their name in the modern village of Siva in Swabi tehsil, and Kuru can be recognised in the valley of Panchkora in the district of Dir and Bhalanases have left their name in Bolan Pass. It is the Aryans who first started the geographic name of Gandhara in about the middle of the second millennium BC that extended on either side of the river Indus, with two capitals, Pushkalavati (modern Charsadda) on the west and Taxila on the east. Later the western capital was transferred to Peshawar (old Purushapura)."
"In Gandhara lived eight Aryan tribes, known as Ashtakas, whose king, named as Astes in the Greek accounts fought with Alexander’s forces. The place name Hashtnagar recalls their memory. The Ashtakas have probably left behind their trace in the name Khattaks, who spread out south of the river Kabul right up to Attock.The Achaemenian Iranian Empire extended into this part, and Herodotus names the provinces as Gandhara, Paktyike, Sattagudi (i.e. Sapta Gomati, inclusive of Bannu, D.I. Khan, Zhob and Loralai districts, and finally Maka or Makran in the coastal region. Next province is called Hindu or Sindhu to the east of the river Sindhu. He also mentions the country of Darad in the north and refers to the Babylonian name Paropamisadae, i.e. the hilly area beyond, which in Sanskrit is called Avagana, or Apagana or Afgana (ava meaning far and gana meaning tribe) and hence tribes of the distant area, referring to Kabul region. Paktyike still survives in the provincial name of Paktya in Afghanistan, although it is much reduced in size."
"The geographical name Gandhara continued until AD10 century, i.e for nearly twenty-five hundred years, when after the overthrow of the Hindu Shahi dynasty by Sultan Mahmud of Ghazni, it was incorporated into his Ghazni empire and Gandhara was forgotten into the limbo of history. The Arab conquest of this region does not record Pakhto or Pakya because the Arabs fought with the Turki Shahi or Hindu Shahi rulers. However, the spread of Islam transformed the whole mental make-up and tradition of the people. Many of the tribes started connecting themselves with the Semitic tribes or with Iranian heroes of Shanamah fame; e.g. Gakkhars call themselves Kianis, and the Awans associate themselves with Qutub Shahis. Similarly, the Pakhtuns trace their traditional origin from the lost tribes of the Jews, as recorded in the Makhzan-i-Afghana of the time of Sher Shah Suri. It is after the conquest of the Arabs that the name Khyber was applied to the pass and Ali Masjid was built there near the old Buddhist site."
I also think this connection to lost Jewish tribe is all silly. When I first moved to the US as a student, I even read that the word Khan was a corruption of Kahn (a last name), and I accepted it because it made sense but we now know that is stupid.
Friend,
Thank you for sharing your wonderful research and findings on the issue !
Yes, it is a pure legend as the headline of my post clearly shows but it is neither silly/stupid nor anything else but a simple legend quoted by the author none else than Dr. B.B. Lal in his research paper given in the book quoted earlier.
Since you are a promising scholars and have to go miles on the ladder of learning, and also that you may have so many divergent sources, you must avoid using such words as 'silly' or 'stupid'. This will add grace to your writings/views. Nonetheless, you are the master of show and I respect your right to free expression !
None has said that they are historic findings!
But we as students of history know that legends and traditions pave way for reaching to the facts and if no other sources comes forward, then legends serve the purpose of construction of historic facts as has been happening in the case of traditions being used to reconstruct history world over including ancient history of India.
Thanks
Rajpal ji,
Thank you for you comments and your advice is well taken. I will strive to avoid usage of certain words, as you rightly pointed out. I have even modified my post above to reflect it. As somebody who is just an interested person and not an active scholar, I will be learning forever and modifying my views since history of this region is so vast and complex.
Coming to the topic, what do you make of Dr Dani's views. He is a legend and has done some very good research. It also ties in with your thread on chronology of Indian history and Vedas.
Secondly, in your future threads should I just assume that when you mention something as 'Legend ...', it should not be treated as historical.
As always, I look forward to material presented by you on this subject and future subjects.
Were Nagvanshi people non-Aryan ? BTW I doubt that Jats were related more to original inhabitants(pre-Aryan) on basis of genetics.Irburdak said:Majority of Jat clans is from Nagavansha who were the original inhabitants of India. There were constant attempts to exterminate them by dominant rulers be it Pandavas or Guptas.
There is no hierarchy/hypergamy system among Jats. Rose might have quoted about Jats of western Punjab(Manjha) or he might have written some rumors.H A Rose writes at page-377:
Social distinctions among the Jats
Among the Jats the only* social distinctions are the well-known 'Akbari' or Darbāri makāns — 35 in number according to the usual account. But in Amritsar the Akbari is only the highest of a series of four grades, the Aurangzebi (or those admitted to this rank in the time of Aurangzeb), Khalsāi (or those admitted in Sikh times) and Angrezi (or those admitted since British rule began) being the other three, and no less than 150 villages, all generally speaking in the Manjha, now claim Darbāri status. There is also a Shahjahdni grade, the Sansi Jats, of Raja Sansi, having been admitted in the reign of Shah Jahan.
The origin of the Akbari group is thus described. When the emperor Akbar took in marriage the daughter of Mihr Mitha, a Jat, of the Manjha†, 35 of the principal Jat, and 36 of the leading Rajput families countenanced the marriage and sent representatives to Delhi. Three of those Jat families are still found in Hoshiarpur, and are called the Dhaighar Akbari, as they comprise the Bains Jats†† of Māhilpur, the Lahotas of Garhdiwala and the Khungas of Budhipind, which latter is styled the 'half' family, so that the three families are called the 2-1/2 (dhāighar). The Akbari Jats follow some of the higher castes in not allowing remarriage of widows, and in practising darbāra, which is a custom of giving vails at weddings to the mirrāsis of other Akbari families. Their parohits also place the janeo on them at their marriages, removing it a few days afterwards. Below the Akbari (according to the Hoshiarpur account) is the Darbāri grade, descendants of those who gave daughters to the emperor Jahāngir. Thus some of the Man Jats are Darbāris, and they will only marry with Darbaris as a rule. But they will accept brides from Jats of grades below the Darbari provided the dower (dahej) is sufficiently large.
As regards Gurdaspur, Sir Louis Dane wrote : — " Some of the better gots of Hindu Jats or those living in celebrated villages or nāmas will not give their daughters to men of gots considered socially inferior, and the restriction often gave rise to female infanticide, as eligible husbands were scarce."
Comment- We find again in this para also facts about 'Akbar took in marriage the daughter of Mihr Mitha, a Jat, of the Manjha'. Can somebody verify from records or villages mentioned here ?
There is no hierarchy/hypergamy system among Jats. Rose might have quoted about Jats of western Punjab(Manjha) or he might have written some rumors.
Since ROSE himself was a foreigner, we should take caution interpreting him . It's obvious that he might have dependent on Indians, he can't do research alone, so he might have gotten misleading information from his Indian sources.Where is this CRAP of hierarchy/hypergamy in Jats coming from?????? A Jat is a Jat and all Jats are equal.
As per H S ROSE,,, his writing might have been influenced by the current rulers of the time when he wrote all this crap. Lot of writings of the past were influenced by biases and a policy of making some one happy whether that be local rulers of certain section of society who dominate the area.
Roj Jat clan History
रोज गोत्र के जाटों का प्रवाह बीकानेर की ओर से मारवाड़ की तरफ है. 855 ई. में रोहितास नाम के सरदार ने रोजास नामक गाँव को आबाद किया था. उसके ही वंशज छाजूजी ने छाजोली गाँव बसाया था जो नागौर परगने में है. इस तरह रोजास (बीकानेर) से लेकर छाजोली (नागौर) तक रोज गोत्र के जाटों का राज था . छाजूजी के पोत्र चावड जी ने कठोती गाँव आबाद किया था . इनके वंशज छाजोली, कचरास, सांडिला, खाटू, खूनखुना आदि में आबाद हैं. जब राठोड इस इलाके में आये तो इनकी प्रभुता समाप्त हो गयी. (डॉ पेमाराम, राजस्थान के जाटों का इतिहास,2010, पृ.22)
See details on Jatland Wiki at Roj
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