History and Historians on Jat Mauryan Empire[ founded by Chandragupta in c 323 BC]

SOURCES ON MAURYAS-5

Kalpsutra of Bhadrabahu throws a welcome light on the life and letters of the Mauryas. For its edited book version see H Jacobi , (Leipzig); and for translation of Kalapsutra by H.Jacobi refer to Sacred Books of East, XXII
 
Dr Rajpal,

Thank you for recommending resources. It reads like a reading list for a semester course. What I noticed is that these resources are all prior to 1960. Do you think nothing new or interesting has been written since then. If we do a reading of other popular topics like Harappan civ or even Harshvardhan we know new information has really changed our thinking, especially when we consider Harappan civ. For instance foreign origin of Aryans where migratory form or invasionist form is not regarded as seriously any more. Similarly, new inscriptions on Harsha have explained his religious practices much better.

Can you cite any interesting new resources on Mauryas?
 
Dr Rajpal,

Thank you for recommending resources. It reads like a reading list for a semester course. What I noticed is that these resources are all prior to 1960. Do you think nothing new or interesting has been written since then. If we do a reading of other popular topics like Harappan civ or even Harshvardhan we know new information has really changed our thinking, especially when we consider Harappan civ. For instance foreign origin of Aryans where migratory form or invasionist form is not regarded as seriously any more. Similarly, new inscriptions on Harsha have explained his religious practices much better.

Can you cite any interesting new resources on Mauryas?

I welcome your comment and thank you for this valuable view. However, you will appreciate that to reach to the roots of various original sources, a researcher in social sciences like History has first to tap secondary sources first. After having gained knowledge of the so called "Semester course" he can move on to PG And Research Level.


Anyway, it is requested once again to you to come out with your latest knowledge on the topic being discussed.
 
I welcome your comment and thank you for this valuable view. However, you will appreciate that to reach to the roots of various original sources, a researcher in social sciences like History has first to tap secondary sources first. After having gained knowledge of the so called "Semester course" he can move on to PG And Research Level.

आपने सही लिखा है|

Anyway, it is requested once again to you to come out with your latest knowledge on the topic being discussed.

At this time I cannot but will try later on.
 
We place great hopes on our young and seasoned Jat scholars and hope and request them to contribute their views/findings/readings/papers or research articles on the topic of the thread.
 
Sources on Mauryas contd.....

Asoka by Prof. D R Bhandarkar, 3rd Ed. 1955 published by University of Calcutta is a must read for those who want to gain first hand knowledge about the Great Jat ruler, especially Chapter VIII: Asoka's Inscriptions is a gem of research brought up to date [by the time when the book went to press].
 
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Asoka' other Names on His Inscriptions:

Before Maski Minor Rock Edict I was discovered in Raichur district of A P, there existed difference of opinion among the historians about the authorship of these epigraphs. None could come out with clear meaning of the words Piyadasi or Priyadarsin or about whom they stood for. These were first deciphered by Princep but he was also puzzled about the identity of the person or his dynasty or the period when he flourished.

The puzzle was somewhat solved when Turnour from Ceylon, identified 'Priyadarsin [one of amiable of looks] of the edicts with Piyadassi or Piyadassana on the basis of Pali scripture Divyavadan as two other names. This identification since then has not been called in question by historians because the Maski Inscription mentions the name of Asoka clearly in the very first line.

According to Dr. D R Bhandarkar, Asoka is designated also as Devanam-priya Priya-darsi, Priyadarsi Raja, Devanam-Priya Raja or even merely Devanam-priya on the inscriptions.

Thanks
 
It is not known exactly when Chandragupta Maurya, the founder of the ruling dynasty at Pataliputra was born. Dr. K A Nilkantha Sastri is of the view : "As he was a mere stripling when he saw Alexander in 326-25 B C, his birth could not have taken place before the middle of the fourth century B.C." [ p.142]

Could anybody suggest exact date of the birth of the first historic Jat Emperor!
 
Extracts from : Collapse of the Brahminist Empire by Khshatrapa Gandasa


Chapter: III .........................Mauryas


The Mauryas were themselves perhaps of Scythic origin. D.B. Spooner who evacuated Pataliputra was struck by his findings and writes in his article "The Zoroastrian Period of Indian History" as follows:
"For Chandragupta' s times, the evidences are more numerous and more detailed, and indicate a following of Persian customs all along the line - in public works, in ceremonial, in penal institutions, everything".

The theory of a Scythic descent of the Mauryas is supported by the following pieces of evidence :

  • Mauryan coins have the symbol of the sun, a branch, a humped bull and mountain (Dehiya, p.155). All these are pre-eminently Scythian MassaGetae icons who were Sun worshippers with the high mount symbolizing earth and the irregular curving lines alongside it symbolizing water. The tree branch is a symbol of productivity of the earth - agriculture and soldiering were the traditional noble occupations of Sakas. The historians of Darius record that when he attempted to attack the Scythian MassaGetae (an old-Iranian culture of Central Asia) along the Black sea in the 5th century BC, "the Saka kings swore by the sun god and refused to surrender earth and water".
  • The clan name of Toramana and Mahirgula, viz Jauvla, is still available among Indian Jats who are now called Jauhl.
  • Jat/Gujar clans and villages named Maur and Dharan exist even today in Punjab, Haryana, Bihar and western MP.
  • The Puranas do not even refer to the largest imperial dynasties of the north such as the Mauryas (324 - 232 BC) and Dharan Guptas (320 AD - 515) as "Kshatriyas". Regarding the Mauryas, Dehiya [p.147] states "Another indication of the foreign origin [ ie. Saka ] of these people is . . . The Vishnu Purana calls them [ Gupta rulers ] Sudras. The Markandeya Purana brands the Mauryas as Asura. The Yuga Purana called them `utterly irreligious, though posing as religious'. The Mudra Rakshasa calls these people as Mlecchas and Chandragupta himself is called 'Kulahina', an upstart of unknown family".
It has also been suggested that this Scythic influence was occasioned by the immigration of Iranic Scyhtians fleeing the Greek conquest. Be that as it may, the fact remains that the main civilizing impetus behind the Mauryan empire was Scythic.

Source acknowledged:
http://dalithsvshinduism.blogspot.in/2011/12/collapse-of-brahminist-empire-by.html

Comments of the learned Jatland members on the topic are invited.
 
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Asoka was one of the greatest Emperors of the world about whom H G Wells, a great historian says: "amidst the tens and thousands of names of monarchs that crowd the columns of history, their majesties and graciousnesses and serenities and royal highnesses and the like, the name of Asoka shines almost alone a star. From the Volga to Japan his name is still honoured. China, Tibet, and even India, though it has left his doctrine, preserve the tradition of his greatness. More living men cherish his memory today than have ever heard the names of Constantine or Charlemagne." The Outline of History, p. 212.
 
Good stuff!

Asoka was one of the greatest Emperors of the world about whom H G Wells, a great historian says: "amidst the tens and thousands of names of monarchs that crowd the columns of history, their majesties and graciousnesses and serenities and royal highnesses and the like, the name of Asoka shines almost alone a star. From the Volga to Japan his name is still honoured. China, Tibet, and even India, though it has left his doctrine, preserve the tradition of his greatness. More living men cherish his memory today than have ever heard the names of Constantine or Charlemagne." The Outline of History, p. 212.
 
I am not sure I will agree with most of the things in this paragraph. It is written in lot of haste therefore most things do not make any sense.
Lot of the things attributable to Scythians such as Sun, earth can easily be found in Veds. Surya, Vayu and similar stuff find mention in Veda so why run to Scythians for them.

A discussion about Scythians could reveal a lot such as who were they really. Herodotus, who may have coined the term, provides 3 different definitions of Scythians, which are often contradictory to each other. It is a very loosely used term and even more loosely assigned to groups.

Secondly, my understading of the north west, just prior to Maurya or even Greeks is that whole region was a made of well formed Janpads (or republics), which can easily be ascertained from Buddhist literature. Even a casual search will reveal these Janpads, so why run to Scythians again is my question.

Few goths, such Johal/Juhl from Juvala, arising from central Asians is believable provided author can provide more evidence than just saying that two names include a 'J' and 'a' and 'l' therefore they are same. Secondly this paragraph is supposed to provide information on Mauryas but he is discussing Mihirkul and Torman who appeared on the scene only about 700 years later. He is definitely confused.

A closer reading of Janapads or republics will offer better insight than simple generalizations as offered in the paragraph cited below in my opinion.

I think the discussion group run by Ravi on Yahoo has some very good material.

Extracts from : Collapse of the Brahminist Empire by Khshatrapa Gandasa


Chapter: III .........................Mauryas


The Mauryas were themselves perhaps of Scythic origin. D.B. Spooner who evacuated Pataliputra was struck by his findings and writes in his article "The Zoroastrian Period of Indian History" as follows:
"For Chandragupta' s times, the evidences are more numerous and more detailed, and indicate a following of Persian customs all along the line - in public works, in ceremonial, in penal institutions, everything".

The theory of a Scythic descent of the Mauryas is supported by the following pieces of evidence :

  • Mauryan coins have the symbol of the sun, a branch, a humped bull and mountain (Dehiya, p.155). All these are pre-eminently Scythian MassaGetae icons who were Sun worshippers with the high mount symbolizing earth and the irregular curving lines alongside it symbolizing water. The tree branch is a symbol of productivity of the earth - agriculture and soldiering were the traditional noble occupations of Sakas. The historians of Darius record that when he attempted to attack the Scythian MassaGetae (an old-Iranian culture of Central Asia) along the Black sea in the 5th century BC, "the Saka kings swore by the sun god and refused to surrender earth and water".
  • The clan name of Toramana and Mahirgula, viz Jauvla, is still available among Indian Jats who are now called Jauhl.
  • Jat/Gujar clans and villages named Maur and Dharan exist even today in Punjab, Haryana, Bihar and western MP.
  • The Puranas do not even refer to the largest imperial dynasties of the north such as the Mauryas (324 - 232 BC) and Dharan Guptas (320 AD - 515) as "Kshatriyas". Regarding the Mauryas, Dehiya [p.147] states "Another indication of the foreign origin [ ie. Saka ] of these people is . . . The Vishnu Purana calls them [ Gupta rulers ] Sudras. The Markandeya Purana brands the Mauryas as Asura. The Yuga Purana called them `utterly irreligious, though posing as religious'. The Mudra Rakshasa calls these people as Mlecchas and Chandragupta himself is called 'Kulahina', an upstart of unknown family".
It has also been suggested that this Scythic influence was occasioned by the immigration of Iranic Scyhtians fleeing the Greek conquest. Be that as it may, the fact remains that the main civilizing impetus behind the Mauryan empire was Scythic.

Source acknowledged:
http://dalithsvshinduism.blogspot.in/2011/12/collapse-of-brahminist-empire-by.html

Comments of the learned Jatland members on the topic are invited.
 
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I am not sure I will agree with most of the things in this paragraph.
Lot of the things attributable to Scythians such as Sun, earth can easily be found in Veds. Surya, Vayu and similar stuff find mention in Veda so why run to Scythians for them.

A discussion about Scythians could reveal a lot such as who were they really. Herodotus, who may have coined the term, provides 3 different definitions of Scythians, which are often contradictory to each other. ......................................
Certain goths, such Johal/Juhl from Juvala, arising from central asians is belivable as opposed to saying all of Jats or all of Gujjars came from central asia.

A closer reading of Janapads or republics will offer better insight than simple generalizations as offered in the paragraph cited below in my opinion.

I think the discussion group run by Ravi on Yahoo has some very good material.

Friend,

You have raised very interesting issues which if addressed properly could, perhaps, lead us to understand the Jat history in general and the Mauryan history in particular in some better way.

Mr. Ravi Chaudhary is requested to shed light on the origin of the Mauryas and related issue of their earliest Janapads please.

Regards and thanks.
 
A few words about Inscriptions of Asoka: 1.

Asokan Inscriptions have been engraved either on rocks, stone pillars or in caves. There are fourteen different found incised in seven different localities with a few slight variants and dialectical peculiarities. Some of them are located at : Shahbazgarhi [Peshawar],Mansehra near Abottabad [Hazara district], Kalsi near Dehradun, Girnar Hills near Junagarh, Dhaulli, Yerragudi etc. etc
 
Two Separate Kalinga Edicts of Asoka: 2

Two separate edicts, the Borders' Edict and Provincial's Edict, take the place of Edicts XII-XIII of the ordinary series, at Dhauli and Jaugada.
 
Excerpts from " SASIGUPTA AND THE POISONING OF ALEXANDER - by Ranajit Pal " :


"Palibothra, the Indian capital, was famous for its peacocks; Lane Fox writes, “.. Dhana Nanda’s kingdom could have been set against itself and Alexander might yet have walked among Palimbothra’s peacocks” < Lane Fox, Robin, Alexander the Great, London, 1973, p. 372. >.


Curiously, Arrian wrote that the great Emperor was so charmed by the beauty of peacocks that he decreed the severest penalties against anyone killing it < It appears from Asoka’s Edicts that ritual slaughter of the bird (Mayura) was practiced by the Mauryas. >.


Where did he come across the majestic bird? Does this fascination lead us to Palibothra? After all Justin wrote that he had defeated the Prasii. A closer examination of the histories of India and Iran shows that this is indeed the truth, but before going into details it is expedient to examine an age-old riddle which has been glossed over by all the writers though its bearing on the history of Alexander is immense. Where exactly was Palibothra? < ‘Ancient historians today generally supplement the record of the ancient writers with the findings of archaeology, including the study of inscriptions, sculpture and coins.’, remarks a comtemporary writer (R. Stoneman, ‘Alexander the Great’, Routledge, 1997, p. 6.), in a tone reminiscent of Sir Mortimer Wheeler’s allusion to philately in reference to archaeology of the north-western border provinces. Archaeology does not merely supplement history, it provides the basis on which alone true history can stand.>


In the closing years of the eighteenth century Sir William Jones made the so-called discovery that Palibothra was Patna in eastern India. In Jones’ day history was written on the basis of texts alone and though learned contemporary scholars like Rennell did not agree, the ‘discovery’ was hailed as a landmark in Orientology by popular vote. It is alarming to note that there is no archaeological corroboration of Jones’ hypothesis at all. Excavations at Patna have failed to unearth a single inscription, sculpture or coin of not only the Nandas or Chandragupta but even of Asoka < Unfortunately baffled by the lack of any archaeological corroboration, Indian historians have tried to underrate archaelogy itself. As a result, today the main body of Indian ancient history is based on fables. Although A. Ghosh, H.D. Sankalia, B.M. Barua, Debala Mitra and others have expressed grave doubts about Jones’ identification, R. Thapar and others have accepted the shoddy 1903 work of Waddell, a writer who was notorious for wild speculations and who had no scientific bent. >.


The famous archaeologist A. Ghosh categorically stated that the history of Patna is based on texts, not archaeology. Kulke and Rothermund also express scepticism about the Jonesian story < Kulke, H. and Rothermund, D.,"India", Routldege, London, 1990, p. 61. >.


Moreover as Wheeler pointed out, urbanisation of Eastern India cannot be traced before the period of Bindusara < In view of the strong evidence from the north-west, F.R. Allchin’s proposal for futher digging in the residential quarters of Patna is likely to be fruitless. >.


It is impossible to visualize the enormous wealth of the Nandas in Patna of the fourth century BC. The absurdity is heightened by the fact that Persian emperors assumed the name Nanda < In fact Darius-II and many other Persian emperors were Indo-Iranians in origin. > - Darius-II was Nonthos - and that the name Nunudda occurs in the Persepolis fortification tablets. This clearly indicates that Palibothra must have been in the north-west."



Link to Full Article : http://www.1stmuse.com/frames/sasigupta.html


Please note : < text > = < reference >
 
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Sources of Maurya History

The Puranas on the successors of Asoka with their period of rule *:
1. Kunal 8 years
2. Bandhupalita 8 years
3. Indrapalita 10 years
4. Dasona 7 years
5. Dasaratha 8 years
6. Sampati 9 years
7. Salisuka 13 years
8. Devadharman 7 years
9. Satadhanus 8 years
10. Brahdratha 7 years
*The information culled by K A Nilkantha Sastri ( Age of the Nandas and Mauryas, p.244)
 
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