पी एम हो तो मोदी जैसा...........

[virj]

---.

You say that majority like him so he must be doing something right for the majority and the democracy is a rule of the majority otherwise you could have socialism. What you are saying only look good in books.

Obama didn’t celebrate Christmas because one of their kid killed some other kids in the school accident but he is killing hundreds of kids everyday in Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iraq. Isn’t this double standard but you won’t raise a voice against this. People would still vote him. Why? You can argue that he is not killing his citizens but human(ity) should not change his definition as per the man made borders. Two wrongs doesn’t make one right yes but world isn’t perfect and sometime you have to choose the wrong which is more right to you.

Modi is widely believed to be less corrupt than congress, is progressive most of the businessman has praised him consistently. He has developed a model in which middle class gets more opportunity and is getting richer. You argument may be right that the tribal area are marginalised but still he is not taking all in his pocket. His model may have some flaws but still it is much better than the one in which neither middle class gets benefit nor tribal’s (looks at Naxal area ,60 years and still they couldn’t bring the change there). He has presented a model which is casteless.. Has anyone done that before in Delhi? I have yet to see any Guajarati who wants a change in his state (I believe someone has already told you similar).

Lets for a minute agree that Modi was involved in 2002 Riots but if it would have been secular parties even the Godara culprit’s wouldn’t have been captured (Remember Congress (bogus commission by congress) claimed that the fire was due to stove burning and there wasn’t any conspiracy involved. When a Qwasi can utter crap in public and nothing happen to him the already low confidence of a country ruled by foreigners for 1000 years dip deeper. The country look for heroes to boost their morale, confidence and they find one as in Nanak, Prithviraj, Shivaji, 3 wars against Pakistan etc (and yes often exaggerate their contributions).

Today, Gujarat is the only state in India where both big businesses and small farmers can expect an uninterrupted power supply for nearly 24 hours a day, with the premium rates paid by big business used to subsidize rural electrification. In 10 years, Gujarat’s auto industry has grown from one modest plant to an expected capacity of 700,000 cars in 2014, including billion-dollar investments announced last year by Ford and Peugeot. (Time magazine article). Modi is a preferred candidate for PM far ahead of Rahul Gandhi and Nitish- survey conducted in 28 cities. The times of India 31[SUP]st[/SUP] Aug 2012.

Britain earlier said she won’t deal with modi but now has changed its stand. Everyone just keep changing their morality as it suits them.
Do you think once Modi is in power he will start Muslim riots and get all Muslim killed? Modi has demolished hundreds Hindu shrines for road development and the other leaders couldn’t even got removed a Pir’s shrine on the middle of an important road. He is a strong and fearless leader and that is what a developing country need.
Doesn’t matter whether you agree or not he is the most preferred candidate and you agree to this. You may think that you are right and majority is wrong but that wouldn’t change the reality.

 

[vicky84]

Rahul recent speech looks promising. Atleast he has recognized the problem within the system. I am not sure if it is just another speech and no action. But if his intentions are right, i feel it will be really fruitful for the nation. Rahul has aply described the problem. Here are the main points:

A complete overhaul of the system is needed as "young and impatient India" now demands "a greater role" in decision making, newly-appointed Congress vice-president Rahul Gandhi said on Sunday in an impassioned speech outlining the need for his 127-year-old party to develop leadership and give prominence to grassroots workers.

According to him, the time has come to question the "centralised, unaccountable system and decision making must shift from Delhi to the panchayats".

"We don't need better systems, we need a complete transformation in the system, we need 40-50 leaders at the national level (anyone of whom can be prime minister) and seven to 10 at the state level (for chief minister)," Rahul Gandhi said while addressing over 1,200 delegates at the All India Congress Committee session here.



Excellents thoughts by Rahul Gandhi if ever implemented in the right spirit!!

 

[swaich]

Jaspreet, there is a war of propaganda from both sides. Modi has a great PR machinery, but it is not a one-way traffic. Let me ask a simple question. What is so different between Rajiv Gandhi and Narendera Modi as far as riots are concerned? I think the former's role can be shown as much more questionable than latter's. But as far as image goes, you can see a clear difference. Why?

This is not to say that Modi should be given the benefit of the doubt. I have no issues when any leader from any party, jat or non-jat is made accountable for his actions. None of these leaders are worth fighting for, as we tend to do here on JL. I know from my own little experience in student politics, that electoral politics is a game where you have to appeal to selfish concern of each vote. Going for principles is no good. These political leaders do the same at a much larger scale - the power at stake is immense. We have to be ruthless in judging them. All of them.

Some people are trying to prove that Modi hasn't done anything good on development. Incidentally, it is the same set of people who are trying to prove his role in the riots. They are not exactly same issues, are they? I mean, say if Modi actually ordered the riots - can any amount of development then reduce that crime?

Unfortunately, we don't have the precedent of forcing people out of public lives after such incidents. We have zero accountability - if we had it, then half of the current political class would be ineligible. After Shastri who famously resigned after a train accident, none of the leaders have shown such grace. So to demand such absolute standards of accountability in only one instance, as many NGOs and media personalities do, is hypocrisy. They have become anti-modi, whatever the issue or facts. But just by being anti-modi, they are neither moral nor defenders of liberal values. Just like by being pro-modi, you are not pro-development or patriotic.

Kapil, I agree with most of your points there. 1984 was probably worse than 2002. But here's the thing, if we (the public, media, citizens etc) have set a bad precedent, does it mean we are to repeat it? Does it mean we exonerate and stop pointing fingers now because we failed to do so 2 decades ago? And is this good for the future?

The argument here can be similar to the issue many raised around the recent anti-rape protests. Thousands of rapes have happened earlier, even worse than this one and continued to happen even in the days after this one. Did that mean nobody should have protested for this one? Does choosing to protest against the Delhi incident and not coming out on the streets for others around the country, make all the protesters hypocrites?

And lets not be in doubt that Modi's development credentials (however doubtful they might be in reality) are often cited as an excuse to deflect responsibility off the riots. As you mentioned, no amount of development can bring back the dead or reduce the enormity of the crime. But this is often the argument of many who say "At least Muslims in Gujarat have better opportunities than those elsewhere in India". As you can read a couple of posts above, people fall for this 'Gujarat Shining' hoopla very often. So it becomes imperative to bust certain development myths about Modi's Gujarat.

 

[swaich]

No, because RG was never associated directly with the riots like NaMo. No court ever indicated his direct involvement like that of Sajjan,Tytler or other congressmen and no state machinery sponsored it the way it happened in Gujarat.

There have been several instances and people who help NaMo accountable for his role during the riots. There have even been sting operations where in you can clearly hear NaMos supporters saying they were given 3 days to do what they want. We all know Modi's hardcore right wing thought process and it works well in Gujarat because people are of same thoughts but will it work in India is a different question.

Desi, honestly looking at both 1984 and 2002, there is no way such planning and precision would have been accomplished without support from the very top. You read books, eye witness accounts and case files without a bias and one can absolutely say that Rajiv's role in 1984 and Modi's in 2002 are absolute mirror images. Just the victims, perpetrators and location changed. And sadly, both are innocent untill proven guilty.

 

[desijat]

Jaspreet,

The riots in Delhi took place the very next day of massacre when Rajeev was with him mother's remains who was cremated in the evening, you really think he was multi-tasking?

None the less it took place under Congress regime and had some similarities with Gujarat which is deeply condemned,

Desi, honestly looking at both 1984 and 2002, there is no way such planning and precision would have been accomplished without support from the very top. You read books, eye witness accounts and case files without a bias and one can absolutely say that Rajiv's role in 1984 and Modi's in 2002 are absolute mirror images. Just the victims, perpetrators and location changed. And sadly, both are innocent untill proven guilty.

 

[cooljat]

.

Once a Lion always a LION. Do any other so called leaders have guts like him?

Watch it - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lvh9kWqPIFI

 

[ravinderjeet]

Rahul recent speech looks promising. Atleast he has recognized the problem within the system. I am not sure if it is just another speech and no action. But if his intentions are right, i feel it will be really fruitful for the nation. Rahul has aply described the problem. Here are the main points:

A complete overhaul of the system is needed as "young and impatient India" now demands "a greater role" in decision making, newly-appointed Congress vice-president Rahul Gandhi said on Sunday in an impassioned speech outlining the need for his 127-year-old party to develop leadership and give prominence to grassroots workers.

According to him, the time has come to question the "centralised, unaccountable system and decision making must shift from Delhi to the panchayats".

"We don't need better systems, we need a complete transformation in the system, we need 40-50 leaders at the national level (anyone of whom can be prime minister) and seven to 10 at the state level (for chief minister)," Rahul Gandhi said while addressing over 1,200 delegates at the All India Congress Committee session here.



Excellents thoughts by Rahul Gandhi if ever implemented in the right spirit!!

likh ke diyaa hod padhe se yu bhondu ,aaj bujh liye uh pe ak uhne ke kahi thi ,jaa ek bhi shabad bataa de te.

 

[ravinderjeet]

Kapil, I agree with most of your points there. 1984 was probably worse than 2002. But here's the thing, if we (the public, media, citizens etc) have set a bad precedent, does it mean we are to repeat it? Does it mean we exonerate and stop pointing fingers now because we failed to do so 2 decades ago? And is this good for the future?

The argument here can be similar to the issue many raised around the recent anti-rape protests. Thousands of rapes have happened earlier, even worse than this one and continued to happen even in the days after this one. Did that mean nobody should have protested for this one? Does choosing to protest against the Delhi incident and not coming out on the streets for others around the country, make all the protesters hypocrites?

And lets not be in doubt that Modi's development credentials (however doubtful they might be in reality) are often cited as an excuse to deflect responsibility off the riots. As you mentioned, no amount of development can bring back the dead or reduce the enormity of the crime. But this is often the argument of many who say "At least Muslims in Gujarat have better opportunities than those elsewhere in India". As you can read a couple of posts above, people fall for this 'Gujarat Shining' hoopla very often. So it becomes imperative to bust certain development myths about Modi's Gujarat.

bhaai jaspreet ,tu kitnaa haandyaa s gujrat me ? me aadhaa gujraat haand liyaa ,haryana-punjaab ne 40-50 saal laagge the itnaa develop honn jitnaa gujrat 10 saal me hogyaa. Please try to be in real world.

 

[sunnytewatia]

next time it is modi. mister desijat i am sure time wil prove wrong to who are making noise in favor of congress( congress n gandhi parvivar ke chamche). period. no more replies frm me on this thred.

 

[cooljat]

Are you kidding me, mate?

Not at all promising. Epic speech is here -

http://youtu.be/eEMFmih3LsE

Rahul recent speech looks promising. Atleast he has recognized the problem within the system. I am not sure if it is just another speech and no action. But if his intentions are right, i feel it will be really fruitful for the nation. Rahul has aply described the problem. Here are the main points:

A complete overhaul of the system is needed as "young and impatient India" now demands "a greater role" in decision making, newly-appointed Congress vice-president Rahul Gandhi said on Sunday in an impassioned speech outlining the need for his 127-year-old party to develop leadership and give prominence to grassroots workers.

According to him, the time has come to question the "centralised, unaccountable system and decision making must shift from Delhi to the panchayats".

"We don't need better systems, we need a complete transformation in the system, we need 40-50 leaders at the national level (anyone of whom can be prime minister) and seven to 10 at the state level (for chief minister)," Rahul Gandhi said while addressing over 1,200 delegates at the All India Congress Committee session here.



Excellents thoughts by Rahul Gandhi if ever implemented in the right spirit!!

 

[samarkadian]

I am not sure if this thread still 've its significance anymore when central leadership doesn't want Modi for the centre job. If it is a strategic move then I am not sure it is a wise and yielding move rather it shows a lot of confusion, egoism,regionalism and difference in the party once portrayed as party with different ideology. I am afraid whether it would further increase the belief of workers and voters onto the BJP in coming times.

 

[spdeshwal]

Jaspreet,

The riots in Delhi took place the very next day of massacre when Rajeev was with him mother's remains who was cremated in the evening, you really think he was multi-tasking?

None the less it took place under Congress regime and had some similarities with Gujarat which is deeply condemned,

Vikash, do you believe that Modi personally led the rioters who killed innocent people or Jaspreet accuses Rajiv Gandhi doing so?

Questions could be asked while analyzing the two events responsible for killings of thousands of innocents people! Whether Rajive Gandhi and his government did everything to stop the killings of innocent people of Delhi or not? Whether Modi and his administration did everything to stop the massacre or not? They both failed in their respective duties! In fact Rajiv Gandhi had made an infamous observation on riots after the assassination of his mother, " when a mighty tree falls, it is only natural that the earth around it does shake a little." What action did he take against Councillors, MPs and ministers who led those killers in Delhi!

 

[desijat]

Vikash, do you believe that Modi personally led the rioters who killed innocent people or Jaspreet accuses Rajiv Gandhi doing so?

!

No sir, he did not but there is a difference. Rajiv was probably the only kin in Gandhi family who never wanted to join politics. He a mere MP whose mother had been shot and I have followed enough videos to say he was with his mother the entire time until she was not cremated, which was a couple of days after she passed away. I am not sure how one justifies him orchestrating the act, it seems to be an act of a few senior leaders of Congress who wanted to shine their politics.

What action did he take as an aftermath is a different perspective all together and both him and Modi are in the same category here.

For Modi it is an entirely different case. There have been several instances where in it has been proved that Modi deliberately held back the state machinery to benefit the hindu extremists. Also there have been enough evidences to show that riots were carried out preplanned with voter lists, which again is not possible without the help of state machinery. Supreme court has verbally questioned Modi's role, which has not been the case in 1984 for Rajeev at least, could be for the govt.

 

[desijat]

View attachment 16366
Couldnt help but share this. Ha

 

[vicky84]

Are you kidding me, mate?

Not at all promising. Epic speech is here -

http://youtu.be/eEMFmih3LsE

Bhai I appreciated whatever he said. Infact if someone from BJP promotes something like that I would appreciate that too.

 

[kapdal]

No sir, he did not but there is a difference. Rajiv was probably the only kin in Gandhi family who never wanted to join politics. He a mere MP whose mother had been shot and I have followed enough videos to say he was with his mother the entire time until she was not cremated, which was a couple of days after she passed away. I am not sure how one justifies him orchestrating the act, it seems to be an act of a few senior leaders of Congress who wanted to shine their politics.

What action did he take as an aftermath is a different perspective all together and both him and Modi are in the same category here.

For Modi it is an entirely different case. There have been several instances where in it has been proved that Modi deliberately held back the state machinery to benefit the hindu extremists. Also there have been enough evidences to show that riots were carried out preplanned with voter lists, which again is not possible without the help of state machinery. Supreme court has verbally questioned Modi's role, which has not been the case in 1984 for Rajeev at least, could be for the govt.

Rajiv was not a mere MP - he was sworn in as the PM within hours of Indira's assassination. So he was directly responsible for what happened under his nose. There is nothing to suggest that he took any steps to stop it. In fact, there are versions of how he wanted to "teach a lesson" and obviously the (in)famous quote about the big tree. As for voter lists and all, I put the Tavleen Singh interview for that purpose. If you see it from 25th minute onwards, she talks about how that was a dirty trick from the 1984 book. Putting it again.

http://www.newslaundry.com/2012/12/c...tavleen-singh/

 

[vicky84]

likh ke diyaa hod padhe se yu bhondu ,aaj bujh liye uh pe ak uhne ke kahi thi ,jaa ek bhi shabad bataa de te.

Maine likhe hue li prashansha ki hai..

Waise to main bhi Modi ke administration ka supporter hoon,, Modi ne red tape kaam ki hai Gujrat govt mein..

Lekin Modi ne jo kiya hai wo state level pe hai. Rahul ne jo bataya wo centre level pe hai.. jab tak fundamental strong nahi honge, aap chahe Modi ko PM bana lena ya kisi aur ko; kuch nahi hone wala.

Its the system which makes people corrupt. Not the other way around!!

 

[desijat]

Kapil, these are all conspiracy theories. Rajiv as a peronality have been soght after as a softer one so personaly it is hard for me to digest he will be dictating people to kill others when his mother is lying dead.

As far as Tavleen Singh's journalism is concerned, she share some traits of right wing philosophy and let us not forget she is also a sikh.

Rajiv was not a mere MP - he was sworn in as the PM within hours of Indira's assassination. So he was directly responsible for what happened under his nose. There is nothing to suggest that he took any steps to stop it. In fact, there are versions of how he wanted to "teach a lesson" and obviously the (in)famous quote about the big tree. As for voter lists and all, I put the Tavleen Singh interview for that purpose. If you see it from 25th minute onwards, she talks about how that was a dirty trick from the 1984 book. Putting it again.

http://www.newslaundry.com/2012/12/c...tavleen-singh/

 

[spdeshwal]

Kapil, these are all conspiracy theories. Rajiv as a peronality have been soght after as a softer one so personaly it is hard for me to digest he will be dictating people to kill others when his mother is lying dead.

As far as Tavleen Singh's journalism is concerned, she share some traits of right wing philosophy and let us not forget she is also a sikh.

Even the kids knew about Bhagat Titler and Sajjan Kumar led the crowds in their strongholds! What action did Rajiv take against them! Had they been associated with killings against certain group of people other than Sikhs, would the conscious of this sought after softer, gentleman remain that of indifference!I know some Sikh families who bore the burnt of the riots and massacre, remain sure of his and governments inaction! They strongly feel that his words and actions lacked the will to stop the killings!

Does the fact that Tavleen singh comes from a Sikh Background, Makes her untrustworthy?

Cheers!

 

[desijat]

Even the kids knew about Bhagat Titler and Sajjan Kumar led the crowds in their strongholds! What action did Rajiv take against them!

I said it before as well sir, the act took place under Congress regime and thus does not make them innocent.

While Sajjan's involvement is clear, J D Tytler has got clearance on his role from CBI, I heard his story which is appalling. He himself is a Sikh.

Does the fact that Tavleen singh comes from a Sikh Background, Makes her untrustworthy?

No, I put that across as a possibility and never meant to emphasize the fact but her style of journalism is surely unbalanced and heavily opinionated.