Chronology of Indian History --Newer discussions

Leaving aside the other aspects of the importance enshrined in the Rigveda, if we take up a critical analysis of the verses and contents in the historical perspective and then correlate the same with historical events and traditions mentioned therein and elsewhere.then, many of the dark patches in the pre history and proto history can be lighted up.

The other tools of research may be used to concretion the conclusions so derived and thus the data could be used to reconstruct systematic history of India.

If we take up first the rulers dynasties available in various sources and prepare a list of the composers of the war hymns and daan verses and then make a comparative chart of both. perhaps the riddle of fixing the chronology of many events could some what be solved.

Are we ready to take up this exercise just to test the veracity of its application.
 
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DrRajpalSingh said:
Mahabharata clearly mentions that Daitya/Danava/Asura Branch was senior to Devayani borne branch of Aryan family and became rulers of the region possessed by their father. In due course of time, the two branches of the same family developed differences on several counts and the Devas tried to and succeeded in dislodging the senior branch from their ruling status in the ancient abode. This struggle for supreme power between the two groups is alluded to in several Indian and foreign traditions and texts which needs thorough analysis to understand the pre-history of not only India but of the Central Asia and to some extent some parts of Europe.

The places connected with Deva-Asura Yudhas including the event of SAGAR-Manthan needs due attention at the hands of scholars either to reject their occurrence on the basis of stronger evidence against them or to accept the evidences supplied by these texts as historical source.

Let us come forward to analyse them.

Thanks
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Kya aap mahabharat se uprokt baat se jude mool shlokon ko hindi mein anuvad karne ka jatan karenge?
 
DrRajpalSingh said:
If we take up first the rulers dynasties available in various sources and prepare a list of the composers of the war hymns and daan verses and then make a comparative chart of both. perhaps the riddle of fixing the chronology of many events could some what be solved.
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Raja Sudas ke dashrajan yudh aur unki yamuna ke tat per hui ladai ke baare mein pehle likha ja chuka hai. Unke pita Divodas ka janam saraswati nadi ke paas hua thha.
 
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Romar said:
Kya aap mahabharat se uprokt baat se jude mool shlokon ko hindi mein anuvad karne ka jatan karenge?
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Translate yourself; full reference [already produced post viz. http://www.jatland.com/forums/showt...ogy-of-Indian-History-Newer-discussions/page4, post 77 ] is reproduced belowfor your ready reference please :

DrRajpalSingh said:
Now let us move to see the fierce battle between Devas and Asuras which lasted for about a thousand years:

Basing his study on the evidences from Vedic literature on the issue of Deva-Asura Yudha, the author of Mahabharata, [Santiparva: Ch. XXXII], sums up the causes and course of the same through a dialogue between Sri Krishana and Arjuna. In reply to Arjuna's question, Sri Krishana says:

"O Arjuna, we have heard that formerly in the Devasura War, the elder brothers, the Daityas, and the younger brothers, the Devas, fought for gaining wealth. the war lasted for a thousand years. The Devas turned the entire earth into an ocean of blood, killed the Daityas and obtained the three Devalokas [Tridiva].''
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Thanks.
 
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Romar said:
Raja Sudas ke dashrajan yudh aur unki yamuna ke tat per hui ladai ke baare mein pehle likha ja chuka hai. Unke pita Divodas ka janam saraswati nadi ke paas hua thha.
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Tomar sahab!..looks like you are skyrocketing your theory. fisrt thing is that dashrajan yudh was never fought on bank of Yamuna..there is no mention of it anywhere. It was fought on the bank of a river and according to YASKA (6CE) that river is modern RAVI..(Parusani identified with Ravi)..so that river may be soemone else..there are no concrete proof of this, if yes please share..

Second question is : Is saraswati correctly identified?..if yes, which river is that..and present your proofs in support of that..

Thanks!
 
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Romar said:
Raja Sudas ke dashrajan yudh aur unki yamuna ke tat per hui ladai ke baare mein pehle likha ja chuka hai. Unke pita Divodas ka janam saraswati nadi ke paas hua thha.
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The battle hymns and danastuti hymns of the Rigveda relate mostly to the Divodasa dynasty. And the Divodasa dynasty stands chronologically as follows:

63. Divodasa

64. Mitrayu, Indrota

65. Soma

66. Srinjaya

67. Cyavana [Cayamana] and

68. Sudas

{For details and Reference, please see: S.B. Roy, Chronology, Journal of the Andhra Pradesh Research Society, Vol. XXXIII, pp.44-78}

This list clearly shows that Divodasa preceded Sudasa with four generations in between the two; hence wrong interpretation if we accept him as father of Sudasa.
 
S.B. Roy on identification of the 'locale' of the battle ground where Divodasa dynasty contested for supremacy against their rivals says:

''The whole of the Aryana [from Zagrus to Yamuna and from Turan to Arab(ian) sea] was the habitat of Vedic people in this fateful period [2000-1900 BC] of the world history.

...Srinjaya, the great grandson of Divodasa was the eponymous name of the Srinjayas who have been identified as the Zarenkas or Zaranjes of the Helmund region. The Divadasa dynasty therefore hailed from the 'Horahvaiti' region of Iran.''

He goes on to state ''Zarathustrian schism was still in future and the period was the Indo-Iranian period."

If some scholar has other source of information on the issue of this post, he is welcome to share and prove this identification as untenable.


Otherwise, by taking this identification that Divodasa hailed from East Central Iran, further analysis of the topic of the thread would be taken up in subsequent posts.
 
DrRajpalSingh said:
S.B. Roy on identification of the 'locale' of the battle ground where Divodasa dynasty contested for supremacy against their rivals says:

''The whole of the Aryana [from Zagrus to Yamuna and from Turan to Arab(ian) sea] was the habitat of Vedic people in this fateful period [2000-1900 BC] of the world history.

...Srinjaya, the great grandson of Divodasa was the eponymous name of the Srinjayas who have been identified as the Zarenkas or Zaranjes of the Helmund region. The Divadasa dynasty therefore hailed from the 'Horahvaiti' region of Iran.''

He goes on to state ''Zarathustrian schism was still in future and the period was the Indo-Iranian period."

If some scholar has other source of information on the issue of this post, he is welcome to share and prove this identification as untenable.


Otherwise, by taking this identification that Divodasa hailed from East Central Iran, further analysis of the topic of the thread would be taken up in subsequent posts.
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Dikkat hai ki Roy ji ne divodas ke janam ke varnan ko andekha kar diya hai aur unhe Iran pahuncha diya hai. Rigved ki 6.61.1 shloka mein Divodas ke janam ka varnan hai aur Saraswati nadi ke kinare per janma likha gaya hai.

Iran bhartiya aryon ki janam bhumi nahi ho sakti is vishe mein tathya pehle prastut kiye ja chuke hain. Unki kaat kisi ne prastut nahin ki hai. Divodas ki lambi ladai dasyuon ke raja Shambar se hui. Kisi ek samay Dasyuon ko bharat se desh nikala de diya gaya. Bharatiya arya in dasyuon ko aryan nahi maante thhe. Iran ke arya log in dasyuon ko arya maante thhe. Saaf jahir he ki in dasyuon bharat se bahar kadh diya tha.
 
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prashantacmet said:
Tomar sahab!..looks like you are skyrocketing your theory. fisrt thing is that dashrajan yudh was never fought on bank of Yamuna..there is no mention of it anywhere. It was fought on the bank of a river and according to YASKA (6CE) that river is modern RAVI..(Parusani identified with Ravi)..so that river may be soemone else..there are no concrete proof of this, if yes please share..

Second question is : Is saraswati correctly identified?..if yes, which river is that..and present your proofs in support of that..

Thanks!
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Aapne thoda sa galat samajh liya. ya mere likhne me galti rahi hogi. Sudas ne do ladai ladi ek parushni ke kinare pe aur doosri yamuna ka tat per. Gor karne ki baat hai ki Rigved ke shloka 3.53.12 mein likha gaya hai ki Sudas Bharat Shakha ke arya thhe. Isme koi sanshay nahi ki Bharat ka naam Bharat kyon pada. Yamuna ke tat per ladai hui thhi jo ki dasrajan ladai se vibhinn thhi aur iska varnan Rigved ke shloka 7.18.19 mein milta hai. Yeh ladai bhi Sudas ne ladi aur vijayi hue. Kya koi vidvan yeh bata sakta hai ki Yamuna Iran mein kaise pahunch gayi?
 
Romar said:
Dikkat hai ki Roy ji ne divodas ke janam ke varnan ko andekha kar diya hai aur unhe Iran pahuncha diya hai. Rigved ki 6.61.1 shloka mein Divodas ke janam ka varnan hai aur Saraswati nadi ke kinare per janma likha gaya hai........
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Kindly post quote of the full text of reference regarding the birth of Divodas on the banks of Sarswati, please.
 
Romar said:
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Iran bhartiya aryon ki janam bhumi nahi ho sakti is vishe mein tathya pehle prastut kiye ja chuke hain. Unki kaat kisi ne prastut nahin ki hai. Divodas ki lambi ladai dasyuon ke raja Shambar se hui. Kisi ek samay Dasyuon ko bharat se desh nikala de diya gaya. Bharatiya arya in dasyuon ko aryan nahi maante thhe. Iran ke arya log in dasyuon ko arya maante thhe. Saaf jahir he ki in dasyuon bharat se bahar kadh diya tha.
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Indo-Aryan and Indo-Iranians, both groups lived in the earliest known times in the Central Asia; and, in due course of time with the increase in their population and tussle for leadership gradually developed and it later on assumed the form of battles which has found place in the traditions of the Aryans of the yore.

The Vedic Aryans/earlier known as Devas and Dasyus/Daitya/Danava Aryans belonged to the same stock of old Central Family of Aryas whose common head of progeny or Prajapati was 'Kashyapa'.

He is said to have married several daughters of Daksha Prajpati. Aditi became the mother of the Adityas, who in later ages came to be regarded as the true gods by the Vedic Aryans. The descendants of the two other wives of the Prajapati Kashyapa were:

Daityas are born of Diti, and Danavas were born from Danu, the two wives of the Kashyapa, Both the Daityas and the Danavas have together been coupled as 'Asuras' too in the literary traditions.

Therefore, it is wrong to say that either Divodas or Shamber was non Aryan.

Reality if Deva-Asura Yudhas happened between two groups of the Aryans and the earlier rulers Asuras were made to retreat several times from their earliest possessions and ultimately forced to cross over to Afghanistan and then proceed towards Indus Valley region where they laid foundation to one of the oldest civilisations of the world known as Harappan civilisation. Thus the founders of this civilisation were the descendants of Diti and Danu.

The coming of Devas in subsequent times resulted in pitched battles between the Vedic Aryans and Harappan aryans which has been alluded to in various old bookls including Rigveda.

These historic clues and data have to be examined with an objective study in mind if we are really interested to come out of the historic cob web of the yore
 
DrRajpalSingh said:
Kindly post quote of the full text of reference regarding the birth of Divodas on the banks of Sarswati, please.
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इयमददाद्रभसमृणच्युतं दिवोदासं वध्र्यश्वाय दाशुषे । या शश्वन्तमाचखादावसं पणिं ता ते दात्राणि तविषा सरस्वति ||


</pre>
 
DrRajpalSingh said:
Indo-Aryan and Indo-Iranians, both groups lived in the earliest known times in the Central Asia; and, in due course of time with the increase in their population and tussle for leadership gradually developed and it later on assumed the form of battles which has found place in the traditions of the Aryans of the yore.

The Vedic Aryans/earlier known as Devas and Dasyus/Daitya/Danava Aryans belonged to the same stock of old Central Family of Aryas whose common head of progeny or Prajapati was 'Kashyapa'.

He is said to have married several daughters of Daksha Prajpati. Aditi became the mother of the Adityas, who in later ages came to be regarded as the true gods by the Vedic Aryans. The descendants of the two other wives of the Prajapati Kashyapa were:

Daityas are born of Diti, and Danavas were born from Danu, the two wives of the Kashyapa, Both the Daityas and the Danavas have together been coupled as 'Asuras' too in the literary traditions.

Therefore, it is wrong to say that either Divodas or Shamber was non Aryan.
..................................

These historic clues and data have to be examined with an objective study in mind if we are really interested to come out of the historic cob web of the yore
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D. P. Misra, who has studied Proto History of India, on the Devasura Wars writes: " The Puranas mention twelve Devasura Wars and give a separate name to each of them. They refer to the immediate cause in connection with a few of them but are silent about others. The first one, in which Narasimha, literally signifying 'a lion among men', killed Asura Hiranya Kashipu was, perhaps, fought in Devaloka itself. Narsimha, please with the righteous conduct of Hiranya Kashipu's son Prahlada crowned him as the 'Indra of the Asuras'. However, it is not clear whether Prahalada was allowed to retain the whole of Devaloka or onlyu a part of it.The doubt arises as his son Virochana, who succeeded him, is said to have ruled over the Fifth Patala, one of sevenregions bearing the name Patal."
 
DrRajpalSingh said:
D. P. Misra, who has studied Proto History of India, on the Devasura Wars writes: " The Puranas mention twelve Devasura Wars and give a separate name to each of them. They refer to the immediate cause in connection with a few of them but are silent about others. The first one, in which Narasimha, literally signifying 'a lion among men', killed Asura Hiranya Kashipu was, perhaps, fought in Devaloka itself. Narsimha, please with the righteous conduct of Hiranya Kashipu's son Prahlada crowned him as the 'Indra of the Asuras'. However, it is not clear whether Prahalada was allowed to retain the whole of Devaloka or onlyu a part of it.The doubt arises as his son Virochana, who succeeded him, is said to have ruled over the Fifth Patala, one of sevenregions bearing the name Patal."
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Continuing his discussion on the issue, Dr. Misra [p. 64] states: " Another Devasura War is named TaraKamaya which was due to Soma eloping with (Tara) the wife of Brihaspati, a priest of the Angirasa clan and the preceptor of the Devas. In the course of theis was Virochana was killed by Indra and his son Bali had to migrate to another Patla, which is presumably Bacteria, also called Bali-Alaya or Bali-Sadma. Bali was perhaps the most illustrous or Asura rulers and fought many a war with the Devas with varying fortunes. Perhaps the most important of the wars was the once connected with Samudra-manthana or the churning of the Ksirasagaara."
 
Romar said:
Dikkat hai ki Roy ji ne divodas ke janam ke varnan ko andekha kar diya hai aur unhe Iran pahuncha diya hai. Rigved ki 6.61.1 shloka mein Divodas ke janam ka varnan hai aur Saraswati nadi ke kinare per janma likha gaya hai.

Iran bhartiya aryon ki janam bhumi nahi ho sakti is vishe mein tathya pehle prastut kiye ja chuke hain. Unki kaat kisi ne prastut nahin ki hai. Divodas ki lambi ladai dasyuon ke raja Shambar se hui. Kisi ek samay Dasyuon ko bharat se desh nikala de diya gaya. Bharatiya arya in dasyuon ko aryan nahi maante thhe. Iran ke arya log in dasyuon ko arya maante thhe. Saaf jahir he ki in dasyuon bharat se bahar kadh diya tha.
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Dikkat Roy ke varnan mein nahi hai .Dikkat unh logon ki understanding mein hai jinohne Sarsawati River ko Kurukshetra mein panhucha diya .
Roy mentions his birth on Sarswati area in Iran also known as Harhavati today .

Bhai Vo Yamuna wala rigvedic verse bhi post kar dena ....let us see whether it is written for a river or a woman or something else.
 
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narenderkharb said:
Dikkat Roy ke varnan mein nahi hai .Dikkat unh logon ki understanding mein hai jinohne Sarsawati River ko Kurukshetra mein panhucha diya .
Roy mentions his birth on Sarswati area in Iran also known as Harhavati today .

Bhai Vo Yamuna wala rigvedic verse bhi post kar dena ....let us see whether it is written for a river or a woman or something else.
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आवदिन्द्रं यमुना तृत्सवश्च प्रात्र भेदं सर्वताता मुषायत् । अजासश्च शिग्रवो यक्षवश्च बलिं शीर्षाणि जभ्रुरश्व्यानि ॥१९॥

Saraswati aur kahan thi?
</pre>
 
DrRajpalSingh said:
Continuing his discussion on the issue, Dr. Misra [p. 64] states: " Another Devasura War is named TaraKamaya which was due to Soma eloping with (Tara) the wife of Brihaspati, a priest of the Angirasa clan and the preceptor of the Devas. In the course of theis was Virochana was killed by Indra and his son Bali had to migrate to another Patla, which is presumably Bacteria, also called Bali-Alaya or Bali-Sadma. Bali was perhaps the most illustrous or Asura rulers and fought many a war with the Devas with varying fortunes. Perhaps the most important of the wars was the once connected with Samudra-manthana or the churning of the Ksirasagaara."
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Aap Puranon ke aadhar per Rigved ko andekha kar rahe hain. Isko kaise tark sangat maane? Puran Rigved ke kai hajaar saal baad likhe gaye.
 
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