Chronology of Indian History --Newer discussions

[drrajpalsingh]

{Swami Dayanand Sarsawati and Aurbindo Ghosh have intercepted it the way noted earlier and they are no more to pay attention to your piece of advice. None can send your message to them so kindly bear with the philosophical point of view translation and comments they have made.}

Yes, Now you have picked up the right path and need to understand all the references to rivers, persons--Royals and Rishis--Tribes and places etc. etc. in proper perspective. This will broaden your vision to understand about the original home of the Aryans and their movements in their earlier days from Punjab to Caspean sea region i.e. Central India.

See, please, the posts on page :http://www.jatland.com/forums/showt...gy-of-Indian-History-Newer-discussions/page28

;; and 599 ;http://www.jatland.com/forums/showt...gy-of-Indian-History-Newer-discussions/page29 ;and,

post 585 on the same page:

......''To sum up the gist of his finding is :

We thus get two cross contacts in Indian proto-history:

Ashoka and Antiok, the yona raja in c. 257 B.C.

Divodasa of Helmund, Indatu of Ur, Hashrava of North Iran and Emissum of Larsa provide cross contacts in c.2000--1970 B.C.

The chronological infrastructure of the protohistoric India should satisfy these two fixed points."

That was what I had so far been trying to bring to the knowledge of the participants in the discussion of the subject of the thread about the original home of Aryans and chronology of Indian history. This stand taken by me stands proved now. You also have come to realize the importance of the River Saraswati. The Saraswati mentioned by the older Rishis is, indisputably located in Iran where for a considerable time the Aryans lived in the yore.

The other Saraswati flowed from the Himalayas with abundance of water in the past but dried up later on due to geological disruptions and at present has become a rivulet emerging from Adi Badari 35 kilometers from Yamunanagar.

The historicity of Rigveda can be understood in proper perspective if the realistic locale and time of the composition is kept in mind. With the help of Royal Dynastic List comparing with Rishis' dynastic list and also using other scientific research tools, S.B Ray has succeeded in establishing cross contact of DivodasaII with other contemporary kings as quoted above and proved c.2000-1970 B.C. and the date by which the last battle known as Das-rajan Yudha was over comes to c. 1900 BC. This dates arrived at with reasoned facts and must be gracefully accepted by all concerned, at least till the time, contrary is proved by producing stronger sources/data.

Thanks.

For Kind attention of the participants in the discussion:

Since the topic of discussion of the present thread is Chronology of Indian History, the posts on this aspect are welcome here.

But the issue of original home of the Aryans cropped up several times during the course of discussion. Therefore for providing separate platforms to the scholars to give expression to their talent a new thread has been started : http://www.jatland.com/forums/showt...Aryans-A-newer-discussion&p=335029#post335029

It is hoped this segregation would prove harbinger of harmonious growth of both the threads enriched by the scholars valued participation in fruitful and constructive discussion.

Thanks.

 

[nrao]

Mere vichar se niche diye gaye shlokon mein Sarasvati ka nadi roop aachi tarah se varnit hai. RV ka kuch aur sthanon per Sarasvati ka nadi roop varnit hai, unme se eak udharan neeche prastut kar raha hun. RV mein Sarasvati nadi ko itna uttam mana gaya hai ki usnein eak devi ka roop bhi le liya tha!

Sarasvati as a river is so extolled and so revered that at times it is also referred to as a goddess and is expressed as such. This can easily confuse readers.

ऋिग वेद २.४१.१६

अम्बितमे नदितमे देवितमे सरस्वति ।
अप्रशस्ता इव स्मसि प्रशस्तिमम्ब नसक्रधि ॥
(हे नदियों, मातृगणों, देवों मे सर्वश्रेषठ सरस्वति or Best Mother, best of Rivers, best of Goddesses, Sarasvati)

upar wali panktiyon mein sarasavati ko mata, nadi aur devi ke roop mein sambhodit kiya gaya hai. Sarasvati ka nadi roop spasht varnit hai.

People of both Haryana and parts of Rajasthan should have no doubt that Saraswati, the most sacred of rivers flowed through their lands in Vedic times as described in Rig Ved and treasure it, if they really choose to care that is.

Aap phir kamaal kar rahe hain. 6.61.1 se agla shloka hai 6.61.2 aur iska anuvad hai:


इयं शुष्मेभिर्बिसखा इवारुजत्सानु गिरीणां तविषेभिरूर्मिभिः । पारावतघ्नीमवसे सुवृक्तिभिः सरस्वतीमा विवासेम धीतिभिः ॥२॥

Anuvaad:

She with her might, like one who digs for lotus-stems, hath burst with her strong waves the ridges of the hills.
Let us invite with songs and holy hymns for help Sarasvati who slayeth the Paravatas.

Kripa kar he thoda addhyan kijiye. 6.61 ke saare shlok saraswati nadi ke upar hain.


6.61.8
यस्या अनन्तो अह्रुतस्त्वेषश्चरिष्णुरर्णवः । अमश्चरति रोरुवत् ॥८॥

Whose limitless unbroken flood, swift-moving with a rapid rush,
Comes onward with tempestuous roar.

6.61.10
उत नः प्रिया प्रियासु सप्तस्वसा सुजुष्टा । सरस्वती स्तोम्या भूत् ॥१०॥

Anuvad:Yea, she most dear amid dear stream, Seven-sistered, graciously inclined,
Sarasvati hath earned our praise.



6.61.12

त्रिषधस्था सप्तधातुः पञ्च जाता वर्धयन्ती । वाजेवाजे हव्या भूत् ॥१२॥</pre>Anuvad: Seven-sistered, sprung from threefold source, the Five Tribes' prosperer, she must be
Invoked in every deed of might.


6.61.13

प्र या महिम्ना महिनासु चेकिते द्युम्नेभिरन्या अपसामपस्तमा । रथ इव बृहती विभ्वने कृतोपस्तुत्या चिकितुषा सरस्वती ॥१३॥

Marked out by majesty among the Mighty Ones, in glory swifter than the other rapid Streams,
Created vast for victory like a chariot, Sarasvati must be extolled by every sage.



Jo koi yeh kaha raha hai ki 6.61 ke shloka Saraswati nadi ke baare mein nahi hain
unhe yeh nahi pata ki wo kya kah rahe hain. Thoda adhyan ki sakth avashyakta hai.


</pre>

 

[romar]

Mere vichar se niche diye gaye shlokon mein Saraswati ka nadi roop aachi tarah se varnit hai. RV ka kuch aur sthanon per Saraswati ka nadi roop varnit hai. What happens is that Saraswati as a river is so extolled and so revered that it also referred to as a devi and is expressed as such as well. RV mein Saraswait nadi ko itna uttam mana gaya hai ki usnein eak devi ka roop bhi le liya tha!

ऋिग वेद २.४१.१६

अम्बितमे नदितमे देवितमे सरस्वति । (हे नदियों, मातृगणों, देवों मे सर्वश्रेषठ सरस्वति or hey matriganon, nadiyon, devon mein sarvshresth saraswati)
अप्रशस्ता इव स्मसि प्रशस्तिमम्ब नसक्रधि ॥

upar wali panktiyon mein sarasawti ko mata, nadi aur devi ke roop mein sambhodit kiya gaya hai. Saraswati ka nadi roop spasht varnit hai.

People of both Haryana and parts of Rajasthan should have no doubt that Saraswati, the most sacred of rivers flowed through their lands in Vedic times as described in Rig Ved and treasure it, if they really choose to care that is.

Aapne bilkul sahi farmaya. Parantu yahan kuch log hain jo ki Saraswati nadi ko nadi nahin maanenge, jo ki sanskrit mein Rigved mein saaf likha hai, kyonki veh shodh mein vishwash nahi rakhte hain. Unhone Bhartiyon Aryon ko Iran mein pahuncha diya hai kyonki kisi Roy ne aisa kaha hai! Aisa bhale aadamyion ko ishwar aur buddhi de!

 

[drrajpalsingh]

Mere vichar se niche diye gaye shlokon mein Saraswati ka nadi roop aachi tarah se varnit hai. RV ka kuch aur sthanon per Saraswati ka nadi roop varnit hai. What happens is that Saraswati as a river is so extolled and so revered that it also referred to as a devi and is expressed as such as well. RV mein Saraswait nadi ko itna uttam mana gaya hai ki usnein eak devi ka roop bhi le liya tha!

ऋिग वेद २.४१.१६

अम्बितमे नदितमे देवितमे सरस्वति । (हे नदियों, मातृगणों, देवों मे सर्वश्रेषठ सरस्वति or hey matriganon, nadiyon, devon mein sarvshresth saraswati)
अप्रशस्ता इव स्मसि प्रशस्तिमम्ब नसक्रधि ॥

upar wali panktiyon mein sarasawti ko mata, nadi aur devi ke roop mein sambhodit kiya gaya hai. Saraswati ka nadi roop spasht varnit hai.

People of both Haryana and parts of Rajasthan should have no doubt that Saraswati, the most sacred of rivers flowed through their lands in Vedic times as described in Rig Ved and treasure it, if they really choose to care that is.

Friend,

None is questioning about the existence of Rigvedic hymns in praise of Saraswati. There are many and none can deny the fact. Same applies to the existence of Saraswti rivers both Indian and Iranian. But the identification of the Saraswati relates much to the identification of many issues related to the locale of the Aryans.

To avoid disruption of the discussion due to mixing up of two issues i.e. Original Home and the Chronology, it has been decided to segregate the two by allotting separate thread to each of the two topics so that smooth flow of posts and discussions is carried forward towards arriving at some logical conclusion of each of the issues being taken up.

The question of the chronology is the theme of the thread. Therefore, posts relating to the chronology of Proto history of India are welcome on this thread.

Those who are interested in discussing the issues related to original home of the 'Aryans' are requested to post their views in the newly started thread :http://www.jatland.com/forums/showth...029#post335029

 

[drrajpalsingh]

Aapne bilkul sahi farmaya. Parantu yahan kuch log hain jo ki Saraswati nadi ko nadi nahin maanenge, jo ki sanskrit mein Rigved mein saaf likha hai, kyonki veh shodh mein vishwash nahi rakhte hain. Unhone Bhartiyon Aryon ko Iran mein pahuncha diya hai kyonki kisi Roy ne aisa kaha hai! Aisa bhale aadamyion ko ishwar aur buddhi de!

Friend,

Please calm down because you have been provided ample opportunity to counter the arguments put forward by various scholars, and further stand a good chance to prove your hypothesis.

We are trying to find out some tenable solution of the problem.

In a bid to avoid overlapping of Chronology issue and Original Aryan home issue, both of them have been segregated and given one thread each of them.

Therefore, use them for the purpose of discussion. If you have anything to add to the chronological debate of proto-history of India, post your views supported by evidence here on this thread. Roy's conclusions are open for debate and have not been accepted as final word on the issue. Come and rebut his findings with the help of newer sources, please.

It would be appreciated to note that you are not the only person to decide the knotty problem of identification of the original home of the 'Aryans' and in the same way nor am I. The reality is that the problem has been defying solution for over two hundred years.

Therefore, you are requested to join a constructive, objective and healthy discussion on the thread on the newer thread on the issue by logging in :http://www.jatland.com/forums/showth...029#post335029

Thanks.

 

[romar]

Same applies to the existence of Saraswti rivers both Indian and Iranian.

Katai nahi. Aap kuch Iraniyon ke granthon mein se Saraswati nadi ke iran mein hone ka udhaaran dijiye. Anyatha yeh be fizuul ki baat hai.

Aur saath saath yeh bhi bataiye ki kya Ganga aur Jamuna bhi Iran me thhe?

 

[romar]

Friend,

Please calm down because you have been provided ample opportunity to counter the arguments put forward by various scholars, and further stand a good chance to prove your hypothesis.

Aap baat ko gol gol ghuma rahen hain aur poora ghaal meil chal raha. Aap kisi baat ka seedha uttar nahin de rahe hain. Aapse kaha ki Swami Dayanand ki kitaab ka jo panna aapne upload kiya usme 6.61.1 shloka nahi hai woh bhi aapki samajh mein nahi aaya.

Khair Yeh aapse seedhe sawaal hain:
1) Kya aap Rigved ke shlok 6.61.1 me Divodas aur unke pita ka ullekh maante hain ki nahin?

2) Kya aapko shlok 6.61.1 me yeh dikhai de raha hai ki Divodas ke pita ko Saraswati nadi ki prarthana se putra uplabdhi hui?

3) Kya aapko 6.61.8 , 6.61.10 aadi shlokon mein Saraswati nadi ka ullekh nahi dikh raha hai?

Aap ka roy ka hawala dena be buniyaad hai kyonki Roy Rigved ke vipriit ja ke yeh kah rahe hain ki Divodas ki dynasty Iran se thhi. Kaunse granth ke bal buute per woh aisi bakwaas likh rahe hain aur aap use maan rahe hain?

 

[drrajpalsingh]

Aap baat ko gol gol ghuma rahen hain aur poora ghaal meil chal raha. Aap kisi baat ka seedha uttar nahin de rahe hain. Aapse kaha ki Swami Dayanand ki kitaab ka jo panna aapne upload kiya usme 6.61.1 shloka nahi hai woh bhi aapki samajh mein nahi aaya.

Khair Yeh aapse seedhe sawaal hain:
1) Kya aap Rigved ke shlok 6.61.1 me Divodas aur unke pita ka ullekh maante hain ki nahin?

2) Kya aapko shlok 6.61.1 me yeh dikhai de raha hai ki Divodas ke pita ko Saraswati nadi ki prarthana se putra uplabdhi hui?

3) Kya aapko 6.61.8 , 6.61.10 aadi shlokon mein Saraswati nadi ka ullekh nahi dikh raha hai?

Aap ka roy ka hawala dena be buniyaad hai kyonki Roy Rigved ke vipriit ja ke yeh kah rahe hain ki Divodas ki dynasty Iran se thhi. Kaunse granth ke bal buute per woh aisi bakwaas likh rahe hain aur aap use maan rahe hain?

You seem to be under illusion that by repeating a false allegation several times and using derogatory language against the scholars, you could bend me to accept what you think to be accepted by one and all as gospel of truth and all others are spreading falsehood. Forget none is ready to buy your point of view till it is not supported by solid evidence.

Regarding use of sources in studying proto-history, several evidences are collected, analysed by comparison and contrast and then some tentative hypotheses are made. Thereafter, again the arguments and counter arguments are taken up to arrive at some convincing conclusion on the basis of available and accessible sources. This type of conclusion/s is/are open for amendment if some newer evidence is found to substitute them. Same is the case with our tentative conclusion based on the findings of Shri S.B. Roy's painstaking research.

As regards other points, you must either consult the original book of Swami Dayanand Sarswati or stop raising finger against what has been posted on the basis of his learned study. To refresh your memory it is submitted, once again, that:

1. Three full scanned pages from the book of Swami Dayanand Sarswati have been presented on demand of your Excellency Mr. Tomar/Romar.

2. The first page depicts the author and the Publisher's name.
3. Next two pages relate to Mandal VI. Sukta 61. 1 to 14.
4. These two pages clearly belong to RV 6.61 and contain all the original Rigvedic mantras from 61. 1 to 14 followed by Translation into Hindi and then their interpretations by Swamiji.

5. Identification of Rivers, places and persons mentioned in traditional literature of the 'Aryans' is being taken for discussion, as informed already, in the new thread : :http://www.jatland.com/forums/showth...029#post335029


Under the circumstances, if you have some evidence to challenge the chronological identification given by S.B. Roy, who has arrived at the conclusion supported by the cross contacts, you are free to put your objections supported by sources, otherwise, introspect yourself who is indulging in 'BAKWAS'.


Thanks,

 

[drrajpalsingh]

...............................................

Khair Yeh aapse seedhe sawaal hain:
1) Kya aap Rigved ke shlok 6.61.1 me Divodas aur unke pita ka ullekh maante hain ki nahin?

2) Kya aapko shlok 6.61.1 me yeh dikhai de raha hai ki Divodas ke pita ko Saraswati nadi ki prarthana se putra uplabdhi hui?

3) Kya aapko 6.61.8 , 6.61.10 aadi shlokon mein Saraswati nadi ka ullekh nahi dikh raha hai?

................

Point 1. Yes.

Point. 2. No.

I do not believe in these types of superstitions that by visiting/worshiping such and such person, religious shrine, river or mountain can provide son or daughter. Practically it is impossible.

Point. 3. Yes, 'Saraswati'.

 

[drrajpalsingh]

Katai nahi. Aap kuch Iraniyon ke granthon mein se Saraswati nadi ke iran mein hone ka udhaaran dijiye. Anyatha yeh be fizuul ki baat hai.

Aur saath saath yeh bhi bataiye ki kya Ganga aur Jamuna bhi Iran me thhe?

Bhai Sahib,

It would be good for you to first study all the points discussed earlier and if you find them unsatisfactory in any way post your views supported by relevant sources, otherwise there is no end to the discussion.

However, I would like to draw your attention, regarding identification of the Ganges, please read posts 43 (by me) and 44 (Ravi Chaudhary) on page 3 of this very thread : http://www.jatland.com/forums/showt...ogy-of-Indian-History-Newer-discussions/page3

The problem with you is to put one question or the other for the sake of putting questions, it seems, to divert the attention of the participants from taking up relevant issues towards their logical conclusion.

You must note, to repeat your own words, that what you are doing at this stage is, : fizuul ki baat hai !!!!!

Thanks.

 

[romar]

Point 1. Yes.

Theek hai to ab jara batayen ki yeh baap bete Iran kaise pahunche. Koi copy paste nahi chalega. Jis prakar Rigved mein Divodas ka janam Saraswati ki den unke pita Vridhashwaya ko bataya gaya hai usi prakaar ka evidence chaiyega. Roy ne yah dhikde ne likh diya se kaam nahi chalega. Mool Stotra yani Primary source ka hawala dijiye.

Point. 2. No.

Aapko Sanskrit ki class leni padegi kyonki aap apna bahut majaak banwa rahe hain.
इयमददाद्रभसमृणच्युतं = jo deti hai vegvaan , tej , rino (loan) se mukt karne wala

दिवोदासं = ladke ka naam.
वध्र्यश्वाय = pita ka naam.
दाशुषे = danveer

Kaun deti hai? Saraswati

Yeh Saraswati haun hai?

Iska uttar shloka 6.61.8 mein diya hai:

यस्या अनन्तो अह्रुतस्त्वेषश्चरिष्णुरर्णवः । अमश्चरति रोरुवत् ॥८॥

Yeh Saraswati woh hai :
Whose limitless unbroken flood, swift-moving with a rapid rush,
Comes onward with tempestuous roar.

Artharth yeh Saraswati nadi hai.

I do not believe in these types of superstitions that by visiting/worshiping such and such person, religious shrine, river or mountain can provide son or daughter. Practically it is impossible.

Bura mat maaniyega aapke maan ne ya na maan ne se kuch nahi hota. Bharat ke mool granth Rigved mein likha hai to us se maan na hi padega.

 

[narenderkharb]

Before giving any class you must take a lesson on how to debate?

You were told many posts back that Rigvedic Sarswati River was in Helmund province of Iran not in ghaggar area .Dr Rajpal quoting DP Misra wrote about Divodas of Helmund ...Did you try to understand the significance of same.

Problem is like a Koop Manduk Aaak ke record ki Sui issi Salok pe attaki hui hai or vahi pe Aap gol gol ghum rahe hai.

Aab aap kirpya kar ke ye baat dhyaan se paddhne....


Divodas ne sarswati ki puja ki ........Iranian Avesta Sarswati ko Helmund province me batata hai ...Rigved kahan kahata ki yeh yamuna nagara mein thi ?

Nadi sukat jo ki last phase me compile kiya gaya tha ke alawa kahan ye aabhas hota ki sarswati river ka India se koi lena dena bhi tha?Name of older sacred rivers are often given to later rivers when people migrate to those places ...there is a Sarswati river in Bangal also will you say that rigveda was complied in bangla desh?

Where Avestan discription of river Sarswatiin Helmund is same as Rigvedic Sarswati ...Can you correlate attributes of Ghagghar river to rigvedic river Sarswati same way?

Can you corelate data of Geologists for Ghaggar river Basin to the data of Sarswati River of Rigveda .

Can you explain the inhabitance of five Aryan tribes at sarswati river and relate that to your idea about ghagghar river in Indian History.


What you meant by Arya ?/Dasyu ? Panca Jana ? Dasa?etc etc ..there are many fundamental question that you must understand before discussion .

When the data about haplogroups were posted I suggested you to read and try to understand that but you choose to ignore that ?

Same way when you were told about harahvati river you avoided .For a beginning Rajesh Kocchar is a Good Scholar read his article about Vedic Sarswati river and we can discuss further....

Point is we can debate here but teaching is arduous job and every one wants to avoid that.

 

[nrao]

doh bataein spast hoh gayi abhi tak:

i) Saraswati eak nadi thi, yeh sabhi mante hain, iska naam Gagghar kab pada yeh kise bhi nahin pata,
ii) Saraswati nadi ke sthan schoook varnan, jaise ki Narendra ne bataya rig ved mein aata hai, aur woh nadi sukta hai jisme useh Yamuna aur Satudri (Satluj) ke beech baataya gaya hai. Yeh RV mein pramanit hai:

इमं मे गग़ें यमुने सरस्वति सुतुद्रि स्तोम् सचता परुष्ण्या ।
असिक्न्या मरुवृद्धे वितस्तयार्जीकीये श्रृणुह्या सुषोमया ॥

Before giving any class you must take a lesson on how to debate?

You were told many posts back that Rigvedic Sarswati River was in Helmund province of Iran not in ghaggar area .Dr Rajpal quoting DP Misra wrote about Divodas of Helmund ...Did you try to understand the significance of same.

Problem is like a Koop Manduk Aaak ke record ki Sui issi Salok pe attaki hui hai or vahi pe Aap gol gol ghum rahe hai.

Aab aap kirpya kar ke ye baat dhyaan se paddhne....


Divodas ne sarswati ki puja ki ........Iranian Avesta Sarswati ko Helmund province me batata hai ...Rigved kahan kahata ki yeh yamuna nagara mein thi ?

Nadi sukat jo ki last phase me compile kiya gaya tha ke alawa kahan ye aabhas hota ki sarswati river ka India se koi lena dena bhi tha?Name of older sacred rivers are often given to later rivers when people migrate to those places ...there is a Sarswati river in Bangal also will you say that rigveda was complied in bangla desh?

Where Avestan discription of river Sarswatiin Helmund is same as Rigvedic Sarswati ...Can you correlate attributes of Ghagghar river to rigvedic river Sarswati same way?

Can you corelate data of Geologists for Ghaggar river Basin to the data of Sarswati River of Rigveda .

Can you explain the inhabitance of five Aryan tribes at sarswati river and relate that to your idea about ghagghar river in Indian History.


What you meant by Arya ?/Dasyu ? Panca Jana ? Dasa?etc etc ..there are many fundamental question that you must understand before discussion .

When the data about haplogroups were posted I suggested you to read and try to understand that but you choose to ignore that ?

Same way when you were told about harahvati river you avoided .For a beginning Rajesh Kocchar is a Good Scholar read his article about Vedic Sarswati river and we can discuss further....

Point is we can debate here but teaching is arduous job and every one wants to avoid that.

 

[narenderkharb]

Sarswati is worshipped both as a Deviand a River in vedic(Goddess of learning and a companion of Brahma) and Iranian texts ( Ardvisura Anahita) which is more than clear but that is irrelevant ...

As in mythology often natural forces like River ,Sun ,water etc are changed to some Devi/devta as Agni /Varun /Marut /Sun etc.

Second it is our interpretation of Nadi Sukta where we take mention of sequence of rivers as an indication of their postion .It may or may not be true.As we know when people migrate to other places they carry the names of scared rivers sacred places and their mythological stories to newer lands and localise them.We know sarswati Ramayna and other stories in different countries .In such a case we have to critically examine whether the attributes of an ancient river matches attributes of a later river like one as we presume in India .


Again we have to cross examine it from other sources ......

Let us take Sarswati river as one folowing in Kurukshetra of Haryana .......


Than entire Punjab and Indus, Archosia area the main Geographic area of Rigveda becomes land of dasyus Rakshas or dasas ....

As Aryavarta is mentioned east of Sarsvati River ...

Is it true?????

Take drasadhwati river as in Haryana and then Capital of Kuru empire Hastinapur will move out of its own territory of kurukshetra ..since Kuru empire is west of Darasdwati river .......

why it is so ?????


It means you erred in your basic assumptions ...


We can teach here but only if one is ready to learn

If you have already you glass of wisdom filled (biases and preconceived notions)Any attempt to add will result in spill over ,So pls empty it a bit to gain more.

doh bataein spast hoh gayi abhi tak:

i) Saraswati eak nadi thi, yeh sabhi mante hain, iska naam Gagghar kab pada yeh kise bhi nahin pata,
ii) Saraswati nadi ke sthan schoook varnan, jaise ki Narendra ne bataya rig ved mein aata hai, aur woh nadi sukta hai jisme useh Yamuna aur Satudri (Satluj) ke beech baataya gaya hai. Yeh RV mein pramanit hai:

इमं मे गग़ें यमुने सरस्वति सुतुद्रि स्तोम् सचता परुष्ण्या ।
असिक्न्या मरुवृद्धे वितस्तयार्जीकीये श्रृणुह्या सुषोमया ॥

 

[narenderkharb]

Romar Bhai


Yadu jo most southern group tha vedic five tribes mein se us akale group ne Archosia(Yadu bhattis) se Bihar tak ke area ko Yadavo se bhar diya .....To ye jo warrior Puru Turvas Darhyu Anu thae woh kaya repoduction bandh kar ke baith gaye the .....???

Have an introspection and than write a post .


Iran ko pahale Purusia or persia kaha gaya kyon ....Puru tribe ki vajah se ...


And enemies of Aryans Turvasu were clearly written in Turans area ......


Aap Kahate hain ki Irani Indians se ladai kar ke bahar gaye ..
Lekin Irani to apani ladaai Indians or hapta hinduon se kabhi nahi batate....... agar vo Indians se ladate to unki dusmani Hapta Hindon se hoti ..........

Par vo to Apne battle Deva or unke protege se Turan mein batate hain ......................Aisa kyon hai bhai ????????


Kaya iska ye matlab nahi hua ki Deva Asura sangram ke Deva Turan or central Asia me the ancient times mein .............


In short........ Niskarsh ye nikalta hai ki Puru tribe belonged to Iranians and Turavsu to Turanians ....Daryuh /.Dahe(who were most mobile ) wered situate near caspian area as well as sakastan and ancesstor of Hittis was reffered as Anu placed in northern areas .....This the same four directonal postoning of pancha jana as written in puranas. Any way ................





Just place puru in gangatic area Turvasus will have to jump in to bay of bengal or andhra pardesh(to satisfy south easterly placent of Turvasa..... .....

Have you seen any Tur in odissa or andhra??????



Aab apane Gyan ke gilas ko thoda empty kar ke yeh samaj lena ..Aap ke concepts clear ho jayenge ..


It is a short interruption from my side ....pls carry on your discussion.

 

[romar]

Before giving any class you must take a lesson on how to debate?

You were told many posts back that Rigvedic Sarswati River was in Helmund province of Iran not in ghaggar area .Dr Rajpal quoting DP Misra wrote about Divodas of Helmund ...Did you try to understand the significance of same.

Sun to bahut din se rahe hain lekin aaj tak koi pramaan nahi mila ki helmand ki saraswati saagar tak pahunchti thhi. Rigved ki saraswati samudra tak pahunchti thhi aur aapki helmand ki nadi ek johad mein khatam hoti hai. Johad aur samudra do alag cheej hain. Thoda apne glass mein paani aur daal lijiye.

Is baat ka arth yeh hua ki Rigved ki Saraswati bharat mein hi thhi na ki Iran mein jaisa aap pelne ki koshish kar rahe hain.

 

[romar]

Second it is our interpretation of Nadi Sukta where we take mention of sequence of rivers as an indication of their postion .It may or may not be true.

Ab to katai top ka gola hi chala diya tau ne. Rigved ke Brahman bhi fail kar diye . Bahut khoob. Lekin jara Rigved ke shlok ko bhi dekh lein:


इमं मे गग़ें यमुने सरस्वति सुतुद्रि स्तोम् सचता परुष्ण्या ।
असिक्न्या मरुवृद्धे वितस्तयार्जीकीये श्रृणुह्या सुषोमया ॥

Padhna shuru kijiye: Ganga, Jamuna, Saraswati, Sutlej........ Aaj bhi yeh nadiyan isi karam main hain. Jara yeh bhi bata do ki Ganga, Yamuna aur Sutlej bhi Iran mein hain kya? To Ram bhagwan bhi deekhe Iran mein hi paida hue thhe? Aur himalya kahan thha? Oh ho use to Hanuman sir pe tha ke laya tha aur bharat mein ger diya.

As Aryavarta is mentioned east of Sarsvati River ...

Is it true?????

Katai ni. Kisi ne behka diya aapko.

 

[romar]

Iran ko pahale Purusia or persia kaha gaya kyon ....Puru tribe ki vajah se ...

Bahut jabardast chutkula choda hai aapne. Khair baat aapki katai galat hai.

 

[romar]

Buddhijivi jo Iran main Saraswati nadi ka hawala de rahe hain aur Kocchar, Bhargava ityadi ke copy paste ko sarvopari maan rahe hain jara padhne ka kasth karein:
http://koenraadelst.bharatvani.org/reviews/kochhar.html

 

[drrajpalsingh]

Sun to bahut din se rahe hain lekin aaj tak koi pramaan nahi mila ki helmand ki saraswati saagar tak pahunchti thhi. Rigved ki saraswati samudra tak pahunchti thhi aur aapki helmand ki nadi ek johad mein khatam hoti hai. Johad aur samudra do alag cheej hain. Thoda apne glass mein paani aur daal lijiye.

Is baat ka arth yeh hua ki Rigved ki Saraswati bharat mein hi thhi na ki Iran mein jaisa aap pelne ki koshish kar rahe hain.

Friend,

Please maintain composure of mind before reaching conclusions. There may be two or three rivers bearing the same name.

The controversy on the identification of Sarasvati river is not finally settled and claims and counter claims to provide references continues.

Undoubtedly, Iranian traditions and Indian traditions both mention presence of Sarasvati river in their respective locales and the issue has to be clinched after weighing all the evidences for and against, not one source can do the miracle !

Let us keep our options open to consider the case in an objective manner and wait for counter points of view presented by others too.

Thanks.