System Vs Mansikta

[ssgoyat]

Desi,

I say X, you misinterpret as Y (multiplied by 1000). And make a stupid conclusion out of it. And i'm sure, you'll continue this with my every post. But that will not give you any discount from me.

Point was: Army should remain in control/within boundary. If uncontrolled/Martial law, results are disastrous, and you'll see kachra everywhere.

Like you said: Institution that saves your country !!! This very same institution can destroy the country also in no time. May be, you must be knowledgeable enough to know examples also.

 

[ssgoyat]

Jit, whats the use of it? Does an entrance exam help in reducing corruption or inefficiency? Today most of these bureaucrats are totally corrupt and inefficient. How would an exam guarantee in getting right leaders?

Viky. May be Jit could have chosen word 'eligible criteria' than 'selection criteria'. Selection method is okay (as these should be chosen by public only through voting), but not the selection procedure. Like AAP (If they happen to select right candidates in future) the party should issue tickets after thorough check

"When you have most tough selection criteria for IAS exams then why not for contestants in election? There should be minimum education and experience criteria. Goons, criminals must not get tickets, thorough background check should be compulsory"

 

[sivach]

हा हा ही ही हे हे हा हा :applause::triumphant:

[/COLOR]

For a sweet exception, I agree.

इतना इंतज़ार क्यूँ? जोक तो अब तक मार देना था |

ha ha ha ha.... mugjhe bada pasand aaya... ispe ek joke banaya hai maine... agar izazat ho to sunau???

 

[desijat]

May be you need to choose right way of communication to convey your thoughts better because if someone has not told you yet then all your thoughts are reply to the person, not the post or thoughts, are personal and will offend anyone. e.g. in this post, even when you agreed it came as a disagreement, and am sure am not the only one who got that wrong, the replies and likes to your post suggest the same. Most of your replies come across immature or personal, take this not as a criticism but a constructive feedback which I assume you should welcome.

On the topic, I agree since you have conveyed your thoughts correctly now.

Desi,

I say X, you misinterpret as Y (multiplied by 1000). And make a stupid conclusion out of it. And i'm sure, you'll continue this with my every post. But that will not give you any discount from me.

Point was: Army should remain in control/within boundary. If uncontrolled/Martial law, results are disastrous, and you'll see kachra everywhere.

Like you said: Institution that saves your country !!! This very same institution can destroy the country also in no time. May be, you must be knowledgeable enough to know examples also.

 

[arvindc]

People get the govt that they deserve not other way round. Everyone hates politics and politicians but they are part of day to day politics be it in office/villages.
Jab kabhi koi police wala pakad leta hai to har koi 400 bachane k chakar mein 100-200 dene ko tyar rehta hai n galti police wale ki.

Kyonki koi agar pure Rs. 500 ka chalan katawa bhi leta hai to bhi koi grantee nahi ki wo kisi ache kaam me upyug honge. Sambhawan to ye rahati hai ki higher officers puri ki puri chalan book chuhon ko bhaint kar dyen.

 

[rinkusheoran]

Kyonki koi agar pure Rs. 500 ka chalan katawa bhi leta hai to bhi koi grantee nahi ki wo kisi ache kaam me upyug honge. Sambhawan to ye rahati hai ki higher officers puri ki puri chalan book chuhon ko bhaint kar dyen.

ARvind , yahi sari dikkat koi apna kaam na karta assumptions leke jarur chalata, ab khud vo nhi kar rahe ho jo karna chahiye to how you can expect others to do the same?

 

[arvindc]

ARvind , yahi sari dikkat koi apna kaam na karta assumptions leke jarur chalata, ab khud vo nhi kar rahe ho jo karna chahiye to how you can expect others to do the same?

Rinku, the problem of corruption in the system can only be removed from top down. To site an example, for one of the approvals, which as per the department guidelines, should have happened in a three weeks, took me more than an year and more than five visits to the department. Finally, I had to take an assistance from a known person to move the file ahead. Though, I did not paid any bribe money, I realized that I was fighting with wrong people at wrong place.

 

[ssgoyat]

Jab kabhi koi police wala pakad leta hai to har koi 400 bachane k chakar mein 100-200 dene ko tyar rehta hai n galti police wale ki.

Baat to theek hai... par

traffic police wale khud helmet nahi pehante.
traffic pe apne kaam ko dhyaan dene ki jageh apni jeb garm karne pe dhyaan dete hain..jab target ka danda upar se aata hai, tabhi challan book le ke kahde milte hain...kyunki agar ye roj khade rahein to koi voilate nahi karega rule..log helmet pehan na shur na kar denge, traffic rules voilate nahi karenge.. aur agar koi violate nahi karega to kamai kaise hogi?
yahi 400 ka challan wo apne deptt walo ka, chutbhaiyye netao ka kyun nahi kaat te..unko to salaam thokte hain...salam na thokke, unka chalaan kaat de, to transfer ho jata hai...
aur 400 ka challan banane ki jageh khud hi offer dete hain ki theek hai 200 do aur khatam karo... jaao.... to aise me koi kyun 400 bharega, jab 200 me kaam bann raha hai to.


Ek railway ka TT govt perks me clerk ke barabar salary hoti hai..... par system ki wajeh se uski kamaai kitni hoti hai ye sab jaante hain.


System pehle khud sudheraga, tabhi to logo ko sudhaar payega.

 

[rekhasmriti]

"- Make 2 year army tenure compulsory like Israel ."

Baki sab kinda agree , not above point .

 

[ssgoyat]

1.1- Again who sends these ''loopholes'' to the loops to make holes?

1.2- In most MC elections through out the nation ,where supposedly there is urban population , story is the same.

-The one, who takes his cut to offer loophole in drafting policy (who has the authority & responsibility) from his political/business paymasters. The one who wants loopholes to be included.
Why system is so rigid, that policy formation doesn't include public opinion/suggestion by and large.

-Include option of e-voting, so that even if a person changes his constituency/halka, he can have still the option to vote for his home constituency candidates, without the need to travel to his home state.
System is so screwed up, deleting your name from one constituency, and including that into other constituency (different state, due to transfer, job, education) and getting a new voter card is a long, painful n tedious process. And so the metro urban youths, who flock from near by towns n cities (job, education, transfer etc) couldn't cast their vote for a potential good candidate.

This online process of applying for a passport should be extended for votercard, ration card, Driving License and other essential docs.

Better include all the cards (DL, Voter card, Adhaar, Ration card, PAN card etc) in just one photo + address identity card, having a chip that contains a copy of all information (One's personal information, criminal police records, traffic violation records, health records, tax records, all big financial transaction data records, foreign travel records, educational records etc)

 

[ssgoyat]

"- Make 2 year army tenure compulsory like Israel ."

Baki sab kinda agree , not above point .

And why not? Pls offer counter argument

Eg. One counter argument, This training will make negative minded elements a well trained gunda's.
Supporting Argument: Filtration process, background check.

(Don't worry, that's not for everyone and has relaxations. Israel is surrounded by enemy countries and so are we)

 

[rekhasmriti]

Why everyone has to serve in Army for some specific period ?
Most possible statements in favor :
1- Disciplined institution ?
( Is army the only way to teach somebody discipline ).
2- Teach hard core patriotism ?
( So only those who serve in army are patriotics , rest not )
3- Teach one how to use arms ?
( So just to learn that one should join army )
4- Severe situations like war ?
( If everybody would be fighting , who we are protecting then?
5- Self Protection ?
( So one can learn self protection ways only by joining armed forces?)




Lemme rephrase ........
Those who have decided to lead country in a way or another specifically Politics . They should be aware of or experince of the hard ships that Soldiers face to protect their mother land .
Making it mandate I do not think reasonable -----To run a country we need Intelligent Leader who understand issues and good approach on how to find solutions and implementing same not the experience of Gun Shots etc.


Out of curiosity , what purpose would serving in armed forces achieve in creating an Efficient Leader , which somebody can not get otherwise ?

I am not saying joining armed forced how good or best . I just think there are more mandate things required by A LEADER to run a nation , serving in armed forces is .....whatever.....

 

[desijat]

On army factor, I do not think Army in India suffers from lack of applications considering the kind of unemployment we have, There are a billion people in India- of which half are under25, imagine all of them were to become an Army men which I assume will not be free, do you imagine the cost it will put on economy?

 

[rinkusheoran]

Baat to theek hai... par

System pehle khud sudheraga, tabhi to logo ko sudhaar payega.

When i was in school, one of the teacher asked a student what is discipline. let me put that here for you and others. Discipline is something that comes from within not when it is imposed. what ever you have said is one of the ways to look at it Goyat other is view is,log sudhar jayengey to system apne aap sudhar jayega because system is made of and for people not other way round.

Ebb tu nyu bta ki tujhe ek police wala kyun chahiye rules folllow karne k liye, why people give them to opportunity to warm their pockets?if some traffic person is not wearing a helmet please take a picture and now days every district has their Facebook page and you cna post their saying this person was not following rule and next day itslef you will see the challan number that will be issued.In case you dont believe it you can check "https://www.facebook.com/GTPGGN?fref=ts".

One can be pessimist days in and out but end of the days it will take lot of courage for the people to accept the the fact that they are wrong and that is why system is wrong.

 

[rinkusheoran]

do you imagine the cost it will put on economy?

do you imagine the benefit it will give to society and the kind of discipline it will bring? for every investment their return of investment and in this it is very high if it done.

 

[rinkusheoran]

Rinku, the problem of corruption in the system can only be removed from top down. To site an example, for one of the approvals, which as per the department guidelines, should have happened in a three weeks, took me more than an year and more than five visits to the department. Finally, I had to take an assistance from a known person to move the file ahead. Though, I did not paid any bribe money, I realized that I was fighting with wrong people at wrong place.

Arvind, my passport came in 6 month instead of 60 days or may be less but believe me dear the number of emails i wrote on their contact us email id but didnt pay even a single penny and also didnt ask any known person to move file which i could have done. the people sitting in system make use of loopholes but we also have ways in the system itself which we utilize and get the work done.i know it will take some time to move in the same manner it happen in developed country but we are improving. In Punjab, Akali dal-BJP have brought in a law.For example you applied for tubewell connection and if officer is not able to complete it in stipulated time then money will be deducted from his salary.

 

[ssgoyat]

log sudhar jayengey to system apne aap sudhar jayega because system is made of and for people not other way round.

I rephrase it with new view point now.

Jab system ko chalane wale, banane wale sudhenge (sudharega kaun: Khud system: Tough law, speedy trial..)... to system sudherage.... logo ko sudharna hi padega, nahi to wahi system jab sarkari afsaraan aur babuo ko sudhar sakta hai to aam log kya cheez hain.

 

[arvindc]

I rephrase it with new view point now.

Jab system ko chalane wale, banane wale sudhenge (sudharega kaun: Khud system: Tough law, speedy trial..)... to system sudherage.... logo ko sudharna hi padega, nahi to wahi system jab sarkari afsaraan aur babuo ko sudhar sakta hai to aam log kya cheez hain.

One of the probles here is that of the laws and the rules. Most laws are still the same as what Britishers had left. To add, that doesn't mean that new laws are all great.

For example, the requirement of pollution certificate. I have been regularly getting this certificate issued, and it had never failed from past five years. Similar is the case of all others. Whomever I had asked, none of their pollution test has failed. So where is the need for such stringent requirement of getting tested every 2 months for personal vehicles? All this is continuing to suit the interest of the system. It's a known fact that people will forget to get it tested every two months. Hence, the loophole never gets plugged for easy cash into the system.

There are plenty of such loopholes everywhere in the laws which all server the purpose of easy cash for the system. The new IT law is the most absurd of it continues to be big shame for the country all because of this Congress government who enacted it. (PS: and still, some congressi fools here feel proud of the country)

 

[arvindc]

Arvind, my passport came in 6 month instead of 60 days or may be less but believe me dear the number of emails i wrote on their contact us email id but didnt pay even a single penny and also didnt ask any known person to move file which i could have done. the people sitting in system make use of loopholes but we also have ways in the system itself which we utilize and get the work done.i know it will take some time to move in the same manner it happen in developed country but we are improving. In Punjab, Akali dal-BJP have brought in a law.For example you applied for tubewell connection and if officer is not able to complete it in stipulated time then money will be deducted from his salary.

My daughter's passport took one year and three months to arrive and I did the same as you.

However, the big question is did my patience and ordeal that I took changed anything in the systems or the views of any person in passport office. I can bet the impact was nill.

That's why, I now believe, by doing all this we are actually misdirecting our efforts and energies. The reason that people should change first is a myth which we at times assume to be true beacuse of all the bollywood dramas we saw.

 

[ssgoyat]

One of the probles here is that of the laws and the rules. Most laws are still the same as what Britishers had left. To add, that doesn't mean that new laws are all great.

Bhaisab, one more

Maharashtra still has a stupid law (The Bombay Prohibition Act, 1949), the possession, consumption, and transportation of liquor is illegal in the Indian state of Maharashtra without an alcohol permit? The legal age for alcohol consumption is 25 (30 in the district of Wardha), and all residents of the state must obtain an alcohol permit to consume, transport, or possess up to 12 units of alcohol or face a fine of up to INR 50,000 and/or a jail sentence of up to five years.

Police can catch you even if you're consuming alcohol at your home.

In 2010, our college had a fresher's party on the outskirts of Pune. The police misused this law and media gave it a name of RAVE PARTY (celebrating “friendship day”). Many of my batchmates and juniors got caught. Police tried to settle the by bargaining big amount of cut.

And what was the yardstick to measure if one is drunk? they did a manual alcohol test/inspection after 8 hours of detaining them in custody, and just by a look were declaring who should be framed for the charges & who should not.(no breath-alcohol measuring instrument)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iC9AwKnK2po
http://www.punesite.com/city-shattered-with-yet-another-rave-party.html

There was a big uproar, but nothing changed. This law is still here.