Not sure as they target the state machinery in 99% of cases. Haven't heard if they bomb temples, churches, mosques or hotels and malls etc. Haven't heard them planting bombs in markets.
RK^2
For Pseudo-Secular Hindus and Modi baiters
- Thread starter rkumar
- Start date
Not sure as they target the state machinery in 99% of cases. Haven't heard if they bomb temples, churches, mosques or hotels and malls etc. Haven't heard them planting bombs in markets.
RK^2
Nobody here praised Pakistan or sang its fairy tales. You are spinning things to suit yourself.
I agree with this definition, but I think we need to broaden it to include those who instigate or plan the violence instead of only those who indulge in it. Politicians who sit and plan shouldn't be let off just because they don't actually indulge in it.
I agree, India is a reasonably tolerant place and that is why we have been able to absorb people from different faiths and beliefs over the course of thousands of years. However, our tolerance levels do take a major dip every now and then and we have a lot of room for improvement for being tolerant of others opinions, faith and actions.
You make a fair point that terrorism however small it may be, cannot survive without the active/passive support of local community. So for this reason alone you assume most Muslims to be terrorists.
Here's my question to you. Barely 20 years ago, Sikh militancy was thriving in Punjab and went on for a decade. But you called Sikhism a religion of peace a few posts back. Do you to think Sikh militancy had support of most of the community and does this mean we should call Sikhism as a terrorist religion too?
I think just like we can't accurately count the no of terrorists in a religion, we can't count those who support it. Unless we decide to call all those who are silent as terrorists or collaborators as well.
Again, actions of Islamic countries are not an accurate reflection of Islam the religion.
Sure. So we are going to settle this by asking individuals about their opinions? Alright, as soon as I find a person who knows Quran well enough and can answer these questions, I will let you know. Why dont you do the same and then we can come and discuss?
Most religions are stone aged. Their holy books were written according to the times, events and circumstances prevailing at that point of time. To use them verbatim and to draft current laws based on them as its is, is idiotic. Modern thought has to be applied. But again, that comes from the people drafting the laws or in power. So its the followers again.
Again, all of these people and countries with biased interpretations are either mostly uneducated/backward or have political compulsions (like in Pakistan's case) to practice bigotry. Again, its the followers.
I could never have known about Maharaja Ranjeet Singh ruling Lahore. Again, the depths of your knowledge amaze me.
Well, well, it didn't take long for the saffron flag to emerge. Spoken like a well read, right winger.
Aurangzeb was a bigot alright, no doubt about that. Again, he was a follower. There were many others like the Sufi saintsor Arab merchants in the South that spread the religion peacefully
I am branded as a 'Hindu hater' by Abhik anyway, but here's a task for you since you are so fond of giving it to others. Can you calculate the deaths the caste system may have cause for 2500 years among the Shudras? Deaths by forced labor, horrible living conditions, malnutrition, lack of access to routine healthcare etc? And please add to this deaths by fight between Indian (read Hindu) kings before the arrival of Islam. Actually, read a bit about Maratha invasions of the North and the East and their exploitative tax systems. Your myths about the utopia that was Hindu India won't last long.
They have bombed public buses where military personnel were travelling and intimidate villagers who act as police informants. Plus are we saying, some form of violence can be condoned and not termed as terrorism?
What & who is the accurate reflection if ISLAM the religion. Tell me according to you ? 9 to 7 is failed as u are not ready to ask them.
How you want to settle this, choice is all urs ? By Knowing laws of Islamic countries, hearing Islamic scholars or leaders throughout history or by asking any muslim individuals who knows Quran & hadidts ? Or there is any other way ?
I will not do that because I have done it already . If i say ISLAM say that all these people will go to hell coz they worshiped other than ALLAH ,i.e, called SHIRK. The biggest sin according to ISLAM n definitely its scriptures means Quran n Hadidts. You could have understood long back if u believed me that's y here i give you this to confirm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rM34AITAjY8
one of the most celebrated and followed ISLAMIC preacher of modern world across the globe.
Don't try to escape. I think we are talking about ISLAM here . Don't give generic reasoning which is absolutely absurd. You might think that Sikhism is stone aged and at par with ISLAM but i don't think same about HINDUISM as well as SIKHISM. If you are an atheist as you believe all religions are stone aged then declare it. I will come to you accordingly.
Education ? The countries i mentioned many of them are more educated & properous than India. Do you want me to give the list too ? Tell me. Political compulsion, from where it comes? Sky, ocean or beneath earth. It comes from the people living there. Don't say anything just to be in thread.
For you, Just to start with the history of SIKHISM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranjit_Singh
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikh_Empire
Do you remember in one thread I asked u about Zorawar singh & Fateh singh ? but u din't reply. Don't be so weak in SIKHISM at least if you wanna debate on religion.
Aurangzeb was a bigot n he was a follower. You look confused , follower of what Hinduism, Sikhism, Islam , Christianity ? Many others saints, who were they for example ?
I don't know what title u were given on Jatland previously. But I am sure u r not a "Hindu Hater".To hate hindusim one has to read it. It's only lack of knowledge about history, religion & politics. I would rather say you ignore , ignore & ignore and a bit of ego which all of us have to admit something wrong
.I am glad you are concerned about some more human causes like malnutrition, cateism, forced labours ( there is provision of forced labour also in Quran
). But this thread belongs to Pseudo secularism and religious debate so I would like to restrict it upto here. Start a new topic I will definitely reply you there.PS: Did you talk about some saffron flag, then listen color of SIKH empire flag was Saffron. Hindu India lasted the Muslim invasion, persecution & rule of almost many centuries like no other nation or religion could do. It will last forever n ever n ever.
Will request all of you to read the article below published in Tribune Express of Pakistan;
http://tribune.com.pk/story/609239/justifying-the-killing-of-christians/
This article by most respected Pakistani author Ayesha Siddiqa should be an eye opener to all Pseudo Seculars.
RK^2
http://tribune.com.pk/story/609239/justifying-the-killing-of-christians/
This article by most respected Pakistani author Ayesha Siddiqa should be an eye opener to all Pseudo Seculars.
RK^2
There is no one 'accurate' description of a religion. It means different things to everyone of the followers.
I have had conversations with practicing Muslims in the past and even they say there's a lot of confusion with Quaran's teachings. It all depends on how you view it.
My reasoning is absurd and you are the logical guru here? Yes, most religions are stone aged. At least their original teachings are. I haven't studied Hinduism in detail as it hardly has one definition as a religion. But yes, lets open another thread and have a discussion.
Sikhism, from what I have studied is fairly modern as compared to others as it imbibes a lot of influences from other religions that have come before. And that is why I said - most religions.
My theism, atheism or agnosticism is none of your business.
I said backward too. AN educated person can be backward as well. It just requires a person with modern thinking like Attaturk to galvanize their people and seperate state from religion. Clearly the countries you mentioned haven't done that.
I am weak in every aspect as compared to you Rathiji. Your knowledge on history and religion far outclasses mine. You mean there was actually a Sikh empire? WOW! I cant thank you enough for these links. You have opened my eyes.
So you haven't heard of Sufi saints and the people who converted to Islam under them? How is this possible for a great student of religion and history? Never mind. Try reading this and understand how it shaped India's culture http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufism_in_India
I don't know what title u were given on Jatland previously. But I am sure u r not a "Hindu Hater".To hate hindusim one has to read it. It's only lack of knowledge about history, religion & politics. I would rather say you ignore , ignore & ignore and a bit of ego which all of us have to admit something wrong
As I said before, I lack knowledge on history, religion and politics. I am still learning these things, a student - just like the true meaning of the word Sikh. Therefore please feel free to share nuggets from your vast knowledge database.
Who is trying to escape now? Does this thread have Islam in its title? Its has no defined scope. Pseudo-seculars and Modi haiters is as general and wide ranging a topic as any.I am glad you are concerned about some more human causes like malnutrition, cateism, forced labours ( there is provision of forced labour also in Quran
So let me know when you can find answers to the questions I posed to you.
Really? Sikh empire's flag was saffron too? I am again amazed at the depths of you knowledge.
Btw, your saffron is the chaddi wala saffron.
I am sure it will. Hindu India had the courage and the flexibility to adapt, mould and change itself according to whoever entered its boundaries - saint, trader or invader. And it still retains its pluralistic culture. Not many nations in the world can claim that. It suffers from bouts of intolerance and violence owing to severe ego crunch and a desire to claim its perceived rights. But after centuries of subjugation, that is understandable.
prashantacmet
New member
Swaich ji.........have you studied the kuran in detail?.
Who defines the religion? The book, the person whom they follow, the teachings. The Quran is the word of 'bhagwan' for Muslims and to follow it in letter and spirit is Islam for them. Anyone who doesn’t agree with Quran isn’t Muslims anyway. Most of the Muslim follow or try to follow Sharia (and sharia is based on Quran and Mohammad’s life and examples set by him). A person who follow Sharia is considered a good Musalman. Sunnah is the ideal way of life. Quran has defined everything and is very detailed from the way of worship to the way of food habits, to the way of banking (Islamic banking), to the way of hygiene (circumcise etc.). Quran is final word and it cannot be changed as per Islam.
The person who doesn’t follow these 1000 years old rule (They might interpret it differently for argument sake) isn’t even considered Muslim and it appears as per you if they do follow they are idiots. So are we saying majority of Muslims are idiot because they follow 1000 years old rules?
P.S: For me neither the religion followers are stupid nor the atheist are smarter.
No. Is anybody who can claim that on JL?
rajpaldular
Active member
1. "अगर सेक्यूलर होने का मतलब हिन्दू विरोध है तो मैँ सेक्यूलर नहीं हूँ..!"
2. "अगर सेक्यूलर होने का मतलब मुस्लिम तुष्टीकरण है तो मैं सेक्यूलर नहीं हूँ..!"
3. "अगर सेक्यूलर होने का मतलब
गोधरा को अनदेखा करके सिर्फ गुजरात पर रोना है तो मैं सेक्यूलर नहीं हूँ..!"
4. "अगर सेक्यूलर होने का मतलब हज पर सब्सिडी और अमरनाथ, वैष्णो देवी और कुम्भ यात्राओं पर टैक्स लगाना है तो मैं सेक्यूलर नहीं हूँ..!"
5. "अगर सेक्यूलर होने का मतलब अरबी भाषा के विकास के लिए अनुदान देना और संस्कृत भाषा की अनदेखी करना है तो मैं सेक्यूलर नहीं हूँ..!"
6. "अगर सेक्यूलर होने का मतलब 'सिर्फ मुस्लिम लड़कियां ही मेरी बेटियां हैं' कहना है तो मैं सेक्यूलर नहीं हूँ..!"
7. "अगर सेक्युलर होने का मतलब जामा मस्जिद का ४ करोड़ का बिजली बिल माफ़ करना और आम गरीब आदमी की बिजली मात्र १५५ रुपये के बकाये के लिए काट देना है, तो मैं सेक्यूलर नहीं हूँ..!"
8. "अगर सेक्यूलर होने का मतलब मुग़लों के हर छोटी से छोटी इमारतों को बचाना और लाखों साल पुराने रामसेतु को तोडना है, तो मैं सेक्यूलर नहीं हूँ..!"
9. "अगर सेक्यूलर होने का मतलब शहीदों के सर को कटवाने वाले पाकिस्तानी प्रधानमंत्री को भोज देना है, तो मैं सेक्यूलर नहीं हूँ..!"
10. "अगर सेक्यूलर होने का मतलब २४ परगना में हुए हिन्दुओं के ऊपर बर्बर हमलों को मीडिया में नहीं आने देना है तो मैं सेक्यूलर नहीं हूँ..!"
11. "अगर सेक्यूलर होने का मतलब 'वन्दे-मातरम्' का विरोध करने वालों का साथ देना है तो मैं सेक्यूलर नहीं हूँ..!"
12. "अगर सेक्यूलर होने का मतलब तिरंगे का अपमान करने वालों का साथ देना है तो मैं सेक्यूलर नहीं हूँ..!"
13. "अगर सेक्यूलर होने का मतलब डी.डी. नेशनल के लोगो से 'सत्यम शिवम् सुन्दरम्' हटाना है, तो मैं सेक्युलर नहीं हूँ..!"
14. "अगर सेक्यूलर होने का मतलब हिन्दुओं को आतंकवादी और हाफिज सईद तथा ओसामा बिन लादेन को सम्माननीय शब्दों से संबोधित करना है तो मैं सेक्यूलर नहीं हूँ..!"
2. "अगर सेक्यूलर होने का मतलब मुस्लिम तुष्टीकरण है तो मैं सेक्यूलर नहीं हूँ..!"
3. "अगर सेक्यूलर होने का मतलब
गोधरा को अनदेखा करके सिर्फ गुजरात पर रोना है तो मैं सेक्यूलर नहीं हूँ..!"
4. "अगर सेक्यूलर होने का मतलब हज पर सब्सिडी और अमरनाथ, वैष्णो देवी और कुम्भ यात्राओं पर टैक्स लगाना है तो मैं सेक्यूलर नहीं हूँ..!"
5. "अगर सेक्यूलर होने का मतलब अरबी भाषा के विकास के लिए अनुदान देना और संस्कृत भाषा की अनदेखी करना है तो मैं सेक्यूलर नहीं हूँ..!"
6. "अगर सेक्यूलर होने का मतलब 'सिर्फ मुस्लिम लड़कियां ही मेरी बेटियां हैं' कहना है तो मैं सेक्यूलर नहीं हूँ..!"
7. "अगर सेक्युलर होने का मतलब जामा मस्जिद का ४ करोड़ का बिजली बिल माफ़ करना और आम गरीब आदमी की बिजली मात्र १५५ रुपये के बकाये के लिए काट देना है, तो मैं सेक्यूलर नहीं हूँ..!"
8. "अगर सेक्यूलर होने का मतलब मुग़लों के हर छोटी से छोटी इमारतों को बचाना और लाखों साल पुराने रामसेतु को तोडना है, तो मैं सेक्यूलर नहीं हूँ..!"
9. "अगर सेक्यूलर होने का मतलब शहीदों के सर को कटवाने वाले पाकिस्तानी प्रधानमंत्री को भोज देना है, तो मैं सेक्यूलर नहीं हूँ..!"
10. "अगर सेक्यूलर होने का मतलब २४ परगना में हुए हिन्दुओं के ऊपर बर्बर हमलों को मीडिया में नहीं आने देना है तो मैं सेक्यूलर नहीं हूँ..!"
11. "अगर सेक्यूलर होने का मतलब 'वन्दे-मातरम्' का विरोध करने वालों का साथ देना है तो मैं सेक्यूलर नहीं हूँ..!"
12. "अगर सेक्यूलर होने का मतलब तिरंगे का अपमान करने वालों का साथ देना है तो मैं सेक्यूलर नहीं हूँ..!"
13. "अगर सेक्यूलर होने का मतलब डी.डी. नेशनल के लोगो से 'सत्यम शिवम् सुन्दरम्' हटाना है, तो मैं सेक्युलर नहीं हूँ..!"
14. "अगर सेक्यूलर होने का मतलब हिन्दुओं को आतंकवादी और हाफिज सईद तथा ओसामा बिन लादेन को सम्माननीय शब्दों से संबोधित करना है तो मैं सेक्यूलर नहीं हूँ..!"
Vipin bhai, I have heard many people say that Quran is not only contradictory but many of the so called controversial aspects attributed to Quran are included in 'Hadiths' which aren't a part of the original Quran but added later or their origin is unknown.
Most of the world's religions go beyond just religious thoughts and prescribe a way of living. Their spirit can be imbibed in every aspect of life. This is specially true of Hinduism which is often defined as more of a culture rather than a definite religion. We all have to take the teachings of our respective religions in spirit and not in letter, because the letter is ancient, poetic and open to interpretation. I am sure you'll agree that this is true with most religions.
Yes! studied Quran with Sunnah ,i.e, Hadidts & Sira . That's why i always asked you to give emphasis on understanding the religion because once your read it & understand it all misconception will be cleared.
Will be replying you on the previous post with more details.
That is what I meant when I said, people often confuse them as written in Quran. They are the most controversial and conflicting.
Honestly, the very premise of Quran is that a guy spent some time on a hill (or was it a cave) and these teachings came to him as a revelation from God. That is where I'd stop listening to the Mullah
But then again, most religious books are very different from rational modern thought. You have to have faith in them to believe them.Great. Look forward to it.
What is original & duplicate Quran ? Let me make it clear to you and amaze u as always to get ur praise, There is only one Quran . According to ISLAM The holy Quran is not made by any man It was a revelation by all merciful ALLAH to the Prophet Mohammmad ( Peace be upon him
) through the angel Gabriel in 23 years. ALLAH the merciful started revelation when Mohammad (PBUH ) for 40 and continued it till his death. The holy Quran is protected by almighty ALLAH himself. It can never be changed or distorted. It is in the purest form & will be till the Final Day of Judgement ( Qayamat ). Whatever I said , I said it like a Muslim so there are many PBUH and glorifications
. This can be checked with any ISLAM follower across the globe . According to you Hadidits origin is unknown and Ouran's origin is known. See above how Quran came and if you believe the story then you know origin.
Now come to Hadidts are part of SUNNAH based on lifestyle & preaching of Mohammad and the way he used to interpret Quran. So according to me at least the origin of Hadidts is known and I can believe that.
Now come to Hindusim, It is not for only those who call them Hindus or those who strictly follow one particular book, prophet or one particular god, pray in one particular direction, talk with god in one particular language, go to pilgrimage at one particular location etc etc. Hindusim whatever anyone can define culture or religion it is for all humanity & mankind. You told you didn't read about Hinduism much so just start with RigVeda, the oldest religious text available to mankind.
It's the Khalifa who are the problem not the source. I don't think that people believe that they are written in Quran but yes in early Islam era lot of different Hadith emerged. Different people believe different Hadiths.
You are right in a sense when you say there are different interpretation of Quran but I think here you want to say that they believe in different Hadiths. Two major branches of these are Shia and Sunni.
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