Cordial relations vanished as soon as they got the first opportunity to divide the country based on religion, within one year of death of Ch ChhotuRam. No point in living in the imaginary world.
Jats must Avoid falling prey to Communal hateredness
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Cordial relations vanished as soon as they got the first opportunity to divide the country based on religion, within one year of death of Ch ChhotuRam. No point in living in the imaginary world.
Vikas,
On a lighter note....Secular word se kuch fellow jatlanders issa muh bana le hai jissa kisse police aale ne mama keh do jab wo banaya kare
drrajpalsingh
New member
That is why kindly remember : What we do today will be history tomorrow, so we must try to be just, fair and reasonable [ to at least to ourselves] in what we are up to accomplish and do no fall prey to divisive forces at play at times for short term gains active all over the world !
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drrajpalsingh
New member
The partition tragedy remains indeed a big catastrophe to harm the prevalence of cordial relationship among the people of the country.
But better sense must prevail and efforts must continue to revive and sustain communal harmony and ushering in the era of better relations among the citizens of India.
It is hoped that the present temporary 'acrimony' among relationship among people at a few places in the country will also fade away as has rightly been said if winter comes the spring is not far behind !
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dr, you are right, but our community is not communal, infact we harm each other more, we talk more do nothing for the community, there is time to be together in the interest of the community, we must learn from others, but we have to be intelligent and helpful to each other, which is the requirement of the day
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sahij
Guest
I think, in every thinking Jat (read Indian) mind there is a big conflict. There are variety of forces at work. In the end, we have to decide whether we consider ourselves the descendants or vanshdhars of ideals precipitated in our mind by invoking names such as Ram, Krishan, etc. or by Muhammad, and his ilk. Or that whether we consider ourselves to be descendants of a civilization 5000, 7000 or may be even 12000 years old or that which is 1400 years old with the most venomous history. Etc.
Clearly these are conflicting ideals. They have as much in common as 0 and 1 do in computing parlance. In the end, if somebody tries to find a commonality, somebody can find a commonality between 0 and 1 as well - saying that at least both are numbers (and that in fact is what "secular" people do). But I would say who are you trying to delude with that! If these ideals are the same than why don't all Muslims become Hindus or vice-versa, and for what did we fought against islam for 1000 years (and still do)? Clearly, when you talk about Hinduism and Islam - there is more than "a path to God" - whatever that means. While it may or may not be true that all paths lead to God (or indeed whether there is such a thing as God or not), but certainly Islam (or Hinduism for that matter) is more than merely a "path to God" - and that is where the conflict lies. So trying to fool ourselves that all are the same doesn't really cut ice - you can pretend that it does as much as you want - but it doesn't.
Just to give an example, do even the non-vegetarian Jats approve bali of animals in the name of Hinduism (let alone Islam)? Can we really coexist with a neighbor who goes on a butchering spree every Durga Puja. What about muslims, who kill the cows venerated nonetheless, if not held sacred by us, and that too in the most brutal halal manner? Can Jats really come to terms with such cruelty? In one scenario, we can actually, that is if we become hypocrites like Brahmins and Banias - who say something and have something else on their mind. But in that case we will have to drop singing bards of our Independent character, etc. But do you really want to become the same as Brahmins in the name of secularism? That is your choice to make, whether you want to become exponent of so-called ganga-jamuni tahzib - where everything is allowed as long as you can go through your life - much like a worm - in the name of secularism.
Now, coming to Muslim Jats: They have already made a choice. And barring a few desolate individuals, they largely have their loyalties to Arabian values - which are at extreme odds with our values BTW. Even if they are proud of their Jat ancestry, they clearly don't think that to be in anyway a strong binding glue vis-a-vis Hindu Jats, at least not strong enough when compared with fellow Muslims. The same thing is true in case of Pakistanis. Most Pakistanis very well know that they were Hindus once, but does that make them think even for a moment when they carry out all those terrorist activities against descendents of their own ancestors. Aren't the same Afghan inhabitants destroying (or rather destroyed) same Bamyan Buddha - whom there ancestors must have built with great toil and effort. Essentially Islam is destruction of local culture, and its complete replacement with Islamic culture - sometimes gradual and sometimes abrupt. And thus the Muslim Jats in general feel no nostalgia.
It is only non-Muslim Jats who keep on clinging to this nostalgia. We even hear the invocation of Chhotu Ram, Sikandar Hyat, etc. What about so many wars we fought against Muslims? Do they disappear without trace in secular parlance? Does the fact that we fought for so many years with Muslims and Mughals mean nothing to us now?
We also hear how Hindu and Muslim Jats used to live in one mohalla, and how they all went together to all social events. If that was the case, why at all were they Muslims in the first place, is the question. If they have to do all things that are Hindu, why do they need themselves to be labelled Muslim at all? The real answer lies in the fact that one group of people takes 10 generations to radicalize, and the other one can take 20. But, once a group of people is under the influence of Islam they or their posterity will radicalize nonetheless on one pretext or another (BTW, these pretexts are often called grievances). Somebody has aptly pointed out how things played out in Muzaffarnagar and Pakistan, and about the role of the same mullay Jats - the once live-in-mohalla-partners.
Clearly these are conflicting ideals. They have as much in common as 0 and 1 do in computing parlance. In the end, if somebody tries to find a commonality, somebody can find a commonality between 0 and 1 as well - saying that at least both are numbers (and that in fact is what "secular" people do). But I would say who are you trying to delude with that! If these ideals are the same than why don't all Muslims become Hindus or vice-versa, and for what did we fought against islam for 1000 years (and still do)? Clearly, when you talk about Hinduism and Islam - there is more than "a path to God" - whatever that means. While it may or may not be true that all paths lead to God (or indeed whether there is such a thing as God or not), but certainly Islam (or Hinduism for that matter) is more than merely a "path to God" - and that is where the conflict lies. So trying to fool ourselves that all are the same doesn't really cut ice - you can pretend that it does as much as you want - but it doesn't.
Just to give an example, do even the non-vegetarian Jats approve bali of animals in the name of Hinduism (let alone Islam)? Can we really coexist with a neighbor who goes on a butchering spree every Durga Puja. What about muslims, who kill the cows venerated nonetheless, if not held sacred by us, and that too in the most brutal halal manner? Can Jats really come to terms with such cruelty? In one scenario, we can actually, that is if we become hypocrites like Brahmins and Banias - who say something and have something else on their mind. But in that case we will have to drop singing bards of our Independent character, etc. But do you really want to become the same as Brahmins in the name of secularism? That is your choice to make, whether you want to become exponent of so-called ganga-jamuni tahzib - where everything is allowed as long as you can go through your life - much like a worm - in the name of secularism.
Now, coming to Muslim Jats: They have already made a choice. And barring a few desolate individuals, they largely have their loyalties to Arabian values - which are at extreme odds with our values BTW. Even if they are proud of their Jat ancestry, they clearly don't think that to be in anyway a strong binding glue vis-a-vis Hindu Jats, at least not strong enough when compared with fellow Muslims. The same thing is true in case of Pakistanis. Most Pakistanis very well know that they were Hindus once, but does that make them think even for a moment when they carry out all those terrorist activities against descendents of their own ancestors. Aren't the same Afghan inhabitants destroying (or rather destroyed) same Bamyan Buddha - whom there ancestors must have built with great toil and effort. Essentially Islam is destruction of local culture, and its complete replacement with Islamic culture - sometimes gradual and sometimes abrupt. And thus the Muslim Jats in general feel no nostalgia.
It is only non-Muslim Jats who keep on clinging to this nostalgia. We even hear the invocation of Chhotu Ram, Sikandar Hyat, etc. What about so many wars we fought against Muslims? Do they disappear without trace in secular parlance? Does the fact that we fought for so many years with Muslims and Mughals mean nothing to us now?
We also hear how Hindu and Muslim Jats used to live in one mohalla, and how they all went together to all social events. If that was the case, why at all were they Muslims in the first place, is the question. If they have to do all things that are Hindu, why do they need themselves to be labelled Muslim at all? The real answer lies in the fact that one group of people takes 10 generations to radicalize, and the other one can take 20. But, once a group of people is under the influence of Islam they or their posterity will radicalize nonetheless on one pretext or another (BTW, these pretexts are often called grievances). Somebody has aptly pointed out how things played out in Muzaffarnagar and Pakistan, and about the role of the same mullay Jats - the once live-in-mohalla-partners.
Going by sahij's logic, Vegetarian Jats cannot live with anyone because around the world lot of population is NON Vegetarian. Therefore all the HINDU Vegetarian Jats around the world must leave those countries immediately. Probably NON Vegetarian JATS would need to renounce Hindu religion as soon as possible. Yeah this is the ordinance of some IDIOT you need to abide by.
No, he is not an Islamic preacher. You have a choice. Unlike, your religion of peace where Muhammad is the final messenger, Koran is the final word & hadidts are the way of life. You can't dare to disobey it.
Like, No Brahmin can force me to obey any of the god commandments written in any of the religious texts. I will make decision on my choice what to follow what to discard & criticize.
S
sahij
Guest
So here we are again, this supposed Jat individual indulges in unprovoked name calling to Jats on this forum. And then will come cowering in praise of muslims all over this forum.
Regardless, I just gave an example, there are innumerable such issues, I don't need to enumerate them. In real life people are different, even two children of same parents are, and we have to make adjustments. The question is how much does one bend backwards for that.
Moreover, it is interesting that you take so much offense to my one small example, but Quran, Hadith, etc. is filled will absolute venom and hate for all kafirs (which BTW is more than two-thirds of humanity even now) and if we include muslim women - for more than 5/6 of humanity - and the good old solution mentioned is to either convert or die. And yet there is little or no worry for you in that! What bland hypocrisy!
And finally, you don't need to go by my logic. You can suck up to mullahs as much as you want - it doesn't really matter to me - nor do you!
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ayushkadyan
Member
Bhai..you took my words I wanted to post it..very well said and differentiated the way of life of two religions with simplest word.:tears_of_joy:
Ok, so what type of preacher is he?
Do you decide or he decides?
Thanks for your conclusion on what I obey or disobey.
Tomorrow you will also give more judgement around what I eat, What I drink, What I do etc etc.
You know everything about me and others in this world. Antaryami saheb.
OK Sir, now you are the interpreter, whole world need to listen. Not sure about hate and venom but one thing is very evident. There is an immense hate and venom in your posts about Muslims.
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sahij
Guest
Hahaha, you can go to any length to distort some argument don't you. What about Quran which considers non-muslims descendents of pigs and apes - unfit to even remain alive? Will you "condemn" Quran? Or will you hide behind the garb of lack of context?
And now to burst your small little bubble, I myself am non-vegetarian (though a very rare one). LOL. So get over your trying to distort my argument. In fact, I never said even a single word against non-vegetarianism or non-vegetarians - read again!
I don't go into someone's religious affairs. I cannot stoop as low as you can. This shows your education and background!
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sahij
Guest
खरब साब, आपने वास्तविकता को फरमाया और उचित टिप्पणी की.....
प्राकृतिक रूप से जाट कभी भी धार्मिक उन्मादी नही रहा है .... पर जैसे की प्रकृति पर जलवायु परिवर्तन के बदलावो, का कुछ न कुछ असर हो रहा है ... वैसे ही देश मे समय के साथ बदलते सामजिक-राजनैतिक ताने बाने का असर देश-समाज महसूस कर रहा है....जाट भी इसी समाज का हिस्सा है | असल वैसे भी देशी जाट (किसान) खुद्दार और मनमौजी रहा है... किसी की नही सुनता, और पढे-लिखे जाटों को कहावतों में खुदा के समान बताया गया है और गाँव-घर वाले भी पढे लिखे की बात कम ही सुनते है॥.... जाटलेंड जो सभी पठे लिखे लोगों का अड्डा है टाईम पास या दिल की भड़ास निकालने का एक जरिया मात्र है॥
............
प्राकृतिक रूप से जाट कभी भी धार्मिक उन्मादी नही रहा है .... पर जैसे की प्रकृति पर जलवायु परिवर्तन के बदलावो, का कुछ न कुछ असर हो रहा है ... वैसे ही देश मे समय के साथ बदलते सामजिक-राजनैतिक ताने बाने का असर देश-समाज महसूस कर रहा है....जाट भी इसी समाज का हिस्सा है | असल वैसे भी देशी जाट (किसान) खुद्दार और मनमौजी रहा है... किसी की नही सुनता, और पढे-लिखे जाटों को कहावतों में खुदा के समान बताया गया है और गाँव-घर वाले भी पढे लिखे की बात कम ही सुनते है॥.... जाटलेंड जो सभी पठे लिखे लोगों का अड्डा है टाईम पास या दिल की भड़ास निकालने का एक जरिया मात्र है॥
............
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sahij
Guest
LOL. Yes you will only go into somebody's education and background! And indulge in name calling that is all!
Yes I agree with you. There are vested interest who could go to any extent to divide communities. These short gains in politics will create long term losses.
He is just an individual and having the same closeness with god like you & me. Koi Quran koi mulla koi muhammad bhagwan ka rishtedaar nahi hai. Do you think that Quran is perfect word of god ? if don't know then don't claim it to be just another religion. If there is anything wrong in the preaching of any religion we must ensure to discard & criticize it to maintain peace & tranquility in society inhabited by human beings. Talk only if you know otherwise suck up to mullas.
If someone's religious affair treats you , your father , mother, loved ones as "kafir" ,who will burn in hell ??? You will take note of it or not ? If they say ur family is filthy & will be punished by almighty because they don't follow one religious book and a paedophile messenger. I reject Quran as a word of god as i read it & understood it. What is ur say ?
You have quite a good knowledge of Islam, it's history, architecture & empires start a new thread I will teach u Quran & hadits.
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