पी एम हो तो मोदी जैसा...........

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desijat said:
The myth called Gujarat

It shows the deep sense of insecurity and, to some extent, an inferiority complex, among the easily excitable followers of Gujarat chief minister Narendra Modi, that they feast over statistics of investment commitments made by businesses and government officials at the Vibrant Gujarat Summit.
The emphasis is on who came (European governments) and who didn’t (some public sector undertakings) and who left quietly (delegates from Pakistan), than the more real achievement of Modi—winning a fourth electoral term. And that’s because the cult surrounding Modi takes the voters for granted, and is eager to earn accolades from abroad.
Witness the laughable mobilization a year ago, to get people to vote for Modi as one of the most influential people in the world, in Time magazine. Recall their thrill when a foreign publication considers him as a leader to watch. Look at the excitement when in a cable leaked on WikiLeaks, an American diplomat interprets Modi’s popularity and Gujarat’s growth, while ignoring the same government’s criticism of Gujarat’s handling of 2002 riots in similar cables. And notice their deep sense of dejection that in spite of lobbying the US government, its State Department simply won’t issue the man a visa, so that he can address motel owners in Hoboken, New Jersey, or Paris, Texas, or Kansas City, Kansas. Indeed, it is pathetic when a leader is considered to have arrived if the US government lets him in. (And so what if it did? Americans don’t vote in India’s national elections.)
It is in that context that I find the excitement in Gandhinagar and Ahmedabad over getting Britain to “re-establish” contact with the Gujarat government amusing. First, Britain has relations with India, not with its individual states. Britain doesn’t exchange ambassadors with sub-sovereign entities, which Gujarat is. The excitement over the presence of Patricia Hewitt, an opposition leader in Britain (it should be remembered), and the High Commissioner, at the Vibrant Gujarat Summit has a symbolic value. It does not imply that millions of pounds of investment will follow. Nor does it mean Britain now actively encourages investment in Gujarat over other states. If it did discourage it, not many people appeared to know that. In the past decade alone, dozens of British companies have invested in Gujarat, in spite of the so-called “boycott” of Gujarat’s political leadership, just as they have invested in other parts of India and beyond. British Gas had set up shop in the 1990s, and Formica has been around since 1962. If the British government did not want companies to invest in India, clearly Mott MacDonald (in 2000), Cairn Energy (since 2003), D&H Engineering (since 2005), HR Wallingford (in 2007), and Shell, among others, didn’t get that memo.
And which is as it should be, because “directed” investment never does much good to investors, and investors voting with their wallets inevitably make smarter decisions than investors voting as per government diktats. Just as comprehensive, blunt sanctions are counter-productive, so are decisions made when influenced by the state.
And at no stage over the past decade did Britain prevent business ties with Gujarat, as the partial list of British companies investing in Gujarat shows. None was prevented from access to credit, or export finance, or any other domestic incentives in the UK. Read high commissioner James Bevan’s speech closely: there’s not one direct, personal, effusive mention of Modi of the sort captains of Indian industry handed him, as though they were addressing a Gandhi scion and were members of the Congress Working Committee; in Bevan’s speech, there is deserved fulsome praise for the state’s people’s dynamism; there is a call to forge closer ties. If Modi’s fans think it is an endorsement, I won’t interrupt their dream. Indeed, the ties are bilateral—many Gujarat-based businesses have invested in Britain, in sectors such as pharmaceuticals, software, healthcare, and engineering. The return of Britain to Gujarat is, to paraphrase the Bard, Much Ado About a Routine Thing.
Investors who have put their money in Gujarat have done so because it makes sense, just as those putting money in other states have. For a state as soundly administered since its formation over 50 years ago with an infrastructure that was always superior to its neighbours; a bureaucracy that had always been cooperative to entrepreneurs; where large projects were the norm since Amul, since Gujarat State Financial Corporation mobilized resources; since one of the country’s first export zones was set up here and with its vast coastline and seafaring culture, it would require spectacular incompetence to mess things up.
Modi’s chief characteristic appears to lie in letting people do what they want—be they businesses seeking profit, or—let us be honest about it—be they people seeking revenge

(Mint article)
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Damn, these sickular intellectuals are everywhere!
 
kapdal said:

भाई क्यूट, या तो तू पढ़ लेता, या फेर हांड लेता - यो न्यू जी लैंड घणी सुथरी कंट्री बतायी - पर एह मेरे यार तू भी निरा ही है

मेरी नानी कहा करती की ढेढ़ ने ढेढ़ गंगाजी पे टोह ले
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Bhai sirf itna bolunga ki jissa tera gott se ussi ee tu baat kare he;-)
 
An open letter to Madhu Purnima Kishwar: Zahir Janmohamed (Kafila.org)

Dear Madhu ji,I was very excited when I learned you were coming to Ahmedabad and I was honoured that you expressed interest in possibly meeting with me.I was sitting with a journalist friend when I read your Tweet about visiting Ahmedabad and he told me you are a “pioneering feminist who did ground breaking work.” He also told me that in 2005 you signed a very strong petition calling for Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi’s dismissal because of Modi’s role in the 2002 Gujarat riots. He also added that you have been veryvocal on behalf of Kashmiri Pandits. After I witnessed the Gujarat riots in 2002, I returned to the United States—where I was born and raised—and I gave lectures for six months about the violence I saw. In each lecture, an audience member would inevitably shout at me that I have ignored the plight of the Kashmiri Pandits. It is true. I know very little about Kashmir, and for that matter Kashmiri Pandits, and I would have enjoyed and benefited from listening to your views on the conflict there.I understand from your Twitter feed that you have left Ahmedabad. I know your days in Ahmedabad were limited and I fully understand that you were not able to meet. Therefore in this letter I will try to convey some of the things I had hoped to tell you in person, in particular about your Tweets.I am pleased that you have enjoyed your stay in Ahmedabad. To quote some of your remarks:
@madhukishwar: Friends say auto rickshaws never refuse passengers, never over charge in Ahmadabad or elsewhere in Gujarat. Why are Delhi autos lawless?@madhukishwar: Photographs of young men and women past mid night having soda in Ahmedabad. Young men don’t have menacing presence@madhukishwar: North Indian friends I’m staying with in Ahmedabad took me for midnight drive to see how safe is gujarat for women- even on highway.@madhukishwar: I am out on Ahmedabad streets past 1 am enjoying uniquely satvic nightlife of Gujarat. Will write more about it​
Indeed, Gujaratis are exceptional with their hospitality and kindness. As a Gujarati whose grandparents are from Kutch, I am pleased you feel welcome here.But I take exception to your comment that women are safe in Gujarat or that “young men don’t have menacing presence.”According to the National Crime Bureau, the number of rapes in Gujarat increased from 408 cases in 2010 to 439 in 2011. When we look at other forms of violence like dowry deaths, this number becomes more staggering.
From the Indian Express, March 28, 2008:
In a span of twelve years, more than 50,000 cases of violence against women have been reported from 12 districts of Gujarat. With 640 dowry deaths and 1,443 rape cases, the chart is topped by a staggering 14,998 cases of cruelty by husband and in-laws, followed by accidental deaths which is pegged at 14,631.​
The article cites a report from an NGO called Navsarjan that conducted research in 12 districts in Gujarat during a twelve year period (1995-2007). According to the report, “7894 women committed suicide and 3,006 women were abducted during this period in these districts.”In a December 28, 2012 story, DNA reported that in Gujarat only 1 out of 5 got life term for rape and that in over 50% of the cases, the rapist had to serve only 6 to 10 years in prison. Just this week, IBN-Live reported that an ex-MLA’s nephew and three friends gang raped a girl for over three years.
I recognize that these numbers might be better than other states in India but the statistics show that violence against women in Gujarat is increasing.At a forum I attended this weekend sponsored by Apna Adda called “Rape and Me,” female students from various universities in Ahmedabad said they no longer feel comfortable going out alone or with only girls at night. One said she had faced so much sexual harassment in Gujarat that she is now advising girls to take self-defence classes. Another young woman told me that at her college an elderly man flashed his genitals to her on three occasions. She said she rarely goes out past dark alone for fear of these incidents happening again.Parents at this forum on Saturday—many of whom were born and raised in Ahmedabad—said Gujarat was not always like this and that it is getting progressively worse. I am happy that you felt comfortable staying out as a woman at 2 am. In my two years of research, I have met very few women in Gujarat who would say the same.
 
An open letter to Madhu Purnima Kishwar: Zahir Janmohamed (Kafila.org) (contd.)

However the main reason I write to you, Madhu ji, is to take issue with your Tweets about the “inclusive development of Gujarat”. Some of your tweets:
@madhukishwar: Modi sure knows how to address and strengthen self esteem of his people. Give hope and confidence@madhukishwar: 2\4 If I as much as say Gujarat roads are best in country, see Modi’s inclusive development for urself I become political untouchable. Why?@madhukishwar: Those upset at my Gujrat observations: challenge me on facts. Don’t hurl ideology or prejudice at me. I’ll be 1st to apologise 4 inaccuracy​
Since you have requested facts, here are some to consider.In an article in the Business Standard, Mihir Sharma takes issue with the notion that Gujarat is growing at a much faster rate than other states. He writes:
…between 2004 and 2012, Gujarat’s GDP growth left the national average, 8.3 per cent, far behind. It grew at 10.1 per cent. But, in the same period, Maharashtra grew at 10.8 per cent and Tamil Nadu at 10.3 per cent.​
Sharma acknowledges that Gujarat has grown faster during the period of Modi’s rule but its rate of growth has not been as impressive as in other states:Gujarat in 2004-12 grew 3.6 per cent faster than it did in 1994-2002. Meanwhile, Bihar grew 6.5 per cent faster, if from a lower base. But better-off Maharashtra’s growth was 5.8 per cent faster in that period, and Tamil Nadu’s was 4.7 per cent.As a resident of Ahmedabad, I have seen much of the progress myself, something Sharma acknowledges in his piece. But should Modi be given credit for Gujarat’s successes yet be given a clean sheet for the state’s failures? Sharma notes:Still, is this chief minister somehow special? The evidence seems indisputable that Gujarat’s bureaucracy is responsive, decentralised and innovative. It is possible that Mr Modi is somehow personally responsible for this; Professor Debroy says to deny him all credit would be unfair and uncharitable. I agree. Though I do note that less objective observers of Mr Modi than Professor (Bibek) Debroy are hypocritically happy to suggest that he is individually responsible for the emplacement of every handpump in north Gujarat, but somehow had nothing whatsoever to do with the complete failure of the entire state machinery in 2002.In an article in Rediff, Shivam Vij writes cautions against simple explanations of Gujarat’s growth. He writes:
Look at the per capita net state domestic product, a better indicator of prosperity than the mere rate of growth. Gujarat has been occupying 6th or 7th rank on this list since the early ’70s and it’s not as if Narendra Modi’s leadership made Gujarat jump up to the top end of the list.​
Given your claim of “inclusive” development in Gujarat, I want to point out to you some more numbers:According to a study by Rakesh Basant of the IIM Ahmedabad University entitled “Education and Employment among Muslims in India: An Analysis of Patterns and Trends,” he concludes that Muslims carry a double burden of being labeled as “anti-nationalists” and being appeased at the same time.But he cautions us to think that the “appeasements” have helped Muslims in any way. He states:The fact that the so-called appeasement has not resulted in any benefits is typically ignored. Identity markers often lead to suspicion and discrimination by people and institutions. Discrimination too is pervasive in employment, housing and education. Gender injustice is usually identified purely with personal law to the exclusion of gender-related concerns in education and employment that Muslim women do face on a continuing basis.Basant acknowledges that while education rates for Muslims in Gujarat remain woefully low, the trends show that Muslims are improving in this category. But this is stymied, he argues, by “identity based discrimination (which) reduces access, enhances inequity and adds to insecurity.”This inequity exists in other areas of life too. In an article in the New York Times, Hartosh Singh Bal writes that “Gujarat has an urban poverty ratio of almost 18 percent, compared with almost 21 percent for the country as a whole.” According to Bal, “42.4 percent of the Muslims in urban Gujarat are poor, compared with 33.9 percent of Muslims in urban India overall.” Bal illustrates the disenfranchisement of Muslims in Gujarat by citing the refusal of the Narendra Modi government to release 53,000 scholarships for Muslim students. Vij writes in his Rediff piece that “Gujarat is the only state to not have implemented central government scholarships for students from minority communities, started in 2008.”Indeed in my neighborhood of Juhapura, often called one the largest ghettoes of Muslims in India, there are only four high schools for a population of 300,000. Of these four high schools, one is private, two are partly aided (ie the teachers salary is provided by the state) and only one is fully aided up to the 12th standard.VK Tripathi, an IIT Delhi Physics professor, has been coming to Juhapura, the Muslim ghetto of Ahmedabad, every two months since 2007 to fight for schools. In a 2009 article in the Times of India, Tripathi says there were only “24 educational institutions for a population of more than 3.5 lakh.”Most schools in Juhapura do not have paved roads, let alone enough class rooms, and Tripathi has been fighting the Gujarat government to provide better educational opportunities for residents of Juhapura. I saw Tripathi sahib just last weekend in Juhapura and he told me that while there is some progress, it is still “abysmally low”.Muslims do not just lag behind in education. In an article in Outlook magazine in 2011 by Pragya Singh, she cites statistics from the Sachar Committee Report and the NSSO (61st round) that state that urban poverty among Muslims in Gujarat is 800% higher than upper caste Hindus; 50% higher than OBCs. Rural poverty among Muslims is 200% more than Hindus and about 60% of Muslims live in urban areas.Citing research by Abusaleh Shariff for International Food Policy Research Institute (IFPRI), Singh says that Gujarat’s high levels of hunger are akin to Bihar, Orissa, and Maharashtra, and Karnataka. Singh writes that “Gujarat’s Muslims are most likely to be self-employed where wages have increased the least,” and that “Muslims are least likely to get organized sector and salaried jobs”.For Shariff, who conducted extensive research on Gujarat’s Muslims, the explanation is straight forward: “The economic and social life of Gujarati Muslims is worse than in some least developed states. The reason is discrimination.”
 
An open letter to Madhu Purnima Kishwar: Zahir Janmohamed (Kafila.org) (contd.)

I could continue to cite statistics but as one of India’s most accomplished social scientists, you know far more reports and statistics than I do.What I really want to do in this letter is to explain what I would have shown you in Ahmedabad.I would have taken you to Siddiqabad, a colony of about 200 homes built for survivors of theGulbarg and Naroda Patiya massacre. Siddiqabad is tucked behind the main road in Juhapura just down the street from my flat. Siddiqabad was meant to be temporary housing for riot victims. But it has been ten years and residents have grown weary of promises that they will get regular electricity, a gutter line, or access to a school nearby.I would have taken you to Narol (Bombay Hotel), a row of homes occupied by survivors of the Naroda Patiya massacre. Narol is next to a massive trash dump and the builder, a Muslim, told me no one else wanted to sell land to him after the 2002 riots. Each year during the monsoon, water runs from the trash dump into people’s homes. As a result, children in Narol have grown up with deformities. When I visited, a young boy of about 12 years interrupted his cricket game to talk with me. “Yes we see dead bodies here all the time,” he said casually as he tossed a ball into the air.I would have taken you to Vastrapur, where I lived last year for six months in an all Hindu building. My friend said I could live there on one condition: I could not use my real name. It was humiliating. It was also in Vastrapur where my friend Nida Yamin, an IIM research associate from Delhi, was recently denied housing because she is a Muslim. She left Ahmedabad after just a few months. “This place,” she told me, “is not for us.”I would have introduced you to Asif bhai, the director of the Crescent School in Juhapura who built his school in 2008 because he realized that the Gujarat government was never going to build adequate schools for Muslims.I would have introduced you to Kiran Uncle, a tireless advocate for secularism who has fought both Hindu and Muslim communalism and has been ostracized from his family for speaking out so vociferously for Muslims after the 2002 riots.I would have introduced you to Hemanshu Uncle, a restaurant owner in Ahmedabad. He tells me that every day someone comes into his restaurant and criticizes him for serving non-vegetarian food. Sometimes they tell him he is a bad Brahmin and he has grown tired of the “holier than though attitude of Gujaratis.” This is not the Gujarat, he tells, that he experienced in his childhood. It was more tolerant then.I would have introduced you to Sheba ji, a remarkable advocate for women’s rights in Gujarat who has been working tirelessly to address Gujarat’s rising problem of violence against women. I would have introduced you to Sheba ji’s staff, many of whom themselves are survivors of domestic violence.I would have introduced you to Pravin bhai, a film maker who has conducted extensive interviews with farmers in Gujarat who tell him farmer suicides are on the rise in this state.I would have introduced you to Jila, a 24 year old Ahmedabadi who was displaced in the 1992 and the 2002 riots. She still hopes to live in a Gujarat where people don’t always look at her as a Muslim first.
*​
Of course I know, Madhu ji, that you have met many Muslims here and I commend you for that. You mentioned businessman Zafar Sareshwala in one of your Tweets. Zafar bhai is a friend and I have no interest in criticizing him or anyone else. But I will say this: it has taken me an awful amount of time to get Muslims to open up about their experiences in Gujarat. When I first started conducting research in 2011, most of the Muslims I met told me that everything was great and that they have moved on.But as I spent more time with them, as I shared my own horror story of watching mobs attack people in 2002, as I spoke about the depression that I plummeted in for years after the riots, as I talked about the counseling I went through to help me cope with the memories of dozens of women who shared their stories in the relief camps of being rapedduring the 2002 riots, then people gradually—and very slowly—people start telling me their own stories. But it has taken long, two years actually, to get to this point.Gujarati Muslims are often afraid to say what they really think about Gujarat or Narendra Modi. In Gujarat, Modi has become a “god” for so many—given all the Muslims face in Gujarat, why should a Muslim face further isolation by criticizing Modi or life in Gujarat? I hear this all the time: “Zahir you can criticize Modi or the Gujarat state because you do not have family here. But for us, our life will become hell if we speak out.”And yet the outrage, the anger of Gujarat’s Muslims is there in the pauses, in the things they are afraid to say, in the silent articulation of their faces.Last year I interviewed a BJP Muslim politician, whose name I will withhold, and he kept praising Modi. I try to speak to everyone I can and his story was equally important to me. As we pulled out of his drive way, his car got stuck on his unpaved road outside his home in Juhapura. He pulled out his phone and called his friend in the government.“About that paved road. Is it coming?” he asked. I could not hear the response on the other hand. When the BJP politician hung up the phone, he could no longer make eye contact with me. Two years later he still does not have a paved road.
*​
I wish I could write more but there is no electricity in my flat in Juhapura right now and I am writing this sitting on charpai outside my building, trying to catch some light from my neighbor’s generator powered well lit bungalow. I have not had regular running water for the past two days (the same happened last weekend) and when I told my society manager, he told me “yeh hai Juhapura.”That seems to be the root problem here in Gujarat: Muslims—and so many others in this state—have come to accept less, to ask for less, to be content with less, and then told by society that they should complain less.I know you Tweeted that such problems do not exist in Gujarat.
@madhukishwar: 8\9 Modi doesn’t rest. Already every rural urban household has 24×7 power, most hv high quality piped water. But guj govt working on further@madhukishwar: 9\9 Gujrat working on amazing improvements in water policy. It was water scarce state, today it is water surplus with water table rising​
Perhaps we will have a chance to meet in the future and you can show me this Gujarat: where Muslims do not face prejudice, where women do not report that sexual harassment is increasing, where farmers do not feel that their livelihood is being threatened.Yes, some people do indeed have more after Modi. But many others do not. This profoundinequity upsets me, not because I am a Muslim, but because I love Gujarat and my Gujarati people and I would not be writing this letter if I did not want more for Gujarat and all its people.My invitation is still open to you, Madhu ji. I have emailed you my mobile number and it would indeed be an honor to meet you and to meet you in Ahmedabad.With fondness and respect,Zahir Janmohamed,
Juhapura,
January 15, 2013.(Zahir Janmohamed is a freelance writer living in and writing about Juhapura, the Muslim neighbourhood of Ahmedabad. He previously served as the Advocacy Director for Amnesty International and Senior Foreign Policy Aide in the U.S. Congress. He tweets as @ZahirJ.)
 
I think Modi supporters have been informed much about the reality and thus have agreed with most of the points countered against thread with mere silence.
 
Vibrant Gujarat 2013

For the first time I have seen such influential business tycoons appear altogether at one Platform that too on an Invitation of just some CM ( CM is no where when it comes to power n authority of a PM).
Be it a mere Power Show or whatever ( I wish Haryana would have soemthing like it - Amen ).
If one person can make all of them come together on one stage -------Kuch toh Bat hai , else Tata , Reliance , foreign delegates faltoo nahi baithe -----kissi ke bhi bulane se aa jaye .

Agree or disagree-------This Man is becoming FACE of India .

I am not into politics much still------correct me if I m wrong
Nehru was chosen over Patel
Indira was chosen over Morarji
Now who would replace the Charizma of Modi

PS : I m not much into news or debates , so if any such event happened in past ----please let me know .
 
swaich said:
Dear Madhu ji,I was very excited when I learned you were coming to Ahmedabad and I was honoured that you expressed interest in possibly meeting with me.I was sitting with a journalist friend when I read your Tweet about visiting Ahmedabad and he told me you are a “pioneering feminist who did ground breaking work.” He also told me that in 2005 you signed a very
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It shall be unfair if the response is there, but not what is being responded to. This is Madhu Kishwar's article in the Outlook which is the source of the debate:
http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?283393

I find the above response in the open letter a bit weak. The guy is not a Modi fan, he didn't like that Kishwar praised Modi. So he wrote a letter with an anecdote here and there. Gujarat is not a wonderland which has no flaws. Rapes, murders, eve-teasing, poverty, etc. everything will be found. And yes, deadly riots also happened in 2002, from which Modi doesn't quite come out as a white knight, whether his role can be proved or not.

Point is if whether Modi's rule has seen development and progress? The think I see as a Modi positive is that everyone is questioning the progress & development - it means that there is something to question. The kind of standards Gujarat's development is subjected to - if whole of India is subjected to the same, it would be very good.

By the way, if you see Madhu Kishwar's article or twitter, she has equally earned the wrath of Hindu Right by taking on Hindu Right, including RSS.
 
rekha said:
If one person can make all of them come together on one stage -------Kuch toh Bat hai , else Tata , Reliance , foreign delegates faltoo nahi baithe -----kissi ke bhi bulane se aa jaye .
.
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True, Tata Reliance faltu nahi baithe and the ONLY thing that gets them going is MONEY!!!!!!

Gujarat or Modi gives them undue benefits like Tax relaxations and law relaxations(RTIs to which havent been answered yet) and helps them make money at the cost of state. If a CM would do that for me I would go head over heals anywhere he would ask me to come because I only care about my stake holders wealth and not for the people of state.

Anyways, even if CM is not giving me benefits and my huge factories are operating under his state I would still go at his one call galloping to keep my interests safe.

Gujarat is not best in any terms besides spendings in PR to show it is best and if you follow debates on this thread you will find some hard hitting figures to prove the point and Haryana is doing much better than Gujarat on key economic parameters.
 
kapdal said:
It shall be unfair if the response is there, but not what is being responded to. This is Madhu Kishwar's article in the Outlook which is the source of the debate:
http://www.outlookindia.com/article.aspx?283393

I find the above response in the open letter a bit weak. The guy is not a Modi fan, he didn't like that Kishwar praised Modi. So he wrote a letter with an anecdote here and there. Gujarat is not a wonderland which has no flaws. Rapes, murders, eve-teasing, poverty, etc. everything will be found. And yes, deadly riots also happened in 2002, from which Modi doesn't quite come out as a white knight, whether his role can be proved or not.

Point is if whether Modi's rule has seen development and progress? The think I see as a Modi positive is that everyone is questioning the progress & development - it means that there is something to question. The kind of standards Gujarat's development is subjected to - if whole of India is subjected to the same, it would be very good.

By the way, if you see Madhu Kishwar's article or twitter, she has equally earned the wrath of Hindu Right by taking on Hindu Right, including RSS.
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Kapil, I dont think Madhu is pro-right wing. Simply praising Modi or Gujarat's development doesnt make one a right winger or pro-RSS. But I definitely think Zahir did a good job of replying to Madhu. Her tweets and views, as of many others, tend to show Gujarat to be a dreamland of opportunity, development and equality. One only has to look around on FB and other social media how this lie is being spread.

It was Madhu herself who supplanted her views with personal opinions and instances. And Zahir did the same. She spoke of good roads and all round development, he brought up the lack of roads and development in Muslim ghettos like Juhapura. She spoke of how women can roam around at night, he shared an instance of female Muslim scholar being unable to find residence in a Hindu locality. And he shared data as well. More urban Muslims in Gujarat are poor than India overall; a fact Zahir mentioned quoting Hartosh Bal.

Oh yes, Gujarat has seen development in Modi's time. Nobody can prove otherwise. But the real point is whether that development is a) due to Modi b) better than other comparable states and c) better than Guj's own previous growth. Without addressing these 3 points, one cant blow Modi's bugle and lead the band to New Delhi.

And lets face it, Maharashtra and TN have better rates of growth and investment, if only marginally. But why aren't the CMs of these two states touted as next PMs or vikash purush or mahila? There's certainly a very good PR machinery working here.

Modi, Gujarat and 2002 riots are linked forever. One cant look at Modi's performance without the prism of 2002. It will be a half-baked analysis to evaluate Modi's performance without evaluating 2002 riots. Vice-versa is true too.
 
I have got five to six chances to visit Gujrat and found that there is realy a ground label development. Everybody whom i Meet praise Modi. I have never seen that he is speaking on the basis of Document in hand. His Voice is Natural no doubt he is a natural leaden and have capacity to develop India like Gujrat .We shoud Support Him.
jatshiva1947 said:
नरेंद्र मोदी एक ऐसा नाम जिसको लोग देश के भविष्य विकास हिंसा मुक्त समाज के रूप में देख रहे हैं। हम मानते हैं कि गुजरात में दंगे हुए थे और उस बारें में पता नही कोन कोन सी कमैटिया बैठाकर देख ली सरकार ने लेकिन परिणाम जस के तस। देश का दुर्भाग्य है कि यहां राजनीति जो होती है वो किसी मुद्दे को लेकर नही होती यहां पर होती है जाति के नाम पर धर्म के नाम पर सम्प्रदाय के नाम पर भाषा के नाम पर। यहां के नेताओं को विकास से कोई लेना देना नही है, कोई मरता मरो उन्हे चाहिए जो करोंङों खर्च करके जीते हैं उनसे 10 गुणा कैसे बने। मैंने तो आज तक मोदी जी का नाम किसी घोटाले में नही सुना। हां एक दिन जब उनका सद्भावना उपवास था तो मैं शुरू से ही देख रहा था मैं ही क्या सारा देश देख रहा था। वो उपवास पर बैठने से पहले अपनी मां का आशिर्वाद लेने के लिए उनके निवास स्थान पर गये तो उस भोली और भारतीय मां ने इस सपुत को एक रामायण और 101 रूपया दिया था। और शायद उस दिन जी जन्मदिन था। क्या देश को ये दृष्य याद नही अगर यही जन्मदिन मायावती का या सोनिया जी होता तो आपको पता ही क्या भेंट दी जाती।

हां यह भी सत्य है कि मोदी जी सख्त शाशक है और यह होना भी बहुत आवस्यक है जो शाशक सख्त नही होगा मुलायम होगा वहां पर व्यवस्था बिगङती ही रहेगी देख लो देश का हाल। और भगवान ने गीता में भी कहा है हे अर्जुन शाशन करने वालों में यमराज हुं में……. तो यह भी कोई गलत नही है। यह काल अंधकार का काल है लुट खसोट का समय है सब सोचते हैं कि किसी भी तरह से धनादि का संग्रह कर लो पता नही कल क्या हो हम सरकार में दोबारा आये या ना आये। मोदी जी के गले में हमने तो आज तक नोटो की माला नही देखी। और जैसा मैंने सुना है कि उनके खाते में एक या दो लाख से ज्यादा रूपये भी नही होंगे। तो ऐसे आदमी पर क्या हम उंगली उठा सकते हैं। जब भ्रष्ट लोगों को उनके खिलाफ कुछ नही हाथ लगता तो 2002 के दंगो की चिंगारी से उनका बेदाग सफेद कुर्ते को जलाने की सोचते हैं लेकिन उन मुर्खों को नही पता कि उस सफेद कुर्तें वो शील वस्त्र है जो प्रहलाद को होली की आग के अंदर से भी सुरक्षित निकाल लाया था।

दंगे में काफी लोग मारे गये थे लेकिन जो लोग अयोध्या से आ रहे थे उनको कोई नही याद करता जिन बेचारों को रेल के अंदर जिंदा जला दिया गया था, हां उनको याद करके अपना वोटबैंक भरने की योजना बनाते रहते हैं जो असली दंगे में मारे गये थे कोई भी दंगा एक तरफ से नही होता। वो तो मोदी जी की समझदारी देखो की किस तरह से हालातों को सुधारा और उसके बाद में आज तक कोई कर्फ्यु नही लगा वरना वहां के हालात ऐसे थे कि आये दिन बंद करना पङता था।

जो लोग दंगे में मारे हुए लोगो की दुहाई देकर कहते हैं मोदी दोषी है उनको किसी से कोई लेना देना नही है बस वोटों की आग है।

हिंसा तो हिंसा है उसमें कोई यह नही देखता कि मरने वाला कोन है।

और एक सबसे बङी बात देखो राजनीति की एक बदमाश जिसकें आतंकियों से नाता था दर्जन भर से भी ज्यादा केस चल रहे थे सोहराबुदीन उसका एनकाउंटर हुआ उस केस में 3 आई पी एस अधिकारी और एक मंत्री को जेल जाना पङा। मैं तो आपसे ही पुछता हुं कि अपराध हिंसा अन्याय अत्याचार खत्म करना गलत है क्या ……… अगर गलत है तो मोदी भी गलत है
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rekha said:
Vibrant Gujarat 2013

For the first time I have seen such influential business tycoons appear altogether at one Platform that too on an Invitation of just some CM ( CM is no where when it comes to power n authority of a PM).
Be it a mere Power Show or whatever ( I wish Haryana would have soemthing like it - Amen ).
If one person can make all of them come together on one stage -------Kuch toh Bat hai , else Tata , Reliance , foreign delegates faltoo nahi baithe -----kissi ke bhi bulane se aa jaye .

Agree or disagree-------This Man is becoming FACE of India .

I am not into politics much still------correct me if I m wrong
Nehru was chosen over Patel
Indira was chosen over Morarji
Now who would replace the Charizma of Modi

PS : I m not much into news or debates , so if any such event happened in past ----please let me know .
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Rekha, dont you think the bold black doesn't go with the bold blue? One has to be into something to make statements like 'Modi is becoming the face of India'. Otherwise one just end up taking things at face value and never manages to go deeper.

Yes we all have limited time and there's only so much we can research on our own. But it would take less than the amount of time you spent typing up that post. There are tools at your disposal. Google GDP growth rates of states, gross and per capita, FDI in states and see for yourself if events like Vibrant Gujarat summit actually make Modi the face of India. I know its boring to dig up and read such stuff, but its better than adding caveats at the end of every post.
 
swaich said:
Rekha, dont you think the bold black doesn't go with the bold blue? One has to be into something to make statements like 'Modi is becoming the face of India'. Otherwise one just end up taking things at face value and never manages to go deeper.

Yes we all have limited time and there's only so much we can research on our own. But it would take less than the amount of time you spent typing up that post. There are tools at your disposal. Google GDP growth rates of states, gross and per capita, FDI in states and see for yourself if events like Vibrant Gujarat summit actually make Modi the face of India. I know its boring to dig up and read such stuff, but its better than adding caveats at the end of every post.
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Well, distribution of growth is not even in Gujarat but a large constituency of Gujarati people got benefit from Modi rule which include urban middle class and rural farmers. Gujarat has large urban population and BJP won 80% of seats. And voters don't vote on basis of all-inclusive policies neither in India nor in US, there is always a core constituency. People vote to party which brings direct benefit to them. I think that GPP got some votes of BJP otherwise BJP might have performed batter. Patel farmers are vote-bank of BJP from beginning.
 
bsbana said:
Well, distribution of growth is not even in Gujarat but a large constituency of Gujarati people got benefit from Modi rule which include urban middle class and rural farmers. Gujarat has large urban population and BJP won 80% of seats. And voters don't vote on basis of all-inclusive policies neither in India nor in US, there is always a core constituency. People vote to party which brings direct benefit to them. I think that GPP got some votes of BJP otherwise BJP might have performed batter. Patel farmers are vote-bank of BJP from beginning.
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Once again, Bheem bhai, you use a long-winded way to reply and I have a hard time finding out the 'point' in your posts. But let me try.

Who is arguing against vote banks? Every party has it. The post you quoted is about finding out if Gujarat's growth is really that beat-all-states as its is made out to be. According to various data posted on this thread including me, it isn't.
 
Sir, there is more to it than shown development. Sample this: Narendra Modi’s cabinet has been convicted of the slaughter of over 90 Muslims. Another minister has just come out of jail and is again contesting, despite serious criminal charges but Congress did not push any of this and the reason is Gujaratis are communal by nature and that is why Modi is so popular. This can also be seen in ticket distribution, for four consecutive Lok Sabha and assembly elections he has given not a single ticket to Gujarati Muslims. Muslims are 9% of Gujarat’s population, but Modi has made them electorally irrelevant(some might chuckle over this but not a healthy sign for a secular country).

Another favorable aspect for Modi is that he is a great orator and this is the nation of emotions.

Also like you said: Gujarat’s BJP vote bank is Patels + upper castes. As a ghanchi from the OBC, or Other Backward Classes, community of oil-pressers (teli) Modi has no caste base.



bsbana said:
Well, distribution of growth is not even in Gujarat but a large constituency of Gujarati people got benefit from Modi rule which include urban middle class and rural farmers. Gujarat has large urban population and BJP won 80% of seats. And voters don't vote on basis of all-inclusive policies neither in India nor in US, there is always a core constituency. People vote to party which brings direct benefit to them. I think that GPP got some votes of BJP otherwise BJP might have performed batter. Patel farmers are vote-bank of BJP from beginning.
Click to expand...
 
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