12 points by MahaPanchayat - How much you agree?

You Agree to following number of points by Mahapanchayat


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BTW, please do look into the other thread where members have quoted how jats are buying brides to save/ propagate the jat culture....:D

How is that related to same gotra issue?? Inter caste(diff caste) / Inter Race(different race) is different issue and majority has no problem with that. Khaps didnt raise that issue and amendment isnt for that.
 
My reply was in context to Brahms' post and not the thread.

Having said that, its nice to know that Khaps are progressive enough to accept inter-caste/ inter-race relations and dilution of the rich jat culture. :)
How is that related to same gotra issue?? Inter caste(diff caste) / Inter Race(different race) is different issue and majority has no problem with that. Khaps didnt raise that issue and amendment isnt for that.
 
Earlier u said that. Thats why I mentioned it.

So, what is this jat/ khap movement regarding amendment in HMA, etc all about? Improvement in our social structure/ customs, economic upliftment or just a fight for an identity, a display of power/ influence?

Having said that, its nice to know that Khaps are progressive enough to accept inter-caste/ inter-race relations and dilution of the rich jat culture. :)

Its nothing about progression . If X person's son/daughter marry a Bhramin/baniya(from different village) its X person's problem. Khaps wont interfere here. Majority wont care in this case.
 
Earlier u said that. Thats why I mentioned it.





Its nothing about progression . If X person's son/daughter marry a Bhramin/baniya(from different village) its X person's problem. Khaps wont interfere here. Majority wont care in this case.

Are you sure about it ?

I strongly suggest you to consult with the Jatland Khap leaders before posting this statement.
 
Are you sure about it ?

I strongly suggest you to consult with the Jatland Khap leaders before posting this statement.

Thats what I have seen in my area. If u know more or have more information please share to help me change my view.
 
Thats what I have seen in my area. If u know more or have more information please share to help me change my view.

People here are talking about infected or polluted DNA, purity of genes, jat pride and so on. According to the Khap scientists, Intra-gotra marriages, intra-village marriage and intercaste marriages are the main sources of the infected genes.

Your above statement may be considered against the theory of Pure Jat DNA. So i advise you to consult some khap spokesman and get a clearence nod. :)
 
You are again quoting my revert that was in reply to a particular post.
I guess it is an X person's problem where he/she marries and not the community's, right?
Earlier u said that. Thats why I mentioned it.





Its nothing about progression . If X person's son/daughter marry a Bhramin/baniya(from different village) its X person's problem. Khaps wont interfere here. Majority wont care in this case.
 
People here are talking about infected or polluted DNA, purity of genes, jat pride and so on. According to the Khap scientists, Intra-gotra marriages, intra-village marriage and intercaste marriages are the main sources of the infected genes.

Your above statement may be considered against the theory of Pure Jat DNA. So i advise you to consult some khap spokesman and get a clearence nod. :)

Going by the polluted DNA theory widely afloat on JL, nowadays Chaudhary Charan Singh's Jathood is also at stake as he married off his daughter to a man belonging to backward class. By the way, in democracy everyone has a right to cry loud from one's rooftop "I am a Asli Jat and my neighbours are Nakli Jats' as that person knows that neighbours have no legal right to insist on production of a DNA Test from the noise-maker.
 
Kapil, i think you missed the point here. 'Shame factor' is also applicable in same-village marriage but couple still go ahead with it. 'Social-stigma and humiliation of family' is there in same-gotra marriage too, yet we have such cases. Why not then marriages in real 'cousins'??
If we have some 'krantikaris' for whom the love for each-other is far important than then any consequence of such an alliance, then why such 'krantikaris' are limited only to intra-village/intra-gotra marriages? A 'blind love' can happen in cousins too (if 'blind love' really overlook the social norms or consequences)!!

Regarding knowledge of law among such couples: I again disagree here; after getting married, first thing such couples do, is to approach court and asking for Police protection. Hard to imagine that they are oblivious to law!! Any thought?

Sunil, I am not talking of humiliation of the family, as you put it. But humiliation within the family. How many families would approve of marriage within cousins? We have seen enough cases where one family supports the same village/gotra marriage (and in some cases both support it like the kadyan-gahlawat case).

The crux of my argument is that most people's mindsets are conditioned in such a way that any hanky-panky with a cousin is a strict no-no. Even if in rare cases, some are doing it (as Jitendra pointed out that he has seen cousins flirting), they are wise enough to not take it to the level of marriage as they would be disgraced by ALL the relatives. But that is valid only in rare cases. In MOST cases, the mind is not even open to the possibility of a relationship with a cousin. The idea itself would be so abhorrable to most minds that it won't enter it. If the mind is open to it, and they don't fear being disgraced and getting cut-off from their families; then law is hardly an obstacle (compared to the bigger obstacles they have managed to clear). They can run away, change identities, change religions, etc. etc. You can think of it like multiple filtering process. The very first filter is very fine (thinking of marrying a cousin). If some people cross that filter (and u need 2 cousins on the same wavelength, one won't do); then you have another filter- response of immediate families and friends. Probability of crossing either filter is very low, and joint probability is lower.

While some people feel as strongly about gotra/village as they feel about cousins; the feeling is obviously not that widespread. The filters exist there too, but they are not as fine, so more people go through, increasing the probabilty of these events. But still these events are very rare (because of filters) compared to population size.

The mindset is conditioned by several things that happen in the environment- family, people one interacts with, place where one lives, even the movies one sees. I know south Indians, who have been born and brought up in North India, and for whom marriage with a cousin is a repulsive concept, despite the custom existing in their community. In fact, the rarity of the phenomenon is directly linked to how "wrong" that phenomenon is for someone, which is influenced by upbringing, family, surroundings, culture, etc. Marriage of Brother-sisters would be rarer than marriage of cousins, which would be rarer than marriage within the same gotra, which would be rarer than marriage in a different gotra (but restricted because of other customs). Most of the cases we see are of the last type, as that has the maximum chance of being considered "okay" by some individuals. You can test it out by opening a poll on this forum or inferring it from whatever discussions have been going on.

Most people have no idea of the finer nuances of ANY law unless they have to deal with it. As Vijay said, we don't know at what stage they got the police protection. Anyways, awareness or lack of it notwithstanding, I don't see law being a guiding principle when people get into relationships.
 
Gujars have similar rules

After gotra threat, proximity distances to-be spouses

Purusharth Aaradhak | Greater Noida

The security of Chithera village in Greater Noida has been stepped up on Thursday after a panchayat issued an order to put on hold the marriage between a man of Bainsala gotra and a woman belonging to Bhati gotra.

The police are keeping a close watch on potential trouble-makers in the area. The area has been cordoned off and a PAC team has been deployed. Meanwhile, the family members are not satisfied with the security given to the bride and groom.

The marriage of Jayvindra, son of Netram Bainsala, is scheduled for May 15 with the daughter of Omvir Bhati. Chithera and the neighbouring villages are dominated by the Gujjar families belonging to Bhati gotra. Gujjars of other gotras also live there. The panchayat maintains it’s not just that the boys and girls of the Bhati gotra are brothers and sisters, but those belonging to other gotras living in nearby villages should also be treated as siblings. The panchayat says marriages should take place between individuals belonging to far-off villages.

The families of Jayvindra and Omvir challenged the panchayat, which enraged the members of the panchayat who are hell bent on preventing the marriage. Tension has been mounting for the last the past three days ever since the panchayat came into the picture. The panchayat had threatened that if the families went ahead with the marriage, then it would block the baraat into the village.

Initially, nobody in the village was aware of the marriage. The matter was brought to the notice of the panchayat on Tuesday by some residents who were opposed to the marriage. The panchayat was summoned and the families of the bride and groom were called to the meeting. But the families refused to appear before the panchayat as their children have already been engaged and both families claimed that they were busy in making arrangements for the marriage.

The members of the panchayat started exerting pressure on the families to postpone the marriage. Fearing threat to their lives and disruption of ceremony, both families approached the district administration seeking security.

The administration swung into action and provided security to the families. “Adequate security has been given to the families. We are also in regular touch with the families. On May 15, the day of marriage, tight security will be provided,” said a senior police official. However, the families are not satisfied with the security.

Jayvindra’s uncle Narendra Bainsala said, “Only two policemen have been provided...we are not confident about our safety. To avoid any eventuality, the administration should take up the issue seriously.”

http://www.dailypioneer.com/255798/After-gotra-threat-proximity-distances-to-be-spouses.html
 
I agree that marriage in same gotra should be avoided. But giving so much restrictions like not marrying in nearby villages & to other gotra who live with in the same village or nearby village should be condemened. Marriage is a sacred occassion . you are gettting a son or daughter in the form of Jamai & bahu. And good friends always marry their son & daughter with each other as they should keep good relations. marriage to other gotra in nearby villages or same village should be supported. it will increase bhaichara.
 
People here are talking about infected or polluted DNA, purity of genes, jat pride and so on. According to the Khap scientists, Intra-gotra marriages, intra-village marriage and intercaste marriages are the main sources of the infected genes.

Your above statement may be considered against the theory of Pure Jat DNA. So i advise you to consult some khap spokesman and get a clearence nod. :)

To me you just said that you the sake of saying. Khaps never said that. Give me he name of the khap who says this. I think many people dont know what khaps are and how they work. People are just scared of it because of media. One of my cousin has married to a brahmin and no khap has come to his door?
 
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I guess it is an X person's problem where he/she marries and not the community's, right?

You are right but society and law interfere in incest/immoral relationship. Like , by law , a father in law cant marry a widowed daughter in law.
 
Anjoo ji, I am not sure what u mean but I think u missed my post #206 http://www.jatland.com/forums/showt...ts-by-MahaPanchayat-How-much-you-agree/page11

I was talking in reference to "Same Gotra" marriage. Khaps are asking for amendment in relation to "Same Gotra" and I full support them on this. For me this is incest. I cant even think of Same Gotra marriage and want my children (would be ) to believe in the same. If they go against this I would not hesitate to disown them. Also I am against killing anyone for this.

I was under the impression that 99.99% believe in this but if people has changed with the time and dont believe in this than I was wrong.

I may sound 'conservative , silly, stupid or from stone age' to some like they say these days on the TV.
 
Vipin ji, respect your sentiments. Most likely I would have missed the post among so many variants of the same issue being discussed on so many threads.

There are relationships that are considered immoral irrespective of religion/ community/ country. You would rarely find people who would speak in favor of such relationships.
And then there are relationships that are acceptable in one community/ religion/ country but not in another. What you take pride in not following, but someone else would feel otherwise. Like same-gotra marriages.
It would be invalid to quote examples of immoral relationships to build a case against same-gotra marriages.

Khaps are fighting for revision in HMA and making it a "law" (?). But do they themselves respect that "law"? They are in favor of people who murderred their own kind, however justifiable. Let me play the devil's advocate and say- Just as law could not prevent (dis)honor killings niether will it prevent same-gotra marriages if the people involved so desire.
Anjoo ji, I am not sure what u mean but I think u missed my post #206 http://www.jatland.com/forums/showt...ts-by-MahaPanchayat-How-much-you-agree/page11

I was talking in reference to "Same Gotra" marriage. Khaps are asking for amendment in relation to "Same Gotra" and I full support them on this. For me this is incest. I cant even think of Same Gotra marriage and want my children (would be ) to believe in the same. If they go against this I would not hesitate to disown them. Also I am against killing anyone for this.

I was under the impression that 99.99% believe in this but if people has changed with the time and dont believe in this than I was wrong.

I may sound 'conservative , silly, stupid or from stone age' to some like they say these days on the TV.
 
अगली पोस्ट लिखने से पहले मैं कुछ अर्ज़ करना चाहूंगा...
 
जाट अर मकोड़ा कदे सूधे चले हैं... इब् तै कती ऐ ना करता.
 
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