Allowing Sikh JaTs on this site

Status
Not open for further replies.
Dear Members:

I too don't think it's a good idea for the same reasons explained by other members in previous replies. I think they are not really banned (in the sense that they keep on coming on this site and forced out). It's just they wouldn't relate to it.

One argument was that they allow all Jat's on their site. I would like to know any member going to their groups and Does that serve same purpose as this one. I guess there would be none, exept who has some other agenda like (professional reasons..etc).
 
Dear Friends,

Putting a no entry board and saying "Hindu Jats Only" sounds a highly outdated mind set. You mean to say that to interact with other jats we have to go to their sites? And if they want to interact with our group, there is no way they can come to our site? With this approach Jatland.com looks like old south africa. Who knows, those very sikh jats or muslim jats may turn out to be like mirrors where we can see our true face..Let us not hide away our faces and be so introverts. I won't be surprised if there are some jats living in USA or else where who got married to Christian ladies and are almost Christians by their new way of life. What do you say to them? We will do a great service to Jat cause by opening this site to other jats. Is our Jattu culture so weak that opening this site to other jats will dilute us? My friends, holi is just few days away...let this holi be in true spirit of brotherhood...let us welcome them with rang aur gulaal and ofcourse sweets...

Regards
Rajendra
 
Theek hai Rajender Jee,

aan do bai. Ar dike sare mithai ar gulal le ke khade rahiyo.. par methaai khilawange kuukar.. yaa to ek website hai.. ar 0-1 0-1 he le jaa sake sai..

ar haan "no baniya no bahman" kaa bord bhee ghana suthra naa lagta.... unhai bhee aan deve ke..

Rajendra Kumar Kalkhunde (Mar 03, 2004 07:38 p.m.):
Dear Friends,

Putting a no entry board and saying "Hindu Jats Only" sounds a highly outdated mind set. You mean to say that to interact with other jats we have to go to their sites? And if they want to interact with our group, there is no way they can come to our site? With this approach Jatland.com looks like old south africa. Who knows, those very sikh jats or muslim jats may turn out to be like mirrors where we can see our true face..Let us not hide away our faces and be so introverts. I won't be surprised if there are some jats living in USA or else where who got married to Christian ladies and are almost Christians by their new way of life. What do you say to them? We will do a great service to Jat cause by opening this site to other jats. Is our Jattu culture so weak that opening this site to other jats will dilute us? My friends, holi is just few days away...let this holi be in true spirit of brotherhood...let us welcome them with rang aur gulaal and ofcourse sweets...

Regards
Rajendra
 
Anuj Kumar (Mar 03, 2004 07:51 p.m.):
Theek hai Rajender Jee,

aan do bai. Ar dike sare mithai ar gulal le ke khade rahiyo.. par methaai khilawange kuukar.. yaa to ek website hai.. ar 0-1 0-1 he le jaa sake sai..

ar haan "no baniya no bahman" kaa bord bhee ghana suthra naa lagta.... unhai bhee aan deve ke..

Dear Anuj,
Be sure no Baniya aur bahmann will stand even for few minutes where 4 jats are talking together. So you need not hang that board. The name of site being Jatland, attracts only the jats. Name of the site itself is like a board.

Rajendra
 
Rajender Ji, I support your idea of allowing Sikh JATS to join Jatland. May be we should wait for a while before letting them in. As you can see we Hindu JATS are not united yet. I have seen many times on this forum, people complaining about Haryanvi JAT, UP JAT and Rajasthan JATS. Let us resolve these differences first before creating more mess on board. We must not forget, they are dominant in nature and I am sure they are going to dominate Jatland. I know this because I lived with them for long time. Another thing I have observed is, they do not have any problem (bad feelings) about UP, Rajasthan and MP JATS, but they (Not All of them) certainly don't like Haryanvi JATS (Whatever the reason). I request we should discuss all pros and cons before taking this big step.
 
YagyaVir Singh Gaawar (Mar 04, 2004 10:25 a.m.):
Another thing I have observed is, they do not have any problem (bad feelings) about UP, Rajasthan and MP JATS, but they (Not All of them) certainly don't like Haryanvi JATS (Whatever the reason). I request we should discuss all pros and cons before taking this big step.


*********
Let me just take this single poiint, we will also discuss other views,one by one.

This comment that the Jat Sikhs do not like Haryanvi Jats.

This is a stereotype, best got rid off. Perhaps some uniformed perosn made the comment to you, Yahgyavir, and it stuck. That is what causes stereotypes.

This site is only a discusson board.

Let us never forget that.


All someone is saying, by refusing entry, is


" hey I will not let you, a Jatt Sikh, enter the discussion"

Now if we do not discuss with each other, how do we get rid of misconceptions, let alone build relationships.

What is the Jatt Sikh going to say:" I do not like you, you are a Haryanvi Jatt"

You will ask " Prahji, why not"


What will be his response?

The reverse is also true.

A response will come!

Will that not help clear up misconceptions?

Is that alone, not a worth while objective ?


Ravi Chaudhary
 
Ravi ji,
May be stereotype, but it is there in the mind. I will get rid of this only if I see more and more Sikh JATS start saying Haryanvi JATS are like our brothers. It may get resolve if we talk on the common platform, or may get worse and Jatland will become Kurukshetra between Sikh JATS and Haryanvi JATS. It wasn’t one person but lots of them made this comment. This was the period between 1983-1992. This perception must have changed by now (Or may be not). My only intention was to tell the truth. I will be more then happy to welcome them. I know them very well and love to interact with them.
 
JAT KI KOI HINDU CASTE DOST NAHI HAI...ALL HINDU CASTE THEY HATE JAT...OFCOURSE INFRONT OF YOU THEY WILL LIKE BUT FROM THE BACK ALL HINDUS THEY HATE JAT. ALL HINDU CAN BE UNITED AGAINST US BUT BELIEVE ME MUSLIM AND SIKH THEY WONT BE WITH THEM...SO BHAI LOGO SOCHO SAMJHO AND KUCHH KARO..THAT WOULD ONLY I CAN SAY..

WITH BES REGARDS
 
Dana Ram Choudhary (Mar 04, 2004 12:27 p.m.):
JAT KI KOI HINDU CASTE DOST NAHI HAI...ALL HINDU CASTE THEY HATE JAT...OFCOURSE INFRONT OF YOU THEY WILL LIKE BUT FROM THE BACK ALL HINDUS THEY HATE JAT. ALL HINDU CAN BE UNITED AGAINST US BUT BELIEVE ME MUSLIM AND SIKH THEY WONT BE WITH THEM...SO BHAI LOGO SOCHO SAMJHO AND KUCHH KARO..THAT WOULD ONLY I CAN SAY..

WITH BES REGARDS

I fully agree with Dana Ram ji. Jat ki marod ko koi karod me bhi nahi khareed sakta and I suppose this is what the Jat is. Kings could not pay for his "Marod". We will do a great service to Jathood by inviting all jats (sikhs, muslims etc ) to express their views on jatland. I am not sure about sikh jats' relations with haryana jats. However, all I know is that Badal and chautala families are great friends and have always stood by each each other. Some likes/ dislikes will always be there, but they are all managable. I am sure we will be able to handle them all as they surface. Let us not be so defensive.

Rajendra
 
http://www.jatland.com/cgi-bin/ub/UltraBoard.cgi?action=Read&BID=19&TID=624&P=1&SID=72899#ID7

http://www.jatland.com/cgi-bin/ub/UltraBoard.cgi?action=Read&BID=19&TID=625&P=1&SID=72899#ID2

I think a JatSikh is a jat first and then a Sikh as the name suggests.

We need moderates. This is the need of hour. We should not hold prejudice against JatSikhs and Moola Jats ( Muslim jats as they are known commonly ). I would like to share a fact that Muslim jats are not very fanatic. There are many families of muslim jats where of the two brothers one is "Randhir" and the other "Gulab".They keep Rozas and celebrate Diwali as well.
All jats should be welcomed to Jatland.

Moreover I have a suggestion, Why not to invite non-jat learned men and women who are curious about Jats , the ones doing studies on jat history (this may include researchers from foreign univ's as well) as guests on this forum with limited access.This will solve the problem of having People like Ms. Dutta , who proclaims to be an authority on Jat history.
 
Folks,

I am not too sure I can say that a Jat Sikh is Jat first and Sikh later. In fact, I can't say this for anyone other than our local Jats. They are Jats first then anything else. In fact, Jats are so moderate that they don't really have a religion. Humanity is the relegion of Jats. This statement is very strong and I am sure many will agree with me on this.

Go ahead and start another forum such as a yahoo message group and test this idea. Once again this is not a political forum.

Also, to CH. Dhana Ram's comments I would only say that Kahin esa no ho ki dhobi ka kutta ghar ka na ghat ka.

Once again, don't get me wrong, I am not against any one because I simply don't belive in discrimination based on cast, color or religion. It is just that I am debating the purpose of this site. We have to change the rules of the site (such as no sikh jokes) in drastic ways before we can allow this. Based on the posting on this site, I am very sure that the site will have to be closed down very soon if opened to the general public. It just can't withstand the scrutiny of the general public.

Just as someone else pointed out why don't we first try to establish the purpose of this site. Just try doing that among ourselves. That in itself will be very amusing.

-ajmer
 
Ajmer Dahiya (Mar 04, 2004 01:37 p.m.):
Folks,
We have to change the rules of the site (such as no sikh jokes) in drastic ways before we can allow this. Based on the posting on this site, I am very sure that the site will have to be closed down very soon if opened to the general public. It just can't withstand the scrutiny of the general public.


*****************

Ajmer,

There must be more to life than making " Sikh" jokes.

You can still make them but be prepared to see other people crack some about you in return.

and with respect, I disagree with the worry about public scrutiny.

Those who want to enter this site can do so by simply taking on a neutral name or a name that sounds like a Hindu Jat

Nothing here is that confidential.

No one can stop the back door entry , and do you not think it is happening already ?.

Our Yahoo group Jathistory is open to all, and we have plenty of critical comments from non Jat scholars there. It works quite well.

Do visit and join

Open mindeness will make us grow, and be stronger, not weaker


Ravi
 
Sikh jatts have many forums but for Hindu Jat, this is the only one. I don't think we should dilute the only major forum we have at such an early stage.
 
For those who are confused about whether it's the Jat or the Sikh part of Jatt Sikh identity, which dominates: Jatt is simply the modifier, so they are primarily Sikhs. Just as African-Americans is the commonly used term to denote people of African descent, but defines them predominantly by the fact of their being Americans.

In the sense of expanding our identity, I like the idea of including Sikhs and others, but at the same time we should not downplay the very real and significant differences that exist because of different religious affiliations. A lot of people come to this website for a certain sense of informal intimacy--a home away from home-- which can only result from close cultural similarities. They don't visit for fulfilling a certain political agenda (global domination?!!) and "strategic" vision. It makes sense then that people complaan about the potential of diluting the common identity, which forms the basis for this, rather intense and sometimes abrasive, interaction. The difference is that as an intellectual, romantic experiment, in testing the uncertain waters of identity, this is a fine idea, but at the gut level, it may not sit very well with a lot of people.

The potential for conflict and contradiction will also grow tremendously, and should not be glossed over. Just to give one example, Jatt Sikhs have a very uneasy (to put it mildly) relationship with Arya Samaj, which they see as a Hindu device for domination and reabsorption of other communities. (By the way this is no stereotype, there is huge literature on this and how it was the Arya Samaj aggressiveness that led to millitancy in Punjab). For Jats, Arya Samaj has been a basis for their identity for well over hundred years now. Where's the meeting point here?

I could also see a similar contradictions on the issue of vegetarianism, which Sikhs in general decry as ghaas-phoos khana.

In sum, there is nothing absolutely unbridgeable that seperates us from Muslim and Sikh Jats, but let's do a realistic appraisal of the potential for conflict. If we fail to do this, the resulting problems may very well spell the end of this website.

PS: As someone else pointed out Jatt Sikhs have a tendency to see Haryanvi Jats as being backward and crude. This is also borne out by my personal experiences. I am describing my experience of studying in DAV College Chandigarh, where Jats and Jatts were like oil and water--absolutely no sense of shared identity. But then I can't claim that I was interacting with a representative sample!
 
Bilkul theek kaha Neeraj Jee,

ekak sentence 16 aanne kaa!! and 16 aanne related to this thread.


Neeraj Vedwan (Mar 04, 2004 07:40 p.m.):
For those who are confused about whether it's the Jat or the Sikh part of Jatt Sikh identity, which dominates: Jatt is simply the modifier, so they are primarily Sikhs. Just as African-Americans is the commonly used term to denote people of African descent, but defines them predominantly by the fact of their being Americans.

In the sense of expanding our identity, I like the idea of including Sikhs and others, but at the same time we should not downplay the very real and significant differences that exist because of different religious affiliations. A lot of people come to this website for a certain sense of informal intimacy--a home away from home-- which can only result from close cultural similarities. They don't visit for fulfilling a certain political agenda (global domination?!!) and "strategic" vision. It makes sense then that people complaan about the potential of diluting the common identity, which forms the basis for this, rather intense and sometimes abrasive, interaction. The difference is that as an intellectual, romantic experiment, in testing the uncertain waters of identity, this is a fine idea, but at the gut level, it may not sit very well with a lot of people.

The potential for conflict and contradiction will also grow tremendously, and should not be glossed over. Just to give one example, Jatt Sikhs have a very uneasy (to put it mildly) relationship with Arya Samaj, which they see as a Hindu device for domination and reabsorption of other communities. (By the way this is no stereotype, there is huge literature on this and how it was the Arya Samaj aggressiveness that led to millitancy in Punjab). For Jats, Arya Samaj has been a basis for their identity for well over hundred years now. Where's the meeting point here?

I could also see a similar contradictions on the issue of vegetarianism, which Sikhs in general decry as ghaas-phoos khana.

In sum, there is nothing absolutely unbridgeable that seperates us from Muslim and Sikh Jats, but let's do a realistic appraisal of the potential for conflict. If we fail to do this, the resulting problems may very well spell the end of this website.

PS: As someone else pointed out Jatt Sikhs have a tendency to see Haryanvi Jats as being backward and crude. This is also borne out by my personal experiences. I am describing my experience of studying in DAV College Chandigarh, where Jats and Jatts were like oil and water--absolutely no sense of shared identity. But then I can't claim that I was interacting with a representative sample!
 
I have spent 10 years in Punjab, did my graduation from there and has closely interacted with Jatt sikhs. I never found any curiosity in them to know about Hindu jats or their culture. There may be one or two sikh intellectuals who want to explore more about the Jat culture but not many. There are so many Jatt sikhs globally that if they started coming to Jatland, the site will predominantly become just any other Punjabi site. We have to create one more section for punjabi music and in that separate sections for hansraj hans, gurdaas maan, daler mehndi and so on.

They are already way ahead of us in terms of literacy, jobs, financial wealth etc. Whereas Jat community need to address some of these issues. These may not be important to them and they may have some other concerns and issues not relevant to our community.

If you interact with a common Jatt sikh, then you will observe the differences between a hindu and sikh jat. I am not opposing it because of the religion differences but the difference in their attitude and upbringing and the way they think of non punjabis.
 
I'm 1/2 sikh (100% jatt though) ... mujhe kyu 'allow' kiya is site pe fir???
 
Ramandeep (Mar 05, 2004 07:05 p.m.):
I'm 1/2 sikh (100% jatt though) ... mujhe kyu 'allow' kiya is site pe fir???

Dear Ramandeep

If you will permit a lighter note.

It means we are half way there

Jats are very broad minded people.

Issues must be discussed, and consensus achieved.

That is our ancient way.

Patience

Ravi
 
relax maar yaar ...

hindu / sikh ... unnis bees ka farak, as far as I am concerned.

I think what other people are scared that punjabi will eat this place up. so it becomes a punjabi-v-haryanvi issue?!

I came here 'cos I was interested in Jat history and also, see a bit more about haryana politics ('cos I am from Ambala originally).
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top