Chronology of Indian History --Newer discussions

[narenderkharb]

Friend,

Thanks for your comments. However, regarding reply to your last line first, the sources being quoted by me to advance my postulations carry my comments automatically. If some objections are raised or clarifications are sought on specific points I have always tried to reply them.

We have not lost sight of the target of identification of the forgotten abode of the Aryans. Moreover, till we reach the final stage of discussion, I think, all of us must keep the discussion open for betterment of the existing knowledge level of the topic being put here. That is important aspect because there is always scope of improvement if we are open to accept the well supported by sources findings. If anyone has some specific question/s that would be taken care of, this I can assure you, Kharb Sahib, Raviji and every participant.

None seems to have opposed the Central Asian Abode of the 'Aryans' so far. However, the discussion continues and suggestions for and against could emerge any time, so I think.

The overwhelming interest of the scholars leads one to hope that much penetrating comments and feed backs from all of us are coming in future to stimulate the research further.

Regards

Thanks Rajpal ji

Fully endorse your views here regarding discussion with an open mind .

This comment was just to solicit a more intense participation on your part .

Regards

 

[narenderkharb]

It was to illustrate that Witzel may have error'd again. His earlier errors and wrong identification of peoples were rightly pointed out by Bhagwan Singh and this may be another one of those instances. However, it may be also wrong to project our current knowledge of geography when discussing this matter. When we say beyond mountains or Himalayas, does it really mean that you cross all the chains till there are no himh shikahs. I am not sure. I have been to Srinagar 3 times and I can tell you that after many hours of bus trip, when you reach the valley, it seems beyond Himalayas and it appears flat too for quite a while. Try that sometime in winters too.

Well we are not here to discuss whether Witzel is right or wrong .

We are discussing geography of Devaloka Uttrakuru etc. as per purana aitreya brahmana or other ancient texts .

.So support or negate those writing by citing your reasons and justifications that would be a proper way of finding the truth about your beliefs.

 

[narenderkharb]

Can you suggest your idea about uttrakuru location?

Let us see whether it can be supported by any historical source or can stand any critical scrutiny.

If you believe Bhagwan Singh.Pls post his article so that we can see how solid his arguments are ?

 

[drrajpalsingh]

Rajpal ji, dates batiyeh! Reminds me of Kishore kumar song: ये क्या हुआ, कब हुआ, क्यो हुआ, कैसे हुआ ... blah blah....

Friend,

Welcome your curiosity but have a bit of patience or come out with your own views on this aspect.

According to me, first, let us agree on one identification of original home or abode of the Aryans.

If all of us, including your goodself, agree to the geographical identification given in my earlier posts of the Devaloka/Pitraloka and Uttarkuru as mentioned in old literature of India and Iran and supported by archaeological evidences collected in the region now known as Central Asia, then and only then, we could proceed to finding out their chronology.

As of now, some dissenting notes are discernible as to the geographical location of Uttarkuru. Please come out with your views or views of any other person whose views seem to be different than what we have discussed so far and help us to clinch the issue of ancient abode.

You would kindly appreciate that so far as Shri L.R. Burdalji's identification of later times Kuru home in India is concerned, it has nothing to do with Uttarkuru region connected with Devaloka abode of ancient Aryans. Yes, it may be taken up after settling the region and then chronology of the ancient Devaloka inhabitants.

 

[drrajpalsingh]

It was to illustrate that Witzel may have error'd again. His earlier errors and wrong identification of peoples were rightly pointed out by Bhagwan Singh and this may be another one of those instances. However, it may be also wrong to project our current knowledge of geography when discussing this matter. When we say beyond mountains or Himalayas, does it really mean that you cross all the chains till there are no himh shikahs. I am not sure. I have been to Srinagar 3 times and I can tell you that after many hours of bus trip, when you reach the valley, it seems beyond Himalayas and it appears flat too for quite a while. Try that sometime in winters too.

Thanks for your good input. The findings of Witzel have been proved untenable in the wikipedia/uttarakuru link. Hence it need not be quoted to linger on the discussion.

Yes, other newer studies, if any, are welcome.

 

[nrao]

I have re-read lot of these posts, which have presented very good information and I think for the time being I will go along with a hope that eventually you may disclose or reconcile, 2 questions/issues:

Time-frame, especially of various battles that you described in central-Asia which have a relation to 'Aryans', and
Where do Uttarakuru fit in this picture: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Formation_of_Kuru_tribe.JPG

Friend,

Welcome your curiosity but have a bit of patience or come out with your own views on this aspect.

According to me, first, let us agree on one identification of original home or abode of the Aryans.

If all of us, including your goodself, agree to the geographical identification given in my earlier posts of the Devaloka/Pitraloka and Uttarkuru as mentioned in old literature of India and Iran and supported by archaeological evidences collected in the region now known as Central Asia, then and only then, we could proceed to finding out their chronology.

As of now, some dissenting notes are discernible as to the geographical location of Uttarkuru. Please come out with your views or views of any other person whose views seem to be different than what we have discussed so far and help us to clinch the issue of ancient abode.

You would kindly appreciate that so far as Shri L.R. Burdalji's identification of later times Kuru home in India is concerned, it has nothing to do with Uttarkuru region connected with Devaloka abode of ancient Aryans. Yes, it may be taken up after settling the region and then chronology of the ancient Devaloka inhabitants.

 

[drrajpalsingh]

I have re-read lot of these posts, which have presented very good information and I think for the time being I will go along with a hope that eventually you may disclose or reconcile, 2 questions/issues:

Time-frame, especially of various battles that you described in central-Asia which have a relation to 'Aryans', and
Where do Uttarakuru fit in this picture: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Formation_of_Kuru_tribe.JPG

Friend,

The link provided by you in the post describes structure and emergence of various royal tribes of the 'Aryans' after their arrival in India. Or conversely, I may be allowed to add that it does not relate to the Proto-historic Devaloka-Pitrloka-Uttarkuru region or tribal structure or their activities in those areas and times.

Before we proceed further, kindly let us know if you agree or not to identification of Central Asia as the home of 'Aryans' which has been described variously in traditions of India and Iran as Devaloka-Pitraloka-Uttarkuru.

If yes ok or if not, then, share your reasons for doing so, please.

Thanks.

 

[nrao]

Pitras are just ancesstors both devas and Asuras ..Bhoot Paret Pisachas were/are nothing ..Yama may be a historical figure but his yamloka with Pret pisachas and bhoots are just mythical stories.

Saddened, sorry and most distraught to write this here but I think pisachas and rakshas do exist even now. The girl, for whom everybody was praying and who was studying to be a doctor so that she could save other peoples lives, died because there are modern day rakshas, pret and pisach. Extremely sad day today.

 

[drrajpalsingh]

Dr. Singh, you have provided good information and covered a lot of ground so far so naturally there are questions. While the case made for location of Uttarakuru is impressive, I do not think it is conclusive. First natural question has to be with time frame. In all the links that you have provided so far, date or timeframe is missing. That is very important.

For instance, if you say that these "Aryans" came from outside, then do you agree with current theory of circa 1200 BC or are you talking about earlier times. Since you cited Purans as one of the evidence, it may be important to take that view regarding that. Current view of various tribes is best summed in following url:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Formation_of_Kuru_tribe.JPG

This deals with arriving at Kuru tribes. I arrive to our current date using this method.

My understanding is that there are 40 generations of Puru/Bharat tribe followed by Kuru before we finally come to Kauravas as we know it. If you take 3 generations in a century using present calendar (giving each person about 33 years of life expectancy), then 40 generations will provide around 1200 years so moving into 3rd millennium BC
for the start of this line of history (I am using 1000 BC as the base year of current Mahabharat war). Do you place Uttarakurus in this time frame or some other time-frame, like before, after or during. If they arrived earlier than say Puru/Bharat times, say around 2500 BC and they 'invaded' then who did they invade as Harappans were not really in decline at this. If you place them later then where do you place them in the above geneology, if you think that makes sense at all. We can discard my speculation if all of above is nonsense. Dr Bhagwan Singh, who I quoted earlier in reference to Dr Witzel and the conference at the India Internal center, claims in his book, that both Vedic believers and non-vedic socities were living at the same place. Do uttarkurus have a prior time frame than Harappan timeframe?

There is an alternative location provided for uttarakurus by Dr. Witzel again. I quote from his paper which can be found on internet:

" Towards the end of the Vedic period, Kashmir indeed seems to appear in the texts: it may be indicated by the name Uttara-Madra, which occurs in the later part of AB 8.14 in a list of Vedic kingdoms and the titles of their kings. The country mentioned along with it, UttaraKuru, should, however, be sought in Himachal Pradesh, for example in an area including the Kulu Valley, the ancient Kulūa. Indeed, Madra was still known, even to the later Råjataranginīs, as the land immediately south of Kashmir."

I am also curious about the 1000 years Dev-Daitya war, where was this fought and who are the people being talked about in it?

Friend,

Your valuable input under reference is good and cannot be put aside as 'non-sense' as wrongly feared by you.

It would be a favour to me if you could share with us what Dr. Bhagwan Singh in his book has said on the issue under reference. This would necessarily help us to further crystalline our findings before they are put here for scrutiny of the scholars.

Yes, the tribes mentioned in the earlier posts indulged in the infighting among themselves in Proto-Historic age for establishing their supremacy in the region and a few of the battles connected with tradition based description of 'Deva-Asura Yudha' seem to have preceded matured phase of well known 'Harappa Civilisation'.

Thanks.

 

[narenderkharb]

Saddened, sorry and most distraught to write this here but I think pisachas and rakshas do exist even now. The girl, for whom everybody was praying and who was studying to be a doctor so that she could save other peoples lives, died because there are modern day rakshas, pret and pisach. Extremely sad day today.

Indeed a very sad day.I would say even Pisachas and Rakshasa of mythical stories were much better than these animals.

 

[lrburdak]

We have listed Mahabharata tribes on Jatland Wiki at - [Wiki]List of the Mahabharata tribes[/Wiki]

There is Bhuta (भूत) tribe mentioned in [Wiki]Ashvamedhika Parva[/Wiki] XIV.8.5), (XIV.8),

भूतानि च पिशाचाश चनासत्याव अश्विनाव अपि | गन्धर्वाप्सरसश चैव यक्षा थेवर्षयस तदा ||

See - [Wiki]Aswamedha Parva, Mahabharata/Book 14 Chapter 8[/Wiki]

I quote from this chapter:

"*There is a peak named Munjaban (Punjavan) on the summits of the Himalaya mountains, where the adorable Lord of Uma (Mahadeva) is constantly engaged in austere devotional exercises.

*There the mighty and worshipful god of great puissance, accompanied by his consort Uma, and armed with his trident, surrounded by wild goblins of many sorts, pursuing his random wish or fancy, constantly resides in the shade of giant forest trees, or in the caves, or on the rugged peaks of the great mountain.

*And there the Rudras, the Saddhyas, Viswedevas, the Vasus, Yama, Varuna, and Kuvera with all his attendants, and the spirits and goblins, and the two Aswins, the Gandharvas, the Apsaras, the Yakshas, as also the celestial sages, the Sun-gods, as well as the gods presiding over the winds, and evil spirits of all sorts, worship the high-souled Umapati, possessed of diverse characteristics.

*And, O foremost of conquerors, on all sides of that mountain, there exist mines of gold, resplendent as the rays of the sun.

*And O king, the attendants of Kuvera, desirous of doing good to him, protect these mines of gold from intruders, with uplifted arms.

*Hie thee thither, and appease that adorable god who is known by the following names:

Names of Shiva

Sharva, Vedha, Rudra, Shitikantha, Surapa, Suvarcha, Kapardi, Karala, Haryaksha, Varada, Tryaksha, Pushna, Dantabhida, Vamana, Shiva, Yamya, Avyaktarupa, Sadvritta, Shankara, Kshemya, Harikesa, Sthanu, Purusha, Harinetra, Munda, Krisha, Uttarana, Bhaskara, Sutirtha, Devadeva, Ranha, Ushnishi, Suvaktra, Sahasraksha, Midhu, Girisa, Prashanta, Yata, Chiravasa, Vilwadanda, Siddha, Sarvadandadhara, Mriga, Vyadha, Mahan, Dhanesa, Bhava, Vara, Somavaktra, Siddhamantra, Chakshu, Hiranyavahu, Ugra, Dikpati, Lelihana, Goshtha, Shiddhamantra, Vrishnu, Pasupati, Bhutapati, Vrisha, Matribhakta, Senani, Madhyama, Sruvahasta, Yati, Dhanwi, Bhargava, Aja, Krishnanetra, Virupaksha, Tikshnadanshtra, Tikshna, Vaiswanaramukha, Mahadyuti, Ananga, Sarva, Dikpati, Bilohita, Dipta, Diptaksha, Mahauja, Vasuretas, Suvapu, Prithu, Kritivasa, Kapalmali, Suvarnamukuta, Mahadeva, Krishna, Tryamvaka, Anagha, Krodhana, Nrisansa, Mridu, Vahusali, Dandi, Taptatapa, Akrurakarma, Sahasrasira, Sahasra-charana, Swadha-swarupa, Vahurupa, Danshtri, Pinaki, Mahadeva, Mahayogi, Avyaya, Trisulahasta, Varada, Tryamvaka, Bhuvaneswara, Tripuraghna, Trinayana, Trilokesa, Mahanja, Sarvabhuta-prabhava, Sarvabhuta-dharana, Dharanidhara, Isana, Sankara, Sarva, Siva, Visveswara, Bhava, Umapati, Pasupati, Viswarupa, Maheswara, Virupaksha, Dasabhuja, Vrishavadhwaja, Ugra, Sthanu, Siva, Rudra, Sarva, Girisa, Iswara, Sitakantha, Aja, Sukra, Prithu, Prithuhara, Vara, Viswarupa, Virupaksha, Bahurupa, Umapati, Anangangahara, Hara, Sharanya, Mahadeva, Chaturmukha.


*There bowing unto that deity, must thou crave his protection. And thus, O prince, making thy submission to that high-souled Mahadeva of great energy, shalt thou acquire that gold.

*And the men who go there thus, succeed in obtaining the gold. Thus instructed, Marutta, the son of Karandhama, did as he was advised. And made superhuman arrangements for the performance of his sacrifice. And artisans manufactured vessels of gold for that sacrifice.

*And Vrihaspati too, hearing of the prosperity of Marutta, eclipsing that of the gods, became greatly grieved at heart, and distressed at the thought that his rival Samvarta should become prosperous, became sick at heart, and the glow of his complexion left him, and his frame became emaciated.

*And when the lord of the gods came to know that Vrihaspati was much aggrieved, he went to him attended by the Immortals and addressed him thus."
******************************************
I have highlighted the key words which may help to research this place and people.

 

[narenderkharb]

Friend,

The link provided by you in the post describes structure and emergence of various royal tribes of the 'Aryans' after their arrival in India. Or conversely, I may be allowed to add that it does not relate to the Proto-historic Devaloka-Pitrloka-Uttarkuru region or tribal structure or their activities in those areas and times.

Before we proceed further, kindly let us know if you agree or not to identification of Central Asia as the home of 'Aryans' which has been described variously in traditions of India and Iran as Devaloka-Pitraloka-Uttarkuru or not.

If not, then share your reasons for doing so, please.

Thanks.

Agree with Rajpal ji here let us take issues one by one only then we can make progress in our quest for Abode of Aryans.

I have to name Ravi ji and Dyanand Deswal ji here ,.( believers of India as original home of Aryans theory) to present their reasoning(if they have any) to negate these ancient sources so that we can move on to discuss geography of Sarswati river ,Aryavarta,Movement of Kuru tribe etc.

Thanks and Regards

 

[narenderkharb]

We must study these ancient sources carefully otherwise we may be mislead in our quest...

Mahadeva lord is said to be lord of Bhuta and Pisachas who are souls of all earlier living persons who could not get a birth or a Mokhsa due to one reason or another .Any Morya,Puru,Yadu may turn in to a bhoot or Pisachs depending upon his deeds(these crimes and resultant effect Pisach or Pret are mentioned in religious texts) .This doesn't mean they were some seprate tribe .

Regards

 

[drrajpalsingh]

We have listed Mahabharata tribes on Jatland Wiki at - List of the Mahabharata tribes

There is Bhuta (भूत) tribe mentioned in Ashvamedhika Parva XIV.8.5), (XIV.8),

भूतानि च पिशाचाश चनासत्याव अश्विनाव अपि | गन्धर्वाप्सरसश चैव यक्षा थेवर्षयस तदा ||

See - Aswamedha Parva, Mahabharata/Book 14 Chapter 8

I quote from this chapter:

"*There is a peak named Munjaban (Punjavan) on the summits of the Himalaya mountains, where the adorable Lord of Uma (Mahadeva) is constantly engaged in austere devotional exercises.

*There the mighty and worshipful god of great puissance, accompanied by his consort Uma, and armed with his trident, surrounded by wild goblins of many sorts, pursuing his random wish or fancy, constantly resides in the shade of giant forest trees, or in the caves, or on the rugged peaks of the great mountain.

*And there the Rudras, the Saddhyas, Viswedevas, the Vasus, Yama, Varuna, and Kuvera with all his attendants, and the spirits and goblins, and the two Aswins, the Gandharvas, the Apsaras, the Yakshas, as also the celestial sages, the Sun-gods, as well as the gods presiding over the winds, and evil spirits of all sorts, worship the high-souled Umapati, possessed of diverse characteristics.

*And, O foremost of conquerors, on all sides of that mountain, there exist mines of gold, resplendent as the rays of the sun.

*And O king, the attendants of Kuvera, desirous of doing good to him, protect these mines of gold from intruders, with uplifted arms.

*Hie thee thither, and appease that adorable god who is known by the following names:

Names of Shiva

Sharva, Vedha, Rudra, Shitikantha, Surapa, Suvarcha, Kapardi, Karala, Haryaksha, Varada, Tryaksha, Pushna, Dantabhida, Vamana, Shiva, Yamya, Avyaktarupa, Sadvritta, Shankara, Kshemya, Harikesa, Sthanu, Purusha, Harinetra, Munda, Krisha, Uttarana, Bhaskara, Sutirtha, Devadeva, Ranha, Ushnishi, Suvaktra, Sahasraksha, Midhu, Girisa, Prashanta, Yata, Chiravasa, Vilwadanda, Siddha, Sarvadandadhara, Mriga, Vyadha, Mahan, Dhanesa, Bhava, Vara, Somavaktra, Siddhamantra, Chakshu, Hiranyavahu, Ugra, Dikpati, Lelihana, Goshtha, Shiddhamantra, Vrishnu, Pasupati, Bhutapati, Vrisha, Matribhakta, Senani, Madhyama, Sruvahasta, Yati, Dhanwi, Bhargava, Aja, Krishnanetra, Virupaksha, Tikshnadanshtra, Tikshna, Vaiswanaramukha, Mahadyuti, Ananga, Sarva, Dikpati, Bilohita, Dipta, Diptaksha, Mahauja, Vasuretas, Suvapu, Prithu, Kritivasa, Kapalmali, Suvarnamukuta, Mahadeva, Krishna, Tryamvaka, Anagha, Krodhana, Nrisansa, Mridu, Vahusali, Dandi, Taptatapa, Akrurakarma, Sahasrasira, Sahasra-charana, Swadha-swarupa, Vahurupa, Danshtri, Pinaki, Mahadeva, Mahayogi, Avyaya, Trisulahasta, Varada, Tryamvaka, Bhuvaneswara, Tripuraghna, Trinayana, Trilokesa, Mahanja, Sarvabhuta-prabhava, Sarvabhuta-dharana, Dharanidhara, Isana, Sankara, Sarva, Siva, Visveswara, Bhava, Umapati, Pasupati, Viswarupa, Maheswara, Virupaksha, Dasabhuja, Vrishavadhwaja, Ugra, Sthanu, Siva, Rudra, Sarva, Girisa, Iswara, Sitakantha, Aja, Sukra, Prithu, Prithuhara, Vara, Viswarupa, Virupaksha, Bahurupa, Umapati, Anangangahara, Hara, Sharanya, Mahadeva, Chaturmukha.


*There bowing unto that deity, must thou crave his protection. And thus, O prince, making thy submission to that high-souled Mahadeva of great energy, shalt thou acquire that gold.

*And the men who go there thus, succeed in obtaining the gold. Thus instructed, Marutta, the son of Karandhama, did as he was advised. And made superhuman arrangements for the performance of his sacrifice. And artisans manufactured vessels of gold for that sacrifice.
........................................
I have highlighted the key words which may help to research this place and people.

Burdakji,

Thanks for providing very good information. The Mahabharata identification of various tribes/groups of people have also been enumerated in the literature which throws light on the Proto-historic Devaloka and clearly mentions presence of Bhuts, Prets, Danvas, Asuras etc. who were categories of human beings as is the case with later day descriptions too.

So it is wrong to reject them as figments of imagination of the authors.

Thanks and regards.

 

[narenderkharb]

Burdakji,

Thanks for providing very good information. The Mahabharata identification of various tribes/groups of people have also been enumerated in the literature which throws light on the Proto-historic Devaloka and clearly mentions presence of Bhuts, Prets, Danvas, Asuras etc. who were categories of human beings as is the case with later day descriptions too.

So it is wrong to reject them as figments of imagination of the authors.

Thanks and regards.

May be I have not read about it . As you already wrote these groups are mentioned in Mishra's book so .Let us share info about these tribes of Bhoots and Praets.

 

[nrao]

Here are 2 references that I could find with a quick search online:

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/ipsg/vedic_review.htm (a review of his book), and

http://www.indicstudies.us/History/...e Address Vikram University, Ujjain, 2003.pdf

Hope this helps.

Friend,

Your valuable input under reference is good and cannot be put aside as 'non-sense' as wrongly feared by you.

It would be a favour to me if you could share with us what Dr. Bhagwan Singh in his book has said on the issue under reference. This would necessarily help us to further crystalline our findings before they are put here for scrutiny of the scholars.

Yes, the tribes mentioned in the earlier posts indulged in the infighting among themselves in Proto-Historic age for establishing their supremacy in the region and a few of the battles connected with tradition based description of 'Deva-Asura Yudha' seem to have preceded matured phase of well known 'Harappa Civilisation'.

Thanks.

 

[drrajpalsingh]

Here are 2 references that I could find with a quick search online:

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/ipsg/vedic_review.htm (a review of his book), and

http://www.indicstudies.us/History/Chronologyproject/Key-note%20Address%20Vikram%20University,%20Ujjain,%202003.pdf

Hope this helps.

Thanks Friend,

Another good information worth serious consideration relating to discussion of Migration/Immigration of Aryans.

The key-note address is very exhaustive piece of research and amply illuminates the later stage developments in the History of Aryans when they are in present day Afghanistan which certainly would be useful for understanding the history of India.

But the study does not throw any light on Deva-Asura Yudh--which seems to be a key point to solve the issue of original home of the Aryans.

More on the issue after going through the literature of Harnam Singh.

Kindly keep sharing your valuable inputs to take the issue to its logical conclusion on the basis of current state of our knowledge of the problem being discussed..

Thanks.

 

[drrajpalsingh]

Here are 2 references that I could find with a quick search online:

http://www.columbia.edu/cu/ipsg/vedic_review.htm (a review of his book), and

http://www.indicstudies.us/History/...e Address Vikram University, Ujjain, 2003.pdf

Hope this helps.

Perhaps you have gone through these well researched documents; would you kindly share what they say on the issue of Devasura Yudha on which Rigaveda, Puranas, Zend Avesta also have many references. Even later composition like Mahabharata makes a mention of it; see, Devasura Yudha (देवासुर युद्ध) (IX.44.24),

It would be of great help if someone comes up with his/her views/information/knowledge about the region where these battles occurred between the Devas and Asuras .

Thanks

 

[nrao]

I was trying to highlight few things about Vedic and Harappans times. Seems like you agree with it and now you are talking of much earlier time, perhaps early Harappan or pre-Harappan, as we know it.

Before we move to that, can you or somebody please provide some more information on asurology, or even rakshakology and maybe daityalogy. Some of it is already discussed above. Then it will make sense to move to Dev - Asur dishum-dishum ....

Thanks Friend,

Another good information worth serious consideration relating to discussion of Migration/Immigration of Aryans.

The key-note address is very exhaustive piece of research and amply illuminates the later stage developments in the History of Aryans when they are in present day Afghanistan which certainly would be useful for understanding the history of India.

But the study does not throw any light on Deva-Asura Yudh--which seems to be a key point to solve the issue of original home of the Aryans.

More on the issue after going through the literature of Harnam Singh.

Kindly keep sharing your valuable inputs to take the issue to its logical conclusion on the basis of current state of our knowledge of the problem being discussed..

Thanks.

 

[narenderkharb]

Perhaps you have gone through these well researched documents; would you kindly share what they say on the issue of Devasura Yudha on which Rigaveda, Puranas, Zend Avesta also have many references. Even later composition like Mahabharata makes a mention of it; see, Devasura Yudha (देवासुर युद्ध) (IX.44.24),

It would be of great help if someone comes up with his/her views/information/knowledge about the region where these battles occurred between the Devas and Asuras .

Thanks

Regarding our discussion of abode of Aryans now every participant seems to agree that Abode of Aryans was outside Indian geographic boundaries.

Laxman ji view is nagas were already in India who were the founders of nagara civilizaion before Aryans.

N Rao seems to agree with original Abode being outside India (with the condition of time frame being PreHarrpan).

Now I request /Invite,//exhort Ravi ji who had been so adament /consistent about Aryans being Indian to present his side of story about Uttrakuru/Devloka etc so that we can move on to second stage ....their arrival and intial settlements.