Death penalty for honor killing?

[kuldeeppunia25]

सुप्रीम कोर्ट ने झूठी शान के लिए हत्या यानी ऑनर किलिंग को राष्ट्र पर कलंक बताते हुए इसके दोषियों को मौत की सजा दिए जाने की वकालत की है। कोर्ट ने कहा कि यह दुर्लभतम अपराध की श्रेणी में आता है और इसका दोषी मौत की सजा के लायक है। ऑनर किलिंग की साजिश रचने वालों को मालूम होना चाहिए कि फांसी का तख्ता उनका इंतजार कर रहा है। यह महत्वपूर्ण फैसला न्यायमूर्ति मार्कंडेय काटजू एवं न्यायमूर्ति ज्ञान सुधा मिश्रा की पीठ ने झूठी इज्जत के लिए अपनी बेटी की हत्या करने वाले दिल्ली के भगवान दास की याचिका खारिज करते हुए सुनाया है। कोर्ट ने परिस्थितिजन्य साक्ष्यों के आधार पर भगवान दास को सुनाई गई आजीवन कारावास की सजा को सही ठहराया है। पीठ की ओर से फैसला लिखते हुए न्यायमूर्ति काटजू ने कहा है कि हमारे देश में विभिन्न स्थानों खासकर उत्तर प्रदेश, हरियाणा और राजस्थान में ऑनर किलिंग आम हो गया है।
क्या ओनर कीलिंग के लिए फांसी देना ठीक है ?

 

[gathwal]

its not a gud decision in my view..............this court statement can built up more confident in the youth to go against the customs of our marriages..........

 

[riyaa]

क्या ओनर कीलिंग के लिए फांसी देना ठीक है ?

Kya honour killing theek hai?

 

[fateh]

Kya honour killing theek hai?

No killing is correct, what to talk about honour killing. There is no honour in any killing. I would like to draw attention of those who were making khap panchayats responsible for such killings, is any khap panchayat involved in this case. Isupport biggest punishment for person responsible for any killing including khap panchayat if at fault but how can SC bann khap system which is much older tradition/practice in our country than the british legal system.

 

[kuldeephmh]

बिलकुल ठीक है और मै तो ये कहूँगा की फांसी की सज़ा तो कम है इस कुकृत्य के लिए इस से बढ़कर भी कोई सज़ा है तो वो देनी चाहिए !
अगर आप Honour Killing करने वालो की नज़र से भी देखें तो अगर किसी की इज्जत कम होने की कीमत दुसरे को अपनी जान देकर चुकानी पड़ती है तो उसकी जान की कीमत कु६ नहीं बनती?
Honour Killing एक अत्यंत ही घोर अपराध है इसे रोकने के असरकारक उपाय जल्द से जल्द किये जाने चाहिए ! इसके साथ साथ हम सबका भी दायित्व बनता है की हम समाज में जनजाग्रति फैलाये और इस कुरीति को मिटाने के प्रयास करे क्योकि आने वाले समय का समाज हमारा ही है और हम ही उसके निर्णायक होंगे !

 

[singhvp]

[FONT=&quot]However, I would not like to offer any comment on the propriety of honourable court’s judgement as well as the case judged upon, it would certainly provide a deterrent to the incidence of honour killings in future. Those who do not plan any honour killing need not to worry about this judgement. Also, those daredevils who are in favour of honour killing must be brave enough not to be scared by this judgement and should be prepared for any sacrifice (including capital punishment) for the sake of honour of their family. Moreover, there is nothing new in the judgement. There is already a provision in the Indian Penal Code for capital punishment depending upon the gravity of crime and the circumstantial evidences etc. This is just a fresh interpretation of the rules in wake of the recent honour killings.[/FONT]

 

[fateh]

[FONT=&quot]However, I would not like to offer any comment on the propriety of honourable court’s judgement as well as the case judged upon, it would certainly provide a deterrent to the incidence of honour killings in future. Those who do not plan any honour killing need not to worry about this judgement. Also, those daredevils who are in favour of honour killing must be brave enough not to be scared by this judgement and should be prepared for any sacrifice (including capital punishment) for the sake of honour of their family. Moreover, there is nothing new in the judgement. There is already a provision in the Indian Penal Code for capital punishment depending upon the gravity of crime and the circumstantial evidences etc. This is just a fresh interpretation of the rules in wake of the recent honour killings.[/FONT]

Brother, you are right that there is already provision for such punishment, My comment is on the judgement passed earlier against khaps. SC has all the power to give any punishment to defaulters including khap members responsible for such killings but SC cannot bann all khaps, khap system is one of the customs which were one of the base on which our law was ennected, if govt brings some law, than the situation is different, SC judgements can also become law, provided the judgement is based on the law, Anyway, these are legal matters, why should we waste others time

 

[kuldeeppunia25]

We all know that our honorable court has law for murder or other crimes.But as it was said by honorable court itself that it is a rarest of rare case and said “‘Honour' killings have become commonplace in many parts of the country, particularly in Haryana, western Uttar Pradesh, and Rajasthan and this is relating to the khap system also,in most cases khaps were in direct involvement.Thats why i put a question in front of honorables Jatlanders because majority belongs to above mentioned areas.As far as the result of this decision is concern than no law will provide deterrence to these type of incident as this is not a common robbery type crime It is link up with the sentiments and thinking of peoples.The person who take his honor above his or her dearly loved and take a such hard step then no law or boundary can stop him or her.We also have LAWS For murder and other crimes but what is the rate of crime today.So if the mentality of the peoples change this will be under control.these are my personal views.


let me clear at this juncture that no honor or any other type of killing is right.For the sake of any honor how someone can give such type of punishment.On one hand we are thinking that we are advance and on other we are following Taliban.

 

[singhvp]

No one can stop any khap or a social group from pursuing its agenda of social reforms, propagation and preservation of healthy traditions. But no country can allow anyone to run a parallel government which might lead to anarchy. If some of our actions like honour killing contravene rules of the land, the law enforcement agencies have to fulfil their obligations. I do not think majority of well meaning people belonging to different khaps have any problem with the current judgement as they have their own agenda of peace and progress. Hardly a few who are discreetly harbouring political ambitions may have their reservation in this regard. If they do not patronize this country's judiciary, the only solution remains is an amendment in the constitution recognizing khaps as the statutory bodies having parallel judiciary and executive. The second option is demand of seperate nations by the respective khaps titled as "Khapland", Jatland, Yadavland, Brahamnland, Baniyaland, Nailand, Harizanland etc. For the sake of administrative convenience too, the proposal seems to be viable and by doing so, we will be able to travel back in time thereby going to the golden era of pre-independance where we will find border of another country after every 50-100 miles.

 

[samarkadian]

But few questions out of my morbid curosity:-

1.How does court defines pride and honour?

1.1 What are provosions in over-rated constituion to protect family values and traditions of Indian civilization.?

 

[ravinderpannu]

its not a gud decision in my view..............this court statement can built up more confident in the youth to go against the customs of our marriages..........

How it can encourage youth for going against the customs..plz elaborate buddy,,
I believe its the moral education that is required to carry on the customs and also it is the one's love for traditions and our culture..the society which can preserve and follow its traditions and culture shall grow .

 

[ravinderpannu]

Kya honour killing theek hai?

This topic itself had been discussed in one of the previous threads,,,
NO it is not..!!

 

[ravinderpannu]

But few questions out of my morbid curosity:-

1.How does court defines pride and honour?

1.1 What are provosions in over-rated constituion to protect family values and traditions of Indian civilization.?

Samar,

1. The same way people who are indulged in ''honour killing'' define honour...Court takes that same (inhuman) attitude as honour.
1.1 No constitution can make rules to behold family values, ....but yes these are taught from one generation to other as they are taught to me or you. ( if we want a constitution for protecting family values and traditions than our country will not be second to Saudi Arabia where they chop-off the hands of a common thief or beat to death by stones the victim accused of any other high rated crime..rape.,, blasphemy..murder etc...).

By the way it seems ( the way you asked these questions) that you favour honour killing.

 

[rakeshsehrawat]

Samar,

1. The same way people who are indulged in ''honour killing'' define honour...Court takes that same (inhuman) attitude as honour.
1.1 No constitution can make rules to behold family values, ....but yes these are taught from one generation to other as they are taught to me or you. ( if we want a constitution for protecting family values and traditions than our country will not be second to Saudi Arabia where they chop-off the hands of a common thief or beat to death by stones the victim accused of any other high rated crime..rape.,, blasphemy..murder etc...).

By the way it seems ( the way you asked these questions) that you favour honour killing.

Honour killing is discussed several times anyways.

Do You think that honour killing is a preplanned murder?

What is difference between killing and murder?

Do you think it is easy to kill the same child for whom a lot of dreams and visualizations are made?

Don't you guys feel that honour got a place on top of everything in our life?

 

[fateh]

How it can encourage youth for going against the customs..plz elaborate buddy,,
I believe its the moral education that is required to carry on the customs and also it is the one's love for traditions and our culture..the society which can preserve and follow its traditions and culture shall grow .

I FULLY AGREE WITH YOU PEOPLE, BUT VP BHAI, MY POINT IS THAT ALL KHAPS OR INFACT 99% OF THEM ARE NOT INVOLVED IN ANY KILLING, Thus why media, the courts and few of us should blame the khaps. most of the murders take place for some loss, for some gain (of material/respect/sentiments/body) or by accident and the honour killing is also a family affair, if family members donot want, can any khap dare to even think of punishing any effected yougth.MY second point is all murderers belong to some or the other organisation/state/dist/tehsil/village etc, in that case will court bann all such organisations/institutions. Dear, khaps are not parlal legal system but certainly THEY SUPLIMENT the existing system and help the administration and judicial system with in the frame work of the law of the land and the natural justice. You know many times the existing legal system fails to satisfy the applicant/sufferer and most of such cases the panchayat decisions give ever lasting, transparent and quicker solution to add to the peace & harmony in the society. It is noticed that most of the decisions of such panchayats are exceptable to both parties and the society as such, hence cannot be talebani/wrong and any party can again go to legal solution if not satisfied with panchayat decision, so basically the family/an individual /perticular khap or individuals in khap is responsible not all khaps. BROTHER, YOU MUST HAVE NOTICED MANY MANY SERIOUS PROBLEMS ARE SOLVED OUT SIDE COURT, DO WE CALL SUCH DECISIONS ALSO TALEBANI OR PARLAL LEGAL SYSTEM

 

[rakeshsehrawat]

I FULLY AGREE WITH YOU PEOPLE, BUT VP BHAI, MY POINT IS THAT ALL KHAPS OR INFACT 99% OF THEM ARE NOT INVOLVED IN ANY KILLING, Thus why media, the courts and few of us should blame the khaps. most of the murders take place for some loss, for some gain (of material/respect/sentiments/body) or by accident and the honour killing is also a family affair, if family members donot want, can any khap dare to even think of punishing any effected yougth.MY second point is all murderers belong to some or the other organisation/state/dist/tehsil/village etc, in that case will court bann all such organisations/institutions. Dear, khaps are not parlal legal system but certainly THEY SUPLIMENT the existing system and help the administration and judicial system with in the frame work of the law of the land and the natural justice. You know many times the existing legal system fails to satisfy the applicant/sufferer and most of such cases the panchayat decisions give ever lasting, transparent and quicker solution to add to the peace & harmony in the society. It is noticed that most of the decisions of such panchayats are exceptable to both parties and the society as such, hence cannot be talebani/wrong and any party can again go to legal solution if not satisfied with panchayat decision, so basically the family/an individual /perticular khap or individuals in khap is responsible not all khaps. BROTHER, YOU MUST HAVE NOTICED MANY MANY SERIOUS PROBLEMS ARE SOLVED OUT SIDE COURT, DO WE CALL SUCH DECISIONS ALSO TALEBANI OR PARLAL LEGAL SYSTEM

Media being the fifth pillar got a great resposibility to awake and guide people towards a better society. But this is business also so it also revolves around money. Being a media person you can make money when more and more people are using your services resulting in more revenues. TRP's of a channel matter more then anything else for TV channels and these TRP's increase by making any simple news or presenting a news as SANSANI . Because these words like SANSANI and EXCULUSIVE make people think that this might be different. Thought leads to viewing to that particular channel and finally TRP's or more clicks on website or more selling of newspaper. This media presented jats are Barbaric, Arrogant, Mindless and Illitrate so that changed attitude of other people towards us. In the same way they present Khaps as hidden guiders of society and compared jat society as talinban and attitude of other castes changed towards us. This is not a problem what media is saying and what other people are saying
The main problem is "WHAT WE ARE THINKING OF OURSELVES AND OUR SYSTEM AND TRADITIONS?"
DO WE BELIVE THAT WE ARE AN OLD CIVILIZATION?
DO WE BELIEVE THAT WE ARE DIFFERENT FROM THE REST?
DO WE BELIEVE THAT THIS IS TIME TO UNITE?
DO WE FEEL PROUD TO BE A JAT ???
and if answer is YES then this is time to unite and show that what power do we have or just sit and wait to get diluted and LOOSE YOUR IDENTITY.

 

[ravinderpannu]

I FULLY AGREE WITH YOU PEOPLE, BUT VP BHAI, MY POINT IS THAT ALL KHAPS OR INFACT 99% OF THEM ARE NOT INVOLVED IN ANY KILLING, Thus why media, the courts and few of us should blame the khaps. most of the murders take place for some loss, for some gain (of material/respect/sentiments/body) or by accident and the honour killing is also a family affair, if family members donot want, can any khap dare to even think of punishing any effected yougth.MY second point is all murderers belong to some or the other organisation/state/dist/tehsil/village etc, in that case will court bann all such organisations/institutions. Dear, khaps are not parlal legal system but certainly THEY SUPLIMENT the existing system and help the administration and judicial system with in the frame work of the law of the land and the natural justice. You know many times the existing legal system fails to satisfy the applicant/sufferer and most of such cases the panchayat decisions give ever lasting, transparent and quicker solution to add to the peace & harmony in the society. It is noticed that most of the decisions of such panchayats are exceptable to both parties and the society as such, hence cannot be talebani/wrong and any party can again go to legal solution if not satisfied with panchayat decision, so basically the family/an individual /perticular khap or individuals in khap is responsible not all khaps. BROTHER, YOU MUST HAVE NOTICED MANY MANY SERIOUS PROBLEMS ARE SOLVED OUT SIDE COURT, DO WE CALL SUCH DECISIONS ALSO TALEBANI OR PARLAL LEGAL SYSTEM

Fateh Sir,
I am not a percent against the KHAP PANCHAYATS , these are the very base of the JAT traditions and show to all others that Jat live by the rule and discipline , all i was hailing was the murder/killing in the name of family honour.

There are several instances where KHAPS have made a significant impact on the society and kept it alive and human.
Ans i also believe that the khaps are not a parallel judiciary system , infact it helps the courts and people itself as many cases get settled by the decision of the panchayats thus by saving the money of the two parties who otherwise are bound to spend huge amount for their fights/honours by paying it to advocates...and we know how long time a case in India takes to come to a final hearing.
.,.,. but i do advocate that Honour killing is not the solution for the situation being faced by our society today i.e the intercaste or same caste marriage or so called the love marriages in the same village.

 

[ravinderpannu]

Honour killing is discussed several times anyways.

Do You think that honour killing is a preplanned murder?

What is difference between killing and murder?

Do you think it is easy to kill the same child for whom a lot of dreams and visualizations are made?

Don't you guys feel that honour got a place on top of everything in our life?

Rakesh,

Yes, honour killing is a planned murder, as soon as the family gets to know this they turn blood thirsty.

There is absolutely no difference between killing and murder... ( yes killing in self defence and unintentional killing are different , they are treated in a different way by the law too.).

There are very less or almost no dreams for girls in RURAL Areas,,,but yes the situation is changing these days and Kids are getting more exposure and opportunities...
moreover if you try to find how much love they have in a family...how much time they spend with there kids...how much they try to educate them about right and wrong..,, and when the kids engage in an relationship...DO YOU THINK THAT PARENTS ARE TOTALLY UNAWARE....NO NO,,, when kids choose a wrong path their parents get a slight idea definately SINCE they have not spoken to kids about LOVE/SEX/TRADITIONS/ADOLESCENCE in years,, they rather find it easy to kill a GIRL when they(lover couple) take extreme steps of getting married in same caste etc....


THERE IS NO HONOUR IN KILLING....!!!


by the way you also seem to be an enthusiastic supporter of honour killing,,,by the way we should teach our kids/society good.

 

[singhvp]

I FULLY AGREE WITH YOU PEOPLE, BUT VP BHAI, MY POINT IS THAT ALL KHAPS OR INFACT 99% OF THEM ARE NOT INVOLVED IN ANY KILLING, Thus why media, the courts and few of us should blame the khaps. most of the murders take place for some loss, for some gain (of material/respect/sentiments/body) or by accident and the honour killing is also a family affair, if family members donot want, can any khap dare to even think of punishing any effected yougth.MY second point is all murderers belong to some or the other organisation/state/dist/tehsil/village etc, in that case will court bann all such organisations/institutions. Dear, khaps are not parlal legal system but certainly THEY SUPLIMENT the existing system and help the administration and judicial system with in the frame work of the law of the land and the natural justice. You know many times the existing legal system fails to satisfy the applicant/sufferer and most of such cases the panchayat decisions give ever lasting, transparent and quicker solution to add to the peace & harmony in the society. It is noticed that most of the decisions of such panchayats are exceptable to both parties and the society as such, hence cannot be talebani/wrong and any party can again go to legal solution if not satisfied with panchayat decision, so basically the family/an individual /perticular khap or individuals in khap is responsible not all khaps. BROTHER, YOU MUST HAVE NOTICED MANY MANY SERIOUS PROBLEMS ARE SOLVED OUT SIDE COURT, DO WE CALL SUCH DECISIONS ALSO TALEBANI OR PARLAL LEGAL SYSTEM

Fateh Singh Ji, first of all let me clarify that I am a strong supporter of Jats forming a very strong and formidable group. At present, we are divided in hundreds of sub-groups in the name of khaps - bigger khaps, smaller khaps, more important khaps, less important khaps etc. etc.

Only some street smart Jats have hijacked the Jat organisations like Jat Sabha, Sarv Khap Panchayat etc. or whatever it is - just examples. There is no proper representation of Jats in any of the "Jat Sanshthas" and the poor farmers living in far-flung areas have no say at all. So, first thing is that a radical reform in the electoral process is needed so that only genuine and honest people occupy the prominent positions. For example, in my village, I never saw any election for any Khap so far. During my entire life, I have never voted or given my opinion in favour of any Khap representative. Some influential people with the help of their cronies manage to assume the leadership role.

First thing, we must do is to disband the present institutions and should have fresh elections for only one single and solid "Jat Sabha" which should have representation of all and sundry. Then we will talk about our agenda. We should, of course, retain our gotra identity for matrimonial affairs and not for asserting influence over each other which is the case at present.

 

[singhvp]

Media being the fifth pillar got a great resposibility to awake and guide people towards a better society. But this is business also so it also revolves around money. Being a media person you can make money when more and more people are using your services resulting in more revenues. TRP's of a channel matter more then anything else for TV channels and these TRP's increase by making any simple news or presenting a news as SANSANI . Because these words like SANSANI and EXCULUSIVE make people think that this might be different. Thought leads to viewing to that particular channel and finally TRP's or more clicks on website or more selling of newspaper. This media presented jats are Barbaric, Arrogant, Mindless and Illitrate so that changed attitude of other people towards us. In the same way they present Khaps as hidden guiders of society and compared jat society as talinban and attitude of other castes changed towards us. This is not a problem what media is saying and what other people are saying
The main problem is "WHAT WE ARE THINKING OF OURSELVES AND OUR SYSTEM AND TRADITIONS?"
DO WE BELIVE THAT WE ARE AN OLD CIVILIZATION?
DO WE BELIEVE THAT WE ARE DIFFERENT FROM THE REST?
DO WE BELIEVE THAT THIS IS TIME TO UNITE?
DO WE FEEL PROUD TO BE A JAT ???
and if answer is YES then this is time to unite and show that what power do we have or just sit and wait to get diluted and LOOSE YOUR IDENTITY.

Rakesh, I agree with you as far as your allegation against media is concerned. But we can not expect country's Judiciary to grant sanctity to the honour killing and its perpetrators. One has to commit this crime at one's own risk. And I am sure, no court or legislative in the world can venture to give sanctity to killing anyone in the name of honour. Even the terrorists or traitors are executed by the state machinery after a fair trial and completion of due process of law. It is, therefore, not sane to expect any concession from the Supreme court. It is sheer bad luck if someone's children bring a bad name or dishonour to his/her family. Those who are seriously concerned about family's honour, should be prepared to sacrifice their life too if they have to kill their kins.