Delayed Justice Is NO justice at all !

[sjakhars]

Shocking piece of information.
Govt. or opposition will not do anything. All are "ek hi thaili ke chatte batte."

I wanted to know if people in India can file thousands of PILs in this case? Mr. Keshwani has all the proof and evidences? If yes, then what will be the efftect.

As Yudhvir Ji, first priority should be cleaning the toxic material from the factory site and all the expense should made to be paid by UC or its sister/mother/father company.
Second priority should be to make stringent las against this kind of disasters. Nuclear liability is in the parliament and all this pressure by the public can remove the limited liability section in this bill. Later, if this is achieved then something else should be done with the people and organizations who let it happen, who safely evicted Anderson, the judge who changed the IPC section in the Supreme court and the investigating agency which did not do its job.

 

[virj]

its a soul shaking documentary. thanks for putting.

is it true that govt of that time had helped warren andernson to exit sfely frm India.?

Yes. Sadly its true. As posted by arvind and R2K uncle they all are hand in glove. Govt get lot of money and hence their interest lie somewhere else

 

[rakeshsehrawat]

Ek baat Samajh nahi aayee
Rajiv Gandhi ke marne ke baad jo bhi ghotale ughde unme sabse upar Rajiv Gandhi ka naam hai
Aur log ye keh kar chup ho jate hain ki marne wale ka naam badnam mat karo

 

[brahmtewatia]

kapil,

although late, don't you think this is a wake-up call for the state to ensure that the same is not repeated again? you can find so many reasons for discussing the matter, apart from the breaking news.

you tell me one thing, did you had all this information of what has been discussed here? i mean the involvement of the state as well as the judiciary that allowed safe passage to anderson... honestly, i didn't had that detailed info.

the frustration nd outburst of all the members on the laxity of the state nd judiciary is very much justified. in fact all this is not coming at the drop of a hat... instead it is coming after that hat has been walked over nd crushed by the state as well as judiciary for 26 long years.

anyways, now that you've highlighted yr concern, i'm sure members will take care in future <<< this is sarcasm, but no pun intended. hope you understand, what i mean to say.

So how come this judgment leads to all this hulla-bolo NOW? Ironically, a worse outcome of no judgment being given even now would have led to no reaction from anyone!!

As usual, it it good opportunity for the media to indulge in some short term sh*t show. And as usual, we are ready to pick the baton and make fantastic conclusions- judiciary sucks, system sucks, politicians suck, India sucks. Oh comeon! Whether you believe India is a failed state or working state NOW, should not have much to do with this case. The disaster happened 26 years ago. The charges, the compensation, the deals- secret and official, everything happened much much earlier.

There is no harm in objectively discussing the case history and looking at what went wrong and learning lessons from there. But what's ridiculous is to make summary judgments about India at the drop of a hat.

feel it... its here !

 

[singhvp]

Reading all this makes me even more sad. Presently I am in USA and every day I am reading about this oil leak disaster by BP oil well in the gulf of Mexico. Same story, except that this time its the marine life which is being killed. Same negligence on the part of BP. East India Company type of operations ..... same old story...One thing is very sure. We can not count on politicians. Only the people of this country can save nation...Our kings sold us to Muslims invaders and then to British. It was the public who fought and got the freedom. Once again politicians are failing us. We hardly have much options, but keep fighting...else we are doomed once again...Its darkness all around...crooks everywhere.
RK^2

The incidence of disasters keeps increasing in correlation with the pace of industrialization, be it Chernobyl in erstwhile USSR, Chasnala mine flooding or BP oil slik. It would be wishful thinking to rule out the UC and BP like disasters in future. The crux of the matter is how serious the governments are to avert such disasters in future through stringent legislations and indemnification of losses, so caused involving men and material. It is doubtful that safety standards in the industrial installations in our country are upto the mark, especially in the small scale industrial establishments.

It may be true that the politicians are failing us, but the question is who these politicians are? They are not aliens. They are people like us from the same planet. It is the common man who elects them to avoid anarchic situation in society. We may or may not like it, but politics will always remain there; good or bad as society needs to be governed in an institutionalized way by a government so formed by the so called politicians. So better resort to good politics rather than being driven by the individualistic agenda of personal gratification which most of us resort to.

As some other members have suggested extradition of 88 years old Anderson is not going to bring any major relief to the victims and their families. Need of the hour is to formulate policies prohibiting establishment of hazardous industries in the vicinity of residential areas and protection of lives and interests of industrial workers in such units while offering adequate compensation to victims.

 

[hemanthooda]

Very Valid point put up by VP sir, currently we have no safety standards practically.Everything exists on paper.....

I was reading somewhere (Can't recollect) that we have one of the best policies in world(NREGA, etc......) but problem lies in implementation....as it is said that only 10 paise of allocated 1 rs. reach the intended user.

We better pull up our socks & make our beaurocracy more efficient & corruption free...

 

[kapdal]

kapil,

although late, don't you think this is a wake-up call for the state to ensure that the same is not repeated again? you can find so many reasons for discussing the matter, apart from the breaking news.

you tell me one thing, did you had all this information of what has been discussed here? i mean the involvement of the state as well as the judiciary that allowed safe passage to anderson... honestly, i didn't had that detailed info.

the frustration nd outburst of all the members on the laxity of the state nd judiciary is very much justified. in fact all this is not coming at the drop of a hat... instead it is coming after that hat has been walked over nd crushed by the state as well as judiciary for 26 long years.

anyways, now that you've highlighted yr concern, i'm sure members will take care in future <<< this is sarcasm, but no pun intended. hope you understand, what i mean to say.



feel it... its here !

Brahm,

I don't think you appreciated my message. I am sure you had the information that a terrible disaster happened in Bhopal in 1984 and some legal case was going on. Why were you not curious yourself to find out about what had exactly happened? Surely, the magnitude of tragedy didn't dawn on you just now. So now a judgment is pronounced in the case that was filed ages ago giving convicting the accused and giving them maximum punishment as per the cases against them. Media picks it up and sells it as a travesty of justice. And you say it is justification enough for you to get frustrated and indulge in outbursts. I'd say you are waiting to get frustrated and have an outburst. If the media had picked any other story and showed it to you, your reaction would have been the same. Ranting in frustration on whatever sh*t is sold to you is pointless- it is your frustration and your rant, so no one is saying it is not justified. (And you is a figure of speech here, not directed at you per se)

I don't see any travesty of justice happening NOW. It had happened long time back. I am clear that atleast something good happened NOW that the case came to an end and the accused were convicted. Something better may happen if all this hyperventilation by media leads to getting some more money or punishing some more. Do I really think it'd happen? No. Two weeks from now, media would be selling something else to us.

And the real pity is that most of the debate is still about the legal and controversial aspects of the case- who let Anderson go, who is really responsible, etc. etc. It is like trying to solve a murder mystery 25 years after the crime- good luck with that. Who is talking about the current situation? Some time back, I saw the conditions in the plant in a random BBC documentary (Of all things about a BBC man travelling through the world on Tropic of Cancer, thus passing through Bhopal). It was obvious to him to go and see what is going on now at the site. It is shocking that 26 years after the tragedy, the site has still not been cleaned up. A chemical factory was abandoned just like that and all these toxic materials are there in open polluting land and water and posing health hazards. Our media people have all the time to sit in studios with legal experts and discuss the responsibilities. I didn't see anyone going inside the plant and highlighting this even NOW. Then, around 470m USD was paid as compensation by Union Carbide. The amount was agreed by GoI. It came out to be about 2200 USD per victim. So media is ranting that this amount should have been much more. I am thinking what happened to this amount- did the victims actually get it- it maynot have been a lifetime's security- but it was still a sizable amount in 1980s.

I also don't think this can be any sort of wake-up call for the state. Wake-up call was the day the disaster happened. 26 years have passed since then. Those who needed to be woken up then are either too old or dead. The state itself has changed. Not saying that the new state is all alert and has ensured such disasters don't happen. We as a country are very lax about health and safety standards. It is much better than 1984, but attitudes need to change much more. And state alone can't do anything about it.

By the way, nothing of this magnitude happened in the previous 26 years. If the situation was absolutely hopeless, we should have seen many such disasters? In a way, I think we have to show a bit of equanimity about such Black Swan events, that happen rarely but have a huge negative impact. Earthquakes or volcanoes can flatten whole cities, but we accept them as natural disasters we have no control on. This is much harder to digest as it was caused by human carelessness and error. Punish the accused and help the victims by all means. But let's not get too carried away and write epitaphs for the nation.

 

[brahmtewatia]

Brahm,

I don't think you appreciated my message.
...
...
Media picks it up and sells it as a travesty of justice. And you say it is justification enough for you to get frustrated and indulge in outbursts. I'd say you are waiting to get frustrated and have an outburst.
...
...
Two weeks from now, media would be selling something else to us.
...
...
And the real pity is that most of the debate is still about the legal and controversial aspects of the case- who let Anderson go, who is really responsible, etc. etc. It is like trying to solve a murder mystery 25 years after the crime- good luck with that. Who is talking about the current situation?
...
...
I didn't see anyone going inside the plant and highlighting this even NOW.
...
...
So media is ranting that this amount should have been much more.
...
...
I also don't think this can be any sort of wake-up call for the state. Wake-up call was the day the disaster happened. 26 years have passed since then. Those who needed to be woken up then are either too old or dead. The state itself has changed. Not saying that the new state is all alert and has ensured such disasters don't happen. We as a country are very lax about health and safety standards. It is much better than 1984, but attitudes need to change much more. And state alone can't do anything about it.
...
...
But let's not get too carried away and write epitaphs for the nation.

kapil,

i appreciated your message pretty well… nd my reply, too, was crystal clear wch you seem to have overlooked… i’ll repeat that again. refer my previously quoted message at the bottom of the post, after you go through the contents in this post of mine.

we all have so many reasons to feel frustrated… after all we are all Indians nd want to see india at the best. the stench of rot stems from top to bottom... be it our bureaucracy, or the three machinery of our governance viz legislative, judiciary nd executive… they all need complete overhauling... period !

Who is talking about the current situation?

i am talking of the current situation. if you go through my 1st (prakashit) post on the thread (post # 16), i’m no where doing the autopsy of the dead case. instead, i’ve elaborated, all the way, all the valid reasons to look forward nd get the "nuclear liability bill" passed with clearly defined ratifications. i’m no where beating around the bush, but it seems you just got pumped-up with the frustrated title of the post “failed justice of the failed state”… isn’t it?

indeed, the wake up call was 26 years back. but, now is the bigger wake-up call... cos we are now going nuclear. hence, it makes it very solid ground to show up for the call of the day.

if we members are showing the frustration on the failed state of affairs… aren’t you showing your frustration towards our irresponsible Indian media ??? appreciate that every individual may have its own reasons for discussion and/or frustration. also, please appreciate that most diverse nd intellectual minds are at work at JATland (please don’t disturb them). also, please appreciate the diversity in thoughts. imo there is no good reason for you to make such a big hue nd cry. <<< this is what i want to convey, for which i also gave you a hint in my previous post. refer below, again.
v
v

anyways, now that you've highlighted yr concern, i'm sure members will take care in future <<< this is sarcasm, but no pun intended. hope you understand, what i mean to say.

[FONT=&quot]hope that clarifies my point to you nd to the subject.

[/FONT] feel it... its here !

 

[samarkadian]

Threads like these prove how we are puppets in the hands of the media, the same media that we love to hate. The disaster happened 26 years ago. The legal controversies have existed from that unfortunate day. Was mainstream media highlighting those? No. Was anyone in JL talking about those? I did a search for Bhopal on JL- not a single thread on this issue atleast in the last 5 years. What has suddenly changed? Judgment has been pronounced on one of the cases. Accused were actually convicted and sentenced maximum punishment as per the cases against them. That the cases were these and not harsher is not new information. That Anderson was not an accused in this case is not new information. So how come this judgment leads to all this hulla-bolo NOW? Ironically, a worse outcome of no judgment being given even now would have led to no reaction from anyone!!

As usual, it it good opportunity for the media to indulge in some short term sh*t show. And as usual, we are ready to pick the baton and make fantastic conclusions- judiciary sucks, system sucks, politicians suck, India sucks. Oh comeon! Whether you believe India is a failed state or working state NOW, should not have much to do with this case. The disaster happened 26 years ago. The charges, the compensation, the deals- secret and official, everything happened much much earlier.

There is no harm in objectively discussing the case history and looking at what went wrong and learning lessons from there. But what's ridiculous is to make summary judgments about India at the drop of a hat.

All we are doing is reacting to the next stuff thrown at us. 1 week back it was Maoists, 2 weeks back it was Khaps, 3 weeks back it was reservations...so on and so forth. And the usual reaction is to identify victims and villains, passed with summary judgments and unbridled pessimism about the country's future.

What's next?
Breaking News: Re falaane ki bhains naat gayi.
Ramphal: Le mere bate, is des ka to naas hogya..

I can understand the thought agony expressed in your post Kapil. I remember your one comment about media that it is same everywhere irrespective of the nation and solely proped on sansanis. More the turn over of sansanis higher the cash benefits. Especially electronic media is a copy paste stuff of foreign media. But the need of the hour is that public like us need to be made aware in these incidents of gargantum injustice. In this yapping of media at least few people become aware about the past deeds of central and state governments, judiciary and executive's roles. This hunger of news brought the faith back in justice in the eyes of public in cases like Jessica Lal, Ruchika etc. Public had come at roads in Jessica Lal case just because of hulla-ballo of media. Sometimes this hulla-ballo is good too.

But yes the bold quoted sentence in your post says all. People react and react like green monkeys.A reaction hardly makes a state fail.

You tell us what should we do when it comes to choosing what to discuss here in this thread as well as others , I assume that you had some alternate in mind when you did write this post.

 

[ssindhu]

Jitender, Justice for Bhopal Gas has been compromised by Union Govt for its nuclear deal aspirations. It is like inviting a bigger disaster as you said at the grave of previous one. US govt doesnt want her citizen to be prosecuted anywhere be it a civilian terrorist like Warren Anderson or a next door Joe. CBI's bulb got fused in this case. Agency didnt find it neccessary to issue a red corner notice for him.




For United States of Pizzas to listen about Warren Andernson , Bhopal gas victims were needed to be Jews. Acc to their last centuary amendment in their constitution they only emphathise with Israel. Though last year they got one idiot who talks about change. Change of what? Probably Michell's frumpy dress someday.

Destiny doesnt know poorer or richer. For destiny everyone is same. But poorer are more of vote banks but No Rahul Ghandis , No Bollywoods , No Criketers , No Arundhati Roys visit Bhopal Gas victims. For them -

हमको सितमगर अज़ीज़ , सितमगर को हम अज़ीज़
ना मेहरबां नहीं है , अगर मेहरबां नहीं

Eight years back one woman had taken an appointment with IG Police at that time in Yamunanagar , Haryana. She had gone to office for registration of FIR against his husband for dowry harrassment but in return got F***** by IG Ahalawat. After eight years , she has managed somehow with the interference of CM to register a case of sexual harrassment against Ahlawat.


Eight years for registeration of a case where a woman's dignity was tarnished. Still Goddess of Law would take another four to five years to reach on some conclusion. In the mean time the abuser will either die or would almost complete his prime years of life alike Rathod. Atleast she didnt commit suicide alike Ruchika. Had it not been the Ruchika's case she would have been molested a few more times.

this is something like monica lewinsky case. such cases are little shaddy. why these women didn't try to raise alarm when it actually happened? some women just take advantage of being women. i know there will be points in defense that they were scared etc. if these ladies were so afraid, after 8 years how do they get guts to report matters like this all of sudden. strange

 

[vicky84]

That's the main point.

Judiciary is doing fine whatever resources are provided to it. It is the fault of our legislature and above all the political unwillingness.

Then what is the solution mate?

 

[hemanthooda]

this is something like monica lewinsky case. such cases are little shaddy. why these women didn't try to raise alarm when it actually happened? some women just take advantage of being women. i know there will be points in defense that they were scared etc. if these ladies were so afraid, after 8 years how do they get guts to report matters like this all of sudden. strange

Tab kisi ne injection nahi diya hooga naa...Abhi lagta hain kisi ne sua laga dia hain....

 

[samarkadian]

Andernson may be 88 years old or 188 years old , it doesn't dilute the crime he committed against the state.

Had Ajmal Kasab been 90 years old , would you guys have been argued to let him die/live as he wish?

Arjun Singh, Rajiv Ghandi, Alexender .

Is Sonia Ghandi going to take the responsiblity of massacre and aftermath of Methyl Isocynate's disaster.?

Is Prince Rahul going to visit victims?

Where are communalists/secularists to stand for particular Hindu , Muslims ,Christian , Sikhs , Jat , Non Jat or Indians killed?

CIA of US has released the reports claiming the role of Rajiv Ghandhi and its Govt.'s role in evicting Andernson.

Pranab Bawlibooch Mukharji stated that Warren Anderson had been let go to protect law n order in MP? Does he know what is talking?

 

[rakeshsehrawat]

Naremder Modi
With the Bhopal gas tragedy revived following the verdict last week, Modi said: “There are reports about how the then Congress governments helped Warren Anderson, (the chairman of Union Carbide, at whose factory the gas leak occurred) escape... Why is Soniaji silent on the issue?”
Sonia Said Gujrat as state of barbarics on roits in 2007

नई दिल्ली. सेना की उत्तरी कमान के कमांडर लेफ्टिनेंट जनरल बीएस जसवाल ने कहा है कि पाकिस्तान की ओर से आतंकियों को देश में धकेलने में कोई कमी नहीं आई है। 600 से 800 आतंकी इस समय घुसपैठ की फिराक में हैं। हालांकि उन्होंने कहा कि सेना की रणनीति के कारण घुसपैठियों को कामयाबी नहीं मिल पा रही है।


एक टीवी चैनल से बातचीत में जसवाल ने कहा कि इस साल के आंकड़े देखें तो घुसपैठियों को नाकामी हासिल हुई है। पिछले साल इस समय तक 70 आतंकियों ने घुसपैठ की थी लेकिन इस साल 12 आतंकी ही सीमापार कर आ पाए हैं।


अधिकारी ने बताया कि घुसपैठ रोकने के लिए सेना की तीन स्तरीय रणनीति है। इसमें घुसपैठ रोकने के लिए मजबूत रक्षा पंक्ति के साथ ही खुफिया सूचना तंत्र पर खास जोर दिया गया है।
Mubarak baad do 7 ne mumbai fook di abhi bas 12 aaye hain

 

[vijay]

Then what is the solution mate?

• Political willingness to arrest and as well as punish these guys apart from making certain amendments in legislature.
• Political willpower to send a sound and loud message to the terrorists by hanging criminals like Ajmal Guru.
• Honest and practical Political and diplomatic strategies to bring back the criminals from other countries.

Politics is penetrating through all the spheres and spoiling India like anything.

 

[kapdal]

I can understand the thought agony expressed in your post Kapil. I remember your one comment about media that it is same everywhere irrespective of the nation and solely proped on sansanis. More the turn over of sansanis higher the cash benefits. Especially electronic media is a copy paste stuff of foreign media. But the need of the hour is that public like us need to be made aware in these incidents of gargantum injustice. In this yapping of media at least few people become aware about the past deeds of central and state governments, judiciary and executive's roles. This hunger of news brought the faith back in justice in the eyes of public in cases like Jessica Lal, Ruchika etc. Public had come at roads in Jessica Lal case just because of hulla-ballo of media. Sometimes this hulla-ballo is good too.

But yes the bold quoted sentence in your post says all. People react and react like green monkeys.A reaction hardly makes a state fail.

You tell us what should we do when it comes to choosing what to discuss here in this thread as well as others , I assume that you had some alternate in mind when you did write this post.

Samar, I didn't have anything alternate in mind. I am no one to "prescribe" anyone on how to discuss anything. I just found it silly how people take to any issue with full passion as soon as media starts talking about it. It was all the more apparent in this case as the case has been there all this while and known to all informed people. The info. related to it was publicly and easily available even earlier. But a positive development (case coming to an end) colored by the media with negative connotations results in passionate outbursts from one and all.

I wonder if I do the same in general and thought about it only this issue. In any case, I'd watch my on behavior with respect to my reaction atleast for some time to come. Incidentally, I am also reading a bit of Chomsky and his interesting theories on how media is a propaganda tool that decides on what gets discussed rather than what needs to be discussed.

 

[arvindc]

I agree with the above theory by Chomsky. At least, I can see this happening in India. The politicians and media seem to have formed a nexus for their own vested interests.

However, I also agree with what this journalist has said.

"I reported my first story in September 1982. In October that year I ran a series and wrote weekly reports against Union Carbide and the possibility of risk to human lives due to the chemicals in the plant.

People treated me like a crazy man. They used to tell me, 'Arre aisa kabhi hota hai kya? Aisa kabhi hua hai kya is duniya mein?' "

It’s not easy to bring up social issues without media help. People have tendency to ignore this and label such steps as an attempt to get media attention for person gratification. This can be seen in the case of the Naxal issue as well. You yourself have seen the remarks against Arundhati Roy.

Ironically, the timing of these events (it's 4 years for next lok sabha elections) are such that people will forget most of the incidents and their views would be colored with the lollypops that are given just before the elections.

However even now, it is time to take actions. The government could be pressurized to amend the legislation and take a second look at the nuclear bill. People can still keep these issues live until next elections. However, who has that much of time and energy, a common person has lots of other problems to look at, and social activists often do not have the resources to counter the lollypops.

 

[hemanthooda]

Samar Do you think this UPA govt has political will to bring anderson to India???According to me it is a Big "NO"

Aur jin logo ko already fasi ki saza de rakhi hain SC ne & jinke mercy petition pending pade hain unko toh execute kar de ya govt..... these monsters are fully secured in Indian jails with your & mine money i.e. Taxpayers Money.....

I am not against Hanging Anderson whether he is 18 or 88!!!!

Andernson may be 88 years old or 188 years old , it doesn't dilute the crime he committed against the state.

Had Ajmal Kasab been 90 years old , would you guys have been argued to let him die/live as he wish?

Arjun Singh, Rajiv Ghandi, Alexender .

Is Sonia Ghandi going to take the responsiblity of massacre and aftermath of Methyl Isocynate's disaster.?

Is Prince Rahul going to visit victims?

Where are communalists/secularists to stand for particular Hindu , Muslims ,Christian , Sikhs , Jat , Non Jat or Indians killed?

CIA of US has released the reports claiming the role of Rajiv Ghandhi and its Govt.'s role in evicting Andernson.

Pranab Bawlibooch Mukharji stated that Warren Anderson had been let go to protect law n order in MP? Does he know what is talking?

 

[rkumar]

US$ 20 biliions for Gulf of Mexico oil spil and US$ 300 millions for Bhopal victims....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/us_and_canada/10335114.stm

It seems the worth of one India life is not even worth of a turtle or fish.. So shameful.

RK^2

 

[vijay123]

Wapas lana hota to bhejte kyun? Usko to state govt ke plane mei lekar gaye they delhi wapis. Woh koi chori se chup ke yaa bhag ke nahi gaya tha. Itni badi ghatna agar desh mei hoti hai to PM or CM dono ko ek ek choti baat ki jaankari rehti hai, aise mei responsible company ka CEO wapis chala jaye bina PM ki permission ke, that is not possible. The fault lies with those who let him go or rather facilitated his leaving the country. Rather than running after Anderson, people should run after Arjun Singh now. Waise bhi America itna bewkoof nahi hai ki apne citizen to India wapis bhej dega trial ke liye. India ki agar itni chalti to Dawood abhi tak pakad liya jaata ya maar diya jaata. These politicians know that in few weeks everyone will forget about bhopal tragedy and it will be business as usual. Tab tak koi or ghatna ho jayegi or media us par lag jayegi. Yahan jatland par bhi iss thread par phir dhool jam jayegi.

Samar Do you think this UPA govt has political will to bring anderson to India???According to me it is a Big "NO"

Aur jin logo ko already fasi ki saza de rakhi hain SC ne & jinke mercy petition pending pade hain unko toh execute kar de ya govt..... these monsters are fully secured in Indian jails with your & mine money i.e. Taxpayers Money.....

I am not against Hanging Anderson whether he is 18 or 88!!!!