Denial of visa to Modi 'insult' to nation: BJP

[drrajpoonia]

drrajpoonia

i think usa deny visa for modi.absolutely unfair
this is not right b/c there is no case against him.
no criminal record.
base of deny...human rights commission...who they are??
all memebers are sponsered by america,group of american bastereds.
even america does`t have good history in terms of human rights.
then how can they judge the case of modi.
before denying visa they should have looked inside themself.

 

[nvedwan]

Looks like Modi losing it!

All this stress, it seems is causing Modi to display very strange symptoms, and utter absolute inanities. What the hell is he babbling about, below: Comparing himself to Gandhi and that US is feeling threatened by the rising power of Gujarat!


Modi invokes Mahatma to warn America

TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ SUNDAY, MARCH 20, 2005 11:27:32 PM ]

AHMEDABAD: In a stinging attack on the US on Sunday, Gujarat CM Narendra Modi claimed that the Bush administration revoked his visa because it was perturbed about economic reasons like the fact that the "oil pipeline from Iran would pass through Gujarat" and because he had signed an MoU with gas-rich Astrakhan, a part of the erstwhile USSR. He said that the US was afraid all this would lead to Gujarat, and in turn India, becoming an economic power.

Comparing himself to the Mahatma, Modi, in a thinly disguised attempt warned the US government by saying: "A man from Gujarat was thrown out of a train in South Africa. This led to a movement that overthrew the British empire. Modi added, let us pledge to work for such a day that an American would have to stand in line for entry into Gujarat.

Modi's statement caused consternation in Ahmedabad, with analysts pointing out that five lakh Gujaratis lived and did business in the US. "The US is the mecca for a lot of Gujaratis. Baiting the US is not a good idea at all," said a top state industrialist. He wondered what PM Manmohan Singh would have to say to all this.

Casting aspersions on the Bush administration, Modi said that the US' intelligence gathering skills were rather poor. "The WTC attack was a glaring example. The country was caught napping. The US is weilding the stick on selective information gathered by its network. It seems the same yardstick has been applied in my case," said Modi.

 

[rkumar]

I don't agree with your view. When a country like North Korea can stand up to the US, so can India. Also, 'US being ideological in its international conduct' is a farce. It has different set of rules for treating different nations.
I think if Modi is a fanatic, so is Bush. Even Bush used religion to win the recent elections.

1. If Modi has any self respect left, he should take a public oath of never visiting USA and so should be case with all his so called supporters. Let me see how many of them come forward.....

2. Standing against USA is not an issue. India has always been standing against US policies at all the world forums. Question is, should India stand for a person like Modi ? In my view NO..Why should India become fodder for the misdeeds of people like Modi..

RK^2

 

[mbamal]

1. If Modi has any self respect left, he should take a public oath of never visiting USA and so should be case with all his so called supporters. Let me see how many of them come forward.....

2. Standing against USA is not an issue. India has always been standing against US policies at all the world forums. Question is, should India stand for a person like Modi ? In my view NO..Why should India become fodder for the misdeeds of people like Modi..

RK^2

Totally Agree with you Rajendra Jee,

I was amazed that Indian government officially asked US to reconsider its decision.

 

[shailendra]

Beaming Modi via satellite...

....Apparently he is speaking at these symposiums here in the USA via satellite (televised) He already did one in NY... also thankfully, the guy is keeping away from his regular rhetoric in those speaking sessions for now…

 

[kuldeepsingh]

Many preys with one arrow

Many preys with one arrow

America has not allowed visa to Modi. It is a very calculated move of America.

On one side America want to win the goodwill of muslim countries as Modi is Katter anti muslim( His speeches are sufficiet testimony).
On the other side America want to create an atmosphere where Hindu Rastarwad or pseudo nationalism become a weapon in the hands of BJP and Modi to exploit the sentiments of Indians and regain their lost ground.
Ofcourse visa should not have been denied but in that case America could not have played its game.
On top of all this, BJP Govt had bowed down to every dictate of America when they were in power. Honourable Vajpayee ji had bend his both knees before America.
Where had the nation’s pride gone? Why BJP at that time never thought of the sovereignity of the country which was being mortgaged to America?
The emotions will be exploited. America actually wants this that is why no to visa. We should be careful enough in responding to this complex issue.

Kuldeep Singh

 

[rkumar]

Back to the present discussion:
What is amazing about the whole scenario is that now apparently Modi (encouraged now with the somewhat stern reaction of the Indian Govt) is comparing himself against US as the kind of threat Gandhi posed to the British! Go figure!!! that guy does not know when to stay quiet and ride with dignity (like some girlie-men I know here on Jatland! )... To think that the US are threatened by the surgence of Gujarat as a powerhouse state, or him as the powerhouse Chief minister is too far fetched to be edible!...

Joke of the day is that BJP walas are again taking shelter under the image of Gandhi ji...Look at the jokers..they seem to have lost all shame...My Suggestion to Gujju Modi would be to claim the money from US Embassy which he paid for his B1/B2 VISA...hahahaha...That will be the really Gujju Modi... He should file a case in the consumer court against US Embassy and claim refund and compenstation for the poor customer services... That will be a real historic court case. Since USA charged him money for 10 years VISA, Modi has a strong case....who knows he might win....hahahah

RK^2

 

[nvedwan]

Good suggestion!

He should file a case in the consumer court against US Embassy and claim refund and compenstation for the poor customer services... That will be a real historic court case. Since USA charged him money for 10 years VISA, Modi has a strong case....who knows he might win....hahahah

RK^2[/QUOTE]

LOL!!

If Modi wins in the consumer court, he can then proclaim victory over the US, victory of injustice over justice, and join the ranks of other Hindutva greats (if he is not already there). Wonderful suggestion! A good victory, it will be, albeit a symbolic one, but then what other kind of victory do these clowns know of?

 

[rohittewatia]

If it were not for modi, it would have been some other. Whatever happened was inevitable. This was just what a rogue state Pakistan wanted to do. These incidents might not not be minor, however they would take place atleast once in a decade. You can see the history of India after independence. We had these 1984, Babri Masjid and Godhara and
maybe more to come in the near future.

We were not a secular country before and not even now also. And these were not the native inhabitants. Still, they have a place to live and live like a free man unless they themselves don't create any tensions. It would have been the same to us, if it would have been a muslim dominated country and hindus would have started some conflict. All we can do(i count on myself only) is not to create religious tensions. Besides, it would still take a long long time when we can and they can mix up.

"Jiski Lathi usaki Bhens". US kissi mantri koh visa dey aur chahe nah dey. Aap aur maiin milke kyaah ukhad lenge. Joh bhi bol raaha hai kih it is a insult to nation, so if somebody's visa gets rejected, so it is a insult...Then why do u go to them to have the visa on the first hand.

US can have some fun while sitting at a distance. Whatever be the reason, US knows it better than most of us of maybe any of us. All they did was rejecting a visa application and it created an uproar in India.

"Abhihto sirf visa application reject karri hai, usaka kyaah jis key Kapde bhi Utaarwa liyeh".

Shanti barkaraar rankhein aur aap bhi apana kaam karien aur auron kóbhi karne dein. Comments invited.

Thnk u.

 

[anurana]

Alright guys, The thread has been edited.
Enough action for one thread.... now its time to pack up...remember to take the popcorn bags, coke cans, beer bottles with you.

Please take all personal matters offline, let us stick to the discussion here.

If you have any issues with the moderation please send a PM

Thanks

- Anu

 

[raj_rathee]

Alright guys, The thread has been edited.
Enough action for one thread.... now its time to pack up...remember to take the popcorn bags, coke cans, beer bottles with you.

Please take all personal matters offline, let us stick to the discussion here.

If you have any issues with the moderation please send a PM

Thanks

- Anu

Ha ha ha ha !
In one swift move, Anu the ruthless terminator, deftly chops down both
"Miami-Ka-Goonda-Hooda" and "Belgium-Da-Badmash-Bamal", and we hear
not one little whine or purr from either the gladiators !

Darn ! Now that spic 'n' span plasma monitor is beginning to look lika a worthless
piece of trash !

And the modi debate seems to have whimpered away too ! Such is the
fear and awe inspired by our ruthless lady, Anu the terminator.

 

[shailendra]

...At ease!

Ha ha ha ha !
In one swift move, Anu the ruthless terminator, deftly chops down both
"Miami-Ka-Goonda-Hooda" and "Belgium-Da-Badmash-Bamal", and we hear
not one little whine or purr from either the gladiators !

Darn ! Now that spic 'n' span plasma monitor is beginning to look lika a worthless
piece of trash !

And the modi debate seems to have whimpered away too ! Such is the
fear and awe inspired by our ruthless lady, Anu the terminator.

...Yup, all I could whisper was "Yes Maam!"
(although I could be mistaken but I think I did spot her reluctantly putting away her own bag of popcorns too! LOL... )

 

[virmaramjyani]

modi ko visa na dekar america ne dikha diya ki vishwa jagat ka thnedar wohi hai. bharat ke naram rukh ne sabit kar diya ki surender aur har manana to hamen nehru ke jamane se hamari aadat hai.

 

[shailendra]

...Modi's Chief-Minister ship!!!

...Modi apparently called off his UK visit too (possibly a very diplomatic idea)

On changing the direction a bit, but on the same issue literally…I do have a query to all of the participants in the serious discussion here (the silly joker can keep his thoughts to himself); Why do you think that with all the apparent undercurrent of allegations and counter-allegations against him surrounding the Gujarat Riots, did he win the Chief Minister ship again and with a popular mandate? Is that a reflection of his strong-arm tactics in the face of a lot of political flak and being able to rig an election or is it simply a popular mandate that reflects what the majority in that region and state were leaning against even if it was a mob mentality?

 

[nvedwan]

...Modi apparently called off his UK visit too (possibly a very diplomatic idea)

On changing the direction a bit, but on the same issue literally…I do have a query to all of the participants in the serious discussion here (the silly joker can keep his thoughts to himself); Why do you think that with all the apparent undercurrent of allegations and counter-allegations against him surrounding the Gujarat Riots, did he win the Chief Minister ship again and with a popular mandate? Is that a reflection of his strong-arm tactics in the face of a lot of political flak and being able to rig an election or is it simply a popular mandate that reflects what the majority in that region and state were leaning against even if it was a mob mentality?

Hi, Shailendra:
This is really an interesting topic that you have broached. Modi won the elections because he was able to polarize the electorate along religious lines--Hindu vs Muslim. If you look at the whole ideology of Hindutva, it is predicated on the attempt to subsume the differences of caste, region, etc under the grand divisions of religion(the assumption being that religious differences are more "basic" and "natural" than these other differences. Right wing movements elsewhere have also used race for the same purpose). Basically, right-wing ideologues figured that they could never have an electoral majority if they cannot get people to ignore their "divisions", if only temporarily (during election time, that is), for the sake of religious identities. The next step is to link the minority community to a foreign power and accuse it of treason. This two-pronged strategy is the essence of Hindutva. Historically, this is based, in part, on the distinction that Savarakar drew between Punyabhoomi and Pitrabhoomi (drawn straight from the Nazi ideology). The real Indians (read Hindus) are those for whom India is both their Punyabhoomi and Pitrabhoomi. Muslims and Chritstians are ruled out by definition because their Punyabhoomi ("holy land") is in the Middle East.

But, why does this work, or more precisely, work at times? A simple, although unfortunate, fact is that it is easy to get people mobilized on the basis of emotions such as fear, anger, honor, and insult than issues that require careful analysis. This basic insight into human nature, is often the basis for a lot of right wing politics across the world. In Gujarat, this polarization between Muslims and Hindus was not acheived overnight, but over the last half century (btw, there is an extensive literature on this issue). It was accomplished using a variety of strategies--using a number of cultural front organizations on a range of issues(Sangh Parivar). For instance, Gujarat in the 1960s was at the forefront of an all India campaign to ban cow slaughter. The point I am making is that these networks, which could be religious and cultural in nature, once formed, were easy to mobilize once an issue presented itself (Godhra). Of course, the genocide of Muslims would still have been difficult to pull off, if it was not for Modi being in power.

In a nutshell, the polarization along religious lines is the key to understanding the electoral successes of Modi, and which will not likely dissolve itself. An indicator of the Sangh Parivar's succes on this count is that for the first time ever, the tribal population of Gujarat participated enthusiastically in the anti-Muslim riots (this was new as during the earlier riots, it was mostly the lower-middle and middle classes, which were involved. It is a kind of outsourcing of riots: basically, we will make dollars in the US, and you tribals, please, riot on our behalf). The success of Sangh Parivar in forming these stable coalitions across the tribal, non-tribal and caste lines is what has made them label Gujarat the "Laboratory for Hindutva". It is precisely given this situation, that the external stimuli (ie the US interference) is so positive, because it has breached the facade of unity which was achieved among the Gujarat Hindu ranks. Why has this been somewhat successful? Because a lot of these suporters also have economic interests in the US, so they are not likely to support Modi beyond a point, that is at a significant cost to themselves. That is why this visa incident has opened up a rift, if not cemented it, within the the BJP ranks. One indicator of this is the fact that the BJP dissidents in Gujarat did not even bother to attend the pro-Modi rally that was organized and attended by Advani, under the cover of protecting "national honor." So, everything is not lost. Why? Because people also basically have multiple identities and heterogenous interests and these are almost never in harmony with each other. Forces opposed to Modi have to exploit this fact and make it clear to the pro-Modi elements that there will be a price, a significant price, to pay fro support to his politics of hate.

 

[shailendra]

...Interesting, but how factual?

Hi, Shailendra:
This is really an interesting topic that you have broached.
Basically, right-wing ideologues figured that they could never have an electoral majority if they cannot get people to ignore their "divisions", if only temporarily (during election time, that is), for the sake of religious identities. The next step is to link the minority community to a foreign power and accuse it of treason. This two-pronged strategy is the essence of Hindutva.

In Gujarat, this polarization between Muslims and Hindus was not acheived overnight, but over the last half century (btw, there is an extensive literature on this issue). The point I am making is that these networks, which could be religious and cultural in nature, once formed, were easy to mobilize once an issue presented itself (Godhra massacre). Of course, the genocide of Muslims would still have been difficult to pull off, if it was not for Modi being in power.

In a nutshell, the polarization along religious lines is the key to understanding the electoral successes of Modi, which will not likely dissolve itself. That is why this visa incident has opened up a rift, if not cemented it, within the the BJP ranks.

Forces opposed to Modi have to exploit this fact and make it clear to the pro-Modi elements that there will be a price, a significant price, to pay fro support to his politics of hate.

...Very interesting point of view.
...But having said that; I politely disagree- Why? because it is hard to believe that a century of ideology (Sangh parivar and Hindutava like you say) will help Mod ride a wave of popularity and power in the following elections simply because he supposedly stood around and did not lift a finger when the mob mentality took over his state.
Having lived in Gujarat for some years myself one needs to experience the ground reality to be able to put things like this in perspective. If for any reasons anyone involved in this discussion here is under the delusion that the Muslims there in Gujarat are just a push over minority then they are hugely mistaken… Gujarat probably boasts of the largest Muslim vote bank in the Nation! Compare that number and ratio when you easily mention ‘Muslim genocide’ as it only brings a one sided bleak picture to the mind of a minority being hacked down with no retaliation whatsoever, a state where something like the Godhra incident where hundreds gathered up in minutes to burn a train full of Kar-sevaks is just an ‘isolated incident’ of the Muslim groupism….or on a more serious note; when you mention about a Hindutva wave riding and presiding over any other politics or over anything else there in the state elections! Sure the ratio is no where near 50-50 to be able to swing it one way or the other………… but my reasoning behind playing the devil’s advocate here is that do not simply brush away the always simmering under the surface ideological differences and years of mis-match that Hindus and Muslims have gone thru specially in that state, (Bombay in Maharashtra is a close cousin) with none really coming up trumps ever except for this almost infamous re-election of Modi immediately after something huge like the riots that had devastated the whole state (and the nation)! Don’t forget to count all those leaders who had fearfully (including his own Party) distanced themselves from the controversy surrounding the whole incident and clambered to get in the good books of the minorities again!

When you go deep into the drivel about ‘Sangh Parivar’ and the ‘Hindutva’ ideologies, it is a must to brush up on the ‘Muslim Madarsas’ ideology too that peters down to even the Muslim dominated villages in the State. And if really that Hindu ideology would have been such a National syndrome, I wonder why BJP was thrown out as the ruling party?, I wonder why the Godhra incident that started off sparking more of a nation-wide Hindu-Muslim divide, finally restrict the repercussions only in the Gujarat state? I wonder why when everyone disassociated themselves from the whole terrible incident, and the Godhra card was not so literally splashed on the election posters itself did the popular mandate still put it’s wishes down with so much clarity and seriousness!

 

[nvedwan]

About the nature of politics [in India]

The point I was trying to make is very simple: at any given point in time there exist interests--at individual and group level which are diverse and often contradictory (even individuals harbor internal contradictions). Ideologies serve the purpose of rationalizing these interests, and glossing over differences, and providing motivation for affiliation and action. Coalition of interests are formed around convergence, but are often unstable because of their internal contradictions (e.g commercial interests can whole-heartedly support BJP in the context of tax reduction, etc, but oppose it when its economic interests are hurt in another way). India, because of its diversity, contains multitudes of differences, that's the reason it is so difficult for one ideology to capture the imagination of everyone, for all the time. Also, there are different levels of factors at play--local, regional, national and international--and all of them effect each other. That's why it is so difficult to draw conclusions from electoral outcomes--whether they are outcomes of local factors or these (inter)national issues--basically because people who vote are trying to reconcile the different and contradictory interests they have. Of course, it is not supposed to be a free for all as the overarching framework for the contest of interests and ideologies is supposed to be provided by the Constitution, which guarantees certain rights, etc to individuals and groups.

 

[shailendra]

...Thanks!

The point I was trying to make is very simple: at any given point in time there exist interests--at individual and group level which are diverse and often contradictory (even individuals harbor internal contradictions). Ideologies serve the purpose of rationalizing these interests, and glossing over differences, and providing motivation for affiliation and action. Coalition of interests are formed around convergence, but are often unstable because of their internal contradictions (e.g commercial interests can whole-heartedly support BJP in the context of tax reduction, etc, but oppose it when its economic interests are hurt in another way). India, because of its diversity, contains multitudes of differences, that's the reason it is so difficult for one ideology to capture the imagination of everyone, for all the time. Also, there are different levels of factors at play--local, regional, national and international--and all of them effect each other. That's why it is so difficult to draw conclusions from electoral outcomes--whether they are outcomes of local factors or these (inter)national issues--basically because people who vote are trying to reconcile the different and contradictory interests they have. Of course, it is not supposed to be a free for all as the overarching framework for the contest of interests and ideologies is supposed to be provided by the Constitution, which guarantees certain rights, etc to individuals and groups.

I think I like your formal-informal way of putting the point across Neeraj...and to some extent even agree with some of the reasoning. Anyways, thanks for highlighting the various issues to my query. Keep contributing to the discussion....

 

[ranaalpana]

shame

Hi all,
what do you guys think about this? whatever be the points against modi, this action is surely against our pride.




Denial of visa to Modi 'insult' to nation: BJP

http://in.rediff.com/news/2005/mar/18modi1.htm


The Bharatiya Janata Party on Friday slammed the United States for not allowing its chief minister in Gujarat Narendra Modi to enter the country.

The BJP said the action was 'unwarranted' and had caused 'insult' to the entire nation.

Modi has been denied diplomatic visa and his tourist/business visa already granted has also been revoked as per the US Immigration and Nationality Act. The Act prohibits 'any government official who was responsible for, or directly carried out, at any time, particularly severe violations of religious freedom' from travelling to that country.

"We do not need lessons in religious freedom from anyone in the world, including the US," Bharatiya Janata Party Vice-President and party spokesman Mukhtar Abbas Naqvi said.

* Narendra Modi denied visa to visit US

He said the denial of visa to the elected head of a state government was an 'insult to the entire nation'.

The whole world knows about India's democracy and its pluralistic culture, he told rediff.com.

Another BJP leader said if religious intolerance was the criteria, the US should ban the entry of Chinese leaders.

The issue is likely to snowball into a political controversy, with Naqvi saying the government should disclose if it knew such a step was going to be taken.

"The BJP condemns it. The government should lodge an official complaint with the Americans," he said.

Senior BJP leader and former external affairs minister Yashwant Sinha said the Government of India should protest against the US decision.

"The government should tell them that if the US government gives this kind of treatment to our ministers and Constitution heads of states like Modi, then we would give similar treatment to their leaders," he said.

"Granting visa is the sovereign right of any state, but the manner in which it was done and the reasons given (for denying the visas to Modi) are unacceptable," Sinha said. He said the central government should take up this issue 'strongly' with the US embassy and the government.

* The Gujarat riots: Complete coverage

"Modi was going to the US on an invitation from the Gujarati community. The US administration has come to the conclusion without checking facts with the Gujarat government," he said.

BJP leader Venkaiah Naidu expressed surprise that the 'world's biggest democracy and champion of human rights' acted in the manner it did.

Party leader Vijay Kumar Malhotra said the BJP will meet shortly to chalk out its response to the latest developments. The party is also contemplating to meet Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, he said.

With PTI inputs

It was a big insult

 

[ranaalpana]

Interesting

Hi, Shailendra:
This is really an interesting topic that you have broached. Modi won the elections because he was able to polarize the electorate along religious lines--Hindu vs Muslim. If you look at the whole ideology of Hindutva, it is predicated on the attempt to subsume the differences of caste, region, etc under the grand divisions of religion(the assumption being that religious differences are more "basic" and "natural" than these other differences. Right wing movements elsewhere have also used race for the same purpose). Basically, right-wing ideologues figured that they could never have an electoral majority if they cannot get people to ignore their "divisions", if only temporarily (during election time, that is), for the sake of religious identities. The next step is to link the minority community to a foreign power and accuse it of treason. This two-pronged strategy is the essence of Hindutva. Historically, this is based, in part, on the distinction that Savarakar drew between Punyabhoomi and Pitrabhoomi (drawn straight from the Nazi ideology). The real Indians (read Hindus) are those for whom India is both their Punyabhoomi and Pitrabhoomi. Muslims and Chritstians are ruled out by definition because their Punyabhoomi ("holy land") is in the Middle East.

But, why does this work, or more precisely, work at times? A simple, although unfortunate, fact is that it is easy to get people mobilized on the basis of emotions such as fear, anger, honor, and insult than issues that require careful analysis. This basic insight into human nature, is often the basis for a lot of right wing politics across the world. In Gujarat, this polarization between Muslims and Hindus was not acheived overnight, but over the last half century (btw, there is an extensive literature on this issue). It was accomplished using a variety of strategies--using a number of cultural front organizations on a range of issues(Sangh Parivar). For instance, Gujarat in the 1960s was at the forefront of an all India campaign to ban cow slaughter. The point I am making is that these networks, which could be religious and cultural in nature, once formed, were easy to mobilize once an issue presented itself (Godhra). Of course, the genocide of Muslims would still have been difficult to pull off, if it was not for Modi being in power.

In a nutshell, the polarization along religious lines is the key to understanding the electoral successes of Modi, and which will not likely dissolve itself. An indicator of the Sangh Parivar's succes on this count is that for the first time ever, the tribal population of Gujarat participated enthusiastically in the anti-Muslim riots (this was new as during the earlier riots, it was mostly the lower-middle and middle classes, which were involved. It is a kind of outsourcing of riots: basically, we will make dollars in the US, and you tribals, please, riot on our behalf). The success of Sangh Parivar in forming these stable coalitions across the tribal, non-tribal and caste lines is what has made them label Gujarat the "Laboratory for Hindutva". It is precisely given this situation, that the external stimuli (ie the US interference) is so positive, because it has breached the facade of unity which was achieved among the Gujarat Hindu ranks. Why has this been somewhat successful? Because a lot of these suporters also have economic interests in the US, so they are not likely to support Modi beyond a point, that is at a significant cost to themselves. That is why this visa incident has opened up a rift, if not cemented it, within the the BJP ranks. One indicator of this is the fact that the BJP dissidents in Gujarat did not even bother to attend the pro-Modi rally that was organized and attended by Advani, under the cover of protecting "national honor." So, everything is not lost. Why? Because people also basically have multiple identities and heterogenous interests and these are almost never in harmony with each other. Forces opposed to Modi have to exploit this fact and make it clear to the pro-Modi elements that there will be a price, a significant price, to pay fro support to his politics of hate.

This is interesting.