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Died for/with green card!
- Thread starter anujkumar
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He already had a green card. I believe he joined up for college money (GI bill). Some of the benefits that US Army are quite tantalizing, and they pay another $10,000 or such bonus to join up for a combat unit. The 20 year retirement thing is also quite attractive
The downside is quite obvious.
I am a US army Vet and I feel empathy for Uday. Perhaps he would have been better off if he had joined in a support unit. He joined before September 11 . He could well have been in the twin towers. I guess..when its your time, its your time.
The downside is quite obvious.
I am a US army Vet and I feel empathy for Uday. Perhaps he would have been better off if he had joined in a support unit. He joined before September 11 . He could well have been in the twin towers. I guess..when its your time, its your time.
drnchaudhry
New member
Its just a picture of our selfesteem and regard for the fellow citizen in general.anil chaudhary (Dec 12, 2003 12:35 a.m.):
if the dead is an Indian desi, he is just an statistics
if he is an american desi, he is news.
S
sansanwalamit
Guest
It beats me to hear somebody born and raised in India, still an Indian, with family in India and working for the US army, working for the Queen's army still makes a bit of sense but US army, it sure does beats me.
I never imgained that such people existed, it is sad when someone looses life, but I am not touched by or ampathised to anyone, seems like a man died due to his monetary ambitions while fighting for a greedy country's monetary ambitions, so it is all about money.
may God bless his soul and of those other lost soldiers in the war, but I also pray that such money minded people may not be born on Indian soil again.
I never imgained that such people existed, it is sad when someone looses life, but I am not touched by or ampathised to anyone, seems like a man died due to his monetary ambitions while fighting for a greedy country's monetary ambitions, so it is all about money.
may God bless his soul and of those other lost soldiers in the war, but I also pray that such money minded people may not be born on Indian soil again.
He was just trying to make a better life for himself by getting college money. A good college is quite expensive (even in india). There was an interview with his uncle, where the uncle mentioned that he had done quite a few odd jobs (without a future) before deciding to join the US Army in order for college money. I suspect most Indians would have done what he had done.
A common ambition for most people is to better their lot and for families. Some people with a sense of adventure leave shores to do it. Then there are others who criticize people who try and fail without having walked in their shoes. In my experience its mostly a validation for their own dull life.
Joining the 'Queen's army' for a patriotic reason is a laughable concept. I believe that currently there is a big shortage of officers in the Indian army. The reason is that the monetary compensation does not equate to risks involved. Nationalistic feelings have dropped in current generations as compared to the generation born before independence...an effect of globalization I suppose. Gurkhas have long served in British and Indian Army. The reason is trying to make a better life for themselves rather than protecting the Queen's right to burp in regality.
Did Uday give his life away for nationalistic reason's. The obvious answer is no. Did he give it in an effort to better life for his family...yes, and that's a personal tragedy and a commendable cause.
A common ambition for most people is to better their lot and for families. Some people with a sense of adventure leave shores to do it. Then there are others who criticize people who try and fail without having walked in their shoes. In my experience its mostly a validation for their own dull life.
Joining the 'Queen's army' for a patriotic reason is a laughable concept. I believe that currently there is a big shortage of officers in the Indian army. The reason is that the monetary compensation does not equate to risks involved. Nationalistic feelings have dropped in current generations as compared to the generation born before independence...an effect of globalization I suppose. Gurkhas have long served in British and Indian Army. The reason is trying to make a better life for themselves rather than protecting the Queen's right to burp in regality.
Did Uday give his life away for nationalistic reason's. The obvious answer is no. Did he give it in an effort to better life for his family...yes, and that's a personal tragedy and a commendable cause.
I still criticize the publicity afforded to Uday over other soldiers that die daily on the borders. It boils down to what makes a better story. Its neither fair or right. But the world is not fair, and it seems noteriety gets a lot more publicity than a simple good deed. but if you are doing a good deed for the sake of publicity...is it a good deed or an instrument to self gratification.
Anuj Kumar (Dec 11, 2003 01:30 p.m.):
http://www.bbc.co.uk/hindi/regionalnews/story/2003/12/031211_iraq_india.shtml
Did he really die for a Green card or because he wanted to follow the Proud Family tradition..??? He died very young but with such Honor. Hats off to u- Uday! U were loyal to your adopted country..which some of us cant say (I am 100% Indian at heart- even after 21 years in the USA).
MAy you be always remembered with Pride. MAy God give the Family courage for such a GREAT Scarifice-Thank You!
Dear Members,
I meant, died to honor of green card, which didn't entitle an American Hero title. Even the first casualty that US forces suffered was not an American citizen, (I think they give green card if you are "selected"), American Citizenship was his dream, so they awarded him posthumously. I found it a bit ironic.
Nonetheless, He must have been a brave and courageous man.
I meant, died to honor of green card, which didn't entitle an American Hero title. Even the first casualty that US forces suffered was not an American citizen, (I think they give green card if you are "selected"), American Citizenship was his dream, so they awarded him posthumously. I found it a bit ironic.
Nonetheless, He must have been a brave and courageous man.
Meena Singh (Dec 13, 2003 06:53 p.m.):
Anuj Kumar (Dec 11, 2003 01:30 p.m.):
http://www.bbc.co.uk/hindi/regionalnews/story/2003/12/031211_iraq_india.shtml
Did he really die for a Green card or because he wanted to follow the Proud Family tradition..??? He died very young but with such Honor. Hats off to u- Uday! U were loyal to your adopted country..which some of us cant say (I am 100% Indian at heart- even after 21 years in the USA).
MAy you be always remembered with Pride. MAy God give the Family courage for such a GREAT Scarifice-Thank You!
colonel_hada
New member
maybe he felt he had to prove himself. he was an army officers only son and we army people r proud of him he died for a good cause maybe for green card or maybe for ideals he believed in
what matters is how u sacrifice/ die.Respect that too self respect n pride is of utmost important for a person to live and earn . Uday did his work with gr8 pride n we must be proud of it . Money is some what temp n we all work in some manner to earn ,how does it make difference ??? gr8 job sir
S
shokeen123
Guest
A martyr is a martyr is a martyr! I believe for whatever reasons (personal, educational, or patriotic) Uday gave his life, was a commendable one! I would have bowed my head in respect to any Indian that sacrificed his life for the sake of the country, regardless of his regional ties. Uday has made us all Indians proud by giving his life. It is ironic that when an astronaut gets killed in a space disaster the favorite Indian daughter suddenly puts India on the international map, but when an ordinary Indian son gives his life it is debated whether he died for a “green card or citizenship!” Talk about double standards…. one need not go any further. What is wrong with you people? Be thankful that Uday wasn’t one of your dear ones, and yet you somehow became beneficiary to his legacy as an Indian! Imagine putting your child in harm’s way and people cribbing and debating about your son’s sacrifice? I have known of Indian youth getting married to American women just to get the US citizenship. And known of the Indian fathers who send their kids to study at the Ivy League universities abroad because they have unaccountable amount of wealth (this doesn’t specifically apply to any one here). What’s wrong with being a soldier in the US army and paying your own education through proud and honest means? That’s much more honorable thing to do than to spend your father’s stashed funds, or marry a “Gori” to stay abroad?
Colonel Preet Mohinder is a decorated Indian army officer. What else did you expect from the guy? He did only what he knew best, to teach his son the only way to be self-sufficient and be proud on his merits through honest means, that’s more than can be said of some Indian fathers! (Discussion on corruption, anyone?) And is it than any wonder that you find many of those idle rowdies especially from our areas driving drunk in marutis or playing cards on the neighborhood joints?
I am not trying to lessen the sacrifice of the other soldiers in the coalition forces; neither am I denying that Uday became a bigger news because of being the first causality of Indian origin, but I don’t want to take away anything from Uday’s ultimate sacrifice!
PS: Anuj: none of this is directed towards you, but is my general impression of affairs. It is my humble expression the title could have been a bit more acceptable...
Sujata
Colonel Preet Mohinder is a decorated Indian army officer. What else did you expect from the guy? He did only what he knew best, to teach his son the only way to be self-sufficient and be proud on his merits through honest means, that’s more than can be said of some Indian fathers! (Discussion on corruption, anyone?) And is it than any wonder that you find many of those idle rowdies especially from our areas driving drunk in marutis or playing cards on the neighborhood joints?
I am not trying to lessen the sacrifice of the other soldiers in the coalition forces; neither am I denying that Uday became a bigger news because of being the first causality of Indian origin, but I don’t want to take away anything from Uday’s ultimate sacrifice!
PS: Anuj: none of this is directed towards you, but is my general impression of affairs. It is my humble expression the title could have been a bit more acceptable...
Sujata
Risking your life for something shows the strength of your character. Its both a great deed and a great tragedy. But the biggest tragedy is when you start evaluating one life as more valuable than others. The double standard in the coverage of news by desi media and american media is what concerns me. The media obviously blames the public taste.
Just as all Gods are equal, all cause is equally important, all life is equally valuable and all death is equally tragic.
Just as all Gods are equal, all cause is equally important, all life is equally valuable and all death is equally tragic.
Dear All,
I have been following the discussion and would like to make a point or two. Let me clarify that my comments are not directed against any member for I believe in 'Freedom of Expression'. However, the freedom should be used only after understanding the genesis of any problem.
I salute the ultimate sacrifice of both the Uday's, one a Major of Indian Army and another a Sgt in the US Army. They were both volunteers and no one forced them to join the Army. One can keep debating whether one joins the Armed Forces for 'Serving the Nation' or for 'Livelihood'. People have joined the Armed forces for various reasons. Some of the reasons were for ZAR, ZORU & ZAMIN wherein the victors looted. Later people joined for NAAM, NAMAK & NISHAN.
Sgt Uday of the US Army will get better press coverage than Major Uday for reasons which are not difficult to understand. I would not even attempt to answer them.
As to whether Sgt Uday joined the US Army for money, green card or patrotic ferver is none of my business. What I am proud of is that a soldier went 'Beyond the Call of Duty' and sacrificed his life for the NAAM of his ancestors, NAMAK of his employers and NISHAN of the Regimental Flag he was serving under.
I agree with Sujata Ji. I am happy to note the frankness in thought coming from a lady member. An indication that our future generations are in safer hands.
Thanka and regards,
Lt Col JS Malik (Retd)
I have been following the discussion and would like to make a point or two. Let me clarify that my comments are not directed against any member for I believe in 'Freedom of Expression'. However, the freedom should be used only after understanding the genesis of any problem.
I salute the ultimate sacrifice of both the Uday's, one a Major of Indian Army and another a Sgt in the US Army. They were both volunteers and no one forced them to join the Army. One can keep debating whether one joins the Armed Forces for 'Serving the Nation' or for 'Livelihood'. People have joined the Armed forces for various reasons. Some of the reasons were for ZAR, ZORU & ZAMIN wherein the victors looted. Later people joined for NAAM, NAMAK & NISHAN.
Sgt Uday of the US Army will get better press coverage than Major Uday for reasons which are not difficult to understand. I would not even attempt to answer them.
As to whether Sgt Uday joined the US Army for money, green card or patrotic ferver is none of my business. What I am proud of is that a soldier went 'Beyond the Call of Duty' and sacrificed his life for the NAAM of his ancestors, NAMAK of his employers and NISHAN of the Regimental Flag he was serving under.
I agree with Sujata Ji. I am happy to note the frankness in thought coming from a lady member. An indication that our future generations are in safer hands.
Thanka and regards,
Lt Col JS Malik (Retd)
S
sansanwalamit
Guest
mer•ce•nar•y ( P ) Pronunciation Key (mûrs-nr)
adj.
Motivated solely by a desire for monetary or material gain.
Hired for service in a foreign army.
The word itself is self explanatory of what I think of such efforts by someone who while belonging to his country traded his life for some monetary gains by dying for another country's army, of efforts which were targeted towards making his life better, increasing his living standards, satisfying the daredevil ness and adventure lust, paying his college, and I am sure the list can go longer,
Truly I do not care for the reasons behind such a happening, I do not even care about the motives, all i care about is that why such a person is glorified, why such an information is even spread around, why "educated" people are praising him, why are they ignoring the repercussions of this, why can't they see young bloods of India getting influenced by such act and developing similar dreams of their own to make their lives better.
I request all of you to give it a thought, please do not be a victim of this Republican media of America, do not let these new dreams of joining US army develop amongst youngsters of US, I understand most of you live down there and make your living in that nation but that does not mean that those who do not know about it may come under these wrong impressions.
We should always notice that there are many of us who are back in India and would like to be here, they might find it an easy route of getting here, which is not right.
I will also say that someone who breaks the allegiance to his country just to pay for his education displays lack of values, conscience, and patriotism. If you crave adrenaline and want to have more adventure then please look at the Indian Army, it surely offers more life threatening jobs which have the noblest cause of saving lives and country's pride behind them instead of serving US Army. Unless one is US citizen one should not serve US army, because that makes one a mercenary not a soldier, plus you break the allegiance to your Mother India to whom you will not just be a renegade son but a traitor.
And if money is such a big issue that one still will not serve in Indian Army then why should not one consider Al Qaeda, Hamas, etc. as they are always in need of mercenaries. So please stop giving positive weight to such an act, and one shall blame it on his young age and innocence that he did not realize what he was doing, so that we do not get to see more of these.
May God bless Uday's soul and his loved ones who are missing him
adj.
Motivated solely by a desire for monetary or material gain.
Hired for service in a foreign army.
The word itself is self explanatory of what I think of such efforts by someone who while belonging to his country traded his life for some monetary gains by dying for another country's army, of efforts which were targeted towards making his life better, increasing his living standards, satisfying the daredevil ness and adventure lust, paying his college, and I am sure the list can go longer,
Truly I do not care for the reasons behind such a happening, I do not even care about the motives, all i care about is that why such a person is glorified, why such an information is even spread around, why "educated" people are praising him, why are they ignoring the repercussions of this, why can't they see young bloods of India getting influenced by such act and developing similar dreams of their own to make their lives better.
I request all of you to give it a thought, please do not be a victim of this Republican media of America, do not let these new dreams of joining US army develop amongst youngsters of US, I understand most of you live down there and make your living in that nation but that does not mean that those who do not know about it may come under these wrong impressions.
We should always notice that there are many of us who are back in India and would like to be here, they might find it an easy route of getting here, which is not right.
I will also say that someone who breaks the allegiance to his country just to pay for his education displays lack of values, conscience, and patriotism. If you crave adrenaline and want to have more adventure then please look at the Indian Army, it surely offers more life threatening jobs which have the noblest cause of saving lives and country's pride behind them instead of serving US Army. Unless one is US citizen one should not serve US army, because that makes one a mercenary not a soldier, plus you break the allegiance to your Mother India to whom you will not just be a renegade son but a traitor.
And if money is such a big issue that one still will not serve in Indian Army then why should not one consider Al Qaeda, Hamas, etc. as they are always in need of mercenaries. So please stop giving positive weight to such an act, and one shall blame it on his young age and innocence that he did not realize what he was doing, so that we do not get to see more of these.
May God bless Uday's soul and his loved ones who are missing him
S
shokeen123
Guest
“Who Shall Live” by Victor R. Fuchs, was a required reading in my graduate work at Yale. Readership of this book is recommended for undergraduates in economics, sociology, and public policy; and for graduates in medicine, public health, and public policy; and physicians and other health professionals.
In his book Victor R. Fuchs draws on his deep understanding of the strengths and limitations of economics and his intimate knowledge of health care institutions to help readers understand the problems every nation faces in trying to allocate health resources efficiently and equitably. His intension for writing this book was for the health professionals, policy makers, social scientists, students and concerned citizens to benefit from the knowledge dealing with national health insurance, poverty and health, and other social policy issues.
Although this book is written with special emphasis on health care, its metaphoric economic analysis is applicable to social problems of national concern as to who shall live and who shall die from lack of health care or other necessities of life. The book provokes one to assimilate this understanding to other social and ethical issues facing the public moralists in every nation today. Therefore, the question is not “Who is a mercenary?” But “Why does one become a mercenary?”
The anatomy of one’s decisions, as to “What” “How” “When” or “Why” one leaves his village, hometown, or his country, is based on these social, personal, and economical circumstances, and not on high moral grounds! As far as the conscience, sense of patriotism and allegiance to one’s country go, it is a romantic notion that goes out of window the moment you hit reality, and separate fact from fiction. There is nothing immoral about bettering one’s life as long as it is not tainted with immorality. Perhaps this one significant and highly publicized death will catapult the issues of social, political and economical importance to the forefront of the national policies? Who knows it might even serve as a wake up call for the Indian administration? As some one has said earlier somewhere, no death is less tragic!
Having said that there are expatriate philanthropists who have never lost sight of their roots and have continued contributing one way or another; and then there are hardcore patriots who, having abused the already depleting premium national resources have amounted to nothing more than corrupt, immoral agents, plaguing the very society in which they live. Which one of them will you pick to have committed treason?
In his book Victor R. Fuchs draws on his deep understanding of the strengths and limitations of economics and his intimate knowledge of health care institutions to help readers understand the problems every nation faces in trying to allocate health resources efficiently and equitably. His intension for writing this book was for the health professionals, policy makers, social scientists, students and concerned citizens to benefit from the knowledge dealing with national health insurance, poverty and health, and other social policy issues.
Although this book is written with special emphasis on health care, its metaphoric economic analysis is applicable to social problems of national concern as to who shall live and who shall die from lack of health care or other necessities of life. The book provokes one to assimilate this understanding to other social and ethical issues facing the public moralists in every nation today. Therefore, the question is not “Who is a mercenary?” But “Why does one become a mercenary?”
The anatomy of one’s decisions, as to “What” “How” “When” or “Why” one leaves his village, hometown, or his country, is based on these social, personal, and economical circumstances, and not on high moral grounds! As far as the conscience, sense of patriotism and allegiance to one’s country go, it is a romantic notion that goes out of window the moment you hit reality, and separate fact from fiction. There is nothing immoral about bettering one’s life as long as it is not tainted with immorality. Perhaps this one significant and highly publicized death will catapult the issues of social, political and economical importance to the forefront of the national policies? Who knows it might even serve as a wake up call for the Indian administration? As some one has said earlier somewhere, no death is less tragic!
Having said that there are expatriate philanthropists who have never lost sight of their roots and have continued contributing one way or another; and then there are hardcore patriots who, having abused the already depleting premium national resources have amounted to nothing more than corrupt, immoral agents, plaguing the very society in which they live. Which one of them will you pick to have committed treason?
I am very sad to read the comments of few subscribers. Soldiering is a not only a profession but also a religion. Those who feel that he gave his life for other nation are wrong in their thinking. What about those who make you die for their lust for power in our own country. Comparing a regular soldier whether he belongs to US army or any other army with Al Quaida or Hamas is totally wrong. We should feel proud of some one who gave his life and showed bravery rather than criticizing. It takes a mans courage and a lions heart to do well in battle and Udai Singh had just done that. I pray to God Almighty to give strength to the bereved family to bear this irrepairable loss.
naveen_chaudhary
New member
Amit
I'm afraid I don't agree with you at all. Most of us move to other countries for money. It doesn't matter then whether you work in Army or any other field. To call him a mercenary is an insult to his sacrifice and totally uncalled for. Would you like to call every Indian working outside India a 'mercenary' a different type though.
I'm afraid I don't agree with you at all. Most of us move to other countries for money. It doesn't matter then whether you work in Army or any other field. To call him a mercenary is an insult to his sacrifice and totally uncalled for. Would you like to call every Indian working outside India a 'mercenary' a different type though.
S
sansanwalamit
Guest
It is not me who called him mercenary, it is his act that made him one, he was hired by a foreign army and thus he was a mercenary there is no doubt about that, personally I would rate a mercenary fighting for Hamas or Al Qaeda better then someone fighting for the US army, as the people working for Al Qaeda and Hamas are already brainwashed unlike the fellow Indian we lost in Iraq,
Why cannot you people see that my issue is not about him, I do not care an inch of why he got in there, what was he up to, all I care for is that there shall not be even a single Indian youth who is going to follow his example, I suppose Americans want more soldiers and who better to pick then foreigners trying to make their lives better.
As a fact someone already mentioned in this post that nobody knew that they will be sent to Iraq to fight thus being in US army was just an easy task, well call it a twist of fate US became hungry for oil and he and so many others lost their lives due to this avarice of oil.
Thus, I would mention again that there would be more foolhardy people, who would want to get to North America through this route, so we shall not encourage any of such activity by carrying this topic on.
If one has to make his/her life better then one shall do it but while sparing and being honest to the ones who have made him/her.
And working as a civilian is very different then working for the army, I myself have worked here and will be working again but till the time I have my ties with my country I cannot spend even a little drop of my blood except for humanity or my country, well that is my moral, and I am very happy with that, because I do not see anything that working for a second nation’s army can give me what my nation hasn’t given me already.
May God bless Uday's soul and those who miss him,
And I pray to God that no countrymen of mine should meet with this fate ever again.
Why cannot you people see that my issue is not about him, I do not care an inch of why he got in there, what was he up to, all I care for is that there shall not be even a single Indian youth who is going to follow his example, I suppose Americans want more soldiers and who better to pick then foreigners trying to make their lives better.
As a fact someone already mentioned in this post that nobody knew that they will be sent to Iraq to fight thus being in US army was just an easy task, well call it a twist of fate US became hungry for oil and he and so many others lost their lives due to this avarice of oil.
Thus, I would mention again that there would be more foolhardy people, who would want to get to North America through this route, so we shall not encourage any of such activity by carrying this topic on.
If one has to make his/her life better then one shall do it but while sparing and being honest to the ones who have made him/her.
And working as a civilian is very different then working for the army, I myself have worked here and will be working again but till the time I have my ties with my country I cannot spend even a little drop of my blood except for humanity or my country, well that is my moral, and I am very happy with that, because I do not see anything that working for a second nation’s army can give me what my nation hasn’t given me already.
May God bless Uday's soul and those who miss him,
And I pray to God that no countrymen of mine should meet with this fate ever again.
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