Disparity among Officers of Defence Forces

[deepika]

Sachin jee and Deswal jee i dont know about other threads but in this one u both seem to be Rundha Khundha of some haryanvi movies who come up with funny two liners(sometimes 4)just for the heck of contributing to the threadJokes apart....Satyander jee aapne kabhi gaav jaake laamni ki hai?Army ki job me officers ko lamni se jyada mehnat wale kaam karne padte hai.Aur army wali life ka 5 saal ka experience civil ki job ki 10 saal(ya kahu ki 15)ki mehant se jayda hai.Civilians ko karna hi kya hota hai ek kursi pe baith gaye computer mai aakh gaad li,thoda sa kaam kar liya aur phir ghaddi dekhte raho ki kam time over ho aur ghar pahuch ke chai peeye



Kaptan Sahab,

hamne to suna hai ki MP aur MLAs ki pension bhi hoti hai,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Bhai Sahab,

Uskey liye te wa e option badhiya se ki herek balak 2 ya 5 saal tai Fauj main naukri karega...pher apna profession sambhalega...er paise bhi achhay milney chahiye...Nue kai western countries main se..manney suni se ya baat....

 

[prashantacmet]

Sachin jee and Deswal jee i dont know about other threads but in this one u both seem to be Rundha Khundha of some haryanvi movies who come up with funny two liners(sometimes 4)just for the heck of contributing to the threadJokes apart....Satyander jee aapne kabhi gaav jaake laamni ki hai?Army ki job me officers ko lamni se jyada mehnat wale kaam karne padte hai.Aur army wali life ka 5 saal ka experience civil ki job ki 10 saal(ya kahu ki 15)ki mehant se jayda hai.Civilians ko karna hi kya hota hai ek kursi pe baith gaye computer mai aakh gaad li,thoda sa kaam kar liya aur phir gaddi dekhte raho ki kam time over ho aur ghar pahuch ke chai peeye



Kaptan Sahab,

hamne to suna hai ki MP aur MLAs ki pension bhi hoti hai,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Deepika, This is not the same always! it is 3.00 AM IST and I am still in front of my desk waiting for some miracle to happen to break down my driver bug that is preventing us from project release scheduled for yesterday ...sometimes civilians also feel the heat ...it is not confined only for armymen...

 

[deepika]

Prashant may be civil job require brain storming but m sure u will agree to the fact that civilians job dont require so much of physical hardwork,moreover even if civilians have to work hard they get decent salary(or i say something worth they work for)and not peanuts.

Deepika, This is not the same always! it is 3.00 AM IST and I am still in front of my desk waiting for some miracle to happen to break down my driver bug that is preventing us from project release scheduled for yesterday ...sometimes civilians also feel the heat ...it is not confined only for armymen...

 

[ygulia]

Now thats really funny.When they serve the same motherland.When they wear the same uniform then why shudn't they get the equal rights?Do u mean to say after serving SSC,one guy gets into IAS/IFS/IPS only by writing exam and because of seniority one gets for serving nation for five years?Do u think its easy to serve Army for 5 years?One year has 365 days and 5 years have 1836 days.Every single day comes with a new challenge to them.My .

Most of the people on this site have atleast a close relative in Army. Do not draw conclusions by attending couple of parties. Please do not twist the comments as highlighted in red. Read carefully. I have written; Writing only compulsory papers i.e. GS, Egnlish and Hindi, while in civil services optional papers carry 66 percent weightage.
If you think physical hard work is more important then I think those who sweep the road should be paid the highest salary. Thanks.

 

[raj2rif]

Good That You Expressed!!

Dear uncle!I hope you won't mind if i express my views abt this issue.I have attended lot of army parties and observed that most of the officers and their wives keep flattering Co and his wife.CO and his wife try flattering Commander and his wife and so on.It was hilarious to see junior officers complimenting CO's ugly wife "Mam! u are looking good today".So officers have to do such kind of flattery to be in CO's goodbooks and to get some favours done.Afterall CO is the one who make make their lives hell or heaven on the earthI think after spending certain amount of time in army and reaching one designation(to me its 2IC)Officers,most of them,try to take advantage of their position(I am sorry if it hurts you,may be you are not one of them).I have no doubts about the fact that young officers have to sweat more and work harder then officers on higher designations as senior officers have to pass orders and assign duties to juniors and do their level best to keep junior officers on their toes(even if its not required).18 years old can't become a general because that designation also wants an officers to go through hardship initially and some good brains at a later stage when one grabs certain amount of power to influence and affect junior officers.That's how it goes.Your senior subaltern was right about his statement as i have already mentioned how it works in the army(No offence)

Dear Deepika,

Good thing that you expressed your views and experience. I don't think you become general or get promotions because of flattering. That is a big misnomer. There is a lot I can write on man management and on this subject itself, but let us restrict to the issue.
1. Army Party is not the only thing what army does.
2. Both young and senior officers have to rough it out.
3. Flattering definitely does not give you promotions, it might give you vacation when you need it.
4. I have seen most officers those who indulge in this kind of activities don't go beyond certain rank. Trust me that is true. As you say, Nakal ko Bhi Akal ke zarurat hoti hai, similarly, even if one is resorting to flattery, he still has to perform.
5. CO alone can't promote officer. He can only give his points in ACR, there is RO and SRO also. All together an officer of the rank of a Major (I guess now Lt Col) has to make an average of 21 Points. CO can at best award 8 to an officer who is not competent, but even that would come under a scanner. Is the system absolutely fair, I guess loopholes are everywhere and army is no exception? But let me assure you, it is not free for all situations.
6. If I give my own experience, then people might say I am bragging. But my Battalion was the one who got first Citation from the COAS during Kargil Operations. That would not have been possible if, right training was not given, or officers were not groomed properly. I shared my rain coat in cold winters of Rajasthan during one exercise with Late Major Vivek Gupta, MVC (then 2/Lt) to protect him from the cold.
Unfortunately, most people form opinion about the Army/ Services by attending one odd or a few parties. It is not all party every time.

Now Senior Officer passing the orders: Well you don't pass the orders out of your head. A lot of planning goes into before the executive orders are issued. That requires a lot of brain storming, detailed analysis and translation of plans into simple orders that can be understood by our soldiers and executed as intended to. If that is a routine work (as explained by the officer starting this thread) that can be done by any one, I leave it to your judgment.

Have you ever imagined, the planning of an military operation? I will give you simple example of just making traffic arrangement for people vacating their villages and moving to safer area from border villages, while the army is moving in opposite direction. Imagine the volume of traffic on those small roads that has to move seamlessly, in timely manner while trying to keep surprise factor. If that is the routine job, and can be done by any one, then why waste so much of time and effort in training officers and paying them?

Regarding, telling an ugly looking CO's wife, that she is looking good. Kindly tell me any one in civil organization tells a lady (however ugly she may be) during a social gathering that she is looking ugly or not looking good? Try and recollect your experience of any wedding celebrations. Why CO's wife alone, no one says anything bad to the ladies in military. During those parties also, you might have noticed that even senior most officer gets up when a lady arrives, irrespective of her husband's rank. Would you call that also flattery?

 

[vpannu]

I don know how many of you are aware of this. The short service commission officers(SSCO) are given second grade treatment.

Mr Gahlaut disparity starts right from the recruitment process as far as I know. Been to SSB 11 times, screened out 3 times and in the rest of the 8 times I saw every RIMCian, Sainik School candidate, son of an officer getting through to the final stage and being selected at last. An officer from NDA CDS gets promoted quickly as compared to SSCOs and others, most of the times.
If you have compromised to on your service term then you also need to be ready to face compromise on these facilities. ek fauji to apni poori umar kho ke aave fauj me or doosra 5-7 saal, now do you really think they both should get similar facilities after they retire?

If you think physical hard work is more important then I think those who sweep the road should be paid the highest salary. Thanks.

Guliya bhai , do you think a sweeper is sweeper by choice? You must be aware of the fact that the men in uniform work 24X7 365.25 days a year. How about their family and kids?

 

[deepika]

Here again i would love to clear some bigtime misunderstandings that you have.Eve if we talk about the work which needs one to use brains army officers are anytime smarter than civiliansThey carry themselves pretty well,they have more etiquette ,thorough gentlemen they are better orator so obviously better writer as wellOne more thing it wasn't just about a couple of parties i have attended but more then 10-15 years i have been seeing and observing it.You better disscuss the same with your 'Close Relative' he will open ur eyes in better way on the issue that how and where they are better then civiliansAs far as appearing for such exams is concerned I believe they shudn't be even appreaing for such exams at all but should be given such designation considering their work experience I am not trying to tiwist any of the comments i am projecting a fair and true picture.You may think what pleases you and suits you well.By the way how do you know that most of the people on this site have atleast a close relative in Amry.You did some survey or what?

Most of the people on this site have atleast a close relative in Army. Do not draw conclusions by attending couple of parties. Please do not twist the comments as highlighted in red. Read carefully. I have written; Writing only compulsory papers i.e. GS, Egnlish and Hindi, while in civil services optional papers carry 66 percent weightage.
If you think physical hard work is more important then I think those who sweep the road should be paid the highest salary. Thanks.

 

[deepika]

Dear uncle!believe me its for the first time that i am liking this healthy argument with you as either it will make you change your point of view or it will change mine.I will be happy both ways
So here i am once again.
I won't say that one reaches high designation only by flattery but still it makes a part of that very success(may be a little of contribution it has to pay but it pays for sure).
1.I know Army people have to do lot of work other than parties.They do everything which they can to serve our motherland.
2.I agree both of them have to work hard but again as i said young officers have to work harder.
3.Nopes flattery not only gets one vacations but also saves them from some tasks which they are suppose to do but CO can assign the same to some other officers of his batch.It saves some people from working as hard as they are suppose to.
4.Right one can't just leave everything on flattery.Army selects smart people.So most of them know where to speak and where to work.Some of them are really hard working creatures who become CO's favourite and to whom CO's keeps passing the job which was originally assigned to some lazy but again favourite officer(good at flattery)
5.Very true.CO cant promote on his own but initially he plays vital role in giving his points and remarks in ACR,SRO etc which can affect the officer's reputation and designation in the long term.But i agree to err in human and so amry also has its part of loopholes in some areas.
6.Uncle as i mentioned before ofcourse i agree that army officers work really hard and i salute all the martyr and alive officers for doing so.But then Army people do such kind of work when they are on some exercise or have some field posting.Hats off to you for being such a dedicated officer and making all of us proud of you.
I agree that lot of planning is required in this job but the order of hierarcy can be changed if two officers are of same designation but have different tasks(here i have mentioned this to highlight the use of flattery).If there are two tasks of different nature still there is a scope of comparing them and judging which one is more easy.
I dont know how military operations are planned but i am sure it needs lot of hard work as it involves human lives.
About compliment to a CO's wife i would say that ofcourse nobody would tell one ugly lady in any organization that she is ugly but then nobody will give fake compliments untill and unless its serving that complimenter's purpose in any way.So my point here is nobody gives fake compliments unless it serves his/her purpose.Senior officers gets up when a lady arrives,irrespective of her husband's rank as its a gesture of respect towards the woman but compliment given to CO's wife was certainly not out of respect as i have explained above.So its not just about couple of parties i have attended but i know lot of familes with army backgrounds and which makes me know more about Army.



Dear Deepika,

Good thing that you expressed your views and experience. I don't think you become general or get promotions because of flattering. That is a big misnomer. There is a lot I can write on man management and on this subject itself, but let us restrict to the issue.
1. Army Party is not the only thing what army does.
2. Both young and senior officers have to rough it out.
3. Flattering definitely does not give you promotions, it might give you vacation when you need it.
4. I have seen most officers those who indulge in this kind of activities don't go beyond certain rank. Trust me that is true. As you say, Nakal ko Bhi Akal ke zarurat hoti hai, similarly, even if one is resorting to flattery, he still has to perform.
5. CO alone can't promote officer. He can only give his points in ACR, there is RO and SRO also. All together an officer of the rank of a Major (I guess now Lt Col) has to make an average of 21 Points. CO can at best award 8 to an officer who is not competent, but even that would come under a scanner. Is the system absolutely fair, I guess loopholes are everywhere and army is no exception? But let me assure you, it is not free for all situations.
6. If I give my own experience, then people might say I am bragging. But my Battalion was the one who got first Citation from the COAS during Kargil Operations. That would not have been possible if, right training was not given, or officers were not groomed properly. I shared my rain coat in cold winters of Rajasthan during one exercise with Late Major Vivek Gupta, MVC (then 2/Lt) to protect him from the cold.
Unfortunately, most people form opinion about the Army/ Services by attending one odd or a few parties. It is not all party every time.

Now Senior Officer passing the orders: Well you don't pass the orders out of your head. A lot of planning goes into before the executive orders are issued. That requires a lot of brain storming, detailed analysis and translation of plans into simple orders that can be understood by our soldiers and executed as intended to. If that is a routine work (as explained by the officer starting this thread) that can be done by any one, I leave it to your judgment.

Have you ever imagined, the planning of an military operation? I will give you simple example of just making traffic arrangement for people vacating their villages and moving to safer area from border villages, while the army is moving in opposite direction. Imagine the volume of traffic on those small roads that has to move seamlessly, in timely manner while trying to keep surprise factor. If that is the routine job, and can be done by any one, then why waste so much of time and effort in training officers and paying them?

Regarding, telling an ugly looking CO's wife, that she is looking good. Kindly tell me any one in civil organization tells a lady (however ugly she may be) during a social gathering that she is looking ugly or not looking good? Try and recollect your experience of any wedding celebrations. Why CO's wife alone, no one says anything bad to the ladies in military. During those parties also, you might have noticed that even senior most officer gets up when a lady arrives, irrespective of her husband's rank. Would you call that also flattery?
[/QUOTE]

 

[raj2rif]

That is not True.

Dear uncle!believe me its for the first time that i am liking this healthy argument with you as either it will make you change your point of view or it will change mine.I will be happy both ways
So here i am once again.
I won't say that one reaches high designation only by flattery but still it makes a part of that very success(may be a little of contribution it has to pay but it pays for sure).
1.I know Army people have to do lot of work other than parties.They do everything which they can to serve our motherland.
2.I agree both of them have to work hard but again as i said young officers have to work harder.
3.Nopes flattery not only gets one vacations but also saves them from some tasks which they are suppose to do but CO can assign the same to some other officers of his batch.It saves some people from working as hard as they are suppose to.
4.Right one can't just leave everything on flattery.Army selects smart people.So most of them know where to speak and where to work.Some of them are really hard working creatures who become CO's favourite and to whom CO's keeps passing the job which was originally assigned to some lazy but again favourite officer(good at flattery)
5.Very true.CO cant promote on his own but initially he plays vital role in giving his points and remarks in ACR,SRO etc which can affect the officer's reputation and designation in the long term.But i agree to err in human and so amry also has its part of loopholes in some areas.
6.Uncle as i mentioned before ofcourse i agree that army officers work really hard and i salute all the martyr and alive officers for doing so.But then Army people do such kind of work when they are on some exercise or have some field posting.Hats off to you for being such a dedicated officer and making all of us proud of you.
I agree that lot of planning is required in this job but the order of hierarcy can be changed if two officers are of same designation but have different tasks(here i have mentioned this to highlight the use of flattery).If there are two tasks of different nature still there is a scope of comparing them and judging which one is more easy.
I dont know how military operations are planned but i am sure it needs lot of hard work as it involves human lives.
About compliment to a CO's wife i would say that ofcourse nobody would tell one ugly lady in any organization that she is ugly but then nobody will give fake compliments untill and unless its serving that complimenter's purpose in any way.So my point here is nobody gives fake compliments unless it serves his/her purpose.Senior officers gets up when a lady arrives,irrespective of her husband's rank as its a gesture of respect towards the woman but compliment given to CO's wife was certainly not out of respect as i have explained above.So its not just about couple of parties i have attended but i know lot of familes with army backgrounds and which makes me know more about Army.

Dear Deepika,
How do you define the hard work. If you are talking about physical work, then may be yes or may be no. Some times a young officer is looking after only his platoon, or say company in a limited Geographical Area. A senior officer is looking after his entire battalion, or Brigade as the case may be. A good Commanding officer is always on move and visiting his companies, in most cases if you are working in field area, then on foot. Having done his patrolling a young officer probably can relax and go to sleep, while a Senior Officer may have to prepare the report, see the mail, take decisions about postings, promotions, forth coming training and operational events and the list goes on. As I said earlier, it is a misconception among those who have inadequate knowledge of affairs military.

Actually, flattary does not get you the easy assignments also. An officer who gets through various selection boards, gets trained on number of courses, and having served in the organization, is smart enough to know as to who is best suited for a particular job. After all his own performance is dependent on the outcome and success of each assignment given to his unit. So, if some officer is getting tough assignments he should feel proud of himself, rather than disgusted.

In most organizations there are about 30% people who do about 80% of the work. These are the 30% people who make it to the top. There is no short cut to success. As has been said "Bullshit might take you to the top, it would not keep you there". I am sure there are people in every organization who indulge in the business of flattary to gain undue advantage. While it might be successful in civil organizations (I am sure it might not be successful in Corporate world where the results are the measure of success) it certainly not a big factor in military. Those who say that, are giving incomplete and wrong information.

You said that you have attended numerous parties of the Army. I respect that, but I am not here to just win an argument with. How much knowledge you can get about an organization during the limited time you spend in parties, is open to discussion and I leave it to your own judgment.

By the way, Commanding officer is the father figure in the battalion. We all give respect to our parents. Army units specially the Infantry Battalions are like a well knit family. Good battalions certainly are. So, if some one has said some thing good about the old lady, well that needs to be taken in that perspective.

There are people who do flattary with the aim of gaining some advantages. It might work for some, but for most it does not. After all Army Officers come from our own society, they are not born and brought up in different places.

I remember, when I joined my battalion for the first time, I ran a good race in the administrative inspection and came first in a 2 mile run in the entire unit. The reason was simple, I was a long distance runner in the College and had just come back from Commando Course, so I was in best physical fitness when the event took place. This led to me being nominated for the battalion cross country team. Now all the soldiers used to run with me in the morning and used to rest after morning run, while I as an officer had to go to the training area and do training with rest of the company, then check the food, do some office work and have my lunch in officers mess which used to end around 2:30 PM, then we used to have practice about 4 PM. Sometimes I used to throw up. I also had a good company commander who used to give me a lot of written work for my professional advancement. I did not like it then, but it served me a lot during my entire career. To date, I always tell people about the company commander who defined my career.

Army career is not just another job. As an officer you have enormous responsibility. A good officer will not even let his emotions come out in the time of crisis. We are all human beings, but as an officer we have an extremely big heart that acts as a buffer to absorb a lots of shocks and setbacks and remains cool in times of crisis.

I can keep writing, but let me end here. Next time you attend a party, try and look for more details. It would be a good learning experience. Try and mix up with young and old officers rather than chatting with the ladies. Try and read all those officers.

 

[sachinb]

Deepika Ji, By the way I love these two characters Rundha-Khundha,,,,,,,,I write two liners also and I am very much capable of writing long posts,,,,,,What you infer from my two liners depends upon your mental aptitude,,,,,,,and I think you didnt read the other posts which I wrote after these two liners,,,,,,,,,

I like to take bull by horn and that I did in this thread after my second post onward,,,,,and its better you dont read that,,,,because you will never understand Jai Jawan Jai Kisaan

Sachin jee and Deswal jee i dont know about other threads but in this one u both seem to be Rundha Khundha of some haryanvi movies who come up with funny two liners(sometimes 4)just for the heck of contributing to the threadJokes apart....Satyander jee aapne kabhi gaav jaake laamni ki hai?Army ki job me officers ko lamni se jyada mehnat wale kaam karne



Kaptan Sahab,

hamne to suna hai ki MP aur MLAs ki pension bhi hoti hai,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[deepika]

I knew u like them that's why u keep trying to be like one most of the timeYup i know and thats why i am not even bothering myself as m so very sure its difficult for not only me but for anybody to understand ur written stuff....Be a sport...it was a joke but u r too sensitive to even take this one...waise normally itni senstive ladkiya hoti hai jaise ki maiU take bull by horns...but where's the bull?

Deepika Ji, By the way I love these two characters Rundha-Khundha,,,,,,,,I write two liners also and I am very much capable of writing long posts,,,,,,What you infer from my two liners depends upon your mental aptitude,,,,,,,and I think you didnt read the other posts which I wrote after these two liners,,,,,,,,,

I like to take bull by horn and that I did in this thread after my second post onward,,,,,and its better you dont read that,,,,because you will never understand Jai Jawan Jai Kisaan

 

[deepika]

Dear uncle!I respect your opinion but still i am not really convinced(may be its because you can't get to know about one organization completely unless you work within).My views din't seem true to you but unfortunately even if its not the real picture but still quite close to it.You said Commanding officer is the father figure in the battalion(I am sure when you were young you may have given respect to ur senior officers),but if we talk about present scenario then its not the case anymore.Bachelor officers use worst of the abuses for CO(i hope you are not shocked to read this).You are right commanding officer needs to work alot and has to take care of every little issue within unit.CO wants to show that unit is working efficiently under his supervision and to prove it,he makes young officers suffer for it most of the times(I dont want to elaborate as again its related to organizing parties).Army is one organization where hard work really can't be defined as army officers can be assigned any kind job to do(right from serving motherland as a brave soldier to organizing parties like event manager).So its a complicated issue to discuss.As i said flattery exists in the organization.It really does.Had u been one of those kinds you would have never replied to my post but my bad luck was that u r not one of them and u read it Now as everyone(including you) think that my mindset is just an outcome of my presence in a couple of parties.Here i would like to mention that i have a couple of friends and relatives who are in army.To be very honest they have depicted the present picture of the army.Here again i would like to mention that i am not talking about 4 or 5 serving officers but so many i m in touch with and all are posted in different parts of country.So we can't say that its an opinion made by a couple of individuals.Had that been the case then number of serving officers willing to chuck army wudn't have been so high.This is a proof in itself that there's something unplesant within Army.Something ugly which is not visible to civilians.

Dear Deepika,
How do you define the hard work. If you are talking about physical work, then may be yes or may be no. Some times a young officer is looking after only his platoon, or say company in a limited Geographical Area. A senior officer is looking after his entire battalion, or Brigade as the case may be. A good Commanding officer is always on move and visiting his companies, in most cases if you are working in field area, then on foot. Having done his patrolling a young officer probably can relax and go to sleep, while a Senior Officer may have to prepare the report, see the mail, take decisions about postings, promotions, forth coming training and operational events and the list goes on. As I said earlier, it is a misconception among those who have inadequate knowledge of affairs military.

Actually, flattary does not get you the easy assignments also. An officer who gets through various selection boards, gets trained on number of courses, and having served in the organization, is smart enough to know as to who is best suited for a particular job. After all his own performance is dependent on the outcome and success of each assignment given to his unit. So, if some officer is getting tough assignments he should feel proud of himself, rather than disgusted.

In most organizations there are about 30% people who do about 80% of the work. These are the 30% people who make it to the top. There is no short cut to success. As has been said "Bullshit might take you to the top, it would not keep you there". I am sure there are people in every organization who indulge in the business of flattary to gain undue advantage. While it might be successful in civil organizations (I am sure it might not be successful in Corporate world where the results are the measure of success) it certainly not a big factor in military. Those who say that, are giving incomplete and wrong information.

You said that you have attended numerous parties of the Army. I respect that, but I am not here to just win an argument with. How much knowledge you can get about an organization during the limited time you spend in parties, is open to discussion and I leave it to your own judgment.

By the way, Commanding officer is the father figure in the battalion. We all give respect to our parents. Army units specially the Infantry Battalions are like a well knit family. Good battalions certainly are. So, if some one has said some thing good about the old lady, well that needs to be taken in that perspective.

There are people who do flattary with the aim of gaining some advantages. It might work for some, but for most it does not. After all Army Officers come from our own society, they are not born and brought up in different places.

I remember, when I joined my battalion for the first time, I ran a good race in the administrative inspection and came first in a 2 mile run in the entire unit. The reason was simple, I was a long distance runner in the College and had just come back from Commando Course, so I was in best physical fitness when the event took place. This led to me being nominated for the battalion cross country team. Now all the soldiers used to run with me in the morning and used to rest after morning run, while I as an officer had to go to the training area and do training with rest of the company, then check the food, do some office work and have my lunch in officers mess which used to end around 2:30 PM, then we used to have practice about 4 PM. Sometimes I used to throw up. I also had a good company commander who used to give me a lot of written work for my professional advancement. I did not like it then, but it served me a lot during my entire career. To date, I always tell people about the company commander who defined my career.

Army career is not just another job. As an officer you have enormous responsibility. A good officer will not even let his emotions come out in the time of crisis. We are all human beings, but as an officer we have an extremely big heart that acts as a buffer to absorb a lots of shocks and setbacks and remains cool in times of crisis.

I can keep writing, but let me end here. Next time you attend a party, try and look for more details. It would be a good learning experience. Try and mix up with young and old officers rather than chatting with the ladies. Try and read all those officers.

 

[sachinb]

Manne to Joke maan ke e aapna reply likhyaa thaa because of obvious reasons ,,,,,,,,and Bull is there >>>>>>>>>>

I knew u like them that's why u keep trying to be like one most of the timeYup i know and thats why i am not even bothering myself as m so very sure its difficult for not only me but for anybody to understand ur written stuff....Be a sport...it was a joke but u r too sensitive to even take this one...waise normally itni senstive ladkiya hoti hai jaise ki maiU take bull by horns...but where's the bull?

 

[deepika]

Acha woh joke tha kyaAbb yeh dekho joke bhi aisa maarte ho ki kisi ke samajh me naa aavai toh thread pai reply toh durr ki baat hai....Still i can't see any bull aroundwaise aapka woh lamba sa reply padha maine issi thread pe aapke 2 liners ke baad and i must se aapne pehli baar koi dhang ka aur dimag wala reply kiya hai

Manne to Joke maan ke e aapna reply likhyaa thaa because of obvious reasons ,,,,,,,,and Bull is there >>>>>>>>>>

 

[sachinb]

Thanks .....now i see atleast people have started agreeing to things I write.,,,Baaki,,,,Bull abhi bhi hai,,,,plzz try to see

By the way I will write more on this topic, am just waiting others to pour their view.....Just waiting to hear from Colonel Malik Sahab on this topic his valuable views

waise aapka woh lamba sa reply padha maine issi thread pe aapke 2 liners ke baad and i must se aapne pehli baar koi dhang ka aur dimag wala reply kiya hai

 

[captparry]

Gone through all the comments, what i feel that we are bit drifting from the topic as its not about how is life in army or quality of officers or comparison of officers in view of the type of commission in service.............Guys its about post release privileges. Like my old buddy Manjeet i also cherish my bond with my paltan, my COs & my units officrs,JCOs & men. I also wish all my units officers & ladies on the b'days & anni.I was in my unit last few months back only on the raising & lt me it was some memorable stay......but here we are not talking about service conditions or life of an officer during the stay in Army. I firmly believe that as an organization army is THE BEST & no other organization is somewhere near to it............Here we are talking about disparity in status of officers post release.
Tewatia sir i am in full agreement with what you say...we all are brother officers while in service but my point is that why that brotherhood vanishes once officer like me & Manjeet hang their uniforms. Why can't we contribute & avail the facility of ECHS, why we are not considered part of the same fraternity & denied to feel connected to the organization by the means of members of various institutes. Sir, pl understand the point which i am trying to bring out.....That EVEN IF WE HAVE SERVED FOR 5/10 YEARS...DOES THAT MAKES CIVILIAN BY HEART ALSO???????THE ANSWER IS BIG NO. Here i would like to mention one of my commanding Officer who always treated me as his son & his lady wife always said & treated my wife as their "Bahu" & we are maintaining that close relationship till date. He mentioned once to me that "SON, ONCE A FAUZI ALWAYS A FAUZI". And i am sure all of us are living with that feel in our hearts. But when we ask for some welfare from the prestigious organization like DGR, then an officer of the level of Maj. General who was DG at that time says that "you guys come for GUEST APPEARENCES & go then why should we consider you"...YOU KNOW TEVATIA SIR THESE THINGS HURTS....That’s why i mentioned that there is a disparity. That why i say that prime of one's life that is youth is given to organization/nation & then he is left like he never belonged to them..you know like doodh main se makhii...WHY..........????? Are we somehow less than our counterparts in anyway......Sir i am asking you why DGR has removed empanelment of SS Officers from Toll Plaza & Coal Transportation schemes????? & recently i came to know that our so called policy makers are planning to remove SS Officers from security agency empanelment too.........Do we deserve that treatment??????? Let me make one thing here very clear that its not about money at all as most of us are doing exceptionally well in corporate & fully satisfied, but.........SIR ITS JUST ABOUT MINDSET OF OUR TOPBRASS TOWARDS US & ABOUT OUR SENSE OF BELONGINGNESS TO THE FAUZ.
As regards to resettlement courses & benefits....who needs it more????..(With all due regards sir) An officer who comes out of Defence in his thirties with a family to look after with small kids for whom he has to plan for their education & settlement in life....OR an officer who has served for 20-25 years, kids are settled, he has done away with all his responsibility, with good post retirement facilities & pension to suffice the basic needs of two old persons i.e. officer & his lady wife.........................Pl think over it.

WHY WE ARE NOT CONSIDERED AS PART OF THE SAME FATERNITY WHEN WE ALL HAVE SERVED IN OLIVE GREEN....DURATION MAY BE LESS BUT DOES THAT SUCH A STRONG & VALID REASON TO PUT EX-SS OFFICERS IN DUSTBIN...GUYS WE ALSO LOVE THE ORGANIZATION AS MUCH YOU ALL DO........DOES IT NOT FAIR ON THE ORGANIZATION'S PART ALSO THAT IT SHOULD MAKE US FEEL THAT WE ARE FOR YOU TOO?????????????????????????????????????

 

[jagmohan]

Here it is...

[QUOTE Just waiting to hear from Colonel Malik Sahab on this topic his valuable views[/QUOTE]

As far as I am concerned most of the points have been discussed. Normally I try and make my point only once. I believe that everyone who participates in the discussion does so with a lot of responsibility and I am no one to prove someone’s experiences right or wrong. But, since Bhai Sachin Balyan has twice requested me to say something again, here it goes. And I shall confine myself to the topic, which is injustice to SS Officers after retirement. I think seeing the deficiency of officers in the forces, many of the anomalies should automatically get addressed.

Few points from my side:

1. I don’t think pension would be granted after 5/10/15 years of service. There may be lateral movement in other government services.
2. ECHS is a contributory scheme and I see no reason as to why SS Officers who are given the right to be ex-servicemen should not be covered by it. I have been out of the Army for almost eight years now but if I am not wrong ECHS is being availed by SS Officers too. Just yesterday one of my relative (mother of an SS Officer who is getting some disability pension) got herself treated at R&R Hospital, Delhi. I don’t know how but if this is unauthorized, then God save this country.
3. As to the treatment of SS Officers by the system or for that matter by other entries (Ex NDA & IMA), well there is no visible discrimination. I don’t deny some isolated cases though. As to why do they happen, well I have no answer. I for one was lucky enough to be through OTA & IMA and therefore had equal respect for all.
4. As to how DGR treats SS Officers, I have no comments. There are Major Generals and there are Major Generals. People can be good, bad and indifferent.
5. I will create a ruckus here by what I am going to write next. There is a distinct decline in the standards of ladies the officers end up marrying. Wives have become too ambitious and each one of them wants their husband to become a General. And what the ladies talk in the party, Army or Civilian, is purely a ladies prerogative. We as officers grew up respecting ladies and continue doing so even today.
6. Yes, officers are supposed to accompany ladies in a ‘Paltan’ whenever they visit regimental institutions, be it the Canteen or Mandir/Maszid/Gurudwara. For a young officer to accompany the ladies is a matter of honor and not ‘flattery’.
7. Whether an Army person works harder or a civilian is a debate that will carry on till cows come home. Sometimes just doing nothing for months at a height of over 18000 feet is more painful than to be working for 12 – 14 hours a day in an office. As long as one is doing his/her ‘Karma’, it is OK.
8. Bosses are bosses. Everyone abuses them. As the saying goes; A boss is like a nappy, always up your A** and always full of S***.
9. Your sense of belongingness to an organization can’t be judged by the Generals. It is your own ‘Zazbaa’ or ‘Consciousness’ that one must be answerable to. Period. Frankly speaking, I don’t know where my ‘Paltan’ is. It is in J&K. I don’t get very many letters too. This doesn’t make me less regimental. I believe in doing and through me I have ensured employment to few of my ex-servicemen. This is a bigger achievement than attending Annual Infantry Day Function where you discuss the same old stuff; I did this and that. I have three very close friends from Fauj days and am in regular touch with them.

Let me end with a true incident that happened in a Rajput ‘Paltan’ in 1980. My friend Colonel ABC (Retd), a JAT, was then a 2nd Lt. He is a thoroughbred ie Sainik School – NDA – IMA. Matlab ‘Niryaa Fauji’. Fauj ke ilawaa na kuchh aata thaa na jaan ne ki koshish kari. He happened to accompany his Commanding Officers wife and other ladies to the Unit Canteen. Even the 2nd in Command was present. The ladies were interested in buying bathing towels. As with most women, they took a long time selecting one. Our friend was getting fed up. He volunteered to help and started looking at a shelf where sanitary towels were stored. Those days it used to read ‘SANITARY TOWELS’ and NOT Napkins. Lo and behold, he went to the Commanding Officers wife and told her “Madam, why do you want to buy these towels when you have SANITARY TOWELS”. He actually did not know what the Sanitary Towels were meant for. Even after all this, nothing happened to him. No one spoiled his ACR and he took premature retirement as a Colonel.

If given another shot at life, I shall again join the Army and serve in INFANTRY.

Regards,

JS Malik

 

[rameshlakra]

Gone through all the comments, what i feel that we are bit drifting from the topic as its not about how is life in army or quality of officers or comparison of officers in view of the type of commission in service.............Guys its about post release privileges. Like my old buddy Manjeet i also cherish my bond with my paltan, my COs & my units officrs,JCOs & men. I also wish all my units officers & ladies on the b'days & anni.I was in my unit last few months back only on the raising & lt me it was some memorable stay......but here we are not talking about service conditions or life of an officer during the stay in Army. I firmly believe that as an organization army is THE BEST & no other organization is somewhere near to it............Here we are talking about disparity in status of officers post release.
Tewatia sir i am in full agreement with what you say...we all are brother officers while in service but my point is that why that brotherhood vanishes once officer like me & Manjeet hang their uniforms. Why can't we contribute & avail the facility of ECHS, why we are not considered part of the same fraternity & denied to feel connected to the organization by the means of members of various institutes. Sir, pl understand the point which i am trying to bring out.....That EVEN IF WE HAVE SERVED FOR 5/10 YEARS...DOES THAT MAKES CIVILIAN BY HEART ALSO???????THE ANSWER IS BIG NO. Here i would like to mention one of my commanding Officer who always treated me as his son & his lady wife always said & treated my wife as their "Bahu" & we are maintaining that close relationship till date. He mentioned once to me that "SON, ONCE A FAUZI ALWAYS A FAUZI". And i am sure all of us are living with that feel in our hearts. But when we ask for some welfare from the prestigious organization like DGR, then an officer of the level of Maj. General who was DG at that time says that "you guys come for GUEST APPEARENCES & go then why should we consider you"...YOU KNOW TEVATIA SIR THESE THINGS HURTS....That’s why i mentioned that there is a disparity. That why i say that prime of one's life that is youth is given to organization/nation & then he is left like he never belonged to them..you know like doodh main se makhii...WHY..........????? Are we somehow less than our counterparts in anyway......Sir i am asking you why DGR has removed empanelment of SS Officers from Toll Plaza & Coal Transportation schemes????? & recently i came to know that our so called policy makers are planning to remove SS Officers from security agency empanelment too.........Do we deserve that treatment??????? Let me make one thing here very clear that its not about money at all as most of us are doing exceptionally well in corporate & fully satisfied, but.........SIR ITS JUST ABOUT MINDSET OF OUR TOPBRASS TOWARDS US & ABOUT OUR SENSE OF BELONGINGNESS TO THE FAUZ.
As regards to resettlement courses & benefits....who needs it more????..(With all due regards sir) An officer who comes out of Defence in his thirties with a family to look after with small kids for whom he has to plan for their education & settlement in life....OR an officer who has served for 20-25 years, kids are settled, he has done away with all his responsibility, with good post retirement facilities & pension to suffice the basic needs of two old persons i.e. officer & his lady wife.........................Pl think over it.

WHY WE ARE NOT CONSIDERED AS PART OF THE SAME FATERNITY WHEN WE ALL HAVE SERVED IN OLIVE GREEN....DURATION MAY BE LESS BUT DOES THAT SUCH A STRONG & VALID REASON TO PUT EX-SS OFFICERS IN DUSTBIN...GUYS WE ALSO LOVE THE ORGANIZATION AS MUCH YOU ALL DO........DOES IT NOT FAIR ON THE ORGANIZATION'S PART ALSO THAT IT SHOULD MAKE US FEEL THAT WE ARE FOR YOU TOO?????????????????????????????????????

Praveer U have some very valid points. Grasping which, what i could make out is that a few people (DGR) have decided on their own, to take these decision which appears to be wrong prima facie. What i would recommend is either a RTI asking who and on what basis these decision have been taken and thereafter filing a court case based on the same. Let me apprise u of an RTI regarding AWWA which had set a lot of things right a few month back. An ex. aggrieved SSC officer had filed that after being denied the information.

 

[raj2rif]

Identity: Most People want to have!!!

Dear uncle!I respect your opinion but still i am not really convinced(may be its because you can't get to know about one organization completely unless you work within).My views din't seem true to you but unfortunately even if its not the real picture but still quite close to it.You said Commanding officer is the father figure in the battalion(I am sure when you were young you may have given respect to ur senior officers),but if we talk about present scenario then its not the case anymore.Bachelor officers use worst of the abuses for CO(i hope you are not shocked to read this).You are right commanding officer needs to work alot and has to take care of every little issue within unit.CO wants to show that unit is working efficiently under his supervision and to prove it,he makes young officers suffer for it most of the times(I dont want to elaborate as again its related to organizing parties).Army is one organization where hard work really can't be defined as army officers can be assigned any kind job to do(right from serving motherland as a brave soldier to organizing parties like event manager).So its a complicated issue to discuss.As i said flattery exists in the organization.It really does.Had u been one of those kinds you would have never replied to my post but my bad luck was that u r not one of them and u read it Now as everyone(including you) think that my mindset is just an outcome of my presence in a couple of parties.Here i would like to mention that i have a couple of friends and relatives who are in army.To be very honest they have depicted the present picture of the army.Here again i would like to mention that i am not talking about 4 or 5 serving officers but so many i m in touch with and all are posted in different parts of country.So we can't say that its an opinion made by a couple of individuals.Had that been the case then number of serving officers willing to chuck army wudn't have been so high.This is a proof in itself that there's something unplesant within Army.Something ugly which is not visible to civilians.

Dear Deepika,

I like people who want to express themselves and honest about their views and discussion. We all have different opinions, and that is what makes the world so exciting place. Don’t worry whether or not I am one of those types or whether or not, I read. Col Malik has answered some of the points probably more clearly than I did, and hopefully, it might have given some idea to you about the difference between respect and flattery.

During this discussion, I never tried to convince you about anything. All that I wanted to convey here what is truth and what is a half information. If you are not convinced, that is fine, I am not a priest and I don’t believe in converting non believers into believers. That is the reason of the heading above: Most people want to have their “IDENTITY”, I would have written “All” but then restrained for we can find exceptions.

Regarding present breed of officers not respecting their “Commanding Officers”? I think that is their own problem. A commanding officer is accountable for everything that happens in his unit, irrespective of his presence at the incident or not. No matter who does it, he is the overall fault commander. The buck stops there. Now if you have that kind of accountability, then you have to be demanding. How many of us like a demanding boss. There is a famous quote by Napoleon, and I did try to practice it during my career.

“Treat your troops like horses, ride them hard in the battlefield, and look after them in Stables.”

Unfortunately, most human beings follow the path of least resistance. Most of the soldiers like only the second part of the quote. I always told my officers and I quote:

“I can give you only two things, one a good ACR, two vacations whenever you need it”. But then I also clarified, that “you have to earn it”. I am believe, that if you really want to harm someone, give him something for free. It is precisely because of this reason, I am against the reservations. Let merit alone decide the outcome. Give them equal platform to compete. All these ideas can be disputed, so be it.

Now some thing about experience. We judge our experience with the exposure we have. Sometimes we unknowingly we do overrate ourselves. This is human, and there is nothing wrong with that. One of my colleague does not want to do any business with Doctors and Computer Professionals. He says that both these breeds think that they know everything, they analyze each subject in greatest details and at the end of it are unable to make a decision (the action that alone matters in a professional relationship). How right or wrong he may be, is subject to perception of each individual. As I said that we all have our views, we must respect each other’s perspective. By reading couple of books on health care, one does not become physician, similarly by reading one odd book on programming one does not become a programmer and the list goes on. As I said earlier, most people are pretty authentic about subject matter and can convince most who don’t know the subject. Those are the kind of people in social gatherings who are most talkative and perhaps most liked and sometimes even most admired. Most people get impressed with their knowledge of the subject and the confidence with which they express themselves thereby making others believe in the authenticity of their views. More often than not, the truth is something more than that. Little research may reveal the shallowness of the knowledge and may change once perception by 180 degrees. But all these things are again depend on perception.

Most of us try to exaggerate things, to sell them to others. That is what media does. Most of us are in the business of selling. I recruit people. I see most of the resumes are extremely padded. But then those are the resume, who put the candidate for in front of the recruiter.

What I intend to convey here is that “Flattery” is not the deciding factor in affairs military. Trust me, the senior officers are not as stupid as they look to be to the people who don’t have access to the circumstances under which they operate. It is true for most of the organization. Higher you go in the organization, more difficult the task becomes. What most people look at is the perks alone, not the accountability part of it. Usually, other’s perks and own responsibilities are the subject of most discussions.

 

[captmanjeet]

Col Malik

The SS officer as you have mentioned is availing disability pension and that is the why he is entitled for ECHS. The only criteria for a soldier to be entitled for ECHS are his PPO. If he is gets any pension then only he is entitled for the benefits.

Parveer:

I agree with you that there is disparity especially when an ex SS officer is dealing with army again as ex SS officer. Be it DGR (Director General Resettlement), some club membership or any other post retirement benefits. But you will agree with me it is some individuals who do all this because of their own vested interests and we must have time and patience to give back to them.

Relax buddy it is our fight and we will take it on as when required.

Deepika: You have taken this topic to different tangent...