Getting married in same caste..

Thanks for bringing it up. Else discussion would ve been one quarter.

Even I am known to a Jat boy who is married to a Chamar girl, who is an IAS(IRS-Batch 07).

At Harvard/MIT only high IQ people get admission. IQ is the basic criteria. Societal dominance can't be alone achieved with higher IQ though a life full of luxary could be.

Now my question back to your question is :- Does IQ trump everything? Does IQ trump genetic superiority gained through centuries of evolution?

And it was hard for me to believe and accept but in realistic day to day world Jaati is by birth. Genetics is next to the God. Nature hardly cares for an IIT/MIT/Harvardian or a school drop out when it comes to survival endurance and longeivity. Life is a practical joke thrown at humanity by God.

I am not sure if I understand the relevance of points made by you. Sunil has nicely explained the logical fallacy of this argument. But my question is what's the relevance of societal dominance in a marriage? Before marriage, do people really go about thinking--- hmm, if I marry this person, I am going to really dominate the masses. Yeah, maybe in medieval history where kings made marital alliances to increase their sphere of influence. Maybe, some really "driven" people still do this. But what's the relevance to average Joginder?

And then if you genuinely want to choose a genetically superior mate, then I am afraid you are going about it in a completely wrong way. I mean, if you are really serious about it, you should get a full DNA mapping of your prospective partner apart from a comprehensive health assesment. Because the jati tag is no guarantee for anything. It has been scientifically proved that more than 99% of genetic makeup of all human beings is the same- derived from the first set of homosapiens in Africa. The 1% difference can account for lots of differences- from eye color to height and what not. But this 1% is then not some constant over a set of people like a jati. DNA mappings reveal totally surprising results- like some guy in Africa whose no known ancestor ever stepped out of Africa- had some Western European genes. In a geography like Northwest India that has seen all sorts of people come and go (I mean we still don't know if Jats came from somewhere or were natives), it'd be a bit naive to assume genetic superiority without checking.

And don't get me wrong. It is possible that "on average" Jats may have some genetically desirable traits. Afterall, we see a lot of Jats doing well in Sports. But "on average" is a very dangerous term. Like I may throw 9 BPL people and Mukesh Ambani in a room and say that the average wealth of this room is 5 billion dollars (Just making up numbers- 50 billion for mukesh, 0 for others. 50 divided bv 10 is 5). But if you randomly have to choose a partner from there, then 90% chance is that you will end up with a BPL person. This is an exaggerated example. I hope the chances within Jats is much better (;)), but point is you can't really know just from jati. You need to get it tested. Otherwise, it'd be a tad foolish to leave a person with known superior IQ or known good looks or known whatever just on the belief of unproven genetic superiority because of jati.
 
I think this theory "Marriage in same caste" came when there were disputes in tribes. Very old time. So every tribe wants to be more powerful.

In current time, this is not relevance (mostly), we can make our decisions about our life. Somewhat I think, what is missing the experience in youth. All old rules of society are made with high wisdom, and to save our identity. I believe in wisely said line "Love is blind" and thus divorce is common in now a days.

I have personal belief that love is two types. 1. @ first site, 2nd, habitual.

What mostly accepted in youth is first site and most of compatibility is over looked. When it comes to individual decision, as they have made in love marriage, family comes after the individuals. In arrange marriage, they have habitual love (more stable, I believe.) and responsibly of two families, as a social person.

I personally believe that attitude and skill which we have in our blood (called interests), should be seen major criteria rather then caste.
 
I am not sure if I understand the relevance of points made by you. Sunil has nicely explained the logical fallacy of this argument. But my question is what's the relevance of societal dominance in a marriage? Before marriage, do people really go about thinking--- hmm, if I marry this person, I am going to really dominate the masses. Yeah, maybe in medieval history where kings made marital alliances to increase their sphere of influence. Maybe, some really "driven" people still do this. But what's the relevance to average Joginder?

And then if you genuinely want to choose a genetically superior mate, then I am afraid you are going about it in a completely wrong way. I mean, if you are really serious about it, you should get a full DNA mapping of your prospective partner apart from a comprehensive health assesment. Because the jati tag is no guarantee for anything. It has been scientifically proved that more than 99% of genetic makeup of all human beings is the same- derived from the first set of homosapiens in Africa. The 1% difference can account for lots of differences- from eye color to height and what not. But this 1% is then not some constant over a set of people like a jati. DNA mappings reveal totally surprising results- like some guy in Africa whose no known ancestor ever stepped out of Africa- had some Western European genes. In a geography like Northwest India that has seen all sorts of people come and go (I mean we still don't know if Jats came from somewhere or were natives), it'd be a bit naive to assume genetic superiority without checking.

And don't get me wrong. It is possible that "on average" Jats may have some genetically desirable traits. Afterall, we see a lot of Jats doing well in Sports. But "on average" is a very dangerous term. Like I may throw 9 BPL people and Mukesh Ambani in a room and say that the average wealth of this room is 5 billion dollars (Just making up numbers- 50 billion for mukesh, 0 for others. 50 divided bv 10 is 5). But if you randomly have to choose a partner from there, then 90% chance is that you will end up with a BPL person. This is an exaggerated example. I hope the chances within Jats is much better (;)), but point is you can't really know just from jati. You need to get it tested. Otherwise, it'd be a tad foolish to leave a person with known superior IQ or known good looks or known whatever just on the belief of unproven genetic superiority because of jati.

Well said Kapil (and Sunil).
 
I personally know a jat girl married to a chamar who is a Phd from MIT.
BTW, dhed jaati/janam se bante hai yaa karm se?
You don't know this..how funny you are? hahaha............By the way, How long you have been in India or particularly how close to your ancestors and village?
 
:)......Is name calling and dissrespecting accomplishments of others part of our ancestors and villages?
You don't know this..how funny you are? hahaha............By the way, How long you have been in India or particularly how close to your ancestors and village?
 
Well what i got from this long discussion is some how your status and qualification also matters, if your lover is earning good have a good status,then i think parents will think..is it so?
 
Well what i got from this long discussion is some how your status and qualification also matters, if your lover is earning good have a good status,then i think parents will think..is it so?

Not necessarily, but if they get convinced that the choice is good and the person comes from well-to-do family they might rethink. It all depends on the parents' priority list; it may be looks, education, family status, caste etc. However, the best thing in those cases is to talk to the parents directly on the pros and cons of the alliance and should be ready to accept their decision. As parents also have dreams for their children, and we should not let them down. Our parents will always think of our good and considering their experience of life, society and all, we should respect their decision.
 
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Well what i got from this long discussion is some how your status and qualification also matters, if your lover is earning good have a good status,then i think parents will think..is it so?

Where did you find in the discussion that status and qualification also matters? It is insignificant when the question is whether to go for inter-cast marriage or not. There may be some exceptional nerds (<2%) who may want to go for inter cast marriage, just because of qualification and/or status.

Most parents, having seen life through most of the stages, will seldom give much ado to such an argument. As per scientists, genetics contributes upto at least 50% (same scientist even claim it to be the single most thing) to a person's personality traits. Environment - both common and external, parents upbringing, education, etc. all combined contribute to <=50%. Search personality traits and genetics on google to read some detailed studies on the subject.

People had been saying this "sanskar hone chahiye, padhai likhai to bad ma bhi ho ja gi" for ages, science has proved it just recently.
 
Riya this might not be the case in all cases. My parents found a match for my younger sister. The guy wasn't extraordinarily handsome but he was smart enugh to mtch with my extremely beautiful sister. But he was very career oriented and established himself so well that none of our relatives has that kind of money and respect that he earned. He was no where near as good as compare to our family in that time and we never regretted to take that decision. Status and money can be earned if someone has a progressive approach and realistic goals to achieve.

Wish to add- My few first cousins who were married out of caste are lot happier than those who married in their OWN caste, both the boy n girl has to have enough respect to each others traditions and family values:)

Well what i got from this long discussion is some how your status and qualification also matters, if your lover is earning good have a good status,then i think parents will think..is it so?
 
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Hahaha !! .... itna jyaada soch vichaar. Soch vichaar karte karte umar nikal jaa gi ... jo badhiya lage uste byaah kar lo ...... baal ki khaal naa nikalya karein.
 
I think after going back and forth we are presenting the same facts in new packs.....it should be wise to conclude the discussion now by agreeing to the fact that the marrige is between 2 individuvals and their families and these are the people who can together make the best decision for all involved.
 
Hahaha !! .... itna jyaada soch vichaar. Soch vichaar karte karte umar nikal jaa gi ... jo badhiya lage uste byaah kar lo ...... baal ki khaal naa nikalya karein.

Sir ji aapki baat sahi hai......lekin apni north side me aapke vicharo k according koi ni chal sakta............
aapke in vicharo se apni Doga Brigade jo apne aap ko samaj rakshak bolti hai, vo ye baat samajh jye ki jo jise pasand kare shadi kar lo, to kuch bhala ho logo ka.
lekin aaj k time me jo bina caste dekhe apni marzi se shadi karta hai uske liye daily khap panchayat hoti hain aur last me jaan le k e picha chode hain.
 
Hahaha !! .... itna jyaada soch vichaar. Soch vichaar karte karte umar nikal jaa gi ... jo badhiya lage uste byaah kar lo ...... baal ki khaal naa nikalya karein.


aaj k time me north side me bimari, accident etc se kam mare hain lekin ye owner killing te jyda mare hain........

agar kuch ho sakta hai to is owner killing case ko puri tarah se khatam karna chahiye.......
is kaam me itne couples mare hain, fir bhi har dusre teesre din ek aur case samne aaja hai, Doga Brigade apna zor lari se aur ye youth couples apna zor la re hain........
aage bera na aur k k hoga...... per is kaam te pura system kharab ho liya.
 
..it should be wise to conclude the discussion now by agreeing to the fact that the marrige is between 2 individuvals and their families and these are the people who can together make the best decision for all involved.

Well, at least in present scenario, marriage is a social affair for most people. If people want to make it a personal affair, then they should have the marriage function also as a private function. The problem is with some people who wants to sail on two boats by mixing the personal and community affairs.

Community is a group of the people, formed by the people. It is not a pool from where people can keep on drawing without contributing themselves. Unlike west, where their is good social security, community plays a lot greater role in India. Adopting an individualist approach, like western countries, is not a very viable approach in the current circumstances.

People are free not to follow the customs of a community, but then. it makes their moral responsibility that in that case they do not use the name of community for their personal gains.
 
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aaj k time me north side me bimari, accident etc se kam mare hain lekin ye owner killing te jyda mare hain........

agar kuch ho sakta hai to is owner killing case ko puri tarah se khatam karna chahiye.......

Agar aap kuch chote mote incidents ko itna pada rai ka pahad bana doge to aap samsya ko khatam karne ki bajaye badha rahe ho. The issue has been highlighted by media to bash the khap system and to divert people's attention from main issues which are corruption and bad governance. Why is media not following the cases of rapes, murder, fake encounters, environment exploitation, rising prices, food adulteration to the extent that it report these honour killings? Is it just for bashing the khap system or something else?

Since media itself is a part of and getting benefited from these much bigger social evils, it is choosing smaller, insignificant things to cover them up.
 
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Well, at least in present scenario, marriage is a social affair for most people. If people want to make it a personal affair, then they should have the marriage function also as a private function. The problem is with some people having narrow thinking and think of themselves as too smart to use and discard the community at will.

Community is a group of the people, formed by the people. It is not a pool from where people can keep on drawing without contributing themselves. Unlike west, where their is good social security, community plays a lot greater role in India. Adopting an individualist approach, like western countries, is not a very viable approach in the current circumstances.

People are free not to follow the customs of a community, but then. it makes their moral responsibility that in that case they do not use the name of community for their personal gains.


Hi Arvind,
If you may read my response with little more depth and open mind you will find that I have mentioned both the individuals and their respective family coming to concensus. If all these parties involved come to concensus of going ahead with the marriage there are less chances of mistakes in the sense that the parents will consider bigger picture which the children might have not taken into consideration and that involves the question on society and community.
 
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Hi Arvind,
If you may read my response with little more depth and open mind you will find that I have mentioned both the individuals and their respective family coming to census. If all these parties involved come to census of going ahead with the marriage there are less chances of mistakes in the sense that the parents will consider bigger picture which the children might have not taken into consideration and that involves the question on society and community.

Shibani Ji, thanks for the elucidation! I got your point now.
 
riyaa ji nu batayo...aapke gel kimme rola ho rha hai kya shaadi byaah ka....Manne laage hai aapne koi dusri caste ka pasand kar rakhya se

Agar issi baat hai to Uncle Aunty ne aade JL pe register karwa do...Saare PM kar kar ke wo ladka pasand karwa hi denge

RAM RAM
 
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