HC stops Jat Mahapanchayat

[deepshi]

nope. dont get ur wires crossed!!

me nt an egghead n comparatively- green,, still stating wot i felt, nthin 'pathetic' here
actually dis goes 4 both d gals as well as guys,, i equally condemn boys contaminating their bloodlines.
if i had my druthers, i wud hv made mandatory nt marryin in chamars n low castes, both guys n gals

 

[kharub]

I consider my self a liberal .... but a conservative liberal .... and my dear friends i have been living and witnessing these things in Europe and Australia quite closely , i am and have been for the last 8 years living with Europeans and i have had negligible contact with Indians in all this time ..... my society, friend circle, work everything is european .... ya in Australia i had a few friends from Rohtak , but in Europe i am completely a part of the European social fabric ...


So dont you dismiss me as a backward, illitrate, neglected Jat - I am living it, I am seeing it and I believe it ...... These views are not as a result of ignorance and backwardness ........ but these views are as a result of observance and close study of the demise of liberal socities ....

Your identity makes you who you are - without it you are a nobody

 

[ratheetheraist]

wt to say now.........

My dear friend ... i like your sarcasm , its very refreshing ........

I have a logic for my beliefs .. and I dont go on stating things before i dont evaluate them form my perspective (and it is strictly my perspetive, you dont have to agree with it , but you can always try to point out the weakness in my argument)


1. A jat marrying a Chamari would be a similar case, but a less severe offence , just becasue as stated in the previous post , the Chamarness willl be diluted and the kid will be more Jat than a chamar ......

2. It will not be such a grave issue just because the plain fact is that we dont have enough females in the Jat community for all the Jat boys so if they marry outside teh caste and bring the girls in to Jat families and TAKE EVERY MEASURE TO MAKE SURE THAT THESE WOMEN ADAPT TO THE JAT SOCIETY AND THAT THE OFFSPRINGS ARE DEFINATELY WELL VERSER WITH JATS CUSTOMS ... with no hint of their mother's ethnicity or culture , then it is okay

and my argument is not totally emotionally charged , it is based on logic and historical facts ....

man it means tht u living in london nd stillu believe in the differences based on caste......... thts strange........... u calling it a crime frst nd thn u satisfing ur ego by saing if our fellow brother does it ... its a crime of low frequence..... nd if done by a jatni thn she shall b hanged or stoned till death.........

forget abt the history when we cant see the loss of humanity here killing the grl nd her luv ruthlessly....

 

[panward]

The remarks, I am sorry to say, are terribly fuedal and sexist.
A jat male can sleep around with anybody and everybody -- even forcibly at times -- while a female has no right of marrying someone of her choice!

The child, in your example, will have no dilemma of that sort 'coz
he's born in a family where mother doesn't have a misplaced sense of pride while father is shorn of any inferiority complex.

IN the third point you want to strike the balance by saying we should give Chamars equility but at the same time we should save our gene pool. Buddy, how will you ensure that people mingle but not 'mix' together.

And which Great Europe are you boasting of. The same white ba****ds, who wrote Indians and dogs are not allowed! Or those who carried out mass murders in the name of racial superiority.

Dost this superior-inferior thing is very tricky. If I say I am superior to someone then I am letting myself vulnerable to be proved inferior to some other.

Marriage, lastly, is private affair and no one, and I mean no one has a right to poke nose in others affairs. These panchayats more often than not trouble economically backward families to assert their authority. Had there been an influential family which would have done the same, I am sure they would not have pointed a finger.

1. Yes marrying Chamars will loose our identity in the long run - if this coupel have a kid, he will claim himself to be part Jat , which is right because the mother is Jat , but he is not , he will be raised in a Chamar household, with their habbits and social manners and customs , - and if these things keep on going, we will have a lot of so called Jats but actually Chamars in our clan and thus we will loose our identity and ethnic purity ..........
If it was a Jat boy marrying a Chamar girl the matter would have been less serious as the kids would grow up in a Jat household they will be more JAT


3. I am not in no way that Chamars are not our brothers or they are inferiour to us - I never said that . I firmly believe in eqality
But eqality and identity and ethnicity are different things my friends - dont consider them all as the same thing.
we are equal , but we are different too , so while not having any prejudice, lets keep our identity intact and our ethnicity pure.
We need to recognise and appreciate any achievement by Charmars or anyone else, they are also people - mixing blood does not mean equality , it just means impurity

4. Liberal ideas like this have spelled an end to the Great Europe - Europe is dying , its declining because of just such ideas.
30% of under 5 in France are of North African and Turkish Origin even though that polulation is only 5 % ...... why ???

Because they preserve their identity where as the French marry into these ethnic minorities and loose their frenchness but acquire a Moroccan or Turkish identity. and the statistics alone suggest and it will not be long when these minorities will become majority.

WE ARE ALL EQUAL , BUT WE ARE DIFFERENT AT THE SAME TIME AND OUR DIFFERENCES MAKE US UNIQUE .... THEY MAKE US JATS ... AND THATS WHAT IS VALUABLE TO US TO PRESERVE OURSELVES CULTURALLY AND ETHNICALLY ..............

Did that Help ?????

 

[deepshi]

wires double crossed!!

the words highlighted in blue is nt about bein a sexist or a male chauvinism, its more f biological, paternity n contribution in producing a child of sum1s bloodline!!

 

[kharub]

man it means tht u living in london nd stillu believe in the differences based on caste......... thts strange........... u calling it a crime frst nd thn u satisfing ur ego by saing if our fellow brother does it ... its a crime of low frequence..... nd if done by a jatni thn she shall b hanged or stoned till death.........

forget abt the history when we cant see the loss of humanity here killing the grl nd her luv ruthlessly....

Mate who said anything about killing ????? Did i say anything about killing somebody

I am being logical in my arguments ... so debate me .. dont twist my words and use logic to defend or criticise

Yes i firmly believe in ethicity and tribe .. yes .... i dont belive that one caste is better than other

I would liek to state again if you have not understood it rightly after repeated statements - ALL SOCIAL AND ETHIC GROUPS , WHETHER BELONGING TO LOW CASTE OR HIGH CASTE ARE SAME
THERE IS NOTHING HIGH CASTE OR LOW CASTE ... BUT THERE IS DIFFERENT CASTES .. AND THESE DIFFERENCES SHOULD BE PRESERVED WITHOUT ANY SOCIAL INEQALITY ...... BECASCE THESE DIFFERENCES ARE THE VERY IDENTITY OF ANY TRIBE or GROUP of PEOPLE ........ WIHTHOUT THESE DIFFERENCES ... WE HAVE NO IDENTITY ...... IF THERE ARE NO DIFFERENCES AMONG CATSES ...THEN WHAT IS A JAT THEN ????????

WHY THE HELL ARE YOU ON JATLAND ...... ????????????????

Your new found liberalism is a sign of a new bird flight out the cage ..... you are trying to be liberal to prove that you are not a backward Jat and you are filled with neo-liberal ideas about equality and freedom ....

You are just running away from your rural rigid jat society and potray yourself as modern ................

I am not facing any similar dilema, My beliefs have formed after a close observation .. a first hand close observation of one THE MOST liberal society in the world ....

Where as your ideas are a result of you fight against yourself (where you have come from and what you are trying to be)

 

[rekharathee]

here i fully agree wid each and every thought of VJ Kharub,

u can blame it on my upbringing in d way that i am tought d same or my personal thinking that there is no match between chamaars or lowercast and jats

 

[kharub]

The remarks, I am sorry to say, are terribly fuedal and sexist.
A jat male can sleep around with anybody and everybody -- even forcibly at times -- while a female has no right of marrying someone of her choice!

The child, in your example, will have no dilemma of that sort 'coz
he's born in a family where mother doesn't have a misplaced sense of pride while father is shorn of any inferiority complex.

IN the third point you want to strike the balance by saying we should give Chamars equility but at the same time we should save our gene pool. Buddy, how will you ensure that people mingle but not 'mix' together.

And which Great Europe are you boasting of. The same white ba****ds, who wrote Indians and dogs are not allowed! Or those who carried out mass murders in the name of racial superiority.

Dost this superior-inferior thing is very tricky. If I say I am superior to someone then I am letting myself vulnerable to be proved inferior to some other.

Marriage, lastly, is private affair and no one, and I mean no one has a right to poke nose in others affairs. These panchayats more often than not trouble economically backward families to assert their authority. Had there been an influential family which would have done the same, I am sure they would not have pointed a finger.

I like debating you mate .... its always fun and informative ....

Who said Europe is superior ??? I quoted Europe as an example of a dying society and not because it is superior .. and the reason why i emphasised the fact that i am living as a part and parcel of European society was for you to understnad, that i am very familiar with your liberal views and i see then in action everyday and i also see the consequences of them ...

I am not superior to anybody in any way .... we all live because our heart pumps blood in our veins and that day that stops we all die .... so there is no question of being superior or inferior ......

And Europe in general and Scandanavia in particular is the most liberal society in the world today my friend - without any doubt

and please read me ... understand me and dont misquote me

I come from a Jat family which has highly educated and profesionally distinguished females, who have broken the glass ceiling and are super achievers , My Mother , My aunties .................. so dont you dare label me a sexist ......

My views are totally rational and not biased - my beliefs are based on social and historical facts

And if its a case of Inter - cast marrige , the panchayats do have a role to play - Marrige is a private affair , but inter-caste marrige is a social affair , as it sets the future social trends

Dont debate me just because you want to be against me ..........

 

[deepshi]

HOUSTON,,,,V have a problem here !

at d risk f sounding obstinste, n gettin crucified..( dont lose ur rags guys!)
still i wanna state sumthin practical
even i was high-headed earlier, of castes n creeds bein equal, guys n gals, bt now i when i faced it practically-differences do exizt
wen a father gets his daughter married, it scares d s*** outta him( moreso if he luvs her a lot)
wot my dad says is - he cant let her daughter marry into jus about any1, coz she wl hv to embrace whole f his culture, traditions, n whole family- alongwid d hubby
bt ib case of a son- he has left him loose- coz d arriving gal wud b the main concern n its SHE who has to conform herself to the surroundings n paddle her own canoe,,
i had mistook it as differentiation, bt after thinkin practically, he is right.....
v indians........

 

[deepshi]

n regardin the differences not being honest....

i dont hv any axe to grind here!

 

[ratheetheraist]

hmm........

Dont debate me just because you want to be against me ..........

hey vj.... listen bro... i don want to b against u....... nd y shall i......... i damn care abt tht.......arr tu kunsa meri jhotti kholl ke le gyaa jo main tere aginst jhanda thaaunga .......

now u keep on sain tht marryin a SC boy by a JAT GIRL is a superior offence nd its obvious tht we r alws ready to punish the grl who does so...... so its tht killing wt i m saing........ its not although related to ur quotes or wtever........ who cares abt tht wt u r quoting or nt........... bt my view is jus a general one okk...... not against u....... now u plz dont start saing tht i havnt said this n tht y r u saing this.........

and yeah the thing is tht i m here standing the thought nd acts of jats who r so straight forward in taking decisions to kill their daughters nd sisters jus after they gt to know tht she has married a SC boy........

nd on the other side if their son does so.... they r like chalta hai chaudhary saab....... ibb ikklauta chora thaa ka kartey.... ghar tee kaadha bhi tee naa jaamtaa......... ARR JAAT KEE BYAAH HOEE PAACHEE TEE CHORRII AAPEE EE JAATNI HO JAAGI............

jus tell me if m wrong here........... nd forget abt personal quotes nd unquotes .........

nd yes if u really feel m wrong here thn yeah i m happy being wrong like this nd will do wtever i cud to stop this misshappening in our society.....

nd yes vj u also said tht i m trying to become modern out here......... haah.... is thinking like this states me modern in ny context... aree do we really need to prove how much jatism is inside us or abt my family how closely we r related to this community JAT........

brother ..... thinking of a jat girl in such situation is i think a jus part of my concern to b called as jat..... AND OBVIOUSLY A GOOD REASON TO TELL U Y THE HELL I M HERE ON JATLAND..........

being on jatland nd shouting all the time we r jats ... we will do this n tht for our community n all ....... wee need to look into ourselves nd see wt actually we can do towards tht feeling of helping nd doing something for the JAT community...........

I THINK IF U CAN GIVE A JAT GIRL WHO IS LET LIVE HER LIFE WHO MADE HER MIND TO SPEND HER LIFE WITH SMONE SHE THOUGHT RIGHT THEN I THINK ITS A REAL HELP U CAN DO TO BRING THIS FEELING OF JATISM FORWARD........

 

[chhillar]

Mere ko pata nahin ye baat kab samajh mein ayegi ke everybody is not equal arr bhagwan ne sab ko alag alag banaya he. I think I should take some classes from some of these superior race people and unlearn the concept of 'Equality' all together .....putting others castes dowm arr wo bhi khulam khulla..wa bhai bhai!!!

 

[kharub]

hey vj.... listen bro... i don want to b against u....... nd y shall i......... i damn care abt tht.......arr tu kunsa meri jhotti kholl ke le gyaa jo main tere aginst jhanda thaaunga .......

now u keep on sain tht marryin a SC boy by a JAT GIRL is a superior offence nd its obvious tht we r alws ready to punish the grl who does so...... so its tht killing wt i m saing........ its not although related to ur quotes or wtever........ who cares abt tht wt u r quoting or nt........... bt my view is jus a general one okk...... not against u....... now u plz dont start saing tht i havnt said this n tht y r u saing this.........

and yeah the thing is tht i m here standing the thought nd acts of jats who r so straight forward in taking decisions to kill their daughters nd sisters jus after they gt to know tht she has married a SC boy........

nd on the other side if their son does so.... they r like chalta hai chaudhary saab....... ibb ikklauta chora thaa ka kartey.... ghar tee kaadha bhi tee naa jaamtaa......... ARR JAAT KEE BYAAH HOEE PAACHEE TEE CHORRII AAPEE EE JAATNI HO JAAGI............

jus tell me if m wrong here........... nd forget abt personal quotes nd unquotes .........

nd yes if u really feel m wrong here thn yeah i m happy being wrong like this nd will do wtever i cud to stop this misshappening in our society.....

nd yes vj u also said tht i m trying to become modern out here......... haah.... is thinking like this states me modern in ny context... aree do we really need to prove how much jatism is inside us or abt my family how closely we r related to this community JAT........

brother ..... thinking of a jat girl in such situation is i think a jus part of my concern to b called as jat..... AND OBVIOUSLY A GOOD REASON TO TELL U Y THE HELL I M HERE ON JATLAND..........

being on jatland nd shouting all the time we r jats ... we will do this n tht for our community n all ....... wee need to look into ourselves nd see wt actually we can do towards tht feeling of helping nd doing something for the JAT community...........

I THINK IF U CAN GIVE A JAT GIRL WHO IS LET LIVE HER LIFE WHO MADE HER MIND TO SPEND HER LIFE WITH SMONE SHE THOUGHT RIGHT THEN I THINK ITS A REAL HELP U CAN DO TO BRING THIS FEELING OF JATISM FORWARD........

Social trends dictate social trends ..... we have a lack of women in our community due to female fetocite - A Crime of the gravest kind
Therefore there is some justification for a jat guy marrying an outsider - purely based on social reasons - not emotional, not sexist, not equality - Just a purely social reason - otherwise we need to start wife sharing ...

And the personal freedom is not superior to the social cause - If they have married then the society should use its influence to undo that mistake ....

But if they are firm on their decision , they should be outcasted and be expelled form the social framework ...

You cannot go on aginst the societal rules and then think you will be welcome in the social mainfold with warmth ......... The choice is individual

Confer to social norms or be outcasted - you cannot have the best of both worlds.

Killing is not justified - unless an expceptional reason (child sex abuse, rape+murder, harming national interest etc)

But people who want to go against the society must also be ready to face social expultion ...... Society is superior to personal wants ....

Supporting something that is against the Jat Clan and society is not Jatism my friend - its a liberal policy of appeasement

 

[ritu]

oh my god kya justification h jat caste k bahr jaata h to social reason h er jaatni jaati hto uuch neech saare chize saamne aajati h.
kya jaat kya chamar mujhe to sharam aarahi h itne pade likhe logo ko aisi baate karate dekh ker.karm h jo adami ko nicha banate h ya uppar uttathe h.
aise padelikho se to anpad behtar h er aisi soch wale jaato se chamar behtar h.ye do logo ki jindagi ka sawal h er samaj k thekadar kyu khamkah unki jindagi ka phasla kar rahe h
to hell with caste.when it comes to marriage compatibility is the only thing which matters.
chamar kya insaan nahi hote.

Social trends dictate social trends ..... we have a lack of women in our community due to female fetocite - A Crime of the gravest kind
Therefore there is some justification for a jat guy marrying an outsider - purely based on social reasons - not emotional, not sexist, not equality - Just a purely social reason - otherwise we need to start wife sharing ...

And the personal freedom is not superior to the social cause - If they have married then the society should use its influence to undo that mistake ....

But if they are firm on their decision , they should be outcasted and be expelled form the social framework ...

You cannot go on aginst the societal rules and then think you will be welcome in the social mainfold with warmth ......... The choice is individual

Confer to social norms or be outcasted - you cannot have the best of both worlds.

Killing is not justified - unless an expceptional reason (child sex abuse, rape+murder, harming national interest etc)

But people who want to go against the society must also be ready to face social expultion ...... Society is superior to personal wants ....

Supporting something that is against the Jat Clan and society is not Jatism my friend - its a liberal policy of appeasement

 

[narenderkharb]

I agree with deep sikha.

It is not a matter of male marrying out side or female doing so.

We love culture customs and values of our ancesstors and this is our heritage and identity.

On a personal note I don't want any dilution or contamination in that which is not based on superior or inferior but on a distinct identity others may have their own reasons to go for more mixing.

But it may lead to some strange combinations as ..

This site is reserved for jat churra hindus only.

Jai jat chmar killki taull..etc...etc.

 

[deepshi]

oops! v got it all fudged-up !

well, 1st set ur priorities right..
wot actually was d topic? was it about:-
1) rights f gals n boys
2) role f society in sum1s personal life
3)jat marryin a chamari or vice versa..

well, let me clarify- twas bout jat marryin in2 chamars
so talkin bout aforementioned points:-
1) GALS V/S BOYS
well, ritu babe, dont try 2 sound feminist, coz i despise them!
insecure ladies r feminists. y do v rant n reek bout d ladies bein exploited- it can b other way round too (well-jokin). in my opinion ppl deserve 2 b exploited only r exploited, n gettin exploited meekly is worse crime then exploiting itself!! so, insted f hemming n hawing, ladies must keep their chins up, live dignifiedly n harm none- NEVER BITCH! worst trait f ladies!!
2)ROLE F SOCIETY
i care 2 hoots bout dis goddamn society n al2gether shun it! feel m very unsocila.
ya society jib kit chali ja se jib kisse ki gellan bhundi bann jaa apney-apney khandwa me muu lakoo le sein- toye bi na paaawein - 2 hell wid it!
3) JATS MARRYIN CHAMARS- WELL, DIS BEIN D REAL TOPIC..
it has nthin 2 do wid societal presure, or man v/s woman
its bout keepin our identity + blood clean
that v r THIS!
Jats hv their own unique n distinct traits n nature, upbringing, traditions
so keep it distinct...
V HAVE NTHIN GOIN AGAINST CHAMARS, Latte dedyo- unne khaan peen ne de dyo, financially support kar dyo, has batlaa lyo- but dont bring them inside u!!!!
AS SIMPLE AS DAT!!

 

[balrajsejwal]

agreed with vj kharub and deepshika

yes, i am totally agreed with vj kharub statements, we (jaats) are the one of the most superior race of the world . the feeling of being a jaat is something speciall and by intercast marriage(with any body) as we are above of all casts will lead to loose our identity, feelings, power, pride , i am totally against this intercast marriage . i am also get bit surprized by reaction of some of my jaat brothers who talks in the favour of intercast marriage. in the end i want to say, exellent to mr vj kharub for his statements.

 

[ritu]

1) GALS V/S BOYS
well, ritu babe, dont try 2 sound feminist, coz i despise them!
insecure ladies r feminists. y do v rant n reek bout d ladies bein exploited- it can b other way round too (well-jokin). in my opinion ppl deserve 2 b exploited only r exploited, n gettin exploited meekly is worse crime then exploiting itself!! so, insted f hemming n hawing, ladies must keep their chins up, live dignifiedly n harm none- NEVER BITCH! worst trait f ladies!!
what r u trying to say here deepika i am not getting it.what u mean by saying ppl deserve to be exploited r exploited.in my opinion no body deserves to be exploited.i donot care what i am sounding like here.but i am a human being before jat.and i do not see any logic in separating a couple just because the husband is chamar thats it.now they r husband and wife before chamar and jaatni.
bebe blood t blood hi se chahe vo chamar ka ho chahe jat ka.I am not saying here that we should promote marriages like this.but no body has the right to separate a married couple.look at their lives.
for me humanity comes before any caste thats it.

 

[panward]

Who said Europe is superior ??? I quoted Europe as an example of a dying society and not because it is superior .. and the reason why i emphasised the fact that i am living as a part and parcel of European society was for you to understnad, that i am very familiar with your liberal views and i see then in action everyday and i also see the consequences of them ...

Read your previous post. You said "Great Europe". What was so great about them? Probably that, they undertook the "white man's burden" and liberated all of us from otherwise condemned lives!

and please read me ... understand me and dont misquote me...

I've no illusions about my intelligence and I admitted it in an earlier post. So I won't hesitate to say I find myself even more baffled every time I read you. Why? Just go through what you write:

1) I am a conservative-liberal (very convenient. Having best of both worlds, if I may quote you!)

2) Jaatni can not marry chamar in any case. Jat can marry chamari and it is an offence but an acceptable one.

3) I like debating you......... don't debate me just because you want to be against me (Another Bushism. If you are not with me, you are against me.)

4) My beliefs are based on social and historical fatcs. (The only fact you gave was the that French one where you lamented that those Frenchies were losing their "Frenchness" and what's their Frenchness? These very Frenchmen massacered millions in central and west Africa while it was under their subjugation! OK this was during imperialism but even in the 20th century, these Frenchies provoked genocide in Rawanda claiming another 800,000 people.)

I come from a Jat family which has highly educated and profesionally distinguished females, who have broken the glass ceiling and are super achievers , My Mother , My aunties .................. so dont you dare label me a sexist ......

Look Mr Hammu Rabi (since you are drafting codes of law for us here), I don't know you or your family neither am I interested in doing that. Read my post and you will find I said, "I am sorry to say these remarks (Attn)are terribly fuedal and sexist". I did not say that you are sexist, however, if you think the latter was implied, I am not sorry for that.

Your conviction in what you think is admirable but then I might have to admire Osama bin laden for what he thinks and does!

Lastly, I am happy that not everyone here on this site shares this neo-Nazi ideology and some are "neo liberals" like us.

On a personal note I don't want any dilution or contamination in that which is not based on superior or inferior but on a distinct identity others may have their own reasons to go for more mixing.

I have no problem with you agreeing to any one sir. And I am happy that you said, "On a personal note...." rather asserting and generalising your thoughts for the whole society. You are free to think and do what you like, at the same time I should be allowed to do what I damn well please.

yes, i am totally agreed with vj kharub statements, we (jaats) are the one of the most superior race of the world . the feeling of being a jaat is something speciall and by intercast marriage(with any body) as we are above of all casts will lead to loose our identity, feelings, power, pride , i am totally against this intercast marriage . i am also get bit surprized by reaction of some of my jaat brothers who talks in the favour of intercast marriage. in the end i want to say, exellent to mr vj kharub for his statements

I don't know who is mistaking and misquoting Kharub. He said he does not believe in superiority and inferiority. Leave it. Tell me five things which make us jats superior. I will give you ten which make us beast like.

May be the place you hail from has jats who have just descended from heaven. In my area, half the young guys of my community are only good at lasciviously leering and passing lewd remark at womanfolk while scratching their crotch in public.

Another 30 per cent or so are dropouts who haven't cleared matriculate exam despite several efforts and now roam around highways after dusk to carry out a theft or robbery.

I think, and I mn I think, it was a sensible decision on that girls part to go for a chamaar guy rather than going for one of those above mentioned types.

It is time for us stop taking ourselves too seriously and start looking our flaws which are there to be seen. May be then after some time, we would be able say, yes we are a good (not superior) community.

Regards
-Daksh

 

[vikaskundu]

inter caste marriage karni to nahi chaiye especailly to chamar...but it is an individuals decision......

"jab dil aya gadhe pe to chand kya cheez hai"