IIT/ IIM quotas: what You say?

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drrajpoonia

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Human Resources Minister Arjun Singh announced the government's intention to reserve 49 per cent seats in all government-regulated education institutions -- including IITs and IIMs.
The move, predictably, has set off a storm, since by bringing the IITs and IIMs under the quota raj, the government could well be compromising the regime of intellectual meritocracy these institutions set out to establish.
The government's plan could mean the end of a dream for many of you -- of obtaining a degree from India's premier educational institutions.
For many others, it could also be the beginning of a dream -- an opportunity to join the hallowed ranks composed of IIT-IIM graduates.
Either way, tell us what you think by filling out the box alongside. We will collect all your views till midnight of April 26 and forward them to Prime Minister Dr Manmohan Singh. This is your best chance to make yourself heard, and to make a difference!
 
drrajpoonia said:
Human Resources Minister Arjun Singh announced the government's intention to reserve 49 per cent seats in all government-regulated education institutions -- including IITs and IIMs.
The move, predictably, has set off a storm, since by bringing the IITs and IIMs under the quota raj, the government could well be compromising the regime of intellectual meritocracy these institutions set out to establish.
The government's plan could mean the end of a dream for many of you -- of obtaining a degree from India's premier educational institutions.
For many others, it could also be the beginning of a dream -- an opportunity to join the hallowed ranks composed of IIT-IIM graduates.
Either way, tell us what you think by filling out the box alongside. We will collect all your views till midnight of April 26 and forward them to Prime Minister Dr Manmohan Singh. This is your best chance to make yourself heard, and to make a difference!
Click to expand...

Bye Bye IITs and IIMs you were very good till you lasted, too bad you were a bit too good to become a sore in eyes of many. We will never forget you :(
 
mandal redux

The Governments decision to make 27% reservation for OBC's for educational institutions is deplorable. The decision will take the reservation quota to 49.5% (the maximum reservation that can lawfully be imposed) and in doing so will signal the death knell for thousands of hard working students who will miss out beacuse they are in the open quota. Years of politics over reservations and the rise of regional and national backward caste parties have ensured that the proposal to increase the reservation to nearly 50% was unanimous amongst the political class. The propsal which is said to have the blessings of the PM will end meritocracy (if there was any) to an age where caste decided your future. While many may argue that thousands of years of the caste system in India led to many bright Dalits and backward classes to suffer at the hands of upper castes, and now that the reverse is happening the upper caste controlled middle India is protesting. However, it is also true that the reservation system which was meant to benefit the poorest of the poor in the country have largerly been ignored in the humdrum of reservation politics. The plights of the SC/ST's and OBC in the Indian heartland remains the way it has been for eons. The same rigid fuedal system prevails in the villages and rural hinterland. The benefit of various reservation programmes have not benefitted these people but political parties and the so called “creamy layer” amongst the SC/ST's.
The messiah of the SC/ST's Lalloo Yadav after having ruled Bihar for 15 years on the pretext of making every poor Bihari self sufficient failed miserably and the condition of the people who got him to power more or less remains the same. A similar case in point is that of Mayawati, who after going after the Bahujan Samaj has now started courting the Brahmins and Thakurs in UP, not to help the caste she represents, but to ultimately grab the CM's chair from the other caste politics flip-flopper Mulayam Singh Yadav.
It is imperative that the Government avoid such policies in higher education and research and instead try to work on the economic and social conditions of the SC/ST's and OBC's. Of what use is reserving seats in institutes like the IIM's, IIT's and AIIMS when people in the villages do not even have access to basic education and healthcare. Surely, the benefits of such reservation policies will not affect the villages, instead it will help the creamy layer of the SC/ST's in towns and cities. Why should a person who has gotten through to a good college or say the Civil Services, through the quota, have his children avail the same benefits that he/she did? Will this not make the “well off” SC/ST's even better off while leaving the ones who need a push still way behind. isn't reservation politics making the divide between urban and rural backward classes even more acute?
The politicians don't seem to think so, they argue that it is required. This when the original idea behind the policy of reservations was meant for a period of ten years only. But the politicians want to woo the backward classes, as they form a sizeable chunk of the electorate, hence the complete silence from the Congress and the BJP on the issue (especially in a election year). The move will also start another brain drain of sorts, students who cannot get through to Indian universities will prefer to go abroad. This, in a day and age, when India is a rising power and is also shifting towars a knowledge based society. As a country it is important that the best minds get exposed to the best institues and help build a progressive nation. Years later when we will look back at the myopic policies of the politicians of the time, we will realise not only did we increase the urban-rural rich-poor divide, we will also impeeded the nations growth, with the best minds feeling left out in the scheme of things. Is it a price worth paying?
 
can i say i thing

y to say only for iit/ iim. kyun aisa hai ki inme rezervation start hote hi sab taraf tufan aya hai .wat about other institutes jinme pehel se rezervation hai.

yet another double standard of our govt

and also by by iit /iim
 
It is nothing but stupidity of highest order, but then this nation is famous for such cheap gimmicks......Very unfortunate indeed!
 
Ridiculous

Ridiculous!!!! I mean why 49% ? make it 100%!!!
If there has to be any reservation whatsoever, financial status should be the criteria. I have seen so many SC and BC families, they are super duper rich but they still enjoy the privileges of the reservations. On the other hand in a simple middle class( General category) family, where financial stability is a dream, people don't get jobs because of reservation.
Politics is killing India ( Oh!!!! sorry its already dead!!).

I admitt, there are certain sections in our society who are suffering because of the ill treatement given to them by the other sections, but those sections are so poor, they can't even afford basic education and I doubt these people will ever get the benifits of reservation. So who will get the benefits, the rich people. So the Dudes of the family will think, why to study we have reservation, let the middle general class suffer.

I have an excellent idea, make 100% reservation, make these classes better and then after few hundred years, we will be the "other" class and then give that reservation to us. Let this cycle continue for next 3-4 centuries and I bet India would be a better country with fluctuating class system, and by that time we will be so confused that we won't remember to which class we belong to!!!!!!!!

Manmohan Ji, please don't do it.
 
Where should the focus be

The entire model of providing social justice needs to be revised. Providing financial help at the primary education level to the economically and socially backward candidates should be the focus. They should be made competent enough to get into the prime institutes through their talent not through their cast/quota. This would build their self esteem and make them rise on their potential. Social upliftment is needed in the villages where our government is fighting shy to work.

Following the words from an editorial in Times of India - The government should further reserve 50 percent seats in private sector. Next thing Government should do is to segregate India as General Class and Backward Class (pun intended) and divide the nation on the basis of caste.
 
I am on the other side of the argument. I think extending quota is a right step. I will come up with a detailed argument justifying quota regime sometimes next week.

Before that, i would like to know your views (everyone in this thread) on the fact that jats in Rajasthan, Uttar Pradesh and outer Delhi come under OBC and thus stand to benefit from OBC quota. At the same time i also draw attention to the fact that that jats in Rajasthan and UP are educationally not as well off as their brothers elsewhere. Jat Mahasabha lobbied hard to get jats of UP and Rajasthan under OBC purview.
 
gauravchaudhary said:
I am on the other side of the argument. I think extending quota is a right step. I will come up with a detailed argument justifying quota regime sometimes next week.

Before that, i would like to know your views (everyone in this thread) on the fact that jats in Rajasthan, Uttar Pradesh and outer Delhi come under OBC and thus stand to benefit from OBC quota. At the same time i also draw attention to the fact that that jats in Rajasthan and UP are educationally not as well off as their brothers elsewhere. Jat Mahasabha lobbied hard to get jats of UP and Rajasthan under OBC purview.
Click to expand...

Jats all over Delhi are in OBC category and not just from outer Delhi, being a Jat from Delhi I believe that it was nothing but a stupid political gimmick to bank votes. Thankfully, it didnt even work for that.

I dont know how this has affected Jats from other regions, but to Delhi Jats it didnt mean anything, most of them do not even know about it. Most of them simply do not need it and do not care about it.

As your location suggests that you are in Delhi School of Economics I would ask you two things. Does'nt reservation pose as hinderence to Pareto Optimality and doesnt it lead to good talent being driven away from the labour market. Think of the bad cars driving good cars theory (also known as bad lemons vs. good lemons theory).

Cheers,
 
My point is against reservation. Being from a prticular caste does not give us a right to score seat against a deserving candidate. One who competes for it and works hard for it should get it. Let merit be the only criteria for selection. I believe that even if all 100% of seats are taken by SC/ST on the basis of merit, then also it is justified. But if a general candidate can not get a seat despite of being more competent then it is injustice. Because he is the one who has worked harder and is more talented. Our government may provide extra coaching, guidance, free primary education to students who need it. they may also be given scholarship on the basis of their caste. But they should deserve it in the first place.
Do jats need quota to get into prime institutes. We are known for our laborious attitude and pride we hold. I still belive that Quota will not help our brothers in Rajhasthan, UP but a better primary education facility will. I am in a very urban village but people still dont know the meaning of IIT/IIM. I have spent my summer vacations doing career couselling for upliftment of the children in my village. Telling them what engineering and medical means. They need good primary education for their upliftment and proper guidance. Why cant government take some pain and work towards free primary education for OBCs rather than devising new policies for their vote bank.
I am in NIFT and have seen that students who get into on the basis of quota neither are backward nor need any upliftment. they rather fail to keep up with talented students and do not understand the meaning of hard work and 'earning' their place in the institute.
Few things are earned by labour and talent which will build our self esteem and become our strength.
I would again like to add the point that I love my community and want upliftment of our jat bhais who need it. But I a mere 1500 seats in IIM is not the key to acieve but a better primary education to millions in the village is definitely the solution.


gauravchaudhary said:
I am on the other side of the argument. I think extending quota is a right step. I will come up with a detailed argument justifying quota regime sometimes next week.

Before that, i would like to know your views (everyone in this thread) on the fact that jats in Rajasthan, Uttar Pradesh and outer Delhi come under OBC and thus stand to benefit from OBC quota. At the same time i also draw attention to the fact that that jats in Rajasthan and UP are educationally not as well off as their brothers elsewhere. Jat Mahasabha lobbied hard to get jats of UP and Rajasthan under OBC purview.
Click to expand...
 
Anpadhh logon ko bathha dou sabh jagah aur bhukhe maro. Maritorious people will commit suicide and idiots will draw a hafty pay packet, just because they are from a particular block.How sad and stupid.
 
sansanwalamit said:
Jats all over Delhi are in OBC category and not just from outer Delhi, being a Jat from Delhi I believe that it was nothing but a stupid political gimmick to bank votes. Thankfully, it didnt even work for that.

I dont know how this has affected Jats from other regions, but to Delhi Jats it didnt mean anything, most of them do not even know about it. Most of them simply do not need it and do not care about it.

As your location suggests that you are in Delhi School of Economics I would ask you two things. Does'nt reservation pose as hinderence to Pareto Optimality and doesnt it lead to good talent being driven away from the labour market. Think of the bad cars driving good cars theory (also known as bad lemons vs. good lemons theory).

Cheers,
Click to expand...
well we are not here for social upliftment of every community at least not at this jatland....jats r priority here......but writing abt things against reservation....advocating for primary education an d so many things.....wat we sud be interested into the most is how jats r going to be benefitted......aise baat karke ki jo honi hi nahin hai.....resevation to rahega hi......koi bhi sarkar nahin hatayegi esko ..to rasta bachta hai resevation jaton k liye.......so jats sud stand united for this cause.......wat matters for political parties is how many seats we can imake influence on..........
baki bhaion ye sare kam jo bataye hain(primary education) we bhi karte rahaa ge.......par resevation milne ko ghattaa na hai......
sahi bataoon to main resevation ko boora esliye manta hoon kyunki mere ko eska fayda nahin mil raha....agar mil rah ahota to shayad main tarif karta.....ye sabhi k liye hai........andy paaken ki jaroorat naa hai .........
USSI CHEEZ MAIN FAAYDA HAI JISME JATON KI NAUKRI LAAGTI HOO
 
it is a touching sentence uncleji
This is the only thing we are scared of.

devdahiya said:
Anpadhh logon ko bathha dou sabh jagah aur bhukhe maro. Maritorious people will commit suicide and idiots will draw a hafty pay packet, just because they are from a particular block.How sad and stupid.
Click to expand...
 
It is not about community. it is about justice. Kindly think about it. It is about Nation's Talent getting ruined.
I love my community and am proud of it. but before that I am an Indian and love every other Indian. Hence I strictly want to raise my voice against governments vote bank politics .

virender_khokhar said:
well we are not here for social upliftment of every community at least not at this jatland....jats r priority here......but writing abt things against reservation....advocating for primary education an d so many things.....wat we sud be interested into the most is how jats r going to be benefitted......aise baat karke ki jo honi hi nahin hai.....resevation to rahega hi......koi bhi sarkar nahin hatayegi esko ..to rasta bachta hai resevation jaton k liye.......so jats sud stand united for this cause.......wat matters for political parties is how many seats we can imake influence on..........
baki bhaion ye sare kam jo bataye hain(primary education) we bhi karte rahaa ge.......par resevation milne ko ghattaa na hai......
sahi bataoon to main resevation ko boora esliye manta hoon kyunki mere ko eska fayda nahin mil raha....agar mil rah ahota to shayad main tarif karta.....ye sabhi k liye hai........andy paaken ki jaroorat naa hai .........
USSI CHEEZ MAIN FAAYDA HAI JISME JATON KI NAUKRI LAAGTI HOO
Click to expand...
 
manisha said:
It is not about community. it is about justice. Kindly think about it. It is about Nation's Talent getting ruined.
I love my community and am proud of it. but before that I am an Indian and love every other Indian. Hence I strictly want to raise my voice against governments vote bank politics .
Click to expand...
cumon......justice..........foremost justice for oneself(for most the people including me) is how to b successful in life.......this is the truth.....even with u.....just talking of ideal things.......u r indian ....rnt u worldian.....rnt universian......u r.......so everybody is selfish here....depends on the extent.....how can one abolish politics......these things r bound to stay here....so wats next better thing???
 
Demolition of world ranked Institute

This idea of extension of the reservation quota upto 50% in IITs and IIMs will degrade the quality of these world fame Institutes.From the day of our independency the idea of reservation has not worked.it should be applied on the economical condition basis and not on the caste basis.the further reservation idea will only add the racial discrimination,frustration among the gerenral candidates,the unemployment and the most brain drain.On one side the government wishes to improve the condition of science and technolgy in India and on the other hand these low fundas are applied.How can u get good quality of scientists, technologists if such things are applied.there of galaxy of persons all over the world who wre so poor but they made history through their brain not from getting reservations.the goverment brings these ideas only to fulfill their cheap activities.God has gifted equal brain to everbody.therefore the backwards should be financially supported.So the idea of the reservation should be stopped
 
drrajpoonia said:
...and in doing so will signal the death knell for thousands of hard working students who will miss out beacuse they are in the open quota.
Click to expand...
Yes, this is true. The argument that reservation essentially leads to *merit* losing out is a valid one.

drrajpoonia said:
Years of politics over reservations and the rise of regional and national backward caste parties have ensured that the proposal to increase the reservation to nearly 50% was unanimous amongst the political class.
Click to expand...
The political class is guided by opportunism. It is not so much about being visionaries, modern politician is usually short-sighted, Indian or otherwise. Come to think of it, the idea of a *total* reservation of 50% seems odd to me - reservation must be abolished.

manisha said:
The entire model of providing social justice needs to be revised. Providing financial help at the primary education level to the economically and socially backward candidates should be the focus. They should be made competent enough to get into the prime institutes through their talent not through their cast/quota. This would build their self esteem and make them rise on their potential. Social upliftment is needed in the villages where our government is fighting shy to work.
Click to expand...
There is a certain level of competency required before one takes the IIT/IIM exams (or other entrance exams) - this is affected by the education one has received during schooling - the quality of school education should be the focus. Schooling should not only be free, it should be able to provide all the resources to the *willing* student. Thus, we need to focus on the infrastructure, not on reservations.

drrajpoonia said:
...the original idea behind the policy of reservations was meant for a period of ten years only.
Click to expand...
I think that even at that time, it was not the best of ideas...the seed of unfortunate developments it was...

drrajpoonia said:
As a country it is important that the best minds get exposed to the best institues and help build a progressive nation.
Click to expand...
Yes, that should be the idea governing the policies: what the politician wants is the power, what the people want is upliftment; the politician does not realize that is s/he can provide this upliftment through better (qualitatively and quantitatively) education, s/he does not need to try to gain votes by wooing people using caste-based reservations...so far as India being a big country and facing resource-crunch is concerned, I think that the nation can generate sufficient resources for providing good education during school: I am confident this is not a very difficult task if the will is there.

So, the idea is to make resources freely available to anyone interested in furthering their intellectual capabilities. A more capable mind is what separates man from other species, and the developed nations have applied the mind towards certain goals more efficiently... so provide resources (freely) for the growth of the mind and *then* let them compete!! Make education compulsory, free and provide quality resources....and abolish the reservations.

The primary worry that SC/ST/OBC won't be able to compete because of lack of resources leads to the thought that providing those resources should be the focus...I am sure that if the proponents of the original reservation idea were well-meaning in their intentions, they, in this age of internet and information highways, would have focussed on leveraging these for the benefit of all...

Guess what, in UK, my food per day costs me more than my internet access for the whole month...the message is, provide *educational resources* to *all* without discrimination in quantity or quality to make them stronger intellectually; and then let them compete freely without any crutches.

manisha said:
I am in NIFT and have seen that students who get into on the basis of quota neither are backward nor need any upliftment. they rather fail to keep up with talented students and do not understand the meaning of hard work and 'earning' their place in the institute.
Click to expand...
ajaykundu said:
So the Dudes of the family will think, why to study we have reservation, let the middle general class suffer.
Click to expand...
Reservations have only made it worse, so there is no point (in continuing or enhancing the reservations...)

panwar_arya said:
..it should be applied on the economical condition basis and not on the caste basis.
Click to expand...
I disagree that reservation based on financial/economic criteria is valid. No reservation, provide everyone free access to educational resources (to the limit they want to explore) during their schooling and when they prepare for entrance tests and then let them compete freely. Educational institutes are not to ensure that this-or-that-caste or this-or-that-economic-class has privileged access; anyone who has utilized the resources provided and has a burning desire and is better in this regard than others should be let in (to these institutes of higher learning). However, banks etc. should finance this education fully (not partially) and they can have a lien on the future income of such an aspirant to the extent of the loans extended by them...
 
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