samarkadian
Active member
How JAT in OBC would take community backward?
How many weaker people other than non-Jats you have helped other than preaching here.?
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jaat aarakshan kyo?? iske fayde??
- Thread starter vairesatendra
- Start date
How JAT in OBC would take community backward?
How many weaker people other than non-Jats you have helped other than preaching here.?
samarkadian
Active member
Bhai Jats don't need reservation as a community. Some of us do need. I am not against weak jats who really need to be uplifted. I am against those affluent jats who sell their land and dont study and they bet on reservation to get in govt jobs.
Boy, it happened. Let me know, How can a Jat who has not studied can get any sort of Govt job?
prashantdabas
New member
Again dear weaker Jats need help not all. same applies to other castes too.
prashantdabas
New member
It takes our country back on several fronts. It promotes caste based politics. Why cant we work hard?
I am not preaching, Currently, I teach 10 kids free of cost and I don't their caste.
You don't need to be angry with a person with an opposing view. Infact, our aim is the betterment of Jats. You want through reservation and I want through hard work.
I am not preaching, Currently, I teach 10 kids free of cost and I don't their caste.
You don't need to be angry with a person with an opposing view. Infact, our aim is the betterment of Jats. You want through reservation and I want through hard work.
Bhai Jats don't need reservation as a community. Some of us do need. I am not against weak jats who really need to be uplifted. I am against those affluent jats who sell their land and dont study and they bet on reservation to get in govt jobs.
Except SC no one need reservation as a community. Don't single out Jats for reason known to you only.
prashantdabas
New member
Ohh dear...read my posts again...I am repeatedly saying "reservation for only for the weak in all castes. No caste based reservations".
samarkadian
Active member
Ohh dear...read my posts again...I am repeatedly saying "reservation for only for the weak in all castes. No caste based reservations".
Read it. http://www.mid-day.com/articles/job-quota-sc-junks-pil-seeking-job-quotas-based-on-income/15137070
The Supreme Court on Monday junked a PIL seeking to do away with caste-based job reservation for Dalits, tribals and others and replacing it with quotas based on the economic criteria.
Dismissing the plea by Manjit Singh Sachdeva, Chief Justice P. Sathasivam and Justice Ranjan Gogoi asked the petitioner if he thought all caste barriers had ended in India.
"Do you mean to say that in our country the caste system is over? All are well placed and progressing?"
The court asked Sachdeva to urge the government to do away with caste-based reservation.
"You have to tell the government and the elected representatives to abolish caste-based reservation," the petitioner was told.
Sachdeva said political parties could not be persuaded as they had a vested interest in continuing with the reservation.
But the court was not impressed by his argument. The judges told Sachdeva to pursue the matter with the government either now or after four months when a new government will be formed.
Prashant - I am reproducing my post to you from another thread here. This is a more appropriate thread for this discussion.
Prashant bhai - Its true Jat reservation isn't a panacea for the upliftment of the community. There's a long distance to cover before we can proudly say the community is developed economically, socially and intellectually. But reservation to an extent can make that distance shorter, as we have seen for other communities who have availed this benefit.
As I was discussing with Samar - reservation is not a crutch or a govt aid for Jats. Its a confidence building measure that will lead to role models becoming beacons for the youth of the community. In every community you need contemporary role models. Imagine the number of role models when our brothers join civil services or elite medical and engineering institutions.
I did an MBA because my maternal uncle whom I idolized as a kid became the first in our family to do it. That is how inspirations are built. Yes, we have a proud martial and honorable history, but you can't always look towards the past. Your future is decided by your present and reservation is the need of the present.
In a perfect world, we won't need any reservation and we should we able to compete with every candidate of any background. But the world isn't perfect and our youths are competing with those who have benefits like reservation or have a elite family history. So in an imperfect, flawed world, we should make use of whatever advantage we can get to make it a level playing field.
P.S. If you find time, search my initial posts on JL. They were exactly like yours (perhaps even longer!) and vehemently opposed reservation. But slowly with time, I understood the context and the varied perspectives to this issue.
Prashant bhai - Its true Jat reservation isn't a panacea for the upliftment of the community. There's a long distance to cover before we can proudly say the community is developed economically, socially and intellectually. But reservation to an extent can make that distance shorter, as we have seen for other communities who have availed this benefit.
As I was discussing with Samar - reservation is not a crutch or a govt aid for Jats. Its a confidence building measure that will lead to role models becoming beacons for the youth of the community. In every community you need contemporary role models. Imagine the number of role models when our brothers join civil services or elite medical and engineering institutions.
I did an MBA because my maternal uncle whom I idolized as a kid became the first in our family to do it. That is how inspirations are built. Yes, we have a proud martial and honorable history, but you can't always look towards the past. Your future is decided by your present and reservation is the need of the present.
In a perfect world, we won't need any reservation and we should we able to compete with every candidate of any background. But the world isn't perfect and our youths are competing with those who have benefits like reservation or have a elite family history. So in an imperfect, flawed world, we should make use of whatever advantage we can get to make it a level playing field.
P.S. If you find time, search my initial posts on JL. They were exactly like yours (perhaps even longer!) and vehemently opposed reservation. But slowly with time, I understood the context and the varied perspectives to this issue.
prashantdabas
New member
The castes are not over. I agree. All the people in a particular caste are not backward and only the backward need reservation to make them equal. By giving the reservation to the affluent ones divides the society further. The real needy will not be benefited as they are not at par with the rest in their caste.
The first thing to see is are the so-called OBCs socially deprived be it yadavs, gujjar, ahirs, jats etc. Do the rest of the society see them with denigrating eyes?
The court have asked him to go to the government. As the court does not legislate. It just seeks whether the matter is according to the constitution.
Removing caste based reservation is matter of legislation. As we can't go to the court and ask for reservation same way it can't refuse it.
The reservation for muslims was unconstitutional and was stayed by court.
Reservation for Jats per se is not unconstitutional. But, it is for the community to decide whether want to be party to this race of scoring reservation or we choose otherwise and set an example to abolish caste based reservation (weak do need reservation).
The first thing to see is are the so-called OBCs socially deprived be it yadavs, gujjar, ahirs, jats etc. Do the rest of the society see them with denigrating eyes?
The court have asked him to go to the government. As the court does not legislate. It just seeks whether the matter is according to the constitution.
Removing caste based reservation is matter of legislation. As we can't go to the court and ask for reservation same way it can't refuse it.
The reservation for muslims was unconstitutional and was stayed by court.
Reservation for Jats per se is not unconstitutional. But, it is for the community to decide whether want to be party to this race of scoring reservation or we choose otherwise and set an example to abolish caste based reservation (weak do need reservation).
prashantdabas
New member
Thanks for your gentlemanly post.
I am a doing PhD from one of elite institutes in India and is from a very economically humble family. Sir Chhotu Ram has been my ideal.
I accept that our society is flawed in more than one manner. Don't you think we as youngsters need to bring some order in this chaos of reservation. Is there an end to it?
shouldn't our efforts be make an equal society?
I am a doing PhD from one of elite institutes in India and is from a very economically humble family. Sir Chhotu Ram has been my ideal.
I accept that our society is flawed in more than one manner. Don't you think we as youngsters need to bring some order in this chaos of reservation. Is there an end to it?
shouldn't our efforts be make an equal society?
Thanks for your gentlemanly post.
I am a doing PhD from one of elite institutes in India and is from a very economically humble family. Sir Chhotu Ram has been my ideal.
I accept that our society is flawed in more than one manner. Don't you think we as youngsters need to bring some order in this chaos of reservation. Is there an end to it?
shouldn't our efforts be make an equal society?
Prashant bhai - all your arguments are valid. I daresay you are very idealistic. But idealism has to be tempered with practicality. And that is where lies the difference bwteen an idealistic Anna and a practical Kejriwal.
In any case most of your points have been discussed in previous threads. Here is one below. I would request you to search 'Jat reservation' through the forum and read all the posts. This might take you some time but there's no point covering the same ground as before. I am sure you will appreciate that as a researcher.[h=2]Reservation is our constitutional right[/h]
prashantdabas
New member
I have gone through most of the post. Didn't find anyone openly posting against caste based reservation. Some meek posts are there.
Another thing which we can do to be different from the rest of the OBC is to voluntarily accept a time frame for reservation for jats.
Say 10-20 years. What do you feel is that enough to bring the downtrodden jats on an equal platform?
Another thing which we can do to be different from the rest of the OBC is to voluntarily accept a time frame for reservation for jats.
Say 10-20 years. What do you feel is that enough to bring the downtrodden jats on an equal platform?
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Do not worry there is additional economic criteria as well. so well to do jats would not get it, ibb te theek se na ?
Bhai Jats don't need reservation as a community. Some of us do need. I am not against weak jats who really need to be uplifted. I am against those affluent jats who sell their land and dont study and they bet on reservation to get in govt jobs.
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prashantdabas
New member
I know about the creamy layer bhai (6 lak p.a. is the limit). People hide their real sources of income even after being in govt job. I appeal my dear brethren that if you belong to an well to do family do not use reservation route for job. Every seat a rich jat occupies eats up a weak jats future. Please do a self check on the following parameters (from Mandal commission) before blindly taking benefit of reservation.
SOCIAL
SOCIAL
- Classes considered as socially backward by others.
- Classes which mainly depend on manual labour for their livelihood.
- Classes where at least 25 per cent females and 10 per cent males above the state average get married at an age below 17 years in rural areas and at least 10 per cent females and 5 per cent males do so in urban areas.
- Classes where participation of females in work is at least 25 per cent above the state average.
- Classes where the number of children in the age group of 5–15 years who never attended school is at least 25 percent above the state average.
- Classes where the rate of student drop-out in the age group of 5–15 years is at least 25 percent above the state average.
- Classes amongst whom the proportion of matriculates is at least 25 per cent below the state average.
- Classes where the average value of family assets is at least 25 per cent below the state average.
- Classes where the number of families living in kuccha houses is at least 25 per cent above the state average.
- Classes where the source of drinking water is beyond half kilometer for more than 50 per cent of the households.
- Classes where the number of households having taken consumption loans is at least 25 per cent above the state average.
I have gone through most of the post. Didn't find anyone openly posting against caste based reservation. Some meek posts are there.
Another thing which we can do to be different from the rest of the OBC is to voluntarily accept a time frame for reservation for jats.
Say 10-20 years. What do you feel is that enough to bring the downtrodden jats on an equal platform?
I would say a couple of generations - 50-60 years.
prashantdabas
New member
Disagree brother, an clever answer. We have take expert opinions on that.
Wish I had seen this thread before- my post from another thread:
Prashant- we may think we are too educated to not to care for reservation but my friend you are wrong. Read what happened with me personally.
After 12th I gave my exam for NIFT for 4 year garment manufacturing degree, or textile engineering. My all India rank was 181 and there were 180 seats for the course across India. I had another friend whose rank was 431 and she was from reserved category. When I went for to see the results I was nothing but SHOCKED to see I was not even in the waiting list where as my friend were among top 30 and got the choice of her center.
Now tell me, was I less deserving from her? What had I done not to get the seat?
P.S. I did get the seat in the end as people opted out but got Chennai as a center, not my choice and dropped out of the college with in a week.
Prashant- we may think we are too educated to not to care for reservation but my friend you are wrong. Read what happened with me personally.
After 12th I gave my exam for NIFT for 4 year garment manufacturing degree, or textile engineering. My all India rank was 181 and there were 180 seats for the course across India. I had another friend whose rank was 431 and she was from reserved category. When I went for to see the results I was nothing but SHOCKED to see I was not even in the waiting list where as my friend were among top 30 and got the choice of her center.
Now tell me, was I less deserving from her? What had I done not to get the seat?
P.S. I did get the seat in the end as people opted out but got Chennai as a center, not my choice and dropped out of the college with in a week.
Disagree brother, an clever answer. We have take expert opinions on that.
Benefits of affirmative action aren't achieved in a decade or two. In spite of reservation for 60 years, the SC and the ST still comprise of the poorest in the country. While our condition isn't as bad, it may still take us a generation or two to let the benefits percolate everywhere.
prashantdabas
New member
It simply means caste based reservations fails miserably on its objective. We need to improve on other social factors like good education facilities reach all villages. Teachers are selected fairly. People don't go to give nakal for their friends. Health care. Its not difficult. People don't work. people think mere baap ka kya ja raha hai.
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It simply means caste based reservations fails miserably on its objective. We need to improve on other social factors like good education facilities reach all villages. Teachers are selected fairly. People don't go to give nakal for their friends. Health care. Its not difficult. People don't work. people think mere baap ka kya ja raha hai.
Again those problems can't be denied. Their are long term solutions and short term solutions. Reservation is the latter and the former has to continue on an ongoing basis. Its as simple as that.
In a perfect world, we wouldn't need any short term solution for the community but we do.