Jat and Religion

[virj]

jat to pahalam tein-a hindu koni

When the Sant movement declined, Swami Dayanand Saraswati founded Arya Samaj on Vedic lines. All the Jats of Haryana, Rajasthan, Brij and Uttar Pradesh readily adopted Arya Samaj as their religion. The reader will notice that Jats have from time to time adopted only those religions, which preached only one God and condemned idol worship and superstitious beliefs.

I don’t know how much of this is true or whether this is writer's assumption. Mostly all Arya Samaji Jats I met were from southern part of Haryana (mainly Rohtak and further). Arya Samaj did not has much influence in Punjab, Northern Haryana and I think same is true for the northern border area of Rajasthan. Though where ever I went I have seen that Jats ridicule bhamans(I am referring bhamans as only those who perform rituals not as a caste). Mostly Jats don’t believe in kundlis and other such rituals, in general. I have seen that almost all Jats worship "pitrs" (and also "Hanuman"), even in punjab. Ram and Shiva are also worshipped by Jats. Some Jatnis worship goddess like santoshi mata. Many jats, even today, don’t drink on Tuesday as it’s a day of Bajrang Bali. Also, I have seen Pitr pooja is an integral part of Jat society. Pitr are our forefathers. Many Jats worship/pay homage to pir as well(mostly in punjab and north haryana). Pirs were mostly sufi saints who were deeply influenced with Hinduism. Some Muslims in Greater Punjab area and Sindh and few other areas also worship pir. In Islam they don’t worship dead people and its certainly Hinduism influence. Thats why pirs were equally worshipped by hindus and muslims (now by sikhs too). However, it can be debated by people. Hinduism is a culture, a civilisation, a way of life which vary from region to region and is influenced by some other cultures and religions as well. Its not our word that’s y u wont find its reference in our books. It’s a word given to us by foreigners ( Iranians, I believe). Hinduism isn't bound to one person, one text book as many other religion are. Hinduism has 1000 deities, 100 ways of life. We all are very much Hindus. Sikhism, Budhism are also part of this Hinduism. Some people link Hinduism to Brahmans which, I think is not right. Brahmans did try to fool people by controlling the knowledge. Hinduism is this great civlisation and we are part of it.

It is a modest samadhi of the first man who died after that village came into being.

I would question this as I think Pitr isnt the one who was the first dead in the village but He is our ancestor whom we worship. It doesnt mean that if a family migrate to another village then their pitr change. He is the ancestor of the clan or aabai Khandan. I think the author probably wants to say first dead of aabai village.

This is not from any book, Its just based on my experience and interaction with people. Please correct me if I am wrong anywhere.

 

[ankurmalik]

जिन्हें ऐसा लगता है कि जाटों का तो धर्म से कोई लेना-देना ही नहीं है, तो फिर उन्हें अपना धर्म त्याग देना चाहिए और इस दुनिया में बिना धर्म के जीना चाहिए. ये दुनिया ऐसे बे-धर्म वालों को अच्छा-खासा सबक सिखा देगी. पता नहीं कहां से ये अफवाह फ़ैल रही है कि जाटों का तो भारत से और हिंदू धर्म से कोई मतलब ही नहीं है. ऐसे लोग अहसानफरामोश हैं, जो मुसलमान, सिख या ईसाई बनने पर उस धर्म को भी गाली बकने लगेंगे. भारत की मिट्टी ने जाटों को सम्मान दिया, सुरक्षा दी, एक अच्छी संस्कृति दी, हिंदू धर्म जैसा महान धर्म दिया...धर्म अपनाना कुछ मजबूरी रही होगी, जो हमारे पूर्वजों ने धर्म अपनाया. जाटों में ऐसे लोगों की बहुलता है, जो बेहद धार्मिक हैं और धर्म के नाम पर किसी भी हद तक जा सकते हैं. हरियाणा में गौ-वध को लेकर कई बार मुसलमानों की हत्याएं की जा चुकी हैं और यदि हिंदू धर्म को गाली बकने वाले जाट ऐसा खुले आम कह दें तो फिर जाटों के ही हाथों उनकी शामत आना तय है. ये अच्छी बात है कि भारत और हिंदू धर्म को गाली बकने वाले जाटों की संख्या पूरी जाट कौम में ना के बराबर है. हर देश में, हर धर्म में, हर जाति में खुद को बुरा कहने वाले लोग हैं. जिन्हें अपने देश, धर्म और जाति से कुछ मिला होगा, वे इनकी प्रशंसा करेंगे और जिन्हें कुछ नहीं मिला होगा वे गाली बकेंगे. अभी यहीं पता चला था कि कोई मि. सिवाच और एक-दो और ऐसे ही जाट जाटों को खूब बुरा बताते हैं....बाद में पता चला कि ये सिवाच जाटों की वजह से किलसा हुआ है, क्योंकि जाटों ने उसके प्रेमविवाह में अड़चन डाली थी...तो ऐसे लोगों की परवाह नहीं करनी चाहिए...यहां जाटलैंड पर ऐसे अहसानफरामोश जाट शायद ही कोई हो, जैसी कुछेक बातें ऊपर हिंदू धर्म के विरुद्ध कही गई हैं, मैं समझता हूं कि वे बातें शरारत करने के लिए कही गई हैं...ये देखने के लिए कही गई हैं कि देखें ऐसी बातों से कौन-कौन परेशान होता है...

Are Bhai aap kya baat keh rahe ho yahin per.Ye Bharamano ne jo ulta sidha sikha diya. Log usko manne lage. Koi logic nahi kuch nahi. Jitna nuksan in bharaman ne desh ko pahuchaya hai wo sab jaante hain. Inhone apni dukandari karni hoti thi aur aab bhi kar rahe hain. Haridwar mei baithe hain itne saare Sadhu baane aur sulfa pite hain logon se dharam ke upar paise loot kar. Ganga ke paani aur kharab kar dete hain. Vaise hi Ganga mei factories ka polluted material jata hai. Ye log vahan diwe daal dete hain. Aur pata nahi kya kya. Abhi piche main National Geographic Channel ke upar dekh raha tha. Rajesthan mei koi mandir hai. Vahan itne chuhe(Rats) hain jitne duniya mei kahin nahi honge. Log un chuho(Rats) ko dhoodh pilate hai. Plague jaisi khatarnaak bimari in Chuho se hi aati hai. Aur bhi pata nahi kya kya. Aur bhi pata nahi kya kya sikha diya logon ko. Koi kehta hai ki Tuesday ko drink mat karo aur baaki ke saare baache hue dino mei drink kar lo. Koi sense bani. Pata nahi kya kya andvishvaas daal diye logon mei.Meat mat khao. Pap lag jayega. Aur bhi pata nahi kya kya. Aisa hi pap lagna hota to ye saari duniya hi nahi mar jaati. Faaltu ki baatein faila rakhi hain.

 

[malikdeepak1]

Aur bhi pata nahi kya kya sikha diya logon ko. Koi kehta hai ki Tuesday ko drink mat karo aur baaki ke saare baache hue dino mei drink kar lo. Koi sense bani. Pata nahi kya kya andvishvaas daal diye logon mei.Meat mat khao. Pap lag jayega. Aur bhi pata nahi kya kya. Aisa hi pap lagna hota to ye saari duniya hi nahi mar jaati. Faaltu ki baatein faila rakhi hain.

Its all about beliefs. There is no restriction in India on believing something. If you feel something is incorrect, then the democracy give you every right not to follow that. Aur ye beech me MEAT khaane wali baat kaha se aa gayi bhai? Some people like veg, some non-veg. Its about habits and taste. So please don't mix this with religious feelings.

And if you feel that these pandits are fooling people like us more than often, then our constitution gives your every right to file a case against them(reason tu decide kar liye bhai case ka), or you can go for a satyagrah that until these pandits don't stop befooling my "caste/religion mates" I will be on SATYAGRAH!!




PS : Not so frequently practiced though, par Aamaran anshan bhi ek option hai. "Gandhi" ji ke tuneer ka ek achook baan tha yu bhi!

 

[ankurmalik]

Its all about beliefs. There is no restriction in India on believing something. If you feel something is incorrect, then the democracy give you every right not to follow that. Aur ye beech me MEAT khaane wali baat kaha se aa gayi bhai? Some people like veg, some non-veg. Its about habits and taste. So please don't mix this with religious feelings.

And if you feel that these pandits are fooling people like us more than often, then our constitution gives your every right to file a case against them(reason tu decide kar liye bhai case ka), or you can go for a satyagrah that until these pandits don't stop befooling my "caste/religion mates" I will be on SATYAGRAH!!




PS : Not so frequently practiced though, par Aamaran anshan bhi ek option hai. "Gandhi" ji ke tuneer ka ek achook baan tha yu bhi!

Are bhai, Main to vo bata raha hoon jo mughe lagta hai. Main kisi ko force thodi na kar raha hoon yahan per. Follow karne vaale kar rahe hain aur nahi karne vaale nahi bhi kar rahe. Aur yadi main kisi ko force karta bhi hoon to kaun maane vaala hai aur koi kyon maane. Sabki apni iccha hai bhai aur apni vichar dhara hai. Ye to vicharo ka adan pradan hai. Jaise aap apne de rahe ho vaise hi main apne de raha hoon.

 

[malikdeepak1]

Are bhai, Main to vo bata raha hoon jo mughe lagta hai. Main kisi ko force thodi na kar raha hoon yahan per. Follow karne vaale kar rahe hain aur nahi karne vaale nahi bhi kar rahe. Aur yadi main kisi ko force karta bhi hoon to kaun maane vaala hai aur koi kyon maane. Sabki apni iccha hai bhai aur apni vichar dhara hai. Ye to vicharo ka adan pradan hai. Jaise aap apne de rahe ho vaise hi main apne de raha hoon.

Yahi baat maine bhi kahi hai bhai. I think you missed the little sarcasm in my post!

 

[upendersingh]

Are Bhai aap kya baat keh rahe ho yahin per.Ye Bharamano ne jo ulta sidha sikha diya. Log usko manne lage. Koi logic nahi kuch nahi. Jitna nuksan in bharaman ne desh ko pahuchaya hai wo sab jaante hain. Inhone apni dukandari karni hoti thi aur aab bhi kar rahe hain. Haridwar mei baithe hain itne saare Sadhu baane aur sulfa pite hain logon se dharam ke upar paise loot kar. Ganga ke paani aur kharab kar dete hain. Vaise hi Ganga mei factories ka polluted material jata hai. Ye log vahan diwe daal dete hain. Aur pata nahi kya kya. Abhi piche main National Geographic Channel ke upar dekh raha tha. Rajesthan mei koi mandir hai. Vahan itne chuhe(Rats) hain jitne duniya mei kahin nahi honge. Log un chuho(Rats) ko dhoodh pilate hai. Plague jaisi khatarnaak bimari in Chuho se hi aati hai. Aur bhi pata nahi kya kya. Aur bhi pata nahi kya kya sikha diya logon ko. Koi kehta hai ki Tuesday ko drink mat karo aur baaki ke saare baache hue dino mei drink kar lo. Koi sense bani. Pata nahi kya kya andvishvaas daal diye logon mei.Meat mat khao. Pap lag jayega. Aur bhi pata nahi kya kya. Aisa hi pap lagna hota to ye saari duniya hi nahi mar jaati. Faaltu ki baatein faila rakhi hain.

ऐसे 'ब्राह्मण' सारी दुनिया में हैं. ये गलती आपकी नहीं है, बल्कि आजकल की तथाकथित आधुनिक शिक्षा व्यवस्था की है, जो केवल यह सिखा रही है कि जो भी है बस विज्ञान है. ये जितनी भी बातें आपने यहां कही हैं, इन सबको आप खुद अपने मुंह से गलत कह दोगे. फिलहाल तो मेरे पास टाइम नहीं है. फुर्सत मिलेगी और मेरा मन होगा तो आपकी इन बातों पर चर्चा करूंगा. अभी आप बस ये नीचे खबर देखो और अपने आपसे पूछो कि आपके सबसे पसंदीदा देशों में से एक अमेरिका में भी ऐसे 'ब्राह्मण' क्यों हैं, जो मस्जिद-चर्च, कुरान जलाने जैसी तुच्छ बातें कर रहे हैं?

........................................................................................................................................................
The Mosque at Ground Zero: "Don't Build It"
The Center for Inquiry in Amherst NY has come out against the mosque. I've been pretty much avoiding this topic (not for any particularly good reason) other than to note the gagging teabaggers beating up on non-pink people that they assume are Kaaaaiiiiliiii terrorists or something.
But DuWayne Brayton posted a link, with commentary, to the CFI's statement on the mosque, and, I find myself respectfully disagreeing with DuWayne and going in with the CFI on this one.
Religion did this. The terrorist attack was a religious event. I don't want a mosque or a temple or a church or community center linked to a religion built in the vicinity of the destroyed World Trade Center on account of the attack any more than I want a religious structure built next to the Federal Office Building in Oklahoma City on account of that religious attack by Christian White Supremacist McVay.
In fact, I suggest in a comment on DuWayne's post what should really happen in New York City.
US Muslim groups unite, see mosque near ground zero as test of right


New York – American Muslim leaders are starting to coalesce around the concept of building an Islamic Centerand mosque close to ground zero. Their reason for coming together: The issue has now become a test of their constitutional right to build houses of worship anywhere in the nation.
On Monday, at a press conference outside of , the proposed site of the mosque and community center, national and local Islamic religious leaders said they stood in support of the building of the mosque in this place.
Man ignites Koran near Ground Zero

A hate-filled fanatic ripped pages out of a Koran and lit them aflame Saturday amid the chaos outside the planned community center and mosque near Ground Zero.
"If they can burn American flags, I can burn the Koran," the unidentified zealot shouted. "[Americans] should never be afraid to give their opinion."
Witnesses said it was a ghastly display of fervor - apparently inspired by the Florida pastor who vowed to torch the holy books earlier in the week - overshadowing what should have been a somber day.
"Burning Korans is like setting up a recruitment to Al Qaeda - it does nothing for the cause and only brings problems," said Lance Corey, 61, a retired history teacher from the Bronx who opposes Park51.
........................................................................................................................................................​

 

[ankurmalik]

ऐसे 'ब्राह्मण' सारी दुनिया में हैं. ये गलती आपकी नहीं है, बल्कि आजकल की तथाकथित आधुनिक शिक्षा व्यवस्था की है, जो केवल यह सिखा रही है कि जो भी है बस विज्ञान है. ये जितनी भी बातें आपने यहां कही हैं, इन सबको आप खुद अपने मुंह से गलत कह दोगे. फिलहाल तो मेरे पास टाइम नहीं है. फुर्सत मिलेगी और मेरा मन होगा तो आपकी इन बातों पर चर्चा करूंगा. अभी आप बस ये नीचे खबर देखो और अपने आपसे पूछो कि आपके सबसे पसंदीदा देशों में से एक अमेरिका में भी ऐसे 'ब्राह्मण' क्यों हैं, जो मस्जिद-चर्च, कुरान जलाने जैसी तुच्छ बातें कर रहे हैं?

........................................................................................................................................................
The Mosque at Ground Zero: "Don't Build It"
The Center for Inquiry in Amherst NY has come out against the mosque. I've been pretty much avoiding this topic (not for any particularly good reason) other than to note the gagging teabaggers beating up on non-pink people that they assume are Kaaaaiiiiliiii terrorists or something.
But DuWayne Brayton posted a link, with commentary, to the CFI's statement on the mosque, and, I find myself respectfully disagreeing with DuWayne and going in with the CFI on this one.
Religion did this. The terrorist attack was a religious event. I don't want a mosque or a temple or a church or community center linked to a religion built in the vicinity of the destroyed World Trade Center on account of the attack any more than I want a religious structure built next to the Federal Office Building in Oklahoma City on account of that religious attack by Christian White Supremacist McVay.
In fact, I suggest in a comment on DuWayne's post what should really happen in New York City.
US Muslim groups unite, see mosque near ground zero as test of right


New York – American Muslim leaders are starting to coalesce around the concept of building an Islamic Centerand mosque close to ground zero. Their reason for coming together: The issue has now become a test of their constitutional right to build houses of worship anywhere in the nation.
On Monday, at a press conference outside of , the proposed site of the mosque and community center, national and local Islamic religious leaders said they stood in support of the building of the mosque in this place.
Man ignites Koran near Ground Zero

A hate-filled fanatic ripped pages out of a Koran and lit them aflame Saturday amid the chaos outside the planned community center and mosque near Ground Zero.
"If they can burn American flags, I can burn the Koran," the unidentified zealot shouted. "[Americans] should never be afraid to give their opinion."
Witnesses said it was a ghastly display of fervor - apparently inspired by the Florida pastor who vowed to torch the holy books earlier in the week - overshadowing what should have been a somber day.
"Burning Korans is like setting up a recruitment to Al Qaeda - it does nothing for the cause and only brings problems," said Lance Corey, 61, a retired history teacher from the Bronx who opposes Park51.
........................................................................................................................................................​

Obama ne baad mei ye keh diya tha ki Jaab Hindu Mandir ho sakta hai to Mosque kyon nahi. Baaki main aapke baat se sehmat hoon ki aise ब्राह्मण duniya mei har jagah hain. Mera kehne ka matlab sirf ye hai ki aap kya nikaalte ho in baaton mei vishvaas karke. Muslim bevkoofon ki tarah ladaii karte rehte hain apas mei. Shia, Sunni ek doosre ko maarne par tule hue hain. Iraq mei jo sab ho raha hai wo kaafi kuch Muslimon ki aapsi ladayi se bhi ho raha hai. Wo bhi dharam ke upar. Mohamaad ke upar khamkha ki ladii ho rahi hai. Jaghad rahe hain apas mein. Maar rahe hain ek doosre ko. Kya outcome hai in baaton ko. Mohamad koi roti thodi na khila dega. Ya Shiites ya Sunni kuch roti khila dega. Vaise hi bharat mei itni gareebi hai. Logon befaltu mei Ayodya, Ram Mandir par ladd rahe hain. Jahan desh ke logon ko rozgaar chahiye, gariboon ko roti chahiye vahan to kuch ho nahi raha. Apas mei jhagad kar desh ko aur bhi jayda nuksaan pahucha rahe hain. Yadi aap mughse poochte ho ki dharam kya hai. Main "Karam" ko dharam maanta hoon. Apna kaam karo. Ek doosre ki help karo bina kisi majhab vagra ko dhayan mei rakhte hue. Usse bada koi dharam nahi hai.

 

[vairesatendra]

I agree with Upender Bhai. He has got some valid points in his kitty.

This is a very sensitive issue and we must post after deep pondering not like Ankur Malik as it will create fuss only.

I request Ankur Malik if he he has some better logic to confront Upender's point. (maintaing the decorum)

 

[ankurmalik]

I agree with Upender Bhai. He has got some valid points in his kitty.

This is a very sensitive issue and we must post after deep pondering not like Ankur Malik as it will create fuss only.

I request Ankur Malik if he he has some better logic to confront Upender's point. (maintaing the decorum)

Please read my reply. Thanks.

 

[vairesatendra]

Ayodhya is again very sensitive. Please keep it aside.

Jo yaha p Jat h unme se kitne apne aap ko Hindu nahi kehte?

Agar wo apne aap ko Hindu nahi mante to kya wo Hinduism k rituals (all the customs and rituals) ko follow nahi karte?

 

[vairesatendra]

Please read my reply. Thanks.

Bhai it is Hinduism, jo hume 'Karam' karne ki seekh deta h...without any caste, color and creed. Jis Hinduism ki bat aap kar rahe ho, wo misrepresented Hinduism h.

Anyways, I dont want to change your perception because this is not my 'KARAM'. Also I would request all of you to save the resources for something positive.

Ravinderjeet bhai pata nahi is thread me aag laga ke kaha gayab ho gaya. Lagta h Hinduism ko tyagne gaya h bhai... lolzzzz

 

[ankurmalik]

Ayodhya is again very sensitive. Please keep it aside.

Jo yaha p Jat h unme se kitne apne aap ko Hindu nahi kehte?

Agar wo apne aap ko Hindu nahi mante to kya wo Hinduism k rituals (all the customs and rituals) ko follow nahi karte?

Dear Satendera,

I am not here to preach. Nor i am showering my knowledge over people to follow what i preach. All I am saying is, What if I accept a Hindu or Muslim or Christian religion. Will that feed those people who are striving for food and shelter. The energy i waste over religion. Should not that energy be used somewhere else more constructive. Following a religion won't help those deprived people live in slums. What will help is you, me, and other members to come forward and discuss how we can help those poor people who seriously need our help. How much we can donate to our society. What I can contribute to the society. Be it finance or some other help. Lets start a thread on this portal and then do some positive instead of writing here 1000 of lines which conclude nothing.

 

[ravichaudhary]

Are Bhai aap kya baat keh rahe ho yahin per.Ye Bharamano ne jo ulta sidha sikha diya. Log usko manne lage. Koi logic nahi kuch nahi. Jitna nuksan in bharaman ne desh ko pahuchaya hai wo sab jaante hain. Inhone apni dukandari karni hoti thi aur aab bhi kar rahe hain. Haridwar mei baithe hain itne saare Sadhu baane aur sulfa pite hain logon se dharam ke upar paise loot kar. Ganga ke paani aur kharab kar dete hain. Vaise hi Ganga mei factories ka polluted material jata hai. Ye log vahan diwe daal dete hain. Aur pata nahi kya kya. Abhi piche main National Geographic Channel ke upar dekh raha tha. Rajesthan mei koi mandir hai. Vahan itne chuhe(Rats) hain jitne duniya mei kahin nahi honge. Log un chuho(Rats) ko dhoodh pilate hai. Plague jaisi khatarnaak bimari in Chuho se hi aati hai. Aur bhi pata nahi kya kya. Aur bhi pata nahi kya kya sikha diya logon ko. Koi kehta hai ki Tuesday ko drink mat karo aur baaki ke saare baache hue dino mei drink kar lo. Koi sense bani. Pata nahi kya kya andvishvaas daal diye logon mei.Meat mat khao. Pap lag jayega. Aur bhi pata nahi kya kya. Aisa hi pap lagna hota to ye saari duniya hi nahi mar jaati. Faaltu ki baatein faila rakhi hain..

I am going to caution posters, to try and stay with the topic.

If you bring in extraneous material, please point out the relevance. If not do not post.

Ankur,

Your post is somewhat wide ranging and not quite focused.

Anti- Brahmanism , is quite common, but it is not a panacea for all evils, and it is not justified to lay everything at some 'Brahmin’s' door. The rest of us have to take some responsibility too.

For all their faults, the Brahmin’s( or those who came to be called Brahmins) kept alive the Vedic ( later Hindu ) philosophy.

Those who do that, use knowledge, gyan, are Brahmins. Those who do not are not.

Yes there was untouchability, restrictions on who could read the Vedas etc etc. There is no such restriction today- anyone can read the Veda.. Yet how many people do you know who do so?


HINDUISM.

The Dharm, is multifaceted. It has no set structures cast in stone. It changes, it evolves.

Yes, there is a temple in Rajasthan dedicated to the Chua/rat. Rats there, are not killed, they are revered. They symbolized some thing in Hinduism. . “In Hindu mythology, rat holds an important significance. It enjoys the stature of being the vehicle of Hindu God of wisdom Lord 'Ganesha' and is always found next to His statue & images”.

The rats are well fed, clean, healthy. They are not harming anyone.

Why should this become a source of plague?

People have different belief systems- some do not eat meat, some do not eat it on Tuesday. These are social customs, which become ritualized.

The vedic/hindu philosophy, has taken to concept of no meat or limited meat from the Ayurveda and yoga fields. Those fields are pre Hindu. In them it is considered that meat is hard to digest, and is a food that is not good for the body and the brain. No argument there. Jats have been fierce vegetarians.


This restriction was a simple way of getting simple people to eat less meat.

The pros and cons of meat eating can be debated at length, and if you or others wish to do so, please start a separate thread.

This thread is about Jats and religion.

Posters, please stay with that.

Ravi Chaudhary

 

[ankurmalik]

The rats are well fed, clean, healthy. They are not harming anyone.

Why should this become a source of plague?

People have different belief systems- some do not eat meat, some do not eat it on Tuesday. These are social customs, which become ritualized.

You gotta be kidding me. Are you serious? Those Rats are not harming and its very hygienic to have those in our society. Going by that logic one should keep his house full with Rats. Isn't it. As far as what i have written in some others posts. There might be something which is not relevant to the topic but i think 80 percent of that still belongs to the topic. As all people express views, I am also among those people to put my views. Anyways I appreciate your interfere in between discussion which could have derailed the thread because of my views. You can go ahead and delete those which are irrelevant. Thanks.

 

[ravichaudhary]

Dear Satendera,

I am not here to preach. Nor i am showering my knowledge over people to follow what i preach. All I am saying is, What if I accept a Hindu or Muslim or Christian religion. Will that feed those people who are striving for food and shelter. The energy i waste over religion. Should not that energy be used somewhere else more constructive. Following a religion won't help those deprived people live in slums. What will help is you, me, and other members to come forward and discuss how we can help those poor people who seriously need our help. How much we can donate to our society. What I can contribute to the society. Be it finance or some other help. Lets start a thread on this portal and then do some positive instead of writing here 1000 of lines which conclude nothing.

Ankur

People wish to discuss religion, they are welcome to do so. It is not for you or me to stop them.

It is not right to make a blanket statement that religion does not help in poverty( slums or otherwise).

It gives people something to hang on to, while thee confront their daily existence- lack of material things, money etc. they still can follow and teach their children values, ' sanskar'. The vedic/HIndu philosophy is good at that.

They can learn to be pure of mind, to lead their lives with some morals, to acquire knowledge and wisdom. NOthing is stopping well wishers from helping in solving the problems of poverty , providing education etc. That is ongoing , sometimes effective sometimes not.

Here posters are only requested to maintain decorum and stay with the topic- RELIGION and JATS.

What is the relevance of your post to Jats?

Ravi Chaudhary

 

[singhvp]

I second Ankur's thoughts to a great extent. The money which is wasted on construction of religious shrines can be better utilized for more fruitful activities viz. building of schools, improvement of educational standards thereby making quality education within the reach of common man. For the sake of argument, even if it is accepted that there is some supernatural power that governs the whole universe, what is the utility of offering prayers, performing rituals in religious shrines. Is it necessary to show-case our religiosity. Isn't it hypocrisy that we hate mankind and try to please its creator. Who is the final authority to prescribe the ways of worshiping God. What are the proper rituals and why these rituals differ from place to place. Why can not we pay our obeisance to that supernatural power(God) in our heart of hearts while sitting on a cot in our bed-room, or under the shade of a tree. Most of the priests are thugs and hypocrites and people follow them out of ignorance. Jats usually do not fall prey to these priests.

 

[ravichaudhary]

You gotta be kidding me. Are you serious? Those Rats are not harming and its very hygienic to have those in our society. Going by that logic one should keep his house full with Rats. Isn't it. As far as what i have written in some others posts. There might be something which is not relevant to the topic but i think 80 percent of that still belongs to the topic. As all people express views, I am also among those people to put my views. Anyways I appreciate your interfere in between discussion which could have derailed the thread because of my views. You can go ahead and delete those which are irrelevant. Thanks.

Actually I am not 'kidding you'

It is her/his personal priviledge. If they are not harming anyone,including the rat, what is the harm?

Just to emphasize the point - if someone wishes to worship a rat, why should it bother you, me, or anyone else?

Please read up on the significance of a rat in Hinduism.

I would like to think, that jats are very tolerant by nature. The rat temple is in a jat area. The jats allow it, probably also visit it and pay their respects.


Ravi Chaudhary


P.S. I prefer you, and others, self moderate.

 

[ravichaudhary]

@Ravi Chaudhary

Sir, I read your post and also the content, written by Ram Swarup Joon. I found nothing wrong in that content, but I found it incomplete. I have some questions unanswered. I am not asking anybody to answer these question, but I am just talking about these;.

RE post # 20

Upendraji

I would suggest you step back for a moment.

It is a matter of understanding, and getting an idea of how the ancient beliefs have evolved into current Hinduism.

Yes Shiva is a current Hindu Deity. Shiva is also a vey special deity to Jats. There are broadly two streams of Hinduism, Shaivism and Vaishnavism. There are other streams too; some will give the Mata (Devi) prominence. Others will focus on Parmathma. Arya Samaj will focus on the last one.


Overall Hinduism today is a vast accommodating philosophical system.


I quoted Ram Swaroop Joon, as he put his mind to and documented his thinking in his history book. His perspective was of 80- 100 years ago.

He is not, I think, all that far off the mark.

This is not to say that some Jats do not follow the Vaishnav stream, but the majority would see as their deity of choice and many if not the majority would follow the Arya Samaj principles.

There are certain religious customs that are at the core of the Jats beliefs

1) Ancestor worship. A regard for the ancestors, ‘pitrs’. The Jats made small statues which they put in the orchard graves near theory villages. These were called Devta abodes. Regular ceremonies were carried out here. This still continues. At the occasions of marriage, birth, death etc.

2) There was a general lack of ‘mandirs’/temples. At most a small temple existed for Shivaji.

3) The Vaishnav stream, deified Ramchandraji and Krishnaji. Were these historical figures? I am increasingly inclined to think they were.

4) Where did Hanumanji and other deities evolve, and how did the Jat psyche react to, absorb them.



These are some common tenets with current Hindus.

There were and are differences too.

1) The Jats never accepted the Hindu hierarchical Varna (caste) system of Brahmin, Kshatriya, Vaishya, and Shudra...

2) The Jat custom of widow re marriage was the anti thesis of Hindu thought.

3) The Jats respected people of learning, and called them Brahmin. They did not accept that the Brahmin caste had any divine right.


Chotu Ram wrote his religion as Vedic not Hindu. Vedic is closer to traditional Jat belief than Hinduism.

Yes, many of us, if asked, would say ‘we are Hindus’. We would add some caveats.
These are some of my thoughts, others may add

Ravi Chaudhary
..

 

[vairesatendra]

Bro, even if you try to preach, you cant do that as you dont believe in religion.

Bhai, followers of Hinduism try to feed those people who are striving for food and shelter. They organize Bhandara and so on. Probably you dont know about it. But someone will surely help you out to identify that. And they do so without focusing on the Caste and religion of the people. OK. And this is itself a CONSTRUCTIVE work. (may be not for you)

But if you want that it should eradicate poverty and everyone to become affluent, it wont be possible.

You being not a follower of Hinduism, how much you have donated to the society so far? Be if finance or some other help. If you have done something, followers of Hinduism also do that. And I guess better than you.

You mentioned that you,me and others to come forward and try to help the needy people. That is what followers of Hinduism doing. You are only at the point of inception, but people are doing that. The money which they donate can be considered as a common collection by a group of religious people. And this common collection helps the poor. Then how can you say that following a religion is wastage of energy?

One more thing bro, Rats and other animals are also part of nature. Some of the Rats may spread plague, but most of them are also part of nature's cycle. If there are no rats (or any other animal) it will disrupt the Nature Cycle. Likewise, we may have Jats who may be a danger to the civil society, but does that mean that other JATS (including you and me) dont have right to live and should be sentenced to death?

Please think over it bro.

Dear Satendera,

I am not here to preach. Nor i am showering my knowledge over people to follow what i preach. All I am saying is, What if I accept a Hindu or Muslim or Christian religion. Will that feed those people who are striving for food and shelter. The energy i waste over religion. Should not that energy be used somewhere else more constructive. Following a religion won't help those deprived people live in slums. What will help is you, me, and other members to come forward and discuss how we can help those poor people who seriously need our help. How much we can donate to our society. What I can contribute to the society. Be it finance or some other help. Lets start a thread on this portal and then do some positive instead of writing here 1000 of lines which conclude nothing.

 

[vijay123]

VP Singhji, why blame religious shrines or God for poverty or illiteracy? How one wants to pray is up to that person only. You would have heard this line so many times - ab sab kuch upar wale ke haath mei hai. When everything fails, people look for hope in God. Whether He exists or not is a different matter but He certainly can provide hope and willpower to fight on. Logon ke bhagwan ko yaad karne ke tareeke alag alag ho sakate hai par sabka aim ek hi hota hai.

I second Ankur's thoughts to a great extent. The money which is wasted on construction of religious shrines can be better utilized for more fruitful activities viz. building of schools, improvement of educational standards thereby making quality education within the reach of common man. For the sake of argument, even if it is accepted that there is some supernatural power that governs the whole universe, what is the utility of offering prayers, performing rituals in religious shrines. Is it necessary to show-case our religiosity. Isn't it hypocrisy that we hate mankind and try to please its creator. Who is the final authority to prescribe the ways of worshiping God. What are the proper rituals and why these rituals differ from place to place. Why can not we pay our obeisance to that supernatural power(God) in our heart of hearts while sitting on a cot in our bed-room, or under the shade of a tree. Most of the priests are thugs and hypocrites and people follow them out of ignorance. Jats usually do not fall prey to these priests.