Jats Against Reservations

[kapdal]

Main bhi yahi kehna chaah raha tha, bas itne achhe shabd nahin mile...

Kayi baar hum apne chashme utaarne se darte hain aur umar bhar chashmo ki aankho se duniya dekhte hain, hum darte hain apni aankho pe bharosa karne se - aur umar beet jaati hai

aapki baate sahi hain bilkul, par aapki daleelo me ek cheez hai jo ki shayad aapne bhi notice ki to hai par fir usko nazarandaaj kar diya hoga shayad ..... aur wo isliye kyonki kayi baar hum vaastavikta ke suvidhapurn dharatal par itne prem se khade hote hain ki swapno ko sach karne ki himmat kahi dam sa tod deti hai ........

aapne sab arguments ko maana hai ek aur parantu doosri aur aapne unko counter argument se dabaane ki koshish bhi ki hai ....... aur ant me aap kehte hain ki tum apne dhang se karo bhala aur aap apne dhang se karenge ..... aur sahi bhi hai koi dushman to nahi hai yaha apni community ka sab acha hi sochte hain ....

Par ek baat aap bataayenge ki agar reservation ke dam par taraaki ki raah chuni jaaye aur hum ye maan ke baith jaaye ki Jat ya to service hi kar sakta hai ya chaudhar hi to ye drishtikon aapko kitni unnati dila paayega?

Bas guzaara bhar kar lena santushti deta hai sabhi ko, kya itna kaafi hai bas?

kyo nahi kar sakta jat business/entrepreneurship? kya kami hai usme? aur hai to kya hum usko door karne ke liye kuch nahi kare?

Ek nazariya aur suniyega aap - gaanvo me bahut si rishtedaariyaan dekhti aayi hu mai aur aas pados ke logo ke kisse bhi, par dekha ye hai ki gaanvo ke Jat yuva ka bhavishya andhere me hai - wo kaamchor hote ja rahe hain, bete ghoomte firte hain aur ma baap kheto me pil rahe hain, bete ladkiyo ke peeche ghoom rahe hain aur ma baap dhor daangro me pile pade hain .... wo na khet me kaam karna chahte hain aur na hi padhna ...... wo masti karne aur be-roktok jeevan jeene me apna Jatpana samajhne lage hain ..... aur aise log gharwaalo ki minnato ke baad jab naukri paate hain to ye khate hain system ko, aaspaas ke logo ke dimaag ko, naukri ki kamaayi ghoomne aur sharaab me fookte hain - ye reservation hame upar le jaayega?

Maaniye ya nahi par yuva digbhramit ho rahe hain - naukri na hone ki wajah se nahi - akarmath hone ki wajah se !

Mehnat se dar aur maje karne ka shauk ! Aur is par se jab unhe reservation ka jhunjhuna milta hai to wo iska jee tod misuse karte hain

Hame kya jarurat hai doosri community ya doosre pradesho ke baare me discuss karne ki, hamaari problems alag hain, hamaari soch alag hai, hamaari traits alag hai?

Hum me taakat hai par taakat ko direction nahi de paate ....

hamaare paas saadhan hai par lad jhagad ko unko ham chota kar dete hain 1 aur 1 gyarah karne ki bajaaye ....

Agar kisi 12vi me padhne waali ladki ka byah nikaame jat se kar diya jaaye to reservation us ladke ke nikaampepan ko tod dega ya fir wo us nikkampepan ko samaj me failaayega aur uspe TAG laga hoga Jat hone ka !

Aap accident me ghayal hain aur haalat naazuk hai, aur ek reserved category se aaya banda (jo competent nahi hai par fer bhi doctor ban gaya) aap par operate karke aapko zindagi bhar ka dard de jaaye, aisa reservation chahte ho aap kyonki aur log bhi le rahe hain isliye? ya fir isliye ki nikaampa firta ladka aur compounder hi ban paata isse acha hua ki reservation ke bal pe doctor ban baitha ?

Kab tak ham mehnat se muh modenge ye keh ke ki jat ye kar hi nahi sakta ya gaanvo ke pichde logo ko iski jarurat hai?

Kab samjhenge hum ki kayi logo ke pichdne ka kaaran unke pichde hue khayal aur sahi disha me mehnat na karne ki pravaati hoti hai aur is pravaati ka ilaaj jaroori hai na ki unko ye temporary baisaaakhi dena??

 

[jitender_singh]

bhai tumhe aisa kyon lagta hai ki reservation waale padaye enahe ekarte ya fir 1 ya 1 number lekar job s main aa jate hain..aisa bilkul nahe ehai.. reserved cataogry main bhi bahut competition hai espsecially OBC main..tumne IIT ka example diya jahan sc/st ko baakyons e dicrimination jhelna padta hai.. par oBC acs emain aisa nahee hai..aur jahan tak discrimination ki baat hai woh toh private sector main hum jat log ab bhi jhel rahe hain..jat pe jokes maare jaate hain - aa gaya jat dimmag .. aa gaya 16 dooni 8 ..IT sectors main baniyon aur punjabiyon ka bolbala hai.. aur woh apne logon ko kaafee favour dete hain..ek aur baat aapne likha hai - Par bhala chaahne se bhala nahin hotakyaa aap jaante hain ki maine apne jat community ka bhala kiya hai ya nahee.. bina kuch jaane aise comments nahee dein..

Yeh kis type ki argument hai? Main kabhi bhi hum jaison ki baat nahin karr raha tha. Main sabki baat karr raha tha. Main nahin maanta ki gaon main rehne se koi pichhadta hai. Aadmi pichhadta hai jab woh pichhadne ki thaan leta hai (like believing in dogmas ki jat business nahin karr sakte- sirf hal chala sakte hain ya service karr sakte hain) I am basing my arguments on logic and facts. And I have given arguments against the points you have mentioned. You are telling me ki bade bade log support karr rahe hain to theek hi karr rahe honge. Agar koi bada hai to woh hamesha theek hi karega? And I am not doubting anyone's intentions. Par bhala chaahne se bhala nahin hota.

 

[shweta123]

Reservation se milta kya hai - kahi pe admission ya kahi pe naukri.

Kya bas yehi kaafi hain jeevan ko disha dene ke liye?

Kya admission hone bhar se kisi me padhne ki lalak paida ho sakti hai ?

kya naukri milne se jeevan aasaan ho jaata hai ? Sab problem ka The End ??

___________________________________________

Gaana suna hoga aapne 'zindagi har kadam ek nayi jang hai ......'

aur bas yehi sachaayi hai ki insaan ko jitna marji aap paka paka ke khilaate raho uska dil nahi bharega balki wo aalasi hota jaayega ....

jab tak ki wo mehnat karke khud khana paka ke khaane ke maje ko na mehsoos kar le wo zindagi me kaamyaab ho hi nahi sakta .....

apne bachho ko jo laad pyar me kuch kaam karne nahi dete, unke bachhe kamchor ho jaate hain aur kabhi nahi jaan paate khud kar ke khane me kya maja hota hai ..... strong wohi hote hain jo mehnat karte hain, sone ki thaliyo me khane waala kaun strong hua hai aaj tak?

Ache jeevan ke liye aachran, mehnat, doordhrishti, etc etc na jaane kitni cheeze chahiye hoti hai aur sabse jaruri cheez hai DIFFICULTIES !

Har suhaane kaam ka janam difficulty ke garbh se hota hai .... aur jis kaam me difficulty na ho wo suhaana nahi hota .....

Ek bachhe ko duniya me laane se lekar uski parvarish karke bada karne tak har cheez me difficulty hai par in cheezo me shortcuts nahi hote aur agar hum nikaal le shortcuts to prakrati ka ulta chakkar hame majboor kar deta waapas wahi aane ke liye ....

kuch difficulties productive hoti hain aur kuch destructive .... kewal destructive difficulties se insaan ko bachna chahiye ..... apne dam pe kuch kar dikhaana productive nahi hai kya?

 

[shweta123]

bhai tumhe aisa kyon lagta hai ki reservation waale padaye enahe ekarte ya fir 1 ya 1 number lekar job s main aa jate hain..aisa bilkul nahe ehai.. reserved cataogry main bhi bahut competition hai espsecially OBC main..tumne IIT ka example diya jahan sc/st ko baakyons e dicrimination jhelna padta hai.. par oBC acs emain aisa nahee hai..aur jahan tak discrimination ki baat hai woh toh private sector main hum jat log ab bhi jhel rahe hain..jat pe jokes maare jaate hain - aa gaya jat dimmag .. aa gaya 16 dooni 8 ..IT sectors main baniyon aur punjabiyon ka bolbala hai.. aur woh apne logon ko kaafee favour dete hain..ek aur baat aapne likha hai - Par bhala chaahne se bhala nahin hotakyaa aap jaante hain ki maine apne jat community ka bhala kiya hai ya nahee.. bina kuch jaane aise comments nahee dein..

Jitender ji shayad aap sahi hai ki waha bhi competition hai par reservation kayi fields me hai aur kayi jagah iske parinaam bahut bhayankar hote hain.

aur ek bhayankar parinaam bhaari pad jaata hai 10 non-bhaynkar parinaam par seriously speaking the gravity of harm it does at places make it redundant !

arre bolbaal hai to kya hua, favour karte hain to kya hua, ham bhi jam rahe hain wahi date hue hain aur koi dikkat mehsoos nahi hoti hame.... ek din hamaari bhi majority hogi waha ....... wo jab bin reservation waha pe haavi hain to hum bhi ho sakte hain .... yaha examples ki kami nahi hai renowned jats at respecatble positions ki .......... jokes ka kya hai kisi pe bhi bana lo .... sardaaro pe kitne bante hai isse unka kya bigada ?

joke to insaan ghar ke kisi member pe bhi bana deta hai ye to ek normal si cheez hai ...

mai private sector me hu, CA hu jo ki jats me ungliyo pe gine ja sakte hain par kabhi ye mehsoos nahi hua ki mai alag hu kyonki mujhe pata hai ki mai jo hu wo hu aur industry ko meri jarurat hai aur talent hoga to private sector me kaun chahega ki uske kaam ko nuksaan ho ek galat choice se? apne business ki cost pe koi discrimination nahi karta ..... favours ho sakte hain par all together denial of our competency isnt possible !

 

[jitender_singh]

aapne apna paksh bahut hi ache dhang se rakha hai.. aur sach maano main itne ache shabdon ka prayog shayad hi kar paun.. fir bhi koshish karta hoon..

dekhiye reserevd catagory main aane ke baad ais anahe ehai ki hum 900 main se 1 ya 2 number lenge aur humein mbbs main admision mil jaayega.. main jaanta hoon aapne jo neeche likha hai woh yahin se nikalkar aaya hai..

maien bhi woh news dekhi thee jahan 1 number milne par ek st candidate ko mbbs main admision mil gaya tha..

OBC catagory main aisa bilkul nahee hai unka score general candidate se 10-15% hi kam hota hai..

aur aapko yeh kyon lagta hai ki jat obc main aaynge toh unhe admission bahut easily mil jaayega aur moreover wahee nalayak kaamchor aapka ilaaz karenge..

jaisa aapko lagta hai abhi nahee ho raha.. jaakar toh dekhiye sarkari hospital main har ek tarah ke doctor milenge..

deviji jab aadmee kuch hi number se reh jaata hai .. toh usmain ek tarah ki frustration aa jatee hai.. aur aajkal ke time main jahan har taraf paisa hi paisa baras raha hai real estate etc s emostly unemployed youth crime ka raaste pakad lete hain.. yeh hamaree community ki kamjore ehai ki hamare log aisa rasta jaldee pakadte hain..

ab baat ayee facts ki apen jatland pe jo jats rajasthan s ebelong karte hain unse jara poochiye ki after getting a obc status unke economic aur social standard main kitna fark aaya hai..

khud sab kuch saamne aa jaayega..

aur aisa bilkul nahee hai ki jat mehnati nahee hote ya jat youth aaj ki date main mehnat nahee karna chahta..jaroorat hai toh bas oppurtunity milne ki..

kramash:-

Kayi baar hum apne chashme utaarne se darte hain aur umar bhar chashmo ki aankho se duniya dekhte hain, hum darte hain apni aankho pe bharosa karne se - aur umar beet jaati hai

aapki baate sahi hain bilkul, par aapki daleelo me ek cheez hai jo ki shayad aapne bhi notice ki to hai par fir usko nazarandaaj kar diya hoga shayad ..... aur wo isliye kyonki kayi baar hum vaastavikta ke suvidhapurn dharatal par itne prem se khade hote hain ki swapno ko sach karne ki himmat kahi dam sa tod deti hai ........

aapne sab arguments ko maana hai ek aur parantu doosri aur aapne unko counter argument se dabaane ki koshish bhi ki hai ....... aur ant me aap kehte hain ki tum apne dhang se karo bhala aur aap apne dhang se karenge ..... aur sahi bhi hai koi dushman to nahi hai yaha apni community ka sab acha hi sochte hain ....

Par ek baat aap bataayenge ki agar reservation ke dam par taraaki ki raah chuni jaaye aur hum ye maan ke baith jaaye ki Jat ya to service hi kar sakta hai ya chaudhar hi to ye drishtikon aapko kitni unnati dila paayega?

Bas guzaara bhar kar lena santushti deta hai sabhi ko, kya itna kaafi hai bas?

kyo nahi kar sakta jat business/entrepreneurship? kya kami hai usme? aur hai to kya hum usko door karne ke liye kuch nahi kare?

Ek nazariya aur suniyega aap - gaanvo me bahut si rishtedaariyaan dekhti aayi hu mai aur aas pados ke logo ke kisse bhi, par dekha ye hai ki gaanvo ke Jat yuva ka bhavishya andhere me hai - wo kaamchor hote ja rahe hain, bete ghoomte firte hain aur ma baap kheto me pil rahe hain, bete ladkiyo ke peeche ghoom rahe hain aur ma baap dhor daangro me pile pade hain .... wo na khet me kaam karna chahte hain aur na hi padhna ...... wo masti karne aur be-roktok jeevan jeene me apna Jatpana samajhne lage hain ..... aur aise log gharwaalo ki minnato ke baad jab naukri paate hain to ye khate hain system ko, aaspaas ke logo ke dimaag ko, naukri ki kamaayi ghoomne aur sharaab me fookte hain - ye reservation hame upar le jaayega?

Maaniye ya nahi par yuva digbhramit ho rahe hain - naukri na hone ki wajah se nahi - akarmath hone ki wajah se !

Mehnat se dar aur maje karne ka shauk ! Aur is par se jab unhe reservation ka jhunjhuna milta hai to wo iska jee tod misuse karte hain

Hame kya jarurat hai doosri community ya doosre pradesho ke baare me discuss karne ki, hamaari problems alag hain, hamaari soch alag hai, hamaari traits alag hai?

Hum me taakat hai par taakat ko direction nahi de paate ....

hamaare paas saadhan hai par lad jhagad ko unko ham chota kar dete hain 1 aur 1 gyarah karne ki bajaaye ....

Agar kisi 12vi me padhne waali ladki ka byah nikaame jat se kar diya jaaye to reservation us ladke ke nikaampepan ko tod dega ya fir wo us nikkampepan ko samaj me failaayega aur uspe TAG laga hoga Jat hone ka !

Aap accident me ghayal hain aur haalat naazuk hai, aur ek reserved category se aaya banda (jo competent nahi hai par fer bhi doctor ban gaya) aap par operate karke aapko zindagi bhar ka dard de jaaye, aisa reservation chahte ho aap kyonki aur log bhi le rahe hain isliye? ya fir isliye ki nikaampa firta ladka aur compounder hi ban paata isse acha hua ki reservation ke bal pe doctor ban baitha ?

Kab tak ham mehnat se muh modenge ye keh ke ki jat ye kar hi nahi sakta ya gaanvo ke pichde logo ko iski jarurat hai?

Kab samjhenge hum ki kayi logo ke pichdne ka kaaran unke pichde hue khayal aur sahi disha me mehnat na karne ki pravaati hoti hai aur is pravaati ka ilaaj jaroori hai na ki unko ye temporary baisaaakhi dena??

 

[shweta123]

aapne apna paksh bahut hi ache dhang se rakha hai.. aur sach maano main itne ache shabdon ka prayog shayad hi kar paun.. fir bhi koshish karta hoon..

dekhiye reserevd catagory main aane ke baad ais anahe ehai ki hum 900 main se 1 ya 2 number lenge aur humein mbbs main admision mil jaayega.. main jaanta hoon aapne jo neeche likha hai woh yahin se nikalkar aaya hai..

maien bhi woh news dekhi thee jahan 1 number milne par ek st candidate ko mbbs main admision mil gaya tha..

OBC catagory main aisa bilkul nahee hai unka score general candidate se 10-15% hi kam hota hai..

aur aapko yeh kyon lagta hai ki jat obc main aaynge toh unhe admission bahut easily mil jaayega aur moreover wahee nalayak kaamchor aapka ilaaz karenge..

jaisa aapko lagta hai abhi nahee ho raha.. jaakar toh dekhiye sarkari hospital main har ek tarah ke doctor milenge..

deviji jab aadmee kuch hi number se reh jaata hai .. toh usmain ek tarah ki frustration aa jatee hai.. aur aajkal ke time main jahan har taraf paisa hi paisa baras raha hai real estate etc s emostly unemployed youth crime ka raaste pakad lete hain.. yeh hamaree community ki kamjore ehai ki hamare log aisa rasta jaldee pakadte hain..

ab baat ayee facts ki apen jatland pe jo jats rajasthan s ebelong karte hain unse jara poochiye ki after getting a obc status unke economic aur social standard main kitna fark aaya hai..

khud sab kuch saamne aa jaayega..

aur aisa bilkul nahee hai ki jat mehnati nahee hote ya jat youth aaj ki date main mehnat nahee karna chahta..jaroorat hai toh bas oppurtunity milne ki..

kramash:-

us 1 ya 2 number ki value bahut hoti hai - kismat palatate dekha hai iski wajah se .... isliye maine kaha ki ek jagah ke ache parinaam ko dekhne bhar se kaam nahi banega, dushparinaamo ki gravity ko bhi ignore nahi kiya ja sakta .... aur ek toughtful reservation plan India me kabhi laagoo hua hi nahi !

Ye thoughtful hota to aaj ye naubat hi nahi aati ...... resrvation buri cheez nahi hai .... par it depends on system and the type of system we have makes it bad in real sense ....

 

[kapdal]

Dost pehle to clarification- bhala chaahne se bhala nahin hota is a generic statement and not a comment on anyone. Mera matlab saaf tha- ki sirf bhala chaahne se bhala nahin hota. Aap bhala chaahte hue aise kaam karr sakte ho, jisse bura ho jaaye (and according to me reservations falls in that category. My parents wanted to get me an OBC certificate- woh mere bhala chaahte the par bura karr rahe the).

Baat yeh nahin hai ki reservation waale padhaai nahin karte, baat yeh hai ki woh utni hi mehnat karte hain jitni naukri paane ke liye zaroori hai. And that is not good enough for a successful career. Main maanta hoon ki jab main IIT main tha to OBC quota nahin tha. Par fir bhi OBC waali baat lagoo hoti hai. General waala OBC waale ko inferior samjhega chunki general waale ne kisi quote ki madad nahin li. Aur OBC waala khud ko inferior samjhega, usse hamesha heen bhawna rahegi. Agar usmain heen bhawna na hoti, toh woh quote ki madad hi na leta. I know people who are technically SC, but still come through general as they don't want the blemish of quota on themselves. Fir jab achhi companies recruit karne aayengi, to recruiter khud merit main vishwaas rakhne waala hoga aur uske mann main bias hoga ki quote waale main merit nahin hai. I have seen it as a student and as a recruiter.

Another point- you sort of contradict yourself by talking about competition in the OBC category itself. When meritorious jats are already making it through general, how many more would be able to make it through a crowded OBC category? Aisa to nahin hai ki reservation milegi aur gaon main sab berozgaaron ko naukri mil jaayegi. Ikke dukke extra aadmi ko milegi. You need more jobs and more development to reduce unemployment and not reservations. Please look at the overall picture- reducing and unattractive govt. sector, crowded OBC category and the reverse discrimination against quota people. And it is clear that reservations will have a hugely negative impact.

Ab aate hain discrimination par. Firstly, there are all types of people in all communities. There will be plenty amongst Jats who discriminate against other communities whenever given a chance. So it is not as if we are always at the receiving end of it. But if discrimination was omnipresent, then how come you were hired by the company in the first place? Cracking jokes is not a sign of discrimination. Main apne south Indian doston ko maddu, ravanaputra, etc. bulata hoon. Baniyon, bihariyon, etc. ko kuchh aur. They joke about me being a jat. It is all in good humor. Overall, I think a Jat's image is of a direct, slightly rude, humorous and trustworthy person- on balance a positive image. And there is no systematic discrimination against us.

bhai tumhe aisa kyon lagta hai ki reservation waale padaye enahe ekarte ya fir 1 ya 1 number lekar job s main aa jate hain..aisa bilkul nahe ehai.. reserved cataogry main bhi bahut competition hai espsecially OBC main..tumne IIT ka example diya jahan sc/st ko baakyons e dicrimination jhelna padta hai.. par oBC acs emain aisa nahee hai..aur jahan tak discrimination ki baat hai woh toh private sector main hum jat log ab bhi jhel rahe hain..jat pe jokes maare jaate hain - aa gaya jat dimmag .. aa gaya 16 dooni 8 ..IT sectors main baniyon aur punjabiyon ka bolbala hai.. aur woh apne logon ko kaafee favour dete hain..ek aur baat aapne likha hai - Par bhala chaahne se bhala nahin hotakyaa aap jaante hain ki maine apne jat community ka bhala kiya hai ya nahee.. bina kuch jaane aise comments nahee dein..

 

[shekhar_nehra]

Yes Very Good points have come out in this discussion so far.

There are no short cuts to success and in order to compete in this competitive world we need not pull down the bar but raise our standard. Tell me how many of us have actually availed the benefit of reservation ? I did not even think of getting any kind of OBC certificate. I just can not get it ... when I firmly believe that I can compete with any one in this world to get what I really need, if not I will develop that quality. I am equal in capabilities and I am not inferior to any one in any respect, I can really try hard and get it. This site is full of people who have never thought of being branded as OBC and swim in a small pond and compete with few and not learn to swim in ocean.

Just for argument's sake even if all of us agree to reservation and its implemented for Jats in Haryana, UP , Rajasthan , Delhi and Center as well. What benefit it does to community ? Does that ensure that all Jats have an assured seat in good colleges and jobs. We still have to compete and compete against below normal candidates ( lower in their morale as they fear that they are not good enough to be in general category , hence I say below normal ). This feeling of being inferior would actually harm our image in long run.

Reservation is nothing but an eye wash and a tool used by politicians to play with your emotions, selling you your dreams of a bright future and taking your votes.

Reservation has never been understood in its true sense. Take an example of a school where a child joins a class in middle of a session and has shifted say from south India to some where in North India and there are variations in subjects and syllabus being followed. Hindi being a subject here in north and the child does not know hindi very well. It is justified that since that child is at a disadvantageous position and needs to pick up hindi in a short time , he/ she being relaxed in this subject till he /she learns it and not to hold him/her in the same class and being given a grace mark till he/she comes at desired level , when normal marking can be done. Where as not to make it a point that since the child does not know this subject(hindi) he will not learn it and be exempted from Hindi exam forever in his/her life and no attempt will be made to teach this subject.
It is exactly the second kind of approach that is being done with implementation of reservation people are being branded that they belong to this class and will never be able to compete with general/ normal people and always need relaxation with marking and hence compromising with quality.

That is all for the time being.

Regards
Shekhar Nehra

 

[ravindersura]

तेवतिया पाल ने जाट आरक्षण के मुद्दे पर जाट आरक्षण संघर्ष समिति को समर्थन दे दिया है। तेवतिया पाल की पंचायत सोमवार को जाट धर्मशाला में हुई। इसकी अध्यक्षता पाल के चौधरी सूरत सिंह जनौली ने की।
पंचायत में जाट आरक्षण संघर्ष समिति के अध्यक्ष तथा कलकत्ता उच्च न्यायालय के पूर्व न्यायाधीश देवी सिंह तेवतिया ने जाट आरक्षण के मुद्दे पर तेवतिया पाल का समर्थन मांगा। पाल के चौधरियों ने विचार विमर्श कर जाट आरक्षण का समर्थन कर दिया। अब तेवतिया पाल जाट आरक्षण की मांग को लेकर होने वाले कार्यक्रमों में हिस्सा लेगी।
पंचायत को रघुवीर सिंह तेवतिया, लक्ष्मण सिंह तेवतिया, ओमप्रकाश तेवतिया, दुलीचंद शास्त्री, गुलजारी जेलदार, टेकराम कौंडल, बलराम मास्टर, सतवीर सदरपुर, बिजेंद्र आर्य, लखीराम तेवतिया, लेखराज तंवर, बालकराम शास्त्री, धर्मवीर ठोंडा आदि ने संबोधित किया। इस अवसर पर समिति के नेता भगत सिंह दलाल तथा खेमचंद कुंडू भी मौजूद थे।

 

[vivekgathwala]

khench de sura in bawlaaa ne ye sariii baat bat de kayi ade ganee pade lhke s unne ghane jaroorat s ....... inbata ne janan ki .ar rahi baat reservation ki .............. ade te kayi ise admi s s jinne reservation ki puri baat ka hi na bera bas copy bandan te matlab s ....

yahan likh te nue de s ...jukar te reservation ke saree clau bera s ....
bhai ade ....ek te bhi nue boojh le asal main reservation s ..k nue t bata do joo tham iste nue darte bhajoo sooo .koi nue keh s main sc/bc ki line main kyun khada houunn ...
koi nue keh s ki hamne jaroorat hi ke s hum general hi hooke itna aage badh chukee hai ...


bhai ek baat bataoon

agar humne reservation mil ja s t hum sare ke kamyab s

ar ya reservation private naukri /baniye ki naukri mian konya count hota

yoo bhi sarkarii naukrii main count hoo s jo ki bahut jaroori s
jat upliftment main agar jat ko upar uthana hai to humne sarkari naukriyoo main jat chahiye hi chahiye taki voo age chalkar jataoo ko hi naukri milne main madad kare

..ar bhai nue barne beth ke ar jatan ke bare main chinta kyun thya karoo jab kime bera hi na hoo ...kuch ground pe work karooo

ar ade jatooo ne mat bhalooo ki humne reservation nahi chahiyee
tham te saree naukrii peetoo soo ...thamne nue na bera ki aaj gam main ke halat s loga ke .....ar mere khyal te thari te umar hi ja li reservation main aan ki ...

ar rahi business to usne bhi shuru hon main aaj te din har chej dekhi ja s ..agar aaj aap petrol /pump/gas agency lete hoo to bhi sarkar nue puche s ki aap kkonsi category main aao soo


rajsashtan main jab se jatoo ko aarakshan mila s jab se aaj tak 45 RAS jat officers lage hai ...jo ki apne aap main jatoo ke liye bahut badi uplabdhi s


joo ki jatoo ke liye bahut kam ayegii.......esi cheej ke liye hum aaj haryana or center main is reservation ki demand kar rahe hai .......na ki yahan neta banne ke liye ....


ya gana ke style batane ke liye



agar aap jataoo ke bhale ke bare main nahi sochtee to bura bhii mat sochoo ................or maine personelly...gaon main logoon kooo is chej ki demand karte dekha hai .........unhe ye baat samj main aagayii jo kii .....itne padhe likhe nahi hai ...........

abhi peche hi MEHAM main 5000 logoo ne iska suppot kiya hai or age chalkar palwal main 9 jan or meerut main 8 feb ko...jat .reservation ki demand ke liye rally karenge or 20se 25 hazar ki tadad main log hissa lenge ..............kyunki voo apne bachoo ke bare main kuch sochte hai or apne fayde ke bare main jantee hai


agar reservation se koi nuksan hota to pandit nehru brahmano ko reserve category main nali dalvata
brahman to ucshreni ke log hai ..............jo log kehte hain







agar kuch kar sakoo hoo tooo ...jatoo ke bare main bhalaee ki sochoo na ki unke .....nuksan ki



dhyevad




JAI JAT JAI BHAGWAN

 

[kapdal]

Aapka har ek point aap pehle dohra chuke hain aur har ek point main khot nikaali ja chuki hai. Fir bhi aap same hi baat repeat kiye ja rahe hain doosron ki baat ko counter karne ke bajaay. Das baar bolne se jhoot sach nahin ho jaata. Ek aur baat- aap fir se point pe baat karne ke bajaay point pe baat karne waalon pe baat karr rahe hain. This sort of spurious character assasination is practised by politicians of the worst kind.

khench de sura in bawlaaa ne ye sariii baat bat de kayi ade ganee pade lhke s unne ghane jaroorat s ....... inbata ne janan ki .ar rahi baat reservation ki .............. ade te kayi ise admi s s jinne reservation ki puri baat ka hi na bera bas copy bandan te matlab s ....

yahan likh te nue de s ...jukar te reservation ke saree clau bera s ....
bhai ade ....ek te bhi nue boojh le asal main reservation s ..k nue t bata do joo tham iste nue darte bhajoo sooo .koi nue keh s main sc/bc ki line main kyun khada houunn ...
koi nue keh s ki hamne jaroorat hi ke s hum general hi hooke itna aage badh chukee hai ...


bhai ek baat bataoon

agar humne reservation mil ja s t hum sare ke kamyab s

ar ya reservation private naukri /baniye ki naukri mian konya count hota

yoo bhi sarkarii naukrii main count hoo s jo ki bahut jaroori s
jat upliftment main agar jat ko upar uthana hai to humne sarkari naukriyoo main jat chahiye hi chahiye taki voo age chalkar jataoo ko hi naukri milne main madad kare

..ar bhai nue barne beth ke ar jatan ke bare main chinta kyun thya karoo jab kime bera hi na hoo ...kuch ground pe work karooo

ar ade jatooo ne mat bhalooo ki humne reservation nahi chahiyee
tham te saree naukrii peetoo soo ...thamne nue na bera ki aaj gam main ke halat s loga ke .....ar mere khyal te thari te umar hi ja li reservation main aan ki ...

ar rahi business to usne bhi shuru hon main aaj te din har chej dekhi ja s ..agar aaj aap petrol /pump/gas agency lete hoo to bhi sarkar nue puche s ki aap kkonsi category main aao soo


rajsashtan main jab se jatoo ko aarakshan mila s jab se aaj tak 45 RAS jat officers lage hai ...jo ki apne aap main jatoo ke liye bahut badi uplabdhi s


joo ki jatoo ke liye bahut kam ayegii.......esi cheej ke liye hum aaj haryana main is reservation ki demand kar rahe hai .......na ki yahan neta banne ke liye ....


ya gana ke style batane ke liye



agar aap jataoo ke bhale ke bare main nahi sochtee to bura bhii mat sochoo ................or maine personelly...gaon main logoon kooo is chej ki demand karte dekha hai .........unhe ye baat samj main aagayii jo kii .....itne padhe likhe nahi hai ...........

abhi peche hi MEHAM main 5000 logoo ne iska suppot kiya hai or age chalkar palwal main 9 jan or meerut main 8 feb ko...jat .reservation ki demand ke liye rally karenge or 20se 25 hazar ki tadad main log hissa lenge ..............kyunki voo apne bachoo ke bare main kuch sochte hai or apne fayde ke bare main jantee hai



agar kuch kar sakoo hoo tooo ...jatoo ke bare main bhalaee ki sochoo na ki unke .....nuksan ki



dhyevad




JAI JAT JAI BHAGWAN

 

[vivekgathwala]

bhai m apke gyan ka kayal hogaya ...or mujhe mafii dijiye miane apka kimti smay vyarth kiya


eb bera patt gay ki untt ko rail main bithana or jat ko samjhan bahut hi mushkil s

 

[jitender_singh]

bhai bilkul samjh gayab yeh baat ki jat ko samjhana bahut mushkil kaam hai..tabhi jaton ko yeh haal hai..
yeh debate khatam nahe ehone waala..us cheez pe debate chal raha hai jo abhi mili bhi nahe ehai.. mil jaayegee toh pata nahe ekya bawaal hoga..
no further comments from my side...

Dost pehle to clarification- bhala chaahne se bhala nahin hota is a generic statement and not a comment on anyone. Mera matlab saaf tha- ki sirf bhala chaahne se bhala nahin hota. Aap bhala chaahte hue aise kaam karr sakte ho, jisse bura ho jaaye (and according to me reservations falls in that category. My parents wanted to get me an OBC certificate- woh mere bhala chaahte the par bura karr rahe the).

Baat yeh nahin hai ki reservation waale padhaai nahin karte, baat yeh hai ki woh utni hi mehnat karte hain jitni naukri paane ke liye zaroori hai. And that is not good enough for a successful career. Main maanta hoon ki jab main IIT main tha to OBC quota nahin tha. Par fir bhi OBC waali baat lagoo hoti hai. General waala OBC waale ko inferior samjhega chunki general waale ne kisi quote ki madad nahin li. Aur OBC waala khud ko inferior samjhega, usse hamesha heen bhawna rahegi. Agar usmain heen bhawna na hoti, toh woh quote ki madad hi na leta. I know people who are technically SC, but still come through general as they don't want the blemish of quota on themselves. Fir jab achhi companies recruit karne aayengi, to recruiter khud merit main vishwaas rakhne waala hoga aur uske mann main bias hoga ki quote waale main merit nahin hai. I have seen it as a student and as a recruiter.

Another point- you sort of contradict yourself by talking about competition in the OBC category itself. When meritorious jats are already making it through general, how many more would be able to make it through a crowded OBC category? Aisa to nahin hai ki reservation milegi aur gaon main sab berozgaaron ko naukri mil jaayegi. Ikke dukke extra aadmi ko milegi. You need more jobs and more development to reduce unemployment and not reservations. Please look at the overall picture- reducing and unattractive govt. sector, crowded OBC category and the reverse discrimination against quota people. And it is clear that reservations will have a hugely negative impact.

Ab aate hain discrimination par. Firstly, there are all types of people in all communities. There will be plenty amongst Jats who discriminate against other communities whenever given a chance. So it is not as if we are always at the receiving end of it. But if discrimination was omnipresent, then how come you were hired by the company in the first place? Cracking jokes is not a sign of discrimination. Main apne south Indian doston ko maddu, ravanaputra, etc. bulata hoon. Baniyon, bihariyon, etc. ko kuchh aur. They joke about me being a jat. It is all in good humor. Overall, I think a Jat's image is of a direct, slightly rude, humorous and trustworthy person- on balance a positive image. And there is no systematic discrimination against us.

 

[sanjeev_balyan]

Aapka har ek point aap pehle dohra chuke hain aur har ek point main khot nikaali ja chuki hai. Fir bhi aap same hi baat repeat kiye ja rahe hain doosron ki baat ko counter karne ke bajaay. Das baar bolne se jhoot sach nahin ho jaata. Ek aur baat- aap fir se point pe baat karne ke bajaay point pe baat karne waalon pe baat karr rahe hain. This sort of spurious character assasination is practised by politicians of the worst kind.

Kapil bhai,
This topic has already been discussed several times here at JL with a lot of hot and detailed arguments but every thread was closed or forced to closed without any conclusion. You have started again with new points and angles. yr thoughts r good at yr frame of mind. every intellectual (JAT or any body even SC/ST) will think in that way only. I want yr comments on follwing points. and I will request every body to take the others views in good spirit, not in a personal attack

1. Topic of thread is Jats against reservation
. however it has been discussed as reservation Vs non reservation in most of the posts. I beleive, you also dont have any issue about reservation of OBC for Yadavs/gujjars etc and of course for SC /ST. But you r against the JATS and given all logic. My point is, Now Yadavs and gujjars r there and Jat is not there, what is happening i am giving the examples
I will start from IIT/Medicals/and other top level institutions. some children of OBC and SC/ST r getting admission and Jats boys/ girls (who couldnt get in general) r out, these children r far far better and intelligent than those who got under reservation under OBC / SC/ST. Whta they will feel. Accepting the reservation doesnt mean that Jats will not do hard effort and become lazy. Every indl has his / her own intellectual level. all cant go to IIT/IIMs. So if u cant eliminate the reservation from the system than it is better to be part of it. we r discussing for the KAUM. Defenitly JAT KAUM will improve after getting it. I m not a politician.

2. Members here at JL (specially the active ones) r not representing the JAT samaj. u go in interior villages and see the condition. Our traditional job agriculture is not enough now as generation by generation land is being divided. so they have to do anything to get the source of income from outside the traditional one , let it be Govt/ private / business to any thing good. If a guy is fit for peon only than let it be, allow him to take that job with reservation. Hard work done by him cant crack the JEE. Intellectual level is GOD gift. everybody cant go in IIT just like u and others. Think for them also.

3. U see the Gujjars and Meenas drama every year in Jun. Farmers r free in Jun. U see any list of any exam conducted by UPSC. all ST quota is filled by Meenas, is this ST quota is really meant for them??? Far Far better and intelligent JATs guys r not getting, than what is the gain to become ideal. Fight against the rservation in any form and if it is not possible than we should also fight to get it.

4 this is not a tpoic for a classroom debate or group discussion here, if we really want some more improvement in our cast tahn we should go for it, let it be wrong on idealism.

 

[kapdal]

Balyan bhai,

If you go through the entire thread, you'd see that all your points have already been answered. Still I'll like to answer your points.

1. As I have stated before, no one can prove that any of the communities that have already got reservations have truly progressed. Can you think of an example of any Meena who has taken the route of reservation and has done something exemplary in his field? Even after 50 years of reservations, the meenas that come to IIT are not able to compete with general category. But I can think of so many academic and non-academic fields where Jats can be exemplified. And I am not just talking about famous ones like Sehwag or Vijender Singh or army men. Even at smaller levels, you will see many Jats doing extremely well. I have given my reasoning for this quite a few times before. 50 years from now- do we want Jats to be leading in all fields or do we want to see them where Meenas are now? Reservations are like drugs- you'd feel short-term euphoria but in the long term it would weaken you from inside. Even Ambedkar was not in favor of reservations beyond first 10 years- he had other social and political agendas, but politics ensured that only reservations were remembered and everything else was forgotten.

You also mentioned disappointment of jats who are not able to make it through general category. But there would still be lots of jat children who won't be able to make it through OBC category. Let's take an example. Assume there are 100 seats in an institute. And that 500 jats are trying to get in there. Right now, they are competing for 50 seats in general and assume 5 get through. If they were to compete from OBC, firstly they'd have been competing for only 30 seats. We can assume that the 5 who got through general are good enough to go through OBC as well. Now of the 25 seats left in OBC, in how many more would jats be able to make it? 2 more? or 5 more at best? In the extreme scenario, all 30 would go to jats (this is clearly not possible but i am just building an argument). What about the rest 470 jats? They would still be disappointed. This example can be applied to any job/institute and the actual figures would be worse than my example. The problem is of lack of opportunities. Reservations don't create any new opportunities. They merely shift the focus from the actual problem.

Moreover, those who enter the institute from OBC category, would have an inferiority complex. I have also explained the reverse discrimination which happens against reserved category students during recruitments.

Since you asked me why the thread is "Jats against reservations"- as an Indian, I have an issue with anyone asking for reservations. But as a Jat, I can only debate it more thoroughly within my community. As they would know that it is not out of hatred but out of genuine concern. I can only hope that there are Yadavs and Gujjars who oppose it within their community.

2. I have mentioned before that I was never thinking from an elitist point of view. I myself belong to middle class with most of my relatives still spread across villages in Haryana. No work is inferior- not even peon's. But one must not start believing that we are only good for so and so jobs. That's a defeatist mindset. What is needed for development of people in villages is creation of more opportunities.

3. Do we want to fight just for the sake of fighting? As I said before, Meenas just fill the quotas. They have stopped even thinking beyond it. If you think Meenas have become a progressive community, then I won't argue further. I would never want to belong to such a community.

4. I started the discussion as I want to put it across to those leading the demand for reservations. I think they are committing a grave mistake and hence they should think about the points put forward by other members of the community.

Kapil bhai,
This topic has already been discussed several times here at JL with a lot of hot and detailed arguments but every thread was closed or forced to closed without any conclusion. You have started again with new points and angles. yr thoughts r good at yr frame of mind. every intellectual (JAT or any body even SC/ST) will think in that way only. I want yr comments on follwing points. and I will request every body to take the others views in good spirit, not in a personal attack

1. Topic of thread is Jats against reservation
. however it has been discussed as reservation Vs non reservation in most of the posts. I beleive, you also dont have any issue about reservation of OBC for Yadavs/gujjars etc and of course for SC /ST. But you r against the JATS and given all logic. My point is, Now Yadavs and gujjars r there and Jat is not there, what is happening i am giving the examples
I will start from IIT/Medicals/and other top level institutions. some children of OBC and SC/ST r getting admission and Jats boys/ girls (who couldnt get in general) r out, these children r far far better and intelligent than those who got under reservation under OBC / SC/ST. Whta they will feel. Accepting the reservation doesnt mean that Jats will not do hard effort and become lazy. Every indl has his / her own intellectual level. all cant go to IIT/IIMs. So if u cant eliminate the reservation from the system than it is better to be part of it. we r discussing for the KAUM. Defenitly JAT KAUM will improve after getting it. I m not a politician.

2. Members here at JL (specially the active ones) r not representing the JAT samaj. u go in interior villages and see the condition. Our traditional job agriculture is not enough now as generation by generation land is being divided. so they have to do anything to get the source of income from outside the traditional one , let it be Govt/ private / business to any thing good. If a guy is fit for peon only than let it be, allow him to take that job with reservation. Hard work done by him cant crack the JEE. Intellectual level is GOD gift. everybody cant go in IIT just like u and others. Think for them also.

3. U see the Gujjars and Meenas drama every year in Jun. Farmers r free in Jun. U see any list of any exam conducted by UPSC. all ST quota is filled by Meenas, is this ST quota is really meant for them??? Far Far better and intelligent JATs guys r not getting, than what is the gain to become ideal. Fight against the rservation in any form and if it is not possible than we should also fight to get it.

4 this is not a tpoic for a classroom debate or group discussion here, if we really want some more improvement in our cast tahn we should go for it, let it be wrong on idealism.

 

[shweta123]

.............................

Meenas just fill the quotas. They have stopped even thinking beyond it. If you think Meenas have become a progressive community, then I won't argue further. I would never want to belong to such a community.

And that is it !

Sanjeev's point do take us to another platform of mass communal welfare but this point in red above cant be overlooked if we wish to keep into our mind long term plans backed with vision & foresight !

Just a simple question it is, what exemplary the reserved categories have done till date?

Some people do get benefited undoubtedly but then isnt it a negative impact that our thinking gets entangled within the shackles of the walls of reservation?

If one knows in advance that he will have means for survival without working too hard then how much is the probability that he will look beyond it and work harder without being lured by the easy opportunities?

Believe it or not, its humane to choose the easiest way most of the time and it is what is happening ! There are people who dare to look at things differently but such people are very less in numbers.

How many gujjars, yadavs, meenas are heading the big corporates or are renowned technicians or scholars? They are busy earning easy breads and they have limited themselves to it!

On the one hand we will aid our community, but on the other hand we will be limiting their horizons by reservation.

 

[jitender_singh]

Kapil Bhai...aapke reservation waale example par aate hain.. aapne kaha 100 seat hain aur 500 jat candidate aur 30 obc ki seat hain..
ek creamy layer naam ki cheez bhi hote hai.. toh kuch jats obc hone ka baad bhi general se hi apply kar payenge..
e.g. 200 jat creamy layer s eupar hain aur 50 seats ke liye compete karte hain aur 300 jat 30 seat ke liye compete karte hain..
agar 200 main se 5 jat qualify kar gaye aur udhar 30 main se 15 bhi nikaal le gaye toh total hua 5 + 15 = 20 jo ki pehle sirf 5 hi hota..

Balyan bhai,

If you go through the entire thread, you'd see that all your points have already been answered. Still I'll like to answer your points.

1. As I have stated before, no one can prove that any of the communities that have already got reservations have truly progressed. Can you think of an example of any Meena who has taken the route of reservation and has done something exemplary in his field? Even after 50 years of reservations, the meenas that come to IIT are not able to compete with general category. But I can think of so many academic and non-academic fields where Jats can be exemplified. And I am not just talking about famous ones like Sehwag or Vijender Singh or army men. Even at smaller levels, you will see many Jats doing extremely well. I have given my reasoning for this quite a few times before. 50 years from now- do we want Jats to be leading in all fields or do we want to see them where Meenas are now? Reservations are like drugs- you'd feel short-term euphoria but in the long term it would weaken you from inside. Even Ambedkar was not in favor of reservations beyond first 10 years- he had other social and political agendas, but politics ensured that only reservations were remembered and everything else was forgotten.

You also mentioned disappointment of jats who are not able to make it through general category. But there would still be lots of jat children who won't be able to make it through OBC category. Let's take an example. Assume there are 100 seats in an institute. And that 500 jats are trying to get in there. Right now, they are competing for 50 seats in general and assume 5 get through. If they were to compete from OBC, firstly they'd have been competing for only 30 seats. We can assume that the 5 who got through general are good enough to go through OBC as well. Now of the 25 seats left in OBC, in how many more would jats be able to make it? 2 more? or 5 more at best? In the extreme scenario, all 30 would go to jats (this is clearly not possible but i am just building an argument). What about the rest 470 jats? They would still be disappointed. This example can be applied to any job/institute and the actual figures would be worse than my example. The problem is of lack of opportunities. Reservations don't create any new opportunities. They merely shift the focus from the actual problem.

Moreover, those who enter the institute from OBC category, would have an inferiority complex. I have also explained the reverse discrimination which happens against reserved category students during recruitments.

Since you asked me why the thread is "Jats against reservations"- as an Indian, I have an issue with anyone asking for reservations. But as a Jat, I can only debate it more thoroughly within my community. As they would know that it is not out of hatred but out of genuine concern. I can only hope that there are Yadavs and Gujjars who oppose it within their community.

2. I have mentioned before that I was never thinking from an elitist point of view. I myself belong to middle class with most of my relatives still spread across villages in Haryana. No work is inferior- not even peon's. But one must not start believing that we are only good for so and so jobs. That's a defeatist mindset. What is needed for development of people in villages is creation of more opportunities.

3. Do we want to fight just for the sake of fighting? As I said before, Meenas just fill the quotas. They have stopped even thinking beyond it. If you think Meenas have become a progressive community, then I won't argue further. I would never want to belong to such a community.

4. I started the discussion as I want to put it across to those leading the demand for reservations. I think they are committing a grave mistake and hence they should think about the points put forward by other members of the community.

 

[jitender_singh]

aap big corporates ki baat karte hain .. aur yeh bhi maante honge ki baniya community ismain sabse aage hai..aapki jaankari ke liye .. baniyon ko bihar main obc ka darja haasil hai..

And that is it !

Sanjeev's point do take us to another platform of mass communal welfare but this point in red above cant be overlooked if we wish to keep into our mind long term plans backed with vision & foresight !

Just a simple question it is, what exemplary the reserved categories have done till date?

Some people do get benefited undoubtedly but then isnt it a negative impact that our thinking gets entangled within the shackles of the walls of reservation?

If one knows in advance that he will have means for survival without working too hard then how much is the probability that he will look beyond it and work harder without being lured by the easy opportunities?

Believe it or not, its humane to choose the easiest way most of the time and it is what is happening ! There are people who dare to look at things differently but such people are very less in numbers.

How many gujjars, yadavs, meenas are heading the big corporates or are renowned technicians or scholars? They are busy earning easy breads and they have limited themselves to it!

On the one hand we will aid our community, but on the other hand we will be limiting their horizons by reservation.

 

[shweta123]

aap big corporates ki baat karte hain .. aur yeh bhi maante honge ki baniya community ismain sabse aage hai..aapki jaankari ke liye .. baniyon ko bihar main obc ka darja haasil hai..

Aap to hamaari hi baat ko support kar rahe hain ye keh ke ki baniya community isme sabse aage hai bina reservation ke hi !

Bihar ki nahi hum hindustan ki baat kar rahe hain !

 

[kapdal]

Jitender bhai, three points:

1. Estimate of OBC population in India is b/w 30-40% (Mandal put it over 50% but his methodology is widely discredited). Let's say it is 35%. Jats are around 3% of total population or around 8% of OBCs. It is heartening to see your optimism that 8% would be able to corner 50% of OBC seats. Nothing is impossible but this is highly highly unlikely.

2. Creamy layer is a big joke. Mostly, only creamy layers get through. It is so easy to prove that you are not from the creamy layer. In fact it is easier for creamy layer with connections to prove non-creaminess rather than poor people who get frustrated by the bureaucracy. How many OBCs/SCs/STs are getting through general category or even trying to get through? There are very few examples, and they are guided more by their idealism rather than by the fact that they belong to creamy layer. We are asking for reservations to benefit ordinary folk in villagers but once it is implemented, those with connections in Jat community would usurp everything and villagers would be left high and dry.

3. In a real scenario those 5 won't be able to leave the temptation of easy admission through OBC quota. And 2 or 3 more at best would gain additional seats. Anyways, my argument was that hypothetically even if all OBC seats are captured by Jats, still an overwhelming majority is left disappointed. What about them? Pro-reservation people seem to be suggesting that we are in such a hopeless situation that only reservations can redeem us. But this overwhelming majority would fail despite that- they must surely now be so hopeless so as to commit suicide? Why not tackle the real problem by creating more opportunities instead of fighting over a rotten piece of cake.

Kapil Bhai...aapke reservation waale example par aate hain.. aapne kaha 100 seat hain aur 500 jat candidate aur 30 obc ki seat hain..
ek creamy layer naam ki cheez bhi hote hai.. toh kuch jats obc hone ka baad bhi general se hi apply kar payenge..
e.g. 200 jat creamy layer s eupar hain aur 50 seats ke liye compete karte hain aur 300 jat 30 seat ke liye compete karte hain..
agar 200 main se 5 jat qualify kar gaye aur udhar 30 main se 15 bhi nikaal le gaye toh total hua 5 + 15 = 20 jo ki pehle sirf 5 hi hota..