Jats in reservation as OBC
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vipin_nadar
New member
THERE SHOULD BE NO RESERVATION.
thats a loser thought when people are protesting against reservation. We do not need reservation to prove we are the best. WE ARE and WE CAN SHOW that without RESERVATION.
DOWN WITH RESERVATION
thats a loser thought when people are protesting against reservation. We do not need reservation to prove we are the best. WE ARE and WE CAN SHOW that without RESERVATION.
DOWN WITH RESERVATION
bharatrattan
Banned
Agreed
I concur with your counterview in previous threads and not follow hollow boasting.
If it is there (and It will always be there) the politically correct decision would be to get enlisted.
Bharat
Dear Amit,chhillar said:
I concur with your counterview in previous threads and not follow hollow boasting.
If it is there (and It will always be there) the politically correct decision would be to get enlisted.
Bharat
Question is not whether reservation should be there or not OR if it is good or bad, I think is should not be and it is bad, but the question is if it has to be due to whatever reasons, do we want to join as OBC or not.vipin_nadar said:
Looks like you mean say that even if there is reservation keep Jats out of it.
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naveenprakash
New member
dekh jat ke thaath
hahha......hahhaa
dekhe chillar bhai ise ne tei kahya kare "dekh jat ke thaath".
jat tei uus lathi ki terha hai jo toot sakti hai mud nahi sakti chaye khaan ne dane bhi naa hoon ghar mein
hahha......hahhaa
dekhe chillar bhai ise ne tei kahya kare "dekh jat ke thaath".
jat tei uus lathi ki terha hai jo toot sakti hai mud nahi sakti chaye khaan ne dane bhi naa hoon ghar mein
I don't think so
I tend to agree with Mr. Nadar, for the following reasons.
While it may be considered a correct decision, politically, economically and socially, it may not be so ethically.
Firstly, sooner or later the reservation has to end. It is a cancer that is killing the very fibre of our nation. It has divided the society and while most of us are against it, it will be wrong decision to join the race. We need to stand tall and oppose it wholeheartedly.
The advancement of culture as we can call it or the broadening of the view points has resulted in our clans getting married in other communities. As the trend continues, the reservation issue will also become a family issue. What when between the two spouses one comes from the community that gets reservation and one from the one not listed. This may result more and more people opting against the reservations.
I am pretty sure, that most of the older generation was against and still seems to be against the reservation. While it is tough for younger generation to fight for survival because of this reservation, we still need to fight against it. Reservation of any kind, is asking some one to run a 100 meter race with 50 meter lead given to competitor. We all must unite and fight against it.
Let us not sacrifice the Long term goals for short term objectives. I really don't know how it will be a correct decision to join the rut socially as mentioned above?
chhillar said:
I tend to agree with Mr. Nadar, for the following reasons.
While it may be considered a correct decision, politically, economically and socially, it may not be so ethically.
Firstly, sooner or later the reservation has to end. It is a cancer that is killing the very fibre of our nation. It has divided the society and while most of us are against it, it will be wrong decision to join the race. We need to stand tall and oppose it wholeheartedly.
The advancement of culture as we can call it or the broadening of the view points has resulted in our clans getting married in other communities. As the trend continues, the reservation issue will also become a family issue. What when between the two spouses one comes from the community that gets reservation and one from the one not listed. This may result more and more people opting against the reservations.
I am pretty sure, that most of the older generation was against and still seems to be against the reservation. While it is tough for younger generation to fight for survival because of this reservation, we still need to fight against it. Reservation of any kind, is asking some one to run a 100 meter race with 50 meter lead given to competitor. We all must unite and fight against it.
Let us not sacrifice the Long term goals for short term objectives. I really don't know how it will be a correct decision to join the rut socially as mentioned above?
Tawathia Saab, I can appreciate what you said here if not necessarily agree fully with that. Can you please tell me as to how many people are really into inter-caste marriages today, rough percentages wise? If it is really high or going up high then all that you said makes perfect sense.
I would not go that far to say that reservation is 50m lead in 100m race but yes it certainly gives an edge that too on the cost of other castes (sounds unfair) but other forward castes have done the same in the past to get ahead of us Jats or other backwards (I know I know...Jats!...backward? Yes they are, sooner we accept it better of we are)
Last of all, Jats may be whatever but they are certainly not one of the forward castes in India at least economically and that itself makes them qualify to be in reservation as OBC.
Deal with reservation or no reservation separately. A long as it is in the Indian system let Jats get that 50m lead too because most of them are running just 50m or are already too high speed for Jats.
I would not go that far to say that reservation is 50m lead in 100m race but yes it certainly gives an edge that too on the cost of other castes (sounds unfair) but other forward castes have done the same in the past to get ahead of us Jats or other backwards (I know I know...Jats!...backward? Yes they are, sooner we accept it better of we are)
Last of all, Jats may be whatever but they are certainly not one of the forward castes in India at least economically and that itself makes them qualify to be in reservation as OBC.
Deal with reservation or no reservation separately. A long as it is in the Indian system let Jats get that 50m lead too because most of them are running just 50m or are already too high speed for Jats.
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chhillar said:
why can't we fight for better educational facilities for our villages ? Reservations won't help anyone except very few selected people. Has reservation improved the condition of SCs and STs in India ? If not, then why do u think it will help OBCs? We need high quality education for all and not reservation. Sooner we tackle this problem better it will be for we Jats and for whole nation. Why villagers never agitate and demand better facilities in the same way as other groups ?
RK^2
rkumar said:
If reservation has not helped SCs and STs (says who!!?) then why being worried about reservation anyways because according to you it does not help those who are in reserved categories (except a very few which doesn’t really matter…right?), if that is the case then it can't hurt others anyways.
We need quality education and sooner the better.....AGREED
virenderkhokhar
Member
wat i have percieved of mr chillar's question is that whether jats sud consider being OBC if reservation is going to exist. well most of the decisions are based on the votebank theory.....whichever suits it, is going to happen.......this is in a way wat democracy is all abt but there are some ethics which r non existent in our politics......do we jats have to show all the ethics wen nobody is actually bothereed abt it.......discussion here is abt whether jats sud consider this option if this reservation is imminent........no point discussing overhere the pros n cons of reservation.........cant the reservation and the social welfare of jats esp. rural jats go side by side.......i dunn see any reason ........reservation is no way going to harm any body except the ones who dunn have this reservation.......this is ofcorse going to help to gain bureaucratic jobs as well as admissions into top notch institutes.......makes the job a bit easier.......well mab be the jatland members are the ones who have competed with best of the crowd ...but we sud not forget abt the masses who in villages dunn have any idea abt the competion......lets not sacrifice the jat community in so called sukhi chodhrahat.......eske k liye kuch byont bhi hona jaroori hai........waise ab kuch NCR main zamin k rate chadd gaye to kuch hawa bhar gi hairkumar said:
virender_khokhar said:wat i have percieved of mr chillar's question is that whether jats sud consider being OBC if reservation is going to exist. well most of the decisions are based on the votebank theory.....whichever suits it, is going to happen.......this is in a way wat democracy is all abt but there are some ethics which r non existent in our politics......do we jats have to show all the ethics wen nobody is actually bothereed abt it.......discussion here is abt whether jats sud consider this option if this reservation is imminent........no point discussing overhere the pros n cons of reservation.........cant the reservation and the social welfare of jats esp. rural jats go side by side.......i dunn see any reason ........reservation is no way going to harm any body except the ones who dunn have this reservation.......this is ofcorse going to help to gain bureaucratic jobs as well as admissions into top notch institutes.......makes the job a bit easier.......well mab be the jatland members are the ones who have competed with best of the crowd ...but we sud not forget abt the masses who in villages dunn have any idea abt the competion......lets not sacrifice the jat community in so called sukhi chodhrahat.......eske k liye kuch byont bhi hona jaroori hai........waise ab kuch NCR main zamin k rate chadd gaye to kuch hawa bhar gi hai
Absolutely right.
I don't know why we have to discuss about how bad reservation is while almost everybody is agreeing on that...
virenderkhokhar
Member
chhillar said:
no need to discuss it..instead the educated ones sud make efforts towards making it possible......
Amit bhai
Economically it looks very tempting to go with the issue. The problem is of long term effects. No person works who gets his meals on a platter. If we want to become kaamchor and alsi, we should do everything to ensure that Jats are also included in the OBC. Somehow if we can get BC status, it will be even better.
Economically it looks very tempting to go with the issue. The problem is of long term effects. No person works who gets his meals on a platter. If we want to become kaamchor and alsi, we should do everything to ensure that Jats are also included in the OBC. Somehow if we can get BC status, it will be even better.
virenderkhokhar
Member
sounds strange.......everybody is more of less same intelligent......wats is important is the exposure n the upbringing.....those who dunn have this privilage wat they sud do.....obvious answer wud be 'struggle' ........this will sacrifice a lot of them........i dun see ne harmsampuran said:
chhillar said:
Dear Amit Ji,
Firstly, about Intercaste marriages. I don't have any statistical data about it, but what ever may be its percentage, it is more now than it was 20 years ago and is going to be more than now in next 20 years. This is purely due to the vision of people broadening as their exposure broadens.
You have also mentioned in another reply that when every one agrees (don't know on what issue) then why discuss the subject. Well you are the originator of the subject and would be best to answer this question.
To me, any subject that provokes the thoughts of the community/members is worth discussing.
The next point is that certainly "jats are not forward class". I personally don't care where we are whehter forward or backward, but if one has to choose from the two words, I would rather move forward rather otherwise. To me forward and backward are the results of economical prosparity and educational advancement. Thus I would go with what Rajendra ji has said, to create educational infrastructure in villages. Why always good educational institutions come up in Cities? Because they have the existing infrastructure. If good institutions come in villages, the other develpments would also take place in that area. Pilani is one example of the same.
NAJC members have done some good work in educational field by creating some facilities in rural area. I posted, a thread on this subject and you see it for yourself, while over 60 people have read that not even one comment or reply. So that is our commitment towards such issues.
I have always been against any kind of reservations all my life. Will I change my views in future? Who knows? but surely I don't see any merit in an activity which divides the communities and reservations does that.
We all keep talking about that so called forward castes have exploited the jats, or the SC or the BC in past. Well, let of Jat Zamindar's had done the same. So, it was really not the function of caste but of economic advancements or haves and have nots. While we are moving forward in a democratic system, we need to be equal in all things that we do, giving equal opportunities to every one. The only reservation I support is based on economic condition of the candidate and that should be in terms of monetory help rather than intellectual help. The competition should be fair and just for all young people irrespective of the caste they come from. No one gets born in a family of his/her choice.
Some members feel that reservation is going to remain part of our political system as it attracts the votes. True, it has become an integral part of the system over the period, but that does not mean it is the right thing that has happened. We need to stand tall on this issue and oppose it and root it out from the system as our contribution to the future generations, rather than taking the path of least resistance.
These are my views and members need not necessarily have to agree with these views.
Tawathia Saab,
I was just trying to say that the issue of reservation is incontrovertibly bad and it shouldn't be there. So what's the point arguing about some thing we almost all already agree?
As far as charity and such issues go if I go with my personal past experiences I would rather take care of it myself instead of being member of an org due to obvious reasons.
I personally know about your org and have high regard for the members and whatever you guys are doing.
I was just trying to say that the issue of reservation is incontrovertibly bad and it shouldn't be there. So what's the point arguing about some thing we almost all already agree?
As far as charity and such issues go if I go with my personal past experiences I would rather take care of it myself instead of being member of an org due to obvious reasons.
I personally know about your org and have high regard for the members and whatever you guys are doing.
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narenderkharb
Active member
If reservation is going to stay and which is an absolute certainty than jats must be there otherwise the future of our young people is going to be bleak.
Secondly contrary to general approach I think reservation is not at all wrong.Only way of its implementation is wrong where all benefits are harvested by creamy layer .Again the economicaly poor sections of other groups should also be given reservation.With all its shortcomings its better than no reservation at all.
Those who talk of merit I ask them what do they mean by merit when merits are being manipulated by people sitting at postions of influence at every stage of life.
I shall ask how a poor boy from a rural background or an adivasi from tribal area can compete with a guy from DPS delhi with coaching from from reputed institutes .
Reservation is there to dereserve the already reserved opportunities for welthier section in positions of influence.Its faulty implementations should be rectified and implemented in true spirits.
Jats should not fall prey to this worthless tag of forward and backward but must safegaurd interests of their young generations.
We should try to get reservation at national level and an effort in this regard must be made by all who think about our future generations.
Secondly contrary to general approach I think reservation is not at all wrong.Only way of its implementation is wrong where all benefits are harvested by creamy layer .Again the economicaly poor sections of other groups should also be given reservation.With all its shortcomings its better than no reservation at all.
Those who talk of merit I ask them what do they mean by merit when merits are being manipulated by people sitting at postions of influence at every stage of life.
I shall ask how a poor boy from a rural background or an adivasi from tribal area can compete with a guy from DPS delhi with coaching from from reputed institutes .
Reservation is there to dereserve the already reserved opportunities for welthier section in positions of influence.Its faulty implementations should be rectified and implemented in true spirits.
Jats should not fall prey to this worthless tag of forward and backward but must safegaurd interests of their young generations.
We should try to get reservation at national level and an effort in this regard must be made by all who think about our future generations.
bharatrattan
Banned
Tevathia Uncle,
Namaste,
Every single cast in India is about the population of many European Countries. Many equally intelligent people don't get the opportunity by 0.000025 percent marks difference in India. At AIIMS 34 general Category Students seats are settled within 1.5% marks difference.
Practically the "forward" thinking would be to get enlisted as "OBC" instead of competing for meager 50% seats. In 2007 when OBC quota will be implemented the effective population with which people will have to compete would be 1.5 billion (overnight!)
What an Individual can achieve by hard work can not be replaced by politics and what politics can achieve, can not substitute for Individual success. The best way is to maximize both. Your charity organiztion is helping people achieve individual outcomes and the decision of OBC issue would act by providing opportunities.
Be realistic and not emotional.
Regards,
Bharat
Namaste,
Every single cast in India is about the population of many European Countries. Many equally intelligent people don't get the opportunity by 0.000025 percent marks difference in India. At AIIMS 34 general Category Students seats are settled within 1.5% marks difference.
Practically the "forward" thinking would be to get enlisted as "OBC" instead of competing for meager 50% seats. In 2007 when OBC quota will be implemented the effective population with which people will have to compete would be 1.5 billion (overnight!)
What an Individual can achieve by hard work can not be replaced by politics and what politics can achieve, can not substitute for Individual success. The best way is to maximize both. Your charity organiztion is helping people achieve individual outcomes and the decision of OBC issue would act by providing opportunities.
Be realistic and not emotional.
Regards,
Bharat
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