Love verses hatred

[anilsinghd]

Nice reply for sure...but here hatred was chanalized by some positive and perfact mental calculation...in a way hatred turned up side down.

And do i need tell you that nothing absolute exists , its all about how one percieves at that very moment of time!

You know it better than me for sure with all your experiences of life.

Dont we have this feeling sometimes of "how stupid of me to have thought that way at that time " ?

We are talking of average human beings here , they are prone to making errors , they are easily swayed by emotions ! They really do not understand what and why they are doing things? So giving them only one side of things "love OR hatred" is like taking the spice out of life!

 

[poonamchaudhary]

Most human emotions are self-feeding by nature, they if not exercisesd by discretion can lead to indulgence and so either one must have sufficient self control ( which is hard to find ) else one has to bring in the negation of the same emotion.

So both the positive and negative ( you named it that way , I do not categorise human emotions) are very essential for smooth functioning of our lives!

Thanks a lot for analysing line by line Anil But perhaps a bit hasty...if you read what i wrote carefully in the two posts then you will realise that you are saying the same thing when you say that emotions are essential for smooth functioning of life. Well in the very begining i said that emotions are not bad in themselves and its natural to go through them. Its the excess that is bad...and of any emotion be it love or hatred. Again you are talking of self control and negation and thus saying more or less the same thing.

You are ending up making generalisation yourself when you say that its hard to find self control.

See the topic is subjective and when subjectivity comes your opinion is bound to figure in. All the things cannot be moulded in set formulas and laws.

I would be more delighted if you can prove why you disagree with the statement that hatred doesnt have positivity in general and its natural to feel it. And that it always results in some form of violence.

 

[devdahiya]

And do i need tell you that nothing absolute exists , its all about how one percieves at that very moment of time!

You know it better than me for sure with all your experiences of life.

Dont we have this feeling sometimes of "how stupid of me to have thought that way at that time " ?

We are talking of average human beings here , they are prone to making errors , they are easily swayed by emotions ! They really do not understand what and why they are doing things? So giving them only one side of things "love OR hatred" is like taking the spice out of life!

true...........would like to see you more on it.thanks

 

[devdahiya]

Thanks a lot for analysing line
I would be more delighted if you can prove why you disagree with the statement that hatred doesnt have positivity in general and its natural to feel it. And that it always results in some form of violence.

Very true...........needs to be answered.......i agree with Poonam a great deal.

 

[anilsinghd]

Thanks a lot for analysing line by line Anil

You are always welcome

But perhaps a bit hasty...

True ! But i didn't compromise by my own quality standards , i did read both your posts!






You are ending up making generalisation yourself when you say that its hard to find self control.

I just said its harder , does not mean its imposible , so no generalisation!


See the topic is subjective and when subjectivity comes your opinion is bound to figure in. All the things cannot be moulded in set formulas and laws.

Agree!



I would be more delighted if you can prove why you disagree with the statement that hatred doesnt have positivity in general and its natural to feel it. And that it always results in some form of violence.


Post no. 17 , hatred did end up in being positive , it did not involve any violence , did it ?

Hi Poonam , first of all , just felt like answering quickly and in-line! Next , i was happy with your first post , but was a bit disappointed by the second.
You yourself said that things depend on context and then you said that hated has nothing positive about it ( sort of a backtracking contradicting your own self )!

And now again , you said , its pretty subjective and can't be bounded by laws and rules , and then you did generalisations ! ( eg. hatred only results in destructive acts ... its consequence will always be some form of violence.... )

Discrete maths - I , in the initial lectures , got this knowledge that for disproving you need to give one counter example , for proving you need to prove in general. I guess I gave that one counter example

 

[poonamchaudhary]

Hi Anil.. i read that example of yours but later on..i will come to it but first of all... even saying that doing something is harder is a generalisation of sorts..it may be hard for some but may not be for others..so this statement becomes a generalisation.
Yes i did say that things depend upon context and still say it..when we percieve and opine on something than we are in a frame of circumstances, established notions and beliefs and when we declare something as positive or negative it is influenced by our context. Positive,negative,good or bad are contextual and they do not have any existence on their own. Since we ourselves are in the context of a thread which demands us to discuss two emotions, which are quiet natural, in the light of their impact on society we are bound to discuss it from the angle of positive and negative. So i hope now you got why i have to call them positive and negative.

And yes i am not making any generalisations in the first place...i am presenting my own views.

Now..coming to your example...but before that i will again say that i stand by my statement that hatred is associated with violence. And violence can be of any form be it in terms of deeds or thoughts. In your example the hatred for that intellectual guy is also showing association with violence..notice what you wrote.."topple the other guy"..see this is hatred's connect with violence.

Hi Poonam , first of all , just felt like answering quickly and in-line! Next , i was happy with your first post , but was a bit disappointed by the second.
You yourself said that things depend on context and then you said that hated has nothing positive about it ( sort of a backtracking contradicting your own self )!

And now again , you said , its pretty subjective and can't be bounded by laws and rules , and then you did generalisations ! ( eg. hatred only results in destructive acts ... its consequence will always be some form of violence.... )

Discrete maths - I , in the initial lectures , got this knowledge that for disproving you need to give one counter example , for proving you need to prove in general. I guess I gave that one counter example

 

[anilsinghd]

.notice what you wrote.."topple the other guy"..see this is hatred's connect with violence.

by topple , i means to go beyond , if that is violence , umm... am not so sure ...

interesting though , one can try to find stirring of any of the domains of human existence ( physical , emotional , mental , spiritual ) , but that might also be true for the the your "positive" emotion i.e. love.


would be great if you can try and justify going beyond , as in the example i stated , is violence of any sort ....

 

[rkumar]

" Kam, krodh, lobh, moh, ahankar, irsha, gherna" etc are the body emotions through which we interact with outside world. All emotions are natural. Our body tries to come to an equilibrium to its surroundings through these internal forces. At any given time one or more of these forces are in action. Volumes can be written on each of these forces. Having pride in right amount can be called self respect while in excessive amounts becomes " Ahankar". Loving some one in right amount is good but in excess becomes " moh" which has blinding effect. " Irsha" in right amount can be called competitive but in excess it can have damaging effects on brain.

RK^2

 

[poonamchaudhary]

Hey Anil, you have changed your words..you know the first words that come to your mind are a reflection of your state of mind..later on we only try to mend or justify them. Anyways you are saying "going beyond" now, i would say that motive for it somewhere in one's conscious or subconscious mind is to snatch that guy's position of being more intellectual and to be their oneself. It itself is a kind of violence where one is trying to occupy other person's position. Hatred will be associated with violence at one level or another.

by topple , i means to go beyond , if that is violence , umm... am not so sure ...

interesting though , one can try to find stirring of any of the domains of human existence ( physical , emotional , mental , spiritual ) , but that might also be true for the the your "positive" emotion i.e. love.


would be great if you can try and justify going beyond , as in the example i stated , is violence of any sort ....

 

[ritu]

hate is a very ill feeling and it normally does you more harm than the person you hate..and on the contrary love brings joy and sense of being good to you as well the one you love to

 

[anilsinghd]

Hey Anil, you have changed your words..you know the first words that come to your mind are a reflection of your state of mind..later on we only try to mend or justify them. Anyways you are saying "going beyond" now, i would say that motive for it somewhere in one's conscious or subconscious mind is to snatch that guy's position of being more intellectual and to be their oneself. It itself is a kind of violence where one is trying to occupy other person's position. Hatred will be associated with violence at one level or another.

I try and refrain from backtracking , what i did was to explain myself a bit ( I do not possess it a great deal but i do try and practice sympathtic joy ).


Your explanation was what i was looking at and it seems that you did a nice job in attaching violence ( though on the mental/emotional domain ) to hatred.
I stand by my point that love can also stir up the violence so it is not specific to hatred only , try and come up with an example of the same if you believe so , or a proof of the negation!
I will do the same , right now , nothing coming to my mind.


Interesting discussing this ! Thanks!

 

[mittu]

a) I guess it was "LOVE for power" behind all wars and battles(i don't think violence can go beyond that)
b) Its drunkard's "LOVE for liquor" which converts him into an animal and again violence is caused.
b) Its jingoistic behavior or LOVE for nation which prompts a soldier to kill another.(i know its debatable but whatever violence caused during independence was supposed to reflect LOVE for nation or HATRED against slavery!!)
d) What about Raj Thackeray's LOVE(idiocy) for maharashtra, i don't think he is much of a peace keeper either.

So, LOVE and HATE are just two uncanny catalytic emotions which can be good or bad depending upon how its perceived. it implies to person, family and society as the building block of all of them is human nature.

The biggest issue faced by Indian society today is religiosity which is i think only cause of home-grown terrorism, So, is it because of LOVE for our religion or HATE for other's?

 

[anilsinghd]

a) I guess it was "LOVE for power" behind all wars and battles(i don't think violence can go beyond that)
b) Its drunkard's "LOVE for liquor" which converts him into an animal and again violence is caused.
b) Its jingoistic behavior or LOVE for nation which prompts a soldier to kill another.(i know its debatable but whatever violence caused during independence was supposed to reflect LOVE for nation or HATRED against slavery!!)
d) What about Raj Thackeray's LOVE(idiocy) for maharashtra, i don't think he is much of a peace keeper either.

So, LOVE and HATE are just two uncanny catalytic emotions which can be good or bad depending upon how its perceived. it implies to person, family and society as the building block of all of them is human nature.

The biggest issue faced by Indian society today is religiosity which is i think only cause of home-grown terrorism, So, is it because of LOVE for our religion or HATE for other's?

Cool , cant think beyond that , so Poonam , any counter arguments ?

Thanks Amit!

 

[poonamchaudhary]

Cool , cant think beyond that , so Poonam , any counter arguments ?

Thanks Amit!

Well Anil what happened to you..now you are taking help of other people's arguments. Thats not done. As far as the question of producing counter argument is considered i can very well do that..but i am sorry to say that you disappointed me as i was hoping that you will come up with something on your own.

 

[anilsinghd]

Well Anil what happened to you..now you are taking help of other people's arguments. Thats not done. As far as the question of producing counter argument is considered i can very well do that..but i am sorry to say that you disappointed me as i was hoping that you will come up with something on your own.

It ain't a personal intelligent proving battle mate , is it ?

I liked Amit's arguments and so i take that

Didn't I buy your argument of attaching violence in mind to "goying beyond " or originally written as "toppling" ?


I always live the topic , not the debaters , so do not expect me to go "beyond" topic and attach personal arguments or something like that!


For sure , if I have something to contribute to the topic , I will !


Let's move on!



The question still remains , violence/stirring up of emotions is not the copyright of your categorised "positive" emotions!
ither you defend this one or agree and then we can may be drop the categorisation!

 

[dkumars]

I love hatred and I hate Love

Both emotions in one sentence.

 

[dkumars]

" Kam, krodh, lobh, moh, ahankar, irsha, gherna" etc are the body emotions through which we interact with outside world. All emotions are natural. Our body tries to come to an equilibrium to its surroundings through these internal forces. At any given time one or more of these forces are in action. Volumes can be written on each of these forces. Having pride in right amount can be called self respect while in excessive amounts becomes " Ahankar". Loving some one in right amount is good but in excess becomes " moh" which has blinding effect. " Irsha" in right amount can be called competitive but in excess it can have damaging effects on brain.

RK^2

Best reply and I am convinced with this. Thanks Rajender ji.

 

[poonamchaudhary]

First of all there certainly is no battle going on here or anywhere for that matter. These are just topics selected and presented at random over which all of us present our opinions and so there is no question of proving personal intelligence or anything of that sort. Even i am not viewing it as such. And let me add one more thing, its always a pleasure to have healthy debates..there is nothing wrong with that. You can very well hold your own views, i am holding on to mine. I do not expect you to go in any direction and you are as free to go in any direction as i am. So no point of arguments from my side. You analysed and replied to my opinions and in doing so invited me to do the same. Its as simple as that. Ok lets move on!
As far as your question is concerned...i think you have either written it wrong or you percieved it wrong because i didnt attach violence with "my" positive emotion. I think i attached it with hatred.

It ain't a personal intelligent proving battle mate , is it ?

I liked Amit's arguments and so i take that

Didn't I buy your argument of attaching violence in mind to "goying beyond " or originally written as "toppling" ?


I always live the topic , not the debaters , so do not expect me to go "beyond" topic and attach personal arguments or something like that!


For sure , if I have something to contribute to the topic , I will !


Let's move on!



The question still remains , violence/stirring up of emotions is not the copyright of your categorised "positive" emotions!
ither you defend this one or agree and then we can may be drop the categorisation!

 

[neels]

Love, hate, greed, lust, anger, jealousy, pride etc are all natural traits and part of human biology. Each trait has its positive and negative aspects. Used in right proportions, each trait is beneficial. Problem arises when any of these traits is used in extreme. Evil has been defined by one philosopher as “the good carried out in excess". Hate is a very good trait when one uses it against bad things. Problem comes when its use is extended to everything a man stands for. Same is true I suppose for all human traits.

RK^2

Rajender Sir has very well explained... anythg in excess is negative, how so ever positive it may be.... even excess of love is bad... it may turn one to any criminal enroute. Anil , u r right love n hate both are important....... there is no significance or importance of any positive without a negative. Good is good because there's bad. Love is significant due to hatred. If there is no hatred, all love, how we gonna understand the importance of love....???? So the importance of the emotion of hate in society is that it makes us realize the importance of LOVE.Amit has also gotta point ....as perspective is always crucial in explaining anything... love may become negative if the object of love is not desirable. Hate may become positive at stances if its for a good cause.Well Poonam, debate is guddd n healthy for discussions... But all debates end on one conclusion - tht yu have to opt for a middle path to seek the best rather than following blindly the pros or cons only.

 

[anilsinghd]

As far as your question is concerned...i think you have either written it wrong or you percieved it wrong because i didnt attach violence with "my" positive emotion. I think i attached it with hatred.

Yups , made a mistake , replace positive with neagative in my previous post's question and then try and reply!



PS: Though i replied to your responses , does not mean i was discarding the opinion of other worthy members , and that applies to you as well!
Thanks,
Anil