Markovish -- Behaviour

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Well , sorry to be mathematical on the subject line , but i am not as well versed in the langugae as a few are. So i could not find a better word for this.

But i will try my best to explain myself.

Markovish refers to a process in which we base all our decisions on the present only ( the assumption being that present contains all information of the past)( some examples being the stock prices :o , forgive me for being technical here ).

What i feel is that these days ( and i have no evidence to prove the existence or non-existence of the smae in the past ) , people have started behaving markovish.

There is no sense of looking into the past , there is no sense of a certain calmness before taking a major decision , a decision that can have abig impact. Haste seems to be the most prevalent thing.
Be it replying to a post , be it in a relationship , be it a response to our parents , freinds , we seem to waste no time on giving ourselves enough time and facts and resources to base our decision on.


An example : 1. You know a person for long , he does something out of normal , something bad , and we find nothing other than pounce on him , not even trying to understand on why he did that ? or not even tolerating one human error ( Although we are all familiar of the saying : To err is being human ).

Hope we can have a constructive discussion on this.

Thanks !
 
You require a great calmness for retospective thinking and reflection. A mind at peace with itself can only achieve this. We act and behave in the markovish way because we only want to take and accumulate and not sacrifice. Today is the instant age
 
Well , sorry to be mathematical on the subject line , but i am not as well versed in the langugae as a few are. So i could not find a better word for this.

But i will try my best to explain myself.

Markovish refers to a process in which we base all our decisions on the present only ( the assumption being that present contains all information of the past)( some examples being the stock prices :o , forgive me for being technical here ).

What i feel is that these days ( and i have no evidence to prove the existence or non-existence of the smae in the past ) , people have started behaving markovish.

There is no sense of looking into the past , there is no sense of a certain calmness before taking a major decision , a decision that can have abig impact. Haste seems to be the most prevalent thing.
Be it replying to a post , be it in a relationship , be it a response to our parents , freinds , we seem to waste no time on giving ourselves enough time and facts and resources to base our decision on.


An example : 1. You know a person for long , he does something out of normal , something bad , and we find nothing other than pounce on him , not even trying to understand on why he did that ? or not even tolerating one human error ( Although we are all familiar of the saying : To err is being human ).

Hope we can have a constructive discussion on this.

Thanks !

This only reflects about the person, who attacks without thinking.

To a great extent, it his or her frustartion/disappointments/anger in life which are being projected in that violence.

We are all fighting these battles, some find the way and some done't.
 
Thanks Deepak and Parvir for replies.

Another thing that worth discussing would be that whether this type of behaviour is new/recent or it has always been there. What are your experiences with this ?

I am really not looking for the solution at the moment , because the solution lies in the problem definition itself , I am rather interested at the causes of such a behaviour , where the fact is that more are getting educated.
 
Markovish !!! ....... Nice word ....... MR. Dictionary :) hehehehehe

I don't think that people practice this theory as most of them knew already ( on whose posts they are going to appericiate and where they are going to criticize .... and upto what extent ........ more than 2 years experience of mine here says that only ) that ...... maybe some are totally neutral species ........ but post signature view of point ..........

Let's us suppose :

I had a bad post ....... since last two years of my membership here ............. my admireres would have told me that "this is not what you should post.... buddy ?" ...... Neutral ones would either restrict themselves to post or just say "bad post" ( means a lot for the poster if he/she could understand ) while some other start provoking and abusing ( depending on their mentality .... respectively ) .......

Analyze personally ! how you should have behaved .......


I remember a real time situation here last month when one of the most respected member posted something bad about someone 'personally' .... i just read the post and PM'ed that person instantly that "What are you posting ? You should not behave like this ?" and he immediately editted his post and i felt lucky that i stopped some unwanted tension here.

I think humanisn is a term to follow rather than to follow personalism. The person on whom he commented was so close to me rather than who posted but i responded with a respect in PM and everything get setteled ......... ( i could had used some nice words to quote someone .... like some people does ....... but i didn't )

How many of the people among us behave like that before accusing/provoking/abusing others ?
 
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Thanks Deepak and Parvir for replies.

Another thing that worth discussing would be that whether this type of behaviour is new/recent or it has always been there. What are your experiences with this ?

I am really not looking for the solution at the moment , because the solution lies in the problem definition itself , I am rather interested at the causes of such a behaviour , where the fact is that more are getting educated.

Aap bahut guudh baatan is forum per kar rahe ho and I appericiate it.

Your queries can be satisfied by Vedantic litrature i.e upanishads.

If you need any help in this regard, pls do not hesistate to contact me.
 
Deepak bhai i 100 percent agree with you..........i wud like to add litle bit to it........yes ved/upnishads answer all this but it may happen that u may not understand the true meaning of slokh or another case may be u dont have time to go thru all this..........so best solution for this is take help of satsang.kisi bhe brhamnist sadguru ke sharan chale jao...........vedo ka gyan bhe milega .unka sahe matlab pata chalega.........jivan ke kaye rahasye ka bhed apne app khulega .......jivan or smajh ka sahe arth pata chalega.............MAI SATSANG KE MAHIMA KA PURA GUN GAN JANMO JANMO BHE NAHE KAR SAKTA

anil bhai mere layk koi is sandarbh me koi sewa ho toh jarur mauka de.


Aap bahut guudh baatan is forum per kar rahe ho and I appericiate it.

Your queries can be satisfied by Vedantic litrature i.e upanishads.

If you need any help in this regard, pls do not hesistate to contact me.
 
Markovish !!! ....... Nice word ....... MR. Dictionary :) hehehehehe

I don't think that people practice this theory as most of them knew already ( on whose posts they are going to appericiate and where they are going to criticize .... and upto what extent ........ more than 2 years experience of mine here says that only ) that ...... maybe some are totally neutral species ........ but post signature view of point ..........

Let's us suppose :

I had a bad post ....... since last two years of my membership here ............. my admireres would have told me that "this is not what you should post.... buddy ?" ...... Neutral ones would either restrict themselves to post or just say "bad post" ( means a lot for the poster if he/she could understand ) while some other start provoking and abusing ( depending on their mentality .... respectively ) .......

Analyze personally ! how you should have behaved .......


I remember a real time situation here last month when one of the most respected member posted something bad about someone 'personally' .... i just read the post and PM'ed that person instantly that "What are you posting ? You should not behave like this ?" and he immediately editted his post and i felt lucky that i stopped some unwanted tension here.

I think humanisn is a term to follow rather than to follow personalism. The person on whom he commented was so close to me rather than who posted but i responded with a respect in PM and everything get setteled ......... ( i could had used some nice words to quote someone .... like some people does ....... but i didn't )

How many of the people among us behave like that before accusing/provoking/abusing others ?


@ Vijay : Yup , u described the problem in more detail and also restricted to jatland and its post. I wish that we can extend this discussion to more general framework.

Predefined notions or siding is ok , but i am looking at that sect who infact seems to be neutral and only behaves in this fashion when he himself is being tackled to !

Please be a lil more generic ! thanks ! Would be great to hear more !:)

Aap bahut guudh baatan is forum per kar rahe ho and I appericiate it.

Your queries can be satisfied by Vedantic litrature i.e upanishads.

If you need any help in this regard, pls do not hesistate to contact me.


@ Deepak : sir , guudh baatein sabko pata lagni chhaiye !! everybody here think of himself/herself as the best ! And i dont wish to classify , not even myself.

So i guess u can help all of us with what u intend to say by posting here. would love to listen.
:)
 
here is a communication i shared with a friend today ! These are my said things :

Worth having a look ( consider these as my views ) for sake of discussion !

u know what i am thiking of this fact these days :

the ego of persons have reached an all time high !
=======================================
such is the insecurity with people that they tend to not even look at any suggestions or any statements from others.
I really believe that the sense organ "ear" is no longer of that great use.

People are not really listening to others. While talking to the other person , they are actually thinking of ways to counter what the other is saying ( irrespective of what the other is saying).

No one wants to improve. No one has any touch of the past. What matters for people is the immediate ( read it as present ) behaviour.

And dont get me in the sense that i am talking specific.
These things not only happen in personal talks , relations , friendships , but even in professional relationships.

I am generalizing , and i know that generalizing is harmful but i am very sure .

U know something. These days everyone thinks of himself/herself as an specialist in analysing human behaviour and the superiority complex has set up in every individual.

dont go far , think of yourself. Is not that true ?

Now tell me if everyone is superior than every one else , who is actually the superior ?

nature has not defined any superiority in human beings ?

all are similar when it comes to when people are born.

On what scale people can decide who is superior , who is not. Ofcourse there are some quantitative tests and things to do that. but in this 6 biillion people on an average score of hundred ( of a particular test ) and considering every score as equally likely ( which is offcourse not true ) , there are 60 million people on one score , dividing across different age , there are approximately 1 million people of same age and same IQ !


and they are not superior of each other !! But in todays era , everybody thinks of himself/herself as superior
i_surprise.gif


Now tell me , what should happen , obviously , there has to be chaos , and that is what we are observing.

The solution lie in understanding and appreciating the difference , appreciating the uniqueness. In taking people as individuals
i_smile.gif
! and not as objects , which is what is widespread these days.


But who has the patience of calming himself to understand the beauty that lies in the difference.
 
Deepak bhai i 100 percent agree with you..........i wud like to add litle bit to it........yes ved/upnishads answer all this but it may happen that u may not understand the true meaning of slokh or another case may be u dont have time to go thru all this..........so best solution for this is take help of satsang.kisi bhe brhamnist sadguru ke sharan chale jao...........vedo ka gyan bhe milega .unka sahe matlab pata chalega.........jivan ke kaye rahasye ka bhed apne app khulega .......jivan or smajh ka sahe arth pata chalega.............MAI SATSANG KE MAHIMA KA PURA GUN GAN JANMO JANMO BHE NAHE KAR SAKTA

anil bhai mere layk koi is sandarbh me koi sewa ho toh jarur mauka de.

Of course you need help but sabsa bada guru hamray andar hi hai. If we ask for help, the help will come.

Now information is easily available so one should not wait for guru to come along.

Secondly we should have a spiritual/religion section on Jatland.
 
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Well Anil the behaviour has always been there but it has got exaggerated due to the low tolerance level of the people and the blind aping of the west. When you chase fame you loose happiness and when you chase happiness you loose fame to gain both you need to do your karma
 
Dear Anil

to me superiority of an individual is a matter of his or her own conviction and for others is a matter of perception. How we react to the comment of others is also a matter of conviction and perception. Don't you remember the riddle about "shortening a line without erasing or cutting it". Not all in the group would be able to answer that. Someone would perceive the right path and without fiddling with the existing line would draw a longer line beside the one already there.

It makes me believe after analysing your posts in this thread that somebody has hurt your 'ego'. Although it is a wild guess but I think somebody's behaviour has knowingly or unknowingly caused some unrest in your mind. But then the question is what is behaviour. To me, it is a set of norms for a social group or a smaller group or two or more individual for their own and collective convenience.
Anyways, probably i am beating about the bush but I read a Golden rule, that was signature of one our earliest but one time active members. I believe it was Bhai Ashok Dabas's signature and that read something like this:

" No one can hurt my ego without my consent"

so the point i wish to convey is that when something bad is said or commented about an individual, its impact is determined by the fact that how much he or she cares about the comment and the person who has made the comment. Closer the personal relationship, bigger would be the impact.
So if you wish to minimise the damage than drop the adverse comments from your thought process like a unfinished cigarette held in your fingers. So it is all about your 'attitude' in handling situations like this.

For gaining and keeping inner peace, I remember another golden line from the introduction thread by our esteemed member Bhai Karamveer Chahal
"sabhee par vishvash karta hun aur apne liye jhooth nahi bolta"

Finally I would like to emphasize that we shouldn't say or write anything to win a point or a debate, that can hut somebody's feelings/ego.





Cheers!
 
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Dear Anil

to me superiority of an individual is a matter of his or her own conviction and for others is a matter of perception. How we react to the comment of others is also a matter of conviction and perception. Don't you remember the riddle about "shortening a line without erasing or cutting it". Not all in the group would be able to answer that. Someone would perceive the right path and without fiddling with the existing line would draw a longer line beside the one already there.

It makes me believe after analysing your posts in this thread that somebody has hurt your 'ego'. Although it is a wild guess but I think somebody's behaviour has knowingly or unknowingly caused some unrest in your mind. But then the question is what is behaviour. To me, it is a set of norms for a social group or a smaller group or two or more individual for their own and collective convenience.
Anyways, probably i am beating about the bush but I read a Golden rule, that was signature of one our earliest but one time active members. I believe it was Bhai Ashok Dabas's signature and that read something like this:

" No one can hurt my ego without my consent"
so the point i wish to convey is that when something bad is said or commented about an individual, its impact is determined by the fact that how much he or she cares about the comment and the person who has made the comment. Closer the personal relationship, bigger would be the impact.
So if you wish to minimise the damage than drop the adverse comments from your thought process like a unfinished cigarette held in your fingers. So it is all about your 'attitude' in handling situations like this.

For gaining and keeping inner peace, I remember another golden line from the introduction thread by our esteemed member Bhai Karamveer Chahal
"sabhee par vishvash karta hun aur apne liye jhooth nahi bolta"

Finally I would like to emphasize that we shouldn't say or write anything to win a point or a debate, that can hut somebody's feelings/ego.

Cheers!

Hi Sir , Thanks for your contribution.
IT was really interesting to read your post and i could find out a way to tkae this thread and discussion forward with the limited audience we have had.

As PArvir Sir mentioned , we have blindly copied the west. I am still not sure on how this is done ? Do people in West have low tolerance level ?

And i think we should try a bit harder for other sources to analyse.

Regarding your assumption / guess ! No you are wrong , no body has hurt my ego. Infact that quote of nobody can hurt our ego without our consent is so true.

The same is true with me. I divide the comments from anyone in some broad categories ! Some are total nonsense and i dont care , some are sugegsting a change ( and if the source / comment ) is worth , i give it due consideration , and I would not hesitate a bit to change myself for good.
If the point worth a debate i would go forward with a totally open mind , respect for the person i am talking to , respect to his views and would converse.


I found the procedure simple enough.

What confuses me is that why dont people seem to follow this ?

Dont take me wrong , i am just making an example , your guess that somebody has hurt me is again a symptom of our preassumptions.

I am being a generalist , I always try talking about human behaviour in general because one or two cases dont have any statistical significace to base our conclusions on.

You would know this fact , even on jatland , if u talk about something , there are pre defined notions , pre defined ways of response. I appreciate the individuality and uniqueness of people but at time it hurts to see people developing such a hatred for wach other for no reasons !
And the reason is the lack of communication or better stated is the lack of intention to listen to each other.

Have we reached a situation wehre we dont have respect for others ? I think one of the must of being human is to respect other humans .

And then if u talk as a genrealist , people have this habbit of getting you down by saying that i am pretending and this is applicable to everyone who tries to be rational about things.

Why are we turning our ears to something that is logical , rational , true , general just because it is against our view ?


And the stroy is not specific to jatland , it goes to all such social networking site , and to real life realtionships !

Pause for a moment to think of the kind of prudence we have developed. The phrases like :
Jaat to bhaai nyun hi rehvange
jaat to swaad liya karein
jaat yeh ,,,, jaat woh .....

Think of the language we use at times !!! Any foul word , rotten statements , bad behaviour is categorised as using jat / haryanvi language.

I might be sounding harsh but the general behaviour towards ladies/girls has reached such a low that i better call it as talking to your saali/bhaabhi !!

And that is being generalised to everyone ( including unknowns ) ! WE do not have that bit of patience to wait for a few days / a few conversations / a few talks to try and prove our " over friendliness " to them.

I have been on internet and i have met so many people ( on internet and then personally ( i guess must be around 60-70 ) ) , I never ever has to fight against someone , I never had to abuse someone , yet i was able to establish relationships ( and long lasting as well ) !!!!

I like observing behaviour and it has seriously degraded in last 2-3 years , And here is where PArvir Sir's comment of blindly following the west has come onto picture.

What is the reason that we are not having enough patience ? IS 2 years a big enough time frame to degrade this much ? And the rate at which we are going , what does it holds for future ?


Sorry for this big post ,but sicne you tried to get into my mind of what i was talking about , i thought of explaining myself. Hope you appreciate the points and take the discussion forward.
:)
 
Anil,

I agree that most of the people here believe on this Markovish theory ......... present time relationships are better than the past ones ..... and who knows about the future. And believe me they are better prepared for the future relationships and raring to go to break old ones for the sake of new ones.

Again i don't want to go personally ....... but i felt that i tried to help so many people personally here but later the 'Markovish' behaviour showed the real face.

Whenever we landed up in a new world/environment we try to find some like minded characters and hence develop some relationships. After some time we feel that some relations are on the edge.

Worst case is also there when we help someone as being a newcomer and that person feel proud of being someone special..... and later ...... you know ........... sometimes results as being a foe.

An example : 1. You know a person for long , he does something out of normal , something bad , and we find nothing other than pounce on him , not even trying to understand on why he did that ? or not even tolerating one human error ( Although we are all familiar of the saying : To err is being human ).

To err is being human .......... is just a saying ........ as people except some perfectionlism when someone is posting but never bother about what they are commenting on that ........ freedom to comment is better than freedom to post ..............

Most of the poeple here are pre determined that whose post they have to admire and whose post they must criticize ...... whatever the content :)

Humanism, moral values, neutral behaviour etc ...... does they exist ?
 
Anil,


Humanism, moral values, neutral behaviour etc ...... does they exist ?


Yes they do ! To prove their existence i just have to quote one name ! And do i tell you what that is ?


Meanwhile t o prove their non-existence , u need to prove it for everyone.


That was the first lesson i learnt in the Discrete MAths course !:)
 
Well , sorry to be mathematical on the subject line , but i am not as well versed in the langugae as a few are. So i could not find a better word for this.

But i will try my best to explain myself.

Markovish refers to a process in which we base all our decisions on the present only ( the assumption being that present contains all information of the past)( some examples being the stock prices :o , forgive me for being technical here ).

Hope we can have a constructive discussion on this.

Thanks !

Coming very late on this reflective thread.
Intersting Terminology.... we can think to bring that into Psychology:). well to make it simple.... Impulsive is the word which describes similar behavior.

so many points to discuss in this thread.... ll do one by one.

In general ppl are getting reactive,, loosing patience,,, don reflect before reacting. some of them thou later realize on second thoughts... editing certain posts here is an example of that.
pehle jo kaha kerte na... ki kuch bhi bolne se pehle 2 baar sochna chahiye.... is loosing strength. And i feel thats the most important asset in ones' behavior one can entwine.

I don think west has anything to do in this changing mentality of ours.
 
.. Impulsive is the word which describes similar behavior.


I don think west has anything to do in this changing mentality of ours.


yups impulsive is a good word to describe !!!


and even i agree west has no direct influence on this.


Wuould look forward to hear more from u on this ?


@ Parvir Sir: Please enlighten us on how do u think west has to contribute on this ?
 
yups impulsive is a good word to describe !!!


and even i agree west has no direct influence on this.


Wuould look forward to hear more from u on this ?


@ Parvir Sir: Please enlighten us on how do u think west has to contribute on this ?

Please don't get me wrong; you have the good guys and bad guys across the world. I have great praise for the non hyprocritical and materialistic culture of the west and I don't make an apology for being materialistic; a materialistic outlook with a spiritual centre is what I would term my outlook. I also have great respect for the spiritual moorings of the east especially India.

What I am saying is that the great traditions of yoga build a lot of patience in a person and helps him to focus his energy for the benefit of others. and by yoga i just don't mean the physical excercises which just a small part of the yoga tradition but the mental equilibirium need to lead a balanced life.

Somewhere down the line I feel we are blindly coping the west the traditions of which are based on deduction, reduction, differentiation and alienation. We have lost our cultural moorings, which give an anchor to a person. Till differntiation it is okay but when it starts getting to the level of alienation it becomes a problem.

Shivaji was asked why he built a massive grave for Afzal Khan when the Hindus were raped and thrown to the dogs by the muslims and he replied this is the difference between a Shri and the muslims. We do not hate the person but only his deeds and when the person is dead what is their to hate. just an example of our noble tradition and culture.
 
Hi Anil,

2 children born in the same family with same upbringing respond differently to a given situation.

Why???

Sometimes we are surprised even disgusted by our own thoughts, although there was no reason to be thinking about them ?

Where do these thoughts come from and what was the cause for their manifestation??

Your question is also a reaction? so why did you ask the question.:)


Deepak
 
Please don't get me wrong; you have the good guys and bad guys across the world. I have great praise for the non hyprocritical and materialistic culture of the west and I don't make an apology for being materialistic; a materialistic outlook with a spiritual centre is what I would term my outlook. I also have great respect for the spiritual moorings of the east especially India.

What I am saying is that the great traditions of yoga build a lot of patience in a person and helps him to focus his energy for the benefit of others. and by yoga i just don't mean the physical excercises which just a small part of the yoga tradition but the mental equilibirium need to lead a balanced life.

Somewhere down the line I feel we are blindly coping the west the traditions of which are based on deduction, reduction, differentiation and alienation. We have lost our cultural moorings, which give an anchor to a person. Till differntiation it is okay but when it starts getting to the level of alienation it becomes a problem.

Shivaji was asked why he built a massive grave for Afzal Khan when the Hindus were raped and thrown to the dogs by the muslims and he replied this is the difference between a Shri and the muslims. We do not hate the person but only his deeds and when the person is dead what is their to hate. just an example of our noble tradition and culture.

Indian value system has never been against materialism, I don't know who has started this myth.

Right knowledge, Right understanding, Right action is the end result of Yoga.
 
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