Origin of Jats

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However, more significant was the fact that the Kaaba was an extremely rich and ornate temple. On its walls hung innumerable gold plaques commemorating the winners of the annual poetry competition known as the Okaj fair. There were gold, silver and precious gems everywhere. It is no wonder that Muhammad armed with his facade of a new brand of religion set out to capture the immense wealth of the Vedic shrine of <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:pl</st1:City>. After plundering the riches of the Kaaba, the wealth enabled him to systematically destroy all traces of the religion that threatened him so directly. It is an indisputable fact that money will make any low criminal devoutly religious in a hurry.

Despite the fact that Muhammad had to destroy all traces of Hinduism in order to make his "new religion" work, he knew that in order to fool people convincingly he would have to borrow from the Vedic culture that surrounded him. Being illiterate he picked out rituals and symbols that he didn't understand and distorted and falsified them for his own ends. Here is a list of these distortions:

Muhammad destroyed all 360 idols, but even he could not summon the courage to completely obliterate the Shivling in the Kaaba. He entered the temple and kissed the black stone. The Shivling was so sacred that the man who so detested idol- worship ended up kissing the largest idol in the Kaaba. Later his followers in a fit of piety broke the Shivling and then out of remorse repatched it together again. Today it lies broken at seven places and held together by a silver band studded with silver nails, bearing the name "Sangey Aswad" which came from the Sanskrit Ashwet meaning non-white or black stone.

He jumbled up the Sanskrit words Nama and Yaja (which meant "bowing and worshipping" respectively) into a combination word Namaz and used that to describe his prescribed method of prayer.

Because the Vedic custom was to pray facing the East, in his hatred for all things Hindu, he directed his followers to pray facing only the west.

The method of circling around a shrine seven times in a clockwise direction is an ancient Vedic custom. Muhammad with his lack of originality decided that the 7 ritual perambulations should be retained but again in his hatred of all things Vedic decided the direction of the perambulations should be anti-clockwise.

With his phobia of all things Vedic, Muhammad knew that the greatest reminder and threat to his forced brand of religion were the beautiful Vedic idols of Arabic temples. Thus he destroyed every idol he could find and made idol worship the greatest crime for a Muslim. Such a man could never have comprehended how an abstract concept can be conveyed through a symbolic representation in the form of an image. Thus he made all image representation a sin as well.

Vedic religion is known for its ancient oral tradition. It is well known that the Vedic culture emphasized oral debate and expression far more than the written word. In adition the oral recitation of Vedic scriptures was always done in a lyrical fashion, utilizing music and thus reaching a height of expression. In fear of this musical tradition Muhammad decided to forbid Music.

All Arabic copies of the Koran have the mysterious figure 786 imprinted on them . No Arabic scholar has been able to determine the choice of this particular number as divine. It is an established fact that Muhammad was illiterate therefore it is obvious that he would not be able to differentiate numbers from letters. This "magical" number is none other than the Vedic holy letter "
<ST1:place>OM</ST1:place>" written in Sanskrit (Refer to figure 2). Anyone who knows Sanskrit can try reading the symbol for "<ST1:place>OM</ST1:place>" backwards in the Arabic way and magically the numbers 786 will appear! Muslims in their ignorance simply do not realise that this special number is nothing more than the holiest of Vedic symbols misread.

Figure 2.
Read from right to left this figure
of
OM represents the numbers 786

There are many such instances where the symbols and rituals of Vedic culture were completely distorted and falsified by Muhammad in his bid to "create" his brand new religion. However in his haste to deceive and because of his ignorance and illiteracy, thousands of Vedic symbols still remain. Although they have been distorted beyond imagination, they still remain as solemn reminders of
Arabia's glorious Vedic past. They can never be supressed.

In fact the rise of Islam put a full stop to all the previous knowledge of
<ST1:pArabia</ST1:p. The imperialistic message of Islam diverted all energies into raiding, looting and destruction. The incentive to learn and preserve the Vedic wisdom that had thrived in <ST1:pArabia for so many centuries, was wiped out by the brutal pressure of Islam. Making easy money through loot and massacre was far more appealing than upholding the tenets of ancient knowledge. Gone were the schools, teachers, libraries, poets, artists, philosophers and scholars that had littered the Vedic landscape of Arabia like stars. Everyone had to become a raider if not from choice then for the sake of surviving the absolute intolerance of dissenters, that Islam preached. Thus was the light of learning extinguished in Arabia</ST1:p. All that remained was the Koran, the Kalma and the murderous hatred of anything Non-Muslim.

 
Dear Sampuran Singh ji,

Although I agree with you on many points , however this time with a few differences.

1. Mahabharata war was fought around 5300 years ago and not 7500 years as you have said.
2. You mean Hindu temple and not Vedic temple, because even today none of the Vedic temple have any idols. And there is no mention of Idol worship in any of the Vedas.

I do not buy the idea how the word Namaz was originated and I do not think any Muslim will also believe it. It is their thing and they would know it better. The only thing I know about them is that most of them are terrorists.
 
To find more about Jats and their history, it might be worth reading the history of Elam empire. Jats dominated the enite west Asia all along. Even today there is a town called Jatt ( Jat) in present day Israel;

http://www.fallingrain.com/world/IS/3/Jatt.html

Dahias and Tomars in Israel and then this Jatt town, all can not be linguistic coincidence. Post Mahabharat, Lots of Jats moved over to west Asia and established empires. Elmites opposed Judism, Christianity and Islam all. There are references in Bible and the Holi scriptures of Jews against Elamites. Elmites had names like Abiramu, Nasir pal and Bani Pal which are very much like our present day names. After the fall of Elam empire, many of these jats moved over to Eastern Europe. They followed the routes adjoining sea and then moved towards deeper lands.

Rajendra
 
Origin of jats

Arun Bhai Ram Ram.

There are gross differences amongst scholrs about the exaxt date of Mahabharat war. (i am not talking about the marxists or the anti-India weterners)

The word Hindu pertains to Geography, a corruption of Sindhu. In those days the religion was not called Hinduism. This annotation is fairly recent.



Who is bothered about whether Muslims believe something or not ? Obviously they wont at first instant. Pope wanted Galelio killed when the later said that the earth was round. Anyway, when a person is converted to Islam, first thing he is told to do is to forget his 'kafir' past. In fact, to hate it.
Read the following article for better understanding :-
http://www.indiacause.com/columns/OL_051120.htm
 
Let me take members back to the time when India was not part of mainland Asia and was an Island called Jambu Dweep. There was civilisation on this Island even during that period. There was not even Mount Everest at that time. Name of India is Jambu Dweep in all our Vedic and Puranic literature. Continental drift brought Jambu dweep near mainland Asia and created Mount Everest. This should give an idea to all of you about the age of Indian civilisation. We are not few thousand years old civilisation. We are rather millions of years old civilisation. Mount Meru (called Sumeru by Buddhists) was towards the northern part of Jambu dweep and has now disappeared into the Tibetan plateau. Names of later on civilisations like those of Sumeria were derived from the name of Mount Sumeru.. Reference to Jambu Dweep is in every India religion;

1. http://www.jainworld.com/education/veetrag2/lesson05.htm
2. http://www.gyanbooks.com/details.asp?id=102
3. http://www.answering-christianity.com/hindu_scripture.htm


India (Jambu Dweep) was the real crucible of civilisation and it’s from there that most of world civilisation originated. All religions on the Earth originated from India or from the people of Indian origin. Interestingly, Jats opposed every religion other than Vedic. There are references in both Bible and Holy book of Jews that Elamites ( Kadian Jats and others) need to be annihilated.

Rajendra
 
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Sampuran Singh Ji Namskar,

I agree , it is not possible to find the exact date.

according to one calculation (by Swamy Dayanand Saraswati) Mahabharat is almost 5300 years old. the current kaliyuga is almost 5100 years old and Mahabharat was fought towards the end of dwapar yuga. I think 2 or 3 generations of pandava rulled after the Mahabhart war and before the start of current kaliyuga. So we can assume the war was fought 100-150 years before the kaliyuga. and this adds up to 5300 years.

ofcourse others might have calculated the time according to some other formula. If you know some, please do let me know. or you can email me at arun_shamli@yahoo.com.

Thanks
Arun

sampuran said:
Arun Bhai Ram Ram.
There are gross differences amongst scholrs about the exaxt date of Mahabharat war. (i am not talking about the marxists or the anti-India weterners)

The word Hindu pertains to Geography, a corruption of Sindhu. In those days the religion was not called Hinduism. This annotation is fairly recent.


Who is bothered about whether Muslims believe something or not ? Obviously they wont at first instant. Pope wanted Galelio killed when the later said that the earth was round. Anyway, when a person is converted to Islam, first thing he is told to do is to forget his 'kafir' past. In fact, to hate it.
Read the following article for better understanding :-
http://www.indiacause.com/columns/OL_051120.htm
 
Further to my earlier posts on the subject, here is more on the Jatt village in Israel;

http://www.palestinemonitor.org/Special Section/Closure/one_mans_fence.htm

if you scan through this link, you will come across the following lines;

"You won't find a single person here who will dare take to the street," admitted Watad, the proprietor of a restaurant from Jatt. "People are afraid that the Border Police will kill them. We saw how they killed the 13 fellows in October. Rami Ghara of Jatt was also killed in those riots. The truth is that we are afraid. We know that this fence is a kind of occupation, because they have confiscated nearly 50,000 dunams from the Palestinian villages, and no one has protested. Our entire lives have changed because you people are prepared to do anything in the name of security."

The name Rami Ghara sounds like typical Jat name. I read in some other link that this village is about 6000 years old like Jeruslam.

Rajendra
 
RKji,
Jat references in Elamites are really interesting. There might have been migrations from India to middle-east and mediterranean regions...

However, Jambu dweep mythology about Indian culture being so ancient(miliion years) is totally non-sense. All human being were originated in Africa and first man came out only very recently 60,000 years back. The field of genetic evidences is contemporary and lots of works are coming up these days (where they take mitochondiral DNA and Y-chromosome of populations and sketch out journey of mankind). Man entered India first time 55,000 years back and kept journey on(without stopping) to reach Australia along coastal lines. Second wave came 35,000 years back through Hindu-kush and settled. This was almost end of the last ice-age, i.e. much much later than time when India was a island with sea at Himalaya's place. There are some proofs(bones etc) of hominoid homo-erectus(200,000years back) living in south-east asia but they became extinct and all humans came from Africa.
(Source:- I just finished "The Journey of Man" by Spencer Wells who was postdoc in Poonam's dept. in Stanford few years back:) , it talks about human migrations all over the world based on extensive genetic research; will share other details later)

There are lots of details but Hindu mythology shouldn't be taken word-by-word to explain anthropological history(particulay of time when script wasn't well developed, i.e. 4000BC maximum limit).

-Vinod

rkumar said:
Let me take members back to the time when India was not part of mainland Asia and was an Island called Jambu Dweep. There was civilisation on this Island even during that period. There was not even Mount Everest at that time. Name of India is Jambu Dweep in all our Vedic and Puranic literature. Continental drift brought Jambu dweep near mainland Asia and created Mount Everest. This should give an idea to all of you about the age of Indian civilisation. We are not few thousand years old civilisation. We are rather millions of years old civilisation. Mount Meru (called Sumeru by Buddhists) was towards the northern part of Jambu dweep and has now disappeared into the Tibetan plateau. Names of later on civilisations like those of Sumeria were derived from the name of Mount Sumeru.. Reference to Jambu Dweep is in every India religion;

1. http://www.jainworld.com/education/veetrag2/lesson05.htm
2. http://www.gyanbooks.com/details.asp?id=102
3. http://www.answering-christianity.com/hindu_scripture.htm


India (Jambu Dweep) was the real crucible of civilisation and it’s from there that most of world civilisation originated. All religions on the Earth originated from India or from the people of Indian origin. Interestingly, Jats opposed every religion other than Vedic. There are references in both Bible and Holy book of Jews that Elamites ( Kadian Jats and others) need to be annihilated.

Rajendra
 
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vinodks said:
.....However, Jambu dweep mythology about India being so ancient is totally non-sense. ...

Most nonsense word in science is to follow something as final word. You are talking as if these migration of man from Africa is the final word and there is nothing further to human history. Hope you know something about continetal drift and how India , Australia and Africa were one land mas once upon a time. How can one be sure that man migrated only from Africa and not via other broken portions of Australia and India ? Try to stretch your mind beyond written stuff as thats not the final word in science. If continetal drift is scientifical accepted fact, Jambu dweep is also an accepted fact.

RK^2
 
RKji, aap to naraz ho gaye....
Actually, in this case it's almost beyond doubt that all humans came from Africa because every single human has certain marker (M168) in their Y-chromosome which tells a common origin. Secondly, the age of that Adam from which all people came is 60,000 year which is calculated by number of newer markers times the time in which a newer marker gets introduced (by random shuffling).

Even if we go by older theory that human originated independently, like Neaderthal in Europe, Homo-erectus in south-asia and then Homo-sapiens.. beginning of civilization is just too late than time when there was sea at Himalaya....

60,000 years back sea level was 100m below than what its today(because of ice age) and costal path from East Africa to South Arabia to India to Malasia to Indonasia to Java to Sumatra to New Guinea to Australia was mostly land except streches less than 100km which can be easily crossed by wooden logs... This is nothing; around 10,000 years back people went to Hawai which is more than 3000km away from nearest land.... Sandy open coasts are easiest way for expansion becuz it provides constant food from sea and there are no barriers likes mountains, forest or deserts.... sandy coasts were ancient super-highway:-))...

Jambu dweep story
"According to the most accepted geological theories, India once belonged to an Island continent called Gondwanaland and was separated from the Eurasian continent by the primordial Tethyan ocean. One billion years ago, the Aravallis, whose eroded remnants are visible around Delhi, formed a chain higher than the Himalayas today. Over millions of years these mountains suffered the forces of erosion and their sediments were deposited in the Tethyan ocean. Then 140 million years ago, India began it's northward movement, on a collision course with the Eurasian continent.

The point where the two continents were joined is known, appropriately, as the Indus- Yarlung Suture zone, marked by the courses of these two greatest rivers of the Kailash. After 60 million years, the Indian and Asian plates became closely welded along this suture zone. The northward movement of India continued but at a slower rate - 2-3 centimeters per year."
from http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/5112/bio.html

So Jambu Dweep joined Asia 60 millions years back and its widely accpeted that first primate, like Chimpanzee, appeared on earth only 23 million years back. Cousins of Chimpanzee, other hominid were around 200,000-1.2 million years back and these species DIDN'T evolve in humans. It was another cousin of chimpanzee in south-east Africa which are our ancesters and ultimately they were forced to leave Africa due to expansion of Sahara. And this happened only recently. There are lots of proofs why human orginated in Africa not in India or Australia. One of them is genetic diversity. Genetic diversity in one village in Africa is almost equal to whole world combined. (you might think what about varieties like skin color, hair, heights etc. genes responsible for these outward appearances are very adaptive and is very small portion of human genome) If all people in world die except a big village in Sudan, most of genetic diversity is saved. Diversity inside a population is greater than diversity among populations. Why? because older populations has highest diversity, older populations get more time to have more genetic mutations than others.... and its universally accepted that Africa is oldest population.(not a final word, there is never a final word)

Continental drift is much slower process, takes millions years for significant distance while evolution of species (especially primates) is faster process.

Nothing in science is final word, theories keep changing but some basic principles remain same... In this case, there are just too many proofs to prove one thing over the other...

I agree India being an island is real story but there was no human being(not even monkeys) anywhere in world when it happened... Jambu dweep mythology might have been either imagination or reference to some other island..

-Vinod

rkumar said:
Most nonsense word in science is to follow something as final word. You are talking as if these migration of man from Africa is the final word and there is nothing further to human history. Hope you know something about continetal drift and how India , Australia and Africa were one land mas once upon a time. How can one be sure that man migrated only from Africa and not via other broken portions of Australia and India ? Try to stretch your mind beyond written stuff as thats not the final word in science. If continetal drift is scientifical accepted fact, Jambu dweep is also an accepted fact.

RK^2
 
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Origin of Man

An interesting (but far fetched) link to human history is given below. I have just pasted the initial part. More can be read from the website :

http://www.salagram.net/VWH-x-cultures.html

CROSS-CULTURAL TRACES OF VEDIC CIVILIZATION ...

by Sadaputa das (Dr Richard L. Thompson)

1991 The Bhaktivedanta Book Trust. Used by permission.
The ancient Greek writer Aratos tells the following story about the constellation Virgo, or the virgin. Virgo, he says, may have belonged to the star race, the forefathers of the ancient stars. In primeval times, in the golden age, she lived among mankind as Justice personified and would exhort people to adhere to the truth. At this time people lived peacefully, without hypocrisy or quarrel. Later, in the age of silver, she hid herself in the mountains, but occasionally she came down to berate people for their evil ways. Finally the age of bronze came. People invented the sword, and "they tasted the meat of cows, the first who did it." At this point Virgo "flew away to the sphere"; that is, she departed for the celestial realm.[1]
The Vedic literature of India gives an elaborate description of the universe as a cosmos -- a harmonious, ordered system created according to an intelligent plan as a habitation for living beings. The modern view of the universe is so different from the Vedic view that the latter is presently difficult to comprehend. In ancient times, however, cosmogonies similar to the Vedic system were widespread among people all over the world. Educated people of today tend to immediately dismiss these systems of thought as mythology, pointing to their diversity and their strange ideas as proof that they are all simply products of the imagination.
If we do this, however, we may be overlooking important information that could shed light on the vast forgotten period that precedes the brief span of recorded human history. There is certainly much evidence of independent storytelling in the traditions of various cultures, but there are also many common themes. Some of these themes are found in highly developed form in the Vedic literature. Their presence in cultures throughout the world is consistent with the idea that in the distant past, Vedic culture exerted worldwide influence.
In this article we will give some examples of Vedic ideas concerning time and human longevity that appear repeatedly in different traditions. First we will examine some of these ideas, and then we will discuss some questions about what they imply and how they should be interpreted.
In the Vedic literature time is regarded as a manifestation of Krsna, the Supreme Being. As such, time is a controlling force that regulates the lives of living beings in accordance with a cosmic plan. This plan involves repeating cycles of creation and destruction of varying durations. The smallest and most important of these repeating cycles consists of four yugas, or ages, called Satya, Treta, Dvapara, and Kali. In these successive ages mankind gradually descends from a high spiritual platform to a degenerated state. Then, with the beginning of a new Satya-yuga, the original state of purity is restored, and the cycle begins again.
The story of Virgo illustrates that in the ancient Mediterranean world there was widespread belief in a similar succession of four ages, known there as the ages of gold, silver, bronze, and iron. In this system humanity also starts out in the first age in an advanced state of consciousness and gradually becomes degraded. Here also, the progressive developments in human society are not simply evolving by physical processes, but are superintended by a higher controlling intelligence.
It is noteworthy that Aratos' story specifies the eating of cows as a sinful act that cut mankind off from direct contact with celestial beings. This detail fits in nicely with the ancient Indian traditions of cow protection, but it is unexpected in the context of Greek or European culture.
One explanation for similarities between ideas found in different cultures is that people everywhere have essentially the same psychological makeup, and so they tend to come up independently with similar notions. However, details such as the point about cow-killing suggest that we are dealing here with common traditions rather than independent inventions.
Another example of similarities between cultures can be found among the natives of North America. The Sioux Indians say that their ancestors were visited by a celestial woman who gave them their system of religion. She pointed out to them that there are four ages, and that there is a sacred buffalo that loses one leg during each age. At present we are in the last age, an age of degradation, and the buffalo has one leg.[2]
This story is a close parallel to the account in the Srimad Bhagavatam of the encounter between Maharaja Pariksit and the bull of Dharma. There, Dharma is said to lose one leg with each successive yuga, leaving it with one leg in the present Age of Kali. According to the Vedic system, the lengths of the Satya, Treta, Dvapara, and Kali yugas are 4, 3, 2, and 1 times an interval of 432,000 years. Within these immense periods of time the human life span decreases from 100,000 years in the Satya-yuga to 10,000 years in the Treta-yuga, 1,000 years in the Dvapara-yuga, and finally 100 years in the Kali-yuga.
 
namaskar chaudhary ashok sir

well a very wonderful combined and deep knowledge you have about jats.
i am very happy that there are few people who holds so important information about history

but i have got a question for you. in your post on 17th august 2002 you have told that delhi was ruled by a tomar king and this later resulted that tomar are found in western UP and MATHURA. well sir DABAS gotra is found in delhi. was not there DABAS at that time.. well as TOMAR shifted after delhi was attacked by MUSLIM emperors. it means dabas was not there at that time in delhi otherwise they would have been also shifted alog with TOMARS to weastern UP or MATHURA... but sir our villages(DABAS GOTRA) are here from more than 700 years.
how are dabas gotra in delhi now or why does not it shifted along with TOMARS or was not dabas gotra attacked by muslim emperors, thus only tomars were the enmy of muslim emperors?
 
?????????

What is this non-sense??? My message has been deleted without notifying me! I would request moderators to plz justify this. By chance I happened to come upon this 2 month old thread and found my post missing in thread where I contributed by spending my valuable time.

-vinod

vinodks said:
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Sampuranji, I don't really remember what was in post... I am waiting just how long it takes for moderators to see the appeal and respond... They are too eager to execize their dictatorial mouse click, lets see how 'responsible' they are to such matters... forums are of members, by members and for members... sounds funny?... anyway, if forums are made by just making a website each one of us can make one for his own in matter of 2 hrs... but thats not the point, so many worthy members are contributing here with sincerity... anyway lets see.

-Vinod

sampuran said:
Vinod Bhai please post again.
 
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