Reservation - How Relevant ?

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OBC ka virod kyo SC ST ka kyo nahi......

Reservation jad se hee khatam karde to kya etraj hai? meree samaj ke bahar hai. Yogytaa ka aadhar par yar garibee rekha se neeche ko Reservation milna chahiye ye bate tabhi kyo ayee jab jao ko OBC me shamil kiya gaya? kya isse pahle reservation sahee tha?

Jato ko reservation koi bheek me nahee mila sangarsh kar liya hai tato ne or reservation ka arth sirf aap log nokree se hee kyo le rahe hai aaj panch, sarpanch, MLA, MP har seet me resevation hai.

ya to reservation jad se hee khtam hona chahiye or agar or ko milta hai to jato ko kyo nahi...........


netra........:(
 
Jato ko reservation koi bheek me nahee mila sangarsh kar liya hai tato ne or reservation ka arth sirf aap log nokree se hee kyo le rahe hai aaj panch, sarpanch, MLA, MP har seet me resevation hai.

Bhai Netrapal

Sangarsh reservation ke liye hi kyo kiya. Reservation matlab wo jo aap le nahee sakte apne dam/dimag se. Sangarsh karna hai to jato main competition ko badava do, education do, scholorship do...reservation humaree future generation ko aapang karne ke liyee hai.

Baniye 60 saal se bina reservation ke hai pheer bhee reseved category se bahut aagee hai kyo???
 
For some decades now, it has been the policy of the government - at all levels - to reserve places of opportunity and power for specific sections of the population, notably the scheduled castes and tribes, and more recently other caste groups as well as women. Because this policy is intended to overcome a legacy of injustice and to provide all in this country with a broad measure of equal opportunities, it behooves us to periodically ask if the policy is working, and if yes, whether it has worked sufficiently that it may no longer be needed.

Are reservations working? Despite some positions remaining vacant for lack of suitable candidates from the reserved backgrounds, it is fair to say that reservations have ensured the first step towards equality - access. This is most visible in the political arena, where legislators from reserved constituencies and panchayats are immediately able to access the levers of state power. In other areas too - e.g. in the lower and middle rungs of the civil service, and in government-aided and funded educational institutions - the numbers of people from disadvantaged backgrounds has risen. If access alone were the measure of the policy's worth, then it would surely seem to have made progress in these arenas.

Such access has been contentious. Many, usually from high-caste backgrounds, believe that it is undeserved, and often at the expense of more meritorious others. Also, it is argued that many opportunities from affirmative action have not gone to the truly deserving or needy, but instead to the already privileged few from reserved backgrounds. On the other hand, many others - usually from the reserved backgrounds - point out that even such access has not resulted in significant social and economic gains for hundreds of millions of our citizens. The argument for and against reservations has tended to pit these views against each other.

But when measured by the full intent of reservations, these two opinions are not opposed to each other. In fact, it is precisely because both views are correct that we must persist with reservations. This can seem paradoxical, but it should not be.

It is an important element of affirmative action that merit alone is insufficient. A policy based only on merit would not recognize past - and continuing - injustices that may hinder the realization of their full potential by disadvantaged groups. In many cases, what we see as merit is the product of many years of social and economic opportunities, so that those who have not had these opportunities may appear to lack merit. Therefore, it is necessary that some positions be awarded to those who would be disqualified if relative merit were the only criterion. To argue that some individuals of high merit are being unfairly disqualified by reservations is to miss the point.
If merit is often the product of economic opportunity, why not use economic need itself as the criterion for affirmative action? This is often offered as the better alternative to reservations in their present form. Those of privileged backgrounds argue repeatedly that they would tolerate a policy based on economic need more readily than the present one. But this misses a vital quality of caste - that it is not merely a series of economic barriers thrust upon the lower classes, but also a set of social hurdles. The injustice that is sought to be corrected is not purely economic, and policies that begin by treating it as such will be incomplete in their justice.

Nor is such injustice a thing of the past. Routinely today, millions of our citizens whose upliftment is sought by affirmative action must endure reservations of another kind. They cannot drink water from the common wells, because those are reserved for others. Their children cannot sit alongside others in government-run schools; places at the front of the class are reserved for others while they must sit at the back, near the door, or in some grotesque cases outside the actual instruction room. They cannot enter the places of worship in their own villages and neighbourhoods, because those are reserved too. Their landlords can claim sexual rights over their women and bondage for generations, because even their bodies are not their own. Their dead cannot be cremated or buried at the same grounds as others, because even in death some things are reserved for others.

Not surprisingly, this depravity gives rise to another argument used in favour of dismantling reservations. Efficacy. Reservations are not working, it is argued, so take them out. This argument misses the premise of affirmative action. Affirmative actions of state policy are intended to ensure that access to public opportunities are not hijacked by the same prejudices that may prevail in the private relations of civil society. They raise the bar in the public sphere and are not put in place as time-bound guarantees or a panacea for social equity. Revocation of reservations cannot automatically follow merely because other progressive developments have not gained ground in civil society.

Anger at reservations is common, but such anger may be better channeled when it is targeted at the real problem. The few tens of thousands of jobs or college places that are subject to state policy on reservation are miniscule in comparison to the daily deprivations that hundreds of millions of citizens endure. The simple truth is, reservations - nearly all of them on the basis of caste - happen far more as a social custom (i.e. denial of access to water, or having children made to sit at the rear of classrooms, etc.) than through state policy. Those reservations of opportunities by custom are the larger phenomena; if we're going to be angry about reservations, we should begin by first attacking those. Only when we have made significant progress in erasing reservations that stem from social customs can we honestly focus on the much smaller issues of college positions and government jobs.

But that day is not here yet, and while we await it affirmative action must continue.

Cheers!!

Shobhit Deshwal.
 
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Question in mind

Dosto jesa ki Saddam Hussian ko Mardiya gya....

lekin hame Sadam Hussian se Kya jaan Lena Chahiye...?................................................:confused:
 
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Bhai Kamal,

Galat thread me galat sawal utha diya!!!

Saddam aala thread kimme hor sai!!!

Cheers!!

Shobhit Deshwal

Dosto jesa ki Saddam Hussian ko Mardiya gya....

lekin hame Sadam Hussian se Kya jaan Lena Chahiye...?................................................:confused:
 
We can not just wait and watch !

Are reservations working?

It is an important element of affirmative action that merit alone is insufficient. A policy based only on merit would not recognize past - and continuing - injustices that may hinder the realization of their full potential by disadvantaged groups. In many cases, what we see as merit is the product of many years of social and economic opportunities, so that those who have not had these opportunities may appear to lack merit. Therefore, it is necessary that some positions be awarded to those who would be disqualified if relative merit were the only criterion. To argue that some individuals of high merit are being unfairly disqualified by reservations is to miss the point.
Nor is such injustice a thing of the past. Routinely today, millions of our citizens whose upliftment is sought by affirmative action must endure reservations of another kind. They cannot drink water from the common wells, because those are reserved for others. Their children cannot sit alongside others in government-run schools; places at the front of the class are reserved for others while they must sit at the back, near the door, or in some grotesque cases outside the actual instruction room. They cannot enter the places of worship in their own villages and neighbourhoods, because those are reserved too. Their landlords can claim sexual rights over their women and bondage for generations, because even their bodies are not their own. Their dead cannot be cremated or buried at the same grounds as others, because even in death some things are reserved for others.

Anger at reservations is common, but such anger may be better channeled when it is targeted at the real problem. .

But that day is not here yet, and while we await it affirmative action must continue.

Cheers!!

Shobhit Deshwal.

Shobhit, your point is right.... but dont you think the benefit of this affirmative action is taken only by a very limited class, who actually doesn't need any reservation. It is the children of few privileged quota officers, who happen to get equal or better social and economic opportunities now, and choose the easy way out by taking advantage of quota again when the time comes to get entry into some premium institution, may it be medical, engineering, NDA, or MBA, or when going for jobs. And who suffers at the cost of this reservation, we from the general class who perhaps deserved it better if they choose to compete with us ! Till now the private sector was spared, so was some scope for the best to survive, but now as the govt. is making the reservation mandatory in private sector also, where the deserving ll go?
As you talked about discrimination in the society, one thing I feel , now things are changed, and so much of discrimaination is not there, yea I agree it used to be earlier. Even if its there in any extent, need of the time is to bring reforms in the society, in the minds of people. More important as I said earlier also, is to take the reformatory and corrective actions for the upliftment of underprivileged and to bring equality in the society.
And its not simply like that reservation is not working, take it back,,, the issue is reservation is being misused by a small segment of creme layer of this reserved class, who actually doesn't need it.
Yea the anger is obvious, and we can not just wait and watch seeing unjustice done. No affirmative actions is being taken by reservation, rather they are creating another kind of discrimination among the different classes in the society. Its just vote politics, nothing else. Again we are going to suffer by the DIVIDE AND RULE POLICY.
 
Are reservations working? Despite some positions remaining vacant for lack of suitable candidates from the reserved backgrounds, it is fair to say that reservations have ensured the first step towards equality - access. ...

But that day is not here yet, and while we await it affirmative action must continue.

Cheers!!

Shobhit Deshwal.

Bhai Shobhit, bura mat manana but wouldn't it be better if you post your own views in discussions like these or tell the reference?

As for discrimination in our society due to caste, I believe all that is still very much rampant in our villages and small towns where so called chamars, nais and other lower castes cannot even sit together or drink same water with so-called higher castes viz. Brahmans, Rajputs or us Jats. If all of us ask our grandparents about giving equal rights to the lower castes or letting them having food alonwith us, they will fume as they have lived in a society where this divide was created long time ago and being followed as customs throughout centuries. Otherwise what is the difference between a Nai and a brahman..doesn't nai take a bath, doesn't he wear good clothes? Just because they are doing a task as per their skill doesnt make them a lesser human being..

All these reservations in the name of cutting down this caste divide is a sham. Rather they are creating a bigger divide now just like britishers did. When I was in school, I didn't even know who in my class was SC/ST or OBC so where is the question of discriminating with them. Why in each official application whether its for a job or college or examination, a person's caste and religion is asked? Does that really matter for anything except that these bloody politicians policies..There are thousands of surnames today in India and nobody would be able to determine just by the surname what a persona caste is - so if this simple thing is ousted from all our forms, no discrimination will happen atleast in Cities.

The government needs to devise policies to finish casteism in villages by making stringent rules for any discrimination in those societies. We need to educate the masses and end this manuwadi system. When there are no more castes, there will be no more discriminations. Every human is born equal and there is no class system of souls.

Just think for a moment, even though every religion claims its best and the only way to god, each religion itself is divided in atleast 2 school of thoughts which keep on fighting between themselves. In Islam, we have Sunni and Shitte, in Christianity, we have Catholics and Protestants, in hinduism, we have 1000 of castes. Even if these sub cultures are destroyed within each religion, world be much better a place to live, reservation or no reservation.
 
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Reservation is to give certain *disadvantaged (open to interpretation)* a chance.

Reservation lowers the barrier to entry, medical school in his case, it doesn't lower the degree of training. -:)


Reservation abolition is reservation for all I think we must fight for its abolition.

Please answer just one question

if someone from your near and dear is fighting for life will you go for that Doctor, who is a doctor not because of his talent but because of reservation???

My vote: I won't go and there is no doubt about it.

waiting for yours vote??
 
Reservation is a contentious issue which if not done away with may one day lead to pogrom. It has nothing to do with the upliftment of so called dalits as reservation has polarised even them. Those dalits or SC/STs who grabbed the opportunity early continue to benefit whereas those who were left behind in villages are still in pathetic condition. It has become hereditary, which should be stopped. If at all the reservation is to be given, it should be given irrespective of caste to those who :

(i) have studied in a village school;
(ii) have scored a minimum of 60% marks;
(iii) have no parent already employed in government.

Reservation should be only at the entry level. Their should be an option for reservationists, either to avail it for higher education or for securing a job. Present form of reservation, from cradle to grave, will definitely create problem for the country one day and should be opposed.

It is a pity that hundreds of questions are asked in Parliament if reserved posts are not filled for want of suitable candidates. Has anyone asked the question as to how many SC/STs died fighting for the country or in terrorist attacks. Why they are being made to flourish in cosy jobs. How many of the reserved category policemen have been given commendation certificates for showing bravery. Hardly any, and why should they put their life in danger when promotions are served to them on a platter.
 
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Reservation is a contentious issue which if not done away with may one day lead to pogrom. It has nothing to do with the upliftment of so called dalits as reservation has polarised even them. Those dalits or SC/STs who grabbed the opportunity early continue to benefit whereas those who were left behind in villages are still in pathetic condition. It has become hereditary, which should be stopped. If at all the reservation is to be given, it should be given irrespective of caste to those who :

(i) have studied in a village school;
(ii) have scored a minimum of 60% marks;
(iii) have no parent already employed in government.

Reservation should be only at the entry level. Their should be an option for reservationists, either to avail it for higher education or for securing a job. Present form of reservation, from cradle to grave, will definitely create problem for the country one day and should be opposed.

It is a pity that hundreds of questions are asked in Parliament if reserved posts are not filled for want of suitable candidates. Has anyone asked the question as to how many SC/STs died fighting for the country or in terrorist attacks. Why they are being made to flourish in cosy jobs. How many of the reserved category policemen have been given commendation certificates for showing bravery. Hardly any, and why should they put their life in danger when promotions are served to them on a platter.

Very Rightly said Sir, This was exactly my point when I started this thread.
 
Exactly !

Has anyone asked the question as to how many SC/STs died fighting for the country or in terrorist attacks. Why they are being made to flourish in cosy jobs. How many of the reserved category policemen have been given commendation certificates for showing bravery. Hardly any, and why should they put their life in danger when promotions are served to them on a platter.

Why don't these politicians start reservation in armed forces especially among soldiers fighting at borders and let us see how many people from reserved category responds and ready to take 'benefit'.
 
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