Scandinavia and Jats

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dear parda
I SHOULD NOT SAY HAVE YOU READ ROMILA THAPAR BOOK ON ANCIENT INDIA
HER HISTORICAL DETAILS ARE TOLD TO YOU VIA NCERT BOOKS
HER VIVID DETAILS ABOUT ARYANS COMING ON HORSES CUTTING FORESTS STARTING AGRICULTURE ETC ARE TAKEN AS SERIOUS HISTORY AND CONSIDERED THE RIGHT APPROACH SINCE YOU NEVER HINTED ABOUT THAPARISED HISTORY WE ASSUME UR ALSO IMPRESSED BY HER ANALYTICAL DREAMS.

OUR HISTORY IS BAD AND THAPAR HISTORY IS GOOD WHY YAAR......?

ONLY BECAUSE IT HAS BEEN TOLD BY SOME BURDAK,TEWATIA,KHARB OR CHAUDHAY

JATS DREAMS ARE MORE SOUND THAN OTHERS OF THAPAR ...STYLED GROUP.
 
Narneder kharb sahab, who is romilla thapar, yeh naam pahli baar suna hae, kasam seee. pahlee aryan invasion tha, now theory ke aise ke taise ho gayee? woh kaisee?
 
narenderkharb said:
dear parda
I SHOULD NOT SAY HAVE YOU READ ROMILA THAPAR BOOK ON ANCIENT INDIA
HER HISTORICAL DETAILS ARE TOLD TO YOU VIA NCERT BOOKS
HER VIVID DETAILS ABOUT ARYANS COMING ON HORSES CUTTING FORESTS STARTING AGRICULTURE ETC ARE TAKEN AS SERIOUS HISTORY AND CONSIDERED THE RIGHT APPROACH SINCE YOU NEVER HINTED ABOUT THAPARISED HISTORY WE ASSUME UR ALSO IMPRESSED BY HER ANALYTICAL DREAMS.

OUR HISTORY IS BAD AND THAPAR HISTORY IS GOOD WHY YAAR......?

ONLY BECAUSE IT HAS BEEN TOLD BY SOME BURDAK,TEWATIA,KHARB OR CHAUDHAY


Kharab sahab,

i suggest u to ignore all the posts of PARDA about JAT HISTORY.Please concentrate on ur search about JAT history & avoid the posts sent by PARDA related to this topic.

Pardeep BHAI ne aap logo ke VIRODH mein bolne ki kasam kha rahi hai..................................:)
Click to expand...
 
HOODA SAHEB
Objection was not on Aryan invasion or not
objection was against her dreaming about India as a land covered with forests with original inhabitants knowing nothing about agriculture and aryans cutting these forests and only then india knowing anything what agriculture is about.Her assumption about people living here is nothing more than fantacy however none seems to doubt this in HRD.You know very well jats defended Indian borders against Islamic tide since Kasim times but none mentioned it. Jat king fighting against some fanatic robbers is mentioned not by these jats but by Muslim historian can you say that is wrong,yet it is mentioned that the word jat came in use very late as if these jats never existed, are you sure that tomar kings not jats any proof? However you find many proof that they were in fact Jats yet you find mention of jats only via Surajmal or highway robbers. who was RANJIT SINGH was he not a jat? DO u find any mention of rajas of Jind nabha patiala as JATS.Clearly history presentation has been cloured with an anti jat bias,People here are trying to present our case to such historians, However I agree to your point that any claim should be backed by some reasoning.
 
We should give Pradeep ji, the benefit of the doubt.

If he has not heard of Romilla Thapar, that is a frank admission.

Quite naturally his ideas of history (just like the rest of us) are from what we were taught as school kids in our school textbooks.

In all of these textbooks, right upto University level there is no mention of the Jats.

What little there is, is denigratory!

According to Indian history texts books, at school or University level, Jats are Shudra, low caste, and peasants. They were nomads, ruled by Brahmins in Sindh, and they moved upto Punjab and Haryana/U.P in the wake of, and hanging onto the coat tails of the Islamic invaders, i.e they were the srf of the Islamics or the Rajputs.

They were bandits and plunders of travelers in the Agra- Mathura Delhi area, and rebelled against Imperial authority.

Oh yes, these peasants created a small kingdom under Surajmal at Bharatpur, but did not support the Hindu Mahrattas against Abdali at Panipat;,they destroyed the silver ceiling at the Red Fort, besides looting Agra, desecrating the grave of the Great Emperor of India” Akbar( who is touted , incorrectly, as the greatest secular, tolerant emperor of India) and burning his bones.

I could go on but I think you will get the drift.

In other words this is how Indian history teaches Indians students, about the Jats.

Any surprise that the acronym doing the rounds is “JAT- Just Avoid them”

Vaguely, Jats however think they are Aryans and Kshatriyas. They think that they are fit only two careers police as sepahis, or as jawans in the Army Jawans, apart from their ancestral profession of being shudras and peasants.

Most Jats today have this problem. They know nothing about their history or culture{how could they? no one taught them!}


Pradeep, my point about bringing up the fantasy of ‘Aryans and Aryans Invasion theory” as acceptable history has nothing to with an individual called Romilla Thapar

It has to with the axiom that - "if fantasy can be taught as official History, what is wrong with our members starting off with ideas that may even border on fantasy".

[Thapar is a lady, who in the fifties studied history in England, returned to India, joined JNU asa lecturer, made an academic career amid clique of Indian Historians, Habib, Dutta etc who took over the historiography of History India,- what version of history and how it would be taught- they largly have a Marxist bent, which seeks to show Hindus in a poor light, and Islam in a good one.

Habib and the Hindu writers have no love for the Jats; hence the Jat history is eliminated from Indian history textbooks.

Thapar also does not know any Indian languages, yet presents herself as an authority on India ]



The Aryan Invasion theory - and this is not the place to argue it. There are plenty of sites where this debate is going on. If members like, they can start a separate thread.

Do a web search and you will find plenty of information. see http://www.india-forum.com/forums/


Our purpose here, on this site, is to allow members “space” to bring out their thoughts.

Having done that , they should use the same rigorous scientific approach and reasoning, that they use when they study for a math or physics paper or conduct a scientific experiment.

Our method is to expose the material to readers (including people who have no idea), allow them to digest it, and make up their own minds.

If you wish to learn, you are welcome to go through the Archives here, and on the Yahoo Jat History group (URL below) and on
www. Jatword.net etc

If you have specific questions post them, here or in the Yahoo jathistory group, or send me a private e-mail.

Take care and good luck

Best regards

Ravi Chaudhary
 
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muttra museum and origin of sakas

here is a statue of maharaja kanishka without head. he started saka era.

origin of the scythians is claimed 2 b from one: Targita (tri jata rakshasi of ramayna) or Targitaus; and the swedish name, its equivalent, is Skjuta; teh scythian-getae of ancient greek writers; the people called "Garta" or Garta-sad, by the vedas, the later jarta is but a form of "garta", whose king is named as rudra, who themselves are called maruts, "the soldiers of indra" in rig n atharva veda. "The horse sacrifice, prevalent among the getic nations, is the solid proof of the fact that that these people descended from the scythians"

the sadas of veda, modern saad jats of village seoul at palwal (though not by gotra), the sakas of later indian literature, the scjuta of Sweden. Mahabharta is full of the names of jat clans. The Tusars, Kankas, Lampaks (modern lamba jats), Audhrans (founders of modern andhra pradesh in india), Chhinas (founders of modern china), Sindhus (founders of modern india), Jakhads, Jaglains, Lohans (of lahore), Khatkals, Hansas (medieval n modern huns), Halas, Tomars, Chahans, Daradas, Tangals, Yaudheyas, Gandas, Khaks, Balls, Sibis (Suevies of greeks, sexon of europe), Virks (harsha vardhana), Madras (madan/maderna jats of 2day),....... its endless list.
 
Jat character (Jat Charitram Varnami)

Jat is a loyal subject if treated well, and threats have opposite reaction on jat. When the Romans threatened Alarik, the Goth, in 410 AD with the vast multitudes of roman population, and its wrath against him he gave a typical Jat reply "Thicker the hay, easier moved".
 
just google these words "targita", "Targitaus" etc. n u'll find sources

<TABLE borderColor=#cccc99 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 border=0><TBODY><TR><TD colSpan=2>Scythia is called the region to the north and northeast of the Black Sea. Mount Caucasus, where Prometheus 1 was nailed and kept bound for many years, is a Scythian mountain. Scythia is the abode of one of the WINDS, the North Wind Boreas 1. The inhabitants of this region called themselves Skoloti, but the Greeks called them Scythians. There were three main clans among the Scythians, deriving from the three sons of their ancestor Targitaus [see below].
</TD></TR><TR><TD width="20%">
</TD><TD>
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width="20%">Scythia and Cimmeria
</TD><TD>Io, in her wanderings came to Scythia and Cimmeria, which are in the same region. The Cimmerians were driven from their territory by the Scythians, who were a nomad people, and when the Scythians had driven the Cimmerians out of Europe, pursuing them in their flight, they came to Media in Asia and destroyed the kingdom of the Medes. In fact they pillaged vast areas in the Middle East, reaching as far as Egypt. During their rule, which lasted almost three decades, they not only collected the regular tribute, but also, riding the country, carried off the common people's possessions, thus ruining the whole territory with their violence. The Scythians did not expand to the north because, as they said, in the north both earth and sky are full of feathers, and the showers of feathers hindered the sight.
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width="20%">The First Scythian
</TD><TD>The first of the Scythians is said to be Targitaus, son of Zeus and a daughter of the river god Borysthenes. This Borysthenes is also said to be the father of Thoas 3, who was first king of Lemnos and later king of the Taurians, before whom Orestes 2, son of Agamemnon, was brought. Thoas 3 was hidden by his daughter Hypsipyle when the Lemnian women killed their husbands, and later he fled to Tauris. Orestes 2 came to Tauris, which is a part of Scythia, and was there in danger because the Scythians used to murder strangers and throw them into the sacred fire.
</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width="20%">Colaxais becomes king by a marvel
</TD><TD>The sons of Targitaus, Lipoxais, Arpoxais, and Colaxais ruled the country that their father had found desolate. During their reign, a plough, a yoke, a sword, and a flask, all made of gold, fell down from the sky into Scythia. When either Lipoxais or Arpoxais tried to approach the objects, the gold began to burn, but when Colaxais came near them the burning stopped. For this reason the two brothers agreed to give all the royal power to Colaxais, who was the youngest among them
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
 
another peshawar/purushpur/pakhtoon people of Shakuni's fame

ANATOLIA IN THE OLD ASSYRIAN PERIOD HISTORY
The oldest contact of Anatolia with the Akkadian-speaking peoples appears to go back to the time of the Dynasty of Agade. A legendary account, the so-called epic King of the Battle, relates that a group of merchants from the Anatolian city of Purushkhanda sent a delegation to the king Sargon of Agade, urging him to undertake a campaign to their city and vividly describing the wealth of their country. Sargon is reported in the legend to have, after some hesitation, acceded to the merchants’ request leading his troops to Purushkhanda.
Another historiographical text, the Legend of Naram-Sin, implies that the city of Purushkhanda belonged to realm of Sargon’s grandson. Here it is related that a strange host, descending from the city of Shubat-Enlil in the country of Subartu, i.e. from northern Mesopotamia, invaded Naram-Sin’s kingdom, first attacking Purushkhanda and then, turning east and finally south, advanced toward the heartland of the Akkadian Empire. It is significant that Hittite versions of both of these tales have come to light at Bogazkoy and that Sargon’s exploits in Asia Minor are alluded to by the Hittite king of Khattushilish I (c. 1650 B.C.) in an historical inscription; for this tends to show that the later population of Anatolia considered the Old Akkadian period the beginning of their country’s recorded history. It is further worth noting that in the King of the Battle one of the principal actors bore the name of Nur-daggal, which stands for Nur-Dagan. Since, in the belief of the Akkadians, the lands dominated by the god Dagan lay west and north-west of the city of Tuttul (near the mouth of the river Balikh) the name Nur-Dagan perhaps implies that the merchants of Purushkhanda were not Akkadians but western Semites who were anxious to enter into commercial relations with Akkad.
The first ruler whose contacts with that part of Asia Minor which, in the Hellenistic period, was called Cappadocia, are well attested is Erishum I of Assyria (c. 1941-1902 B.C.). Two copies of an original inscription of this king recording his building activity in the complex of the Ashur temple in the city of Ashur were excavated in 1948 at Kultepe, a site near the modern village of Karahuyuk, not far from Kayseri in central Asia Minor. With this ruler began an era in the history
 
?

What has all this to do with jats of today or any of the northern Indian people? They don't look like white people. They look mixed. Some have black colour just like the dravidian people, some brown, some wheatish, some light brown but none white. What has germans of yesteryears got to do with Indian people. Indians don't look like germans. Over the centuries different peoples from different areas outside Indian subcontinent have come and mixed with the northern Indian people and so there is no way anyone can say they are 100% pure people and 100% correctly pinpoint their genetic origins. No way.
 
old jat area was from ganges to the west of caspian sea

v take jambudwipa 2 b identical with india n search fr the solutions here as if whole world is here n here only. The puranas explicitly say that bharat varsha is only varsha, meaning a part, of jambudwipa.

v hear dakshita kurus (southern kurus) in haryana area. n uttara kurus (northern kurus) in the north of meru parvata (pamirr moutains). The madras (modern punjab) n there r uttara madra (northern madra) people. the pakhtoons/pashtoons are in kabul/kandhar area right since the period of rigveda; n yet the Assyrian king Sargon-1 was fighting the "Uttara-pashtoon" in their city of Purushkhanda in Cappadocia in third millenium BC. We have a river called kuru(sh) or kur in the west of Caspian sea, and an area called Kourupedion (the land of Kurus) in the west of present Iraq, exactly like Kurukshetra (the land of Kurus) in india.

All these facts, along with some other facts n notices, pin-point the fact that the lands of Uttara Kurus, Uttara Madras, Uttara Pashtoons were in the region of Caspian n Black seas.

In fact jats were at the centre those times in this land from uttara kurus to dakshina kurus. like they r 2day from indus in the west 2 ganges n chambal in the east.<!-- / message -->
 
Bhai dutt ja....

Bhairav Dahiyaji:)
Bhai tu kiit jaake daatege.
Do u know any thing about genetic inbreeding and outbreeding.
I can understand these words for u are convoluted, nevertheless let me tell u some thing. People from europe dont resemble us does not mean that they have no link with us.
Manne to nyu laage se ke tu JAT e konya.
Na to iisi bawali baat na karre. Marre yaar kyan te naam dob rehya se;)
kimme le de ke maan ja iib:p
Tadke aawe to kimme soch ke bhonkiye aare.;)
 
Jats in ancient middle east and central asia

Almost every tribe of ancient middle east (West asia) and central asia, is represented among the present day jats in india.All tribes have individual histories, and significantly, they are called Guti/Guts/Djati/Jatoi/Gets/Jits/Juts etc. In the 3rd millennium bc we find not only a people called Guti, as over lords of Sumer, Akkad, Lagash and Babylon but we also find their country called Gutium. V find the first king, named Murut or Maruta, and the last king named Trigan who was overthrown by Uttu Khegal Warak from the present Virk clan of Jats, the Varka of ancient Sumer/Iran, the Urukan or Hyrcan of Greek writers.

Again, V find a people called Amuru by the Egyptians, and Amorites by historians. Cambridge Ancient History explains that the first letter 'A' is added in order to make pronunciation easier by semitic people; and so the name remains is Muru/Mor, Moore/More of Europe, the Mor/Maur of Indian Jats, and the Mauryas of Asoka fame. Significantly, the Egyptians have put it on record that the people, Amuru/Amorites, came from "The land of Djati", the land of Guts, or Gutium, of the ancient Sumerians/Babylonians/Assyrians. Hence it was the Mor/More/Moor clan of jats, in 2200 BC which attacked Egypt from the area of Lesser Zab and Ararat mountains. The Riar clan is remembered in the city of Riar and the Parsua Treres are the Parswal/pharswal/phalswal and Tarar jats of today. Recently one Rafique Ahmad Tarar was the President of Pakistan.

Again we find teh kingdom of Ven on Ven Lake in Armenia in 1000 BC. They are the Banae of the later Greek writers, modern Benville of Europe and Beniwal jats of India. Ven(a) is village of jats in distt. Aligarh. Bebiwal king Raja Chakravarti Ben/Ven (the Chakwa Ben) is famous in Indian legends fro Punjab to Bengal without finding a place in the present day history. Its similar to Porus about whom indian historical sources are silent n whatever v gather about him is from greek sources only.

Significantly the ven kings took the titles of "King of Kings", "King of the World"-the titles which were later taken up by the achaeminians of Iran. In addition Ven kings are called, "The king of Biainas" and "King of Naire". These titles show that Ven kingdom included the Bains and Nara/nahra clan of jats also. They extended their power over Manna/Mannai and the Dayeni/Dahi people. These Mannai on the south of Lake Urumiya are Mann jats, as Cambridge Ancient History expressly says that Mannai was "the Land of Man". Dayeni/Dahi are modern Dahiya jats.

Again v find Ec-batana as ancient big city and capital of persian empire, can be compared with the modern Batana/Bhatana/Bhatona village of Tewatia jats in Bulandshahar district.

teh list of historical similarity with the present day jats in india is endless n can be proved to n e extent.
 
keshavdahiya said:
Bhairav Dahiyaji:)
Bhai tu kiit jaake daatege.
Do u know any thing about genetic inbreeding and outbreeding.
I can understand these words for u are convoluted, nevertheless let me tell u some thing. People from europe dont resemble us does not mean that they have no link with us.
Manne to nyu laage se ke tu JAT e konya.
Na to iisi bawali baat na karre. Marre yaar kyan te naam dob rehya se;)
kimme le de ke maan ja iib:p
Tadke aawe to kimme soch ke bhonkiye aare.;)
Click to expand...

Keshav Bhai Ha ha ha ! yaa kuchchh jyada kasooti kahi.
Yoh likhan ka style pasand aaya.
Bhairav bhai nothing against your viewpoints.
 
keshavdahiya said:
Bhairav Dahiyaji:)
Bhai tu kiit jaake daatege.
Do u know any thing about genetic inbreeding and outbreeding.
I can understand these words for u are convoluted, nevertheless let me tell u some thing. People from europe dont resemble us does not mean that they have no link with us.
Manne to nyu laage se ke tu JAT e konya.
Na to iisi bawali baat na karre. Marre yaar kyan te naam dob rehya se;)
kimme le de ke maan ja iib:p
Tadke aawe to kimme soch ke bhonkiye aare.;)
Click to expand...
Ek baar to ban kiya tanne ek baar aur kar do bhai sarpancho isko.
Tere gol mol zawab ka koi matlab nahee. Tanne european hone ka shok lag raha lagta hae. Zabardasti rishta jod lee apna. Lagta hae tanne genetic inbreeding ke bare mein jayada hee malum hae. :D
 
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