Scandinavia and Jats

[ravichaudhary]

Kharab bhai, if Jat is a race, then members of this race today will be doing all types of professional activities. If they can be in military, academia, agriculture etc, why not Chamars.

Mr Singh

Why do you go for the Chamar angle.

Why do not go for the Rishi/Sant angle?

There are many Jats who were Rishis,Sadhus/Sants too, Any reason you do not mention them?


and, yes they can be Leather workers, which is all that Chamars were.

What is the big deal?.

Why push a simplistic Late Hindu caste status, be it "kshatriya or Shudra or Vaishya or anything else' on them?

The Jats choose not to accept these labels? They have not in the past and do not do so now?

 

[narenderkharb]

Sampuran>......I want to say that sepratism always existed letus try to short out that first.

We got your point First work against sepratism than try this history business.

For how much time we should keep our selves away from this history search specify is it 10 or 50 or 100 years, will it be sufficient?

If searching history may have affected national integration than govt of india would have stopped all spendings on this national heritage business.Or we should say this to jats only?

Will you specify have you given this advice to other groups also who you say I do visit,or integration is the duty of jats only

I need an honest answer

 

[narenderkharb]

Now you try to understand why we are thinking it is important

As I told you earlier despite of our being largest group in north west and valour of our fore fathers we found nothing of that sort in history books,We felt either they are ignorant or they do not want to write about it.

We saw the attitude of political parties which was negative to outrageous.

Communist party mazine on internet on ncert controvrsy(a punjabi lady writer and senior commerade) said It is a fact that jats were bandits only.
I objected pointing king harsha,kanishka,tomar jats of delhi,rajput titler jats of rajasthan gohad king ....and many more ,her typical reply was where is the proof?I wondered had she taken proof while portraying them rajputs or non jats.So we decided let us try to present them irrefutable reasons hence the intrest in jat history.

I was really shocked by the attitude of bjp govt.who knowing very well about league of red and muslim allianse instead of giving jats due share in history ,and respect, said We want to delete some lines only saying jats were bandits as it will hurt them .

See this intrigration and magnanimity of BJP andRSS who are endorsing this false history of irfan and romilla duo and having a pity on us

These things might not have hurt you since you say I HAVE NO BUSINESS........but I was HURT AND SO I FEEL EVERY JAT CAN BE.

So we thought we should try to put our case, if you think we should not PLESE TELL US AGAIN.

 

[lrburdak]

Kharbji,

Regarding your querry on connection of Jats with Scandinavia I do not have proofs so far regarding the connection between Jats and Scandinavian gods. We started this discussion of connection of Jats with Scandinavia taking a clue from History of Jats by Thakur Deshraj that Jats as Asi people reached Scandinavia and founded Jutland over there.

My assumption was that if Jats had gone to Scandinavia there must be some proofs today also. There are no records in Scandinavia also of that period. We can get some history from the Mythology of Scandinavia. We find that there are some common things, Particularly the gotras and traditions. The Scandinavians treated some living characters as Gods. My belief is that these gods were the warriors later treated as gods and the gotras on their name were descended from them.

SK Tewatiaji has provided number of gotras of Jats prevalent in that region and it can be taken as a sufficient proof that Jats had gone to Scandinavia. Very shortly I will provide details of Scandinavian mythology. The Scandinavian mythology provides information about some gods predominantly viz Asir, Burr, Thor, Odin, Vanir, Dagur etc. All these are found in Jats as gotras also. May I request the members to provide more information on the subject!!!

 

[narenderkharb]

You are very right Burdak ji so much similarity does indicate some bond what is the nature of that further research may throw light on that.

 

[sktewatia]

"Jats are not a hindu caste they r a race"

Sir John saymore said it in round about india.

 

[sktewatia]

Romania n Jats, a natural talk of 2 jats, after 1000s of years

danbluefire: hi
danbluefire: wait to put my head set
lotus_a2001: hi
danbluefire: hear me?
lotus_a2001: no
danbluefire: say someting
lotus_a2001: ok
danbluefire: hear you slow
danbluefire: i hear someting
lotus_a2001: u hear me
danbluefire: i hear u
danbluefire: yes
danbluefire: do you?
lotus_a2001: no
danbluefire: i hear
danbluefire: hmm
lotus_a2001: cant hear u
lotus_a2001: u hear me?
lotus_a2001: hi
lotus_a2001: hi
lotus_a2001: hi
lotus_a2001: hi
danbluefire: didnt hear u
danbluefire: now i hear u
lotus_a2001: hi
danbluefire: who is fast talker in punjab?
lotus_a2001: i cnt hear u
danbluefire: i dont know why
danbluefire: i hear you
lotus_a2001: y
lotus_a2001: y
lotus_a2001: ihear
lotus_a2001: now
lotus_a2001: u hear now
lotus_a2001: i hear u
danbluefire: yes
danbluefire: gr8
lotus_a2001: sudhir
lotus_a2001: the tewatia
lotus_a2001: teh jat
lotus_a2001: the getz
danbluefire: yes
lotus_a2001: frm the land of djati
lotus_a2001: the djeti
lotus_a2001: plz type wht u say
danbluefire: who is sudhir
lotus_a2001: me is sudhir
danbluefire: you?
danbluefire: hehe
lotus_a2001: the name given by my parents
danbluefire: nice ti meet you
danbluefire: what is mean
lotus_a2001: i'm the tewatia also
lotus_a2001: the name given by my forefathers the thousands of yrs back
lotus_a2001: ys sudhir maens having good patience
danbluefire: is an indian name?
lotus_a2001: tewatia is unusually un-known name that v've 2 search
lotus_a2001: n find out which name is this
lotus_a2001: sudhir is indian name like rajput
lotus_a2001: just a few hundred/thousand yrs old
danbluefire: ur rajput?
lotus_a2001: no
danbluefire: so ur name is sudhir tewatia
lotus_a2001: jat/jatt/jaaatt/gattt/get/jet/jati/djati/gatii/
lotus_a2001: ... endless, more than aryans
lotus_a2001: aryans were just of our branches
danbluefire: i dont know
danbluefire: i alwais belive that jats was a branchews of aryans
lotus_a2001: no
danbluefire: you have prooves for this?
lotus_a2001: truth is otherway round
lotus_a2001: aryan were jats
danbluefire: hard to belive this
lotus_a2001: jats r more prominent than aryans
danbluefire: what are the prooves for this?
lotus_a2001: read kephart kelvin
lotus_a2001: 7700 bc
danbluefire: i didnt hear abt kelvin
lotus_a2001: they crossed tien mountains
danbluefire: i know that jats was the most powerful wariors among aryans
danbluefire: but not that they was bigger in number then aryans
lotus_a2001: no,
lotus_a2001: u'r mistaken
danbluefire: my father is very patriot
danbluefire: he belive that aryans came from romania not from india
lotus_a2001: that every jat is
danbluefire: what is your opinion
lotus_a2001: my father also is very patriot
lotus_a2001: 80 yrs old
danbluefire: oh
lotus_a2001: nvr consumed a single medicine till 2day
danbluefire: thats gr8
lotus_a2001: my grandfather was also patriot
danbluefire: i was hv only a grandmather so strong
danbluefire: all the family
danbluefire: seems
lotus_a2001: my grandmother also died after 80
lotus_a2001: not even a single tooth was broken
danbluefire: waw
lotus_a2001: thats wht
lotus_a2001: dev samhita says
danbluefire: who is dev samhita
lotus_a2001: that these jats were born from the daughters of daksha prajapati
lotus_a2001: its sm highly religious book of hindus
lotus_a2001: its a story being told by siva teh pasupati to his wife parvati
danbluefire: daksha u say
lotus_a2001: daksha had 3 daughters
lotus_a2001: diti, aditi n danu
danbluefire: i heard that he hv 10000 sons
lotus_a2001: frm diti, daityas (assurs) were born
lotus_a2001: like assur banipal of assyria etc
lotus_a2001: from aditi adityas (devas) were born
lotus_a2001: from danu, danavas, danes the the nordic branch of aryan was born
danbluefire: denmark
lotus_a2001: but in fact deva, assur n danes r originally brothers
danbluefire: asura mean devil
danbluefire: in sanskrit
danbluefire: no>?
lotus_a2001: jat itself means devil the dracula
danbluefire: lol
danbluefire: was a organosation of the dragon
lotus_a2001: thats only when he is agitated
danbluefire: in order to defennd against muslim
danbluefire: from here was name dracula
lotus_a2001: romania
lotus_a2001: n e way tell me ur common surnames/clans
lotus_a2001: u've dahiyas?
lotus_a2001: tatars?
lotus_a2001: gills?
lotus_a2001: manns?
danbluefire: the clans are lost long timew ago
danbluefire: it was a king in 10 century call gelu
danbluefire: menumorut ,like manu maruti
danbluefire: karp like kharb
danbluefire: no is manea
danbluefire: indra is indrea
lotus_a2001: good
danbluefire: my family name is toma
lotus_a2001: false
danbluefire: dont know if is conected whit tomar
danbluefire: what is false
lotus_a2001: ur mother's family name?
danbluefire: dahya is the name of the getae from the transilvania
danbluefire: is capra
lotus_a2001: how many dahyas r thr now?
danbluefire: carpa
danbluefire: the name dahya was for all ,name after the dominant tribe
danbluefire: was 2000 years ago
lotus_a2001: plz name another tribes of getae
danbluefire: sukoy , costoboces,sargatii,karpii,teuriscii
danbluefire: buri davensi
lotus_a2001: at present ?
danbluefire: agatirsii
danbluefire: i told you all this are lost
danbluefire: only in india is preserv this tings
danbluefire: dagae
lotus_a2001: at presrnt in ur cntry
danbluefire: sacii
lotus_a2001: name a few tribes of getae/gets/getz
danbluefire: i told you
danbluefire: all this are lost
danbluefire: only india preserve this custom
lotus_a2001: k
danbluefire: brahmans the same hv
lotus_a2001: but in ur cntry how u know that u'r jats/getz?
danbluefire: and omly some scothish preserve this today
danbluefire: in europe
danbluefire: i know for my self i make some research
danbluefire: but all romanians was getae
lotus_a2001: wht r their modern surnames 2day?
lotus_a2001: usually?
danbluefire: majority are christians,latin greek,iven french and english
danbluefire: names
lotus_a2001: thats different
danbluefire: most of the old name was abandoned in 1300
lotus_a2001: religion is different frm ur ancestral surnames
danbluefire: and latin names was bring by cristians
danbluefire: yes every body must wear a christian name
lotus_a2001: thats 1st name only like fr me "sudhir"
lotus_a2001: but i wanted the last name
danbluefire: when ur baptize as christian is given you a christian name
danbluefire: very few old surnames was preserve
danbluefire: i didnt recognise old surnames
lotus_a2001: last name like v've "tewatia/teotia/teuton/teoti, etc"
lotus_a2001: like wht is "norman" that u write
lotus_a2001: how many normans r thr?
danbluefire: how is gotra determine in india ?from mother lineage or from father lineage?
lotus_a2001: father
danbluefire: not mother?
lotus_a2001: no
danbluefire: here is from father side
danbluefire: in fact i have 2 surnames
danbluefire: toma and stancu
lotus_a2001: whts ur mother side then?
danbluefire: norman is a nick name is not my real name ,in my area is usual to have nick name,
lotus_a2001: oh
danbluefire: im from oltenia county
danbluefire: my mother side is carpa
danbluefire: surname
lotus_a2001: can a carpa marry a carpa?
danbluefire: no
lotus_a2001: why?
danbluefire: my father side is toma
lotus_a2001: can a toma marry a toma?
danbluefire: cos you cant merry whit one of the same family
danbluefire: no
lotus_a2001: ur grandfather was also toma?
danbluefire: yes
lotus_a2001: n ur grandmother?
danbluefire: my grand mother i dont know
danbluefire: nobody tell me
danbluefire: and i have no paper acts from they
lotus_a2001: can she be also toma?
danbluefire: no
lotus_a2001: y?
danbluefire: cos u cant merry whit one of the same family
lotus_a2001: good
lotus_a2001: ur maternal grandmother surname?
danbluefire: costea
lotus_a2001: carpa n costea same?
danbluefire: no
danbluefire: my mom grandmother is costea
danbluefire: my father grandmother is carpa

 

[sktewatia]

cntd

danbluefire: my mom grandmother is costea
danbluefire: my father grandmother is carpa
danbluefire: who is fast talker ethnic group in your area?
lotus_a2001: fast talker?
danbluefire: i hear some punjabis talk very fast
lotus_a2001: ys they do
danbluefire: yes
danbluefire: jats do?
lotus_a2001: most of the punjabis r jats only
danbluefire: so jats are fast talkers
lotus_a2001: ys almost all
danbluefire: you r not a fast talker
lotus_a2001: yes
lotus_a2001: my language is braj n not punjabi
lotus_a2001: the same as that of krishna
danbluefire: braj is slower
lotus_a2001: frm muttra (mathura)
danbluefire: we have a river name krish
danbluefire: and a county name krishana
danbluefire: thats mean blakin old romanian
danbluefire: black
danbluefire: from were my grandfather came ,ppl there are very fast talkers ;they speak so fast that i dont understend them
lotus_a2001: even in indian languages krishna means black
danbluefire: we have a county name bihor
lotus_a2001: like bihar?
danbluefire: a county name harghita
lotus_a2001: good
lotus_a2001: whr's that?
danbluefire: yes
danbluefire: magyars say bihar,romanians say bihor
danbluefire: in transilvania
lotus_a2001: name a few more
danbluefire: gorj
danbluefire: hargita
danbluefire: argesh
danbluefire: maramu
danbluefire: muresh
danbluefire: i dont know all
lotus_a2001: plz tell more
danbluefire: are 40 counties
lotus_a2001: plz send me the list
danbluefire: i dont know more then this
danbluefire: i gona try
lotus_a2001: how cd u know that romania is origin of jats?
danbluefire: well some historians say that
danbluefire: are some patriots that belive that romania is the original land of sumerians ,aryans and romans
danbluefire: they belive that all culture and tehnic came from here
danbluefire: i dont belive their theory
danbluefire: i have my own theories
danbluefire: i m not agree iven whit your theory
danbluefire: hope ur not upset
lotus_a2001: not at all
lotus_a2001: i love logics
danbluefire: we have diferent opinions
lotus_a2001: no prob v may have
lotus_a2001: but i'm interseted in jats n meeting them
danbluefire: some romanian historians say that getae (the old name of romanians) was extent to the east were form massa getae(sarmatians)
danbluefire: is posible that jats to be just a warior nation that asimilate many other nations
danbluefire: iven the jats from india to be original indians mixed whit jats
lotus_a2001: plz name a few historians of ur cntry who believe so
danbluefire: forming jats from punjab and haryana
danbluefire: napoleon savescu
danbluefire: vasile parvan
danbluefire: densusianu
danbluefire: iorga
lotus_a2001: n e one these alive 2day 2 discuss with me?
lotus_a2001: can i see ur history text books please?
danbluefire: hahaha
danbluefire: only savescu is alive
danbluefire: and hes in america
danbluefire: he belive that vedas came from romania
lotus_a2001: great
lotus_a2001: can i have chat with him
lotus_a2001: ?
danbluefire: some are on net
danbluefire: but majority are not in english
danbluefire: we are not the ancestors of rome
danbluefire: is one site on the net
danbluefire: and have some articols in english
lotus_a2001: good
lotus_a2001: mrsavescu knows english?
danbluefire: i dont know him personaly
danbluefire: i dont know iven if he want to speak whit soembody
lotus_a2001: good
danbluefire: i know only his books
lotus_a2001: but its interesting
lotus_a2001: which books
lotus_a2001: ?
danbluefire: yes
danbluefire: very well
danbluefire: you are historian?
lotus_a2001: r thr on net?
lotus_a2001: yes
danbluefire: i told you we are not descendent from rome
danbluefire: dont know
lotus_a2001: more then ascientist i'm historian
danbluefire: i look now
lotus_a2001: i know u'r not frm rome
lotus_a2001: ys i know u'r frm getu dacia
danbluefire: yes
lotus_a2001: plz try my name on net or thru n e search engine "s k tewatia"
danbluefire: yes
danbluefire: you can find on wikipedia easy
danbluefire: dacian thracian getae
lotus_a2001: ur email plz?
danbluefire: i dont find in english
danbluefire: give accept
danbluefire: my email is danbluefire@yahoo.com
danbluefire: i send you a photo
danbluefire: pls give accept
lotus_a2001: sure plz do
danbluefire: i already send
danbluefire: Results 1 - 10 of about 281 for s k tewatia. (0.80 seconds)
Discussion on ‘Improved square root of t Method to Evaluate ...
Discussion on ‘Improved square root of t Method to Evaluate Consolidation Test
Results’ by SK Tewatia and K. Venkatachalam (Title Edited) Prakash K ...
www.astm.org/JOURNALS/GEOTECH/PAGES/216.htm - 26k - Supplemental Result - Cached - Similar pages
ASTM Geotechnical Testing Journal Vol.21, No.2, 1998
... Discussion on ‘Improved square root of t Method to Evaluate Consolidation Test Results’
by SK Tewatia and K. Venkatachalam (Title Edited) Prakash K 153-154. ...
www.astm.org/JOURNALS/GEOTECH/TOC01/2121998.htm - 4k - Supplemental Result - Cached - Similar pages
[ More results from www.astm.org ]
Japanese Geotechnical Society
SK Tewatia ...22
danbluefire: are many site s whit tewatia
danbluefire: you see the picture?
danbluefire: is whit a sikh boy
lotus_a2001: ys
danbluefire: and king decebal
danbluefire: the tipe of turban
danbluefire: and the hat
danbluefire: of the king
danbluefire: decebal mean daka king
lotus_a2001: good
danbluefire: he live 1900 years ago
lotus_a2001: modern daca jats of india
danbluefire: same model of hat
danbluefire: do you see this tipe of turban?
lotus_a2001: ys
lotus_a2001: they sikhs
lotus_a2001: 20% of jats are sikhs
danbluefire: whittuft of hair
danbluefire: tuft
danbluefire: like buddha
danbluefire: this custom stil exist in india
danbluefire: but in romania was disapierd in 1900
lotus_a2001: this started just 400 yrs back recently but initially all jats used 2 keep long hair like this
lotus_a2001: in ramayana n mahabharta n late in china they all used 2 keep long hair
danbluefire: simple getae was name by romans comati
danbluefire: ppl whit long hair
lotus_a2001: ys true
danbluefire: but their noblile wear this tuft of hair
danbluefire: what you mean started 400 years ago?
danbluefire: turban wearing? or tuft turban?
lotus_a2001: sikh religion in india started just about4-5 hundred yrs ago
danbluefire: yes
danbluefire: but the custom posible be longer?
lotus_a2001: ys jats did use 2 wear this turban n kept long hair in india in ancient time
lotus_a2001: even chinese practiced it
danbluefire: iven samurai
danbluefire: is belive that samurai are jats mixed whit japanese
lotus_a2001: thats true
danbluefire: but i dont know what year they came in japan
lotus_a2001: but who's told u that?
danbluefire: i hear from savescu book
lotus_a2001: good he has written
danbluefire: i dont understend why he have no sites in english
lotus_a2001: even shaolin ninza
lotus_a2001: is indian jats art introduced in china from india
danbluefire: this is traditional dreesss in romania
danbluefire: yes i observ that
danbluefire: chinese art is very influencd by india
lotus_a2001: jats were the cause of construction of china wall
danbluefire: you must confuse them whit huns
danbluefire: was 2 tripes of huns
lotus_a2001: fr thousands of years
danbluefire: tipes
lotus_a2001: dnt u think huns were jats?
danbluefire: caucasian huns and mongol huns
danbluefire: only a part of them
danbluefire: so call white huns
lotus_a2001: i wrote about mongolia
lotus_a2001: its governor was khoja ohlan was jat who harassed taimur
danbluefire: didnt know that
lotus_a2001: he was called jatta
danbluefire: but are very few caucasians in mongolia today
danbluefire: all look very chinese
danbluefire: are from a diferent race
lotus_a2001: u know the ancient name of china?
lotus_a2001: "guttium"
danbluefire: han?
danbluefire: like guti
lotus_a2001: compare it with getae
danbluefire: from sumeriaN scripts
lotus_a2001: massa getae
danbluefire: i heard that gutians are first indo-europeans that apear in documents
lotus_a2001: ta-yuchie n siao-yuechi
lotus_a2001: great jats n small jats
danbluefire: this are saka
danbluefire: in west china
danbluefire: no?
danbluefire: why they were call massa?
danbluefire: great
danbluefire: ?
lotus_a2001: parallel 2 massagetae n sm small jats
lotus_a2001: chinese had these 2 branches of jats
lotus_a2001: ta means great
lotus_a2001: like mass means great
lotus_a2001: messa/mass/massive

 

[sktewatia]

contd

lotus_a2001: like mass means great
lotus_a2001: messa/mass/massive
lotus_a2001: means heavy jats
lotus_a2001: similarly chinese "ta" means heavy n great
danbluefire: in north of romania was exist mari daci(great daka)
lotus_a2001: u btr read kelvin also
danbluefire: yes masive
lotus_a2001: he describes 7700bc
lotus_a2001: see the branches of tien shan mountains
danbluefire: http://www.dacia.org/carpatho-danubian-space.html
danbluefire: http://www.dacia.org/articole/the-romanian.html
lotus_a2001: "Djeti, Djigit, Dzhigit etc."
danbluefire: chinese word are very dificult
lotus_a2001: parallel to gilgit mountains
danbluefire: to read
lotus_a2001: no, simply
danbluefire: is a mountan here gilau
lotus_a2001: getae are called yuechis there
lotus_a2001: kusana n saka were one of the 5 branches of these yuechis
danbluefire: only one?
danbluefire: i belive that saka was a general name of jats
lotus_a2001: similarly kelvin mentions that these
lotus_a2001: ys saka is a branch of jats in india as aryan is a branch of jat in india
danbluefire: http://www.dacia.org/lundius/Summary/summary.html
lotus_a2001: they r called here saka/sakha/sakka/sikka/sikha/sikhawar/sikarwar etc
danbluefire: sika was the curved sword
danbluefire: many tribes was named after they favorite weapon
lotus_a2001: n shikha means hair/long-hair/peak etc.
danbluefire: longobards =battle axe
danbluefire: frizi = spear
danbluefire: kika in romanian mean big hair
lotus_a2001: all jat surnames here mean long hair, peak, head, chief
danbluefire: i observ that they have names as enlighted ones, powerfull ones
danbluefire: costoboces=shining ones
lotus_a2001: fighter, king, tamer of the animals (pasupati, lord siva), agriculturist, war like, nomad, barbarian (means little known), barbaric means ruthless, most just
danbluefire: what mean kharb in hindi?
danbluefire: barbar doesnt mean out sider?
lotus_a2001: it means kharab (bad), billion, ..
lotus_a2001: like dacca, daca, daka, daku, means dacoit
lotus_a2001: 100 million
lotus_a2001: its just one of the meanings
lotus_a2001: otherwise all meant same as jats
danbluefire: http://www.dacii.ro/modules.php?name=News&file=print&sid=8303
lotus_a2001: jata means hair in india
lotus_a2001: jut/gut mean a federation in india
lotus_a2001: rather bush
danbluefire: i give some net links what i find abt savescu
danbluefire: the blue ones
danbluefire: thats all i find
lotus_a2001: good thanks
lotus_a2001: one theory in india says that jats were born from the jata (hair) of lord siva
danbluefire: varta= land
lotus_a2001: good, arya varta means arya land in india
danbluefire: the qwestion is was hair name after jata or jata was name after hair???
danbluefire: vatra in romanian mean land
danbluefire: aum = brahman
danbluefire: om =brahman
lotus_a2001: barhman u mean priest?
danbluefire: no
danbluefire: the universal man
danbluefire: the supreme god
lotus_a2001: very nice
danbluefire: om is the sacred silabe
danbluefire: om in romanian mean man
danbluefire: in sanskrite have no meaning
danbluefire: that was an argument use by savascu that veda came from carpathian mountains
lotus_a2001: but aryan is mentioned only 36 times in rigveda
lotus_a2001: jats r more predominant thr
danbluefire: yes
danbluefire: same i say
danbluefire: shiva was name here dionisos
danbluefire: or zal moxes
danbluefire: the old god
danbluefire: or ruda
lotus_a2001: rudra or ruda?
danbluefire: ruda
lotus_a2001: rudra?
danbluefire: the rain god
danbluefire: in romanian was name ruda
danbluefire: and in indian rudra
lotus_a2001: rudra or ruda?????
danbluefire: oh
lotus_a2001: good
lotus_a2001: u seem 2 b right
lotus_a2001: it means a killer god
danbluefire: but it was also the solar god
lotus_a2001: who make other weep
danbluefire: jats in india have a solar god?
lotus_a2001: ys
lotus_a2001: sun
danbluefire: i observ that in many areas was 2 dominant gods
danbluefire: rain god-shiva and sun god visnu
lotus_a2001: the concept of trimurthi was introduced in scandinavia by jutes/jats
danbluefire: posible
lotus_a2001: tri murthy means 3 gods
danbluefire: yes
danbluefire: to getae was zalmoxis,gebeleisis and bendis
lotus_a2001: no rain god in veda is indra he is called god of gods
danbluefire: to thracian was dyonisos,zblelsurdos,bendis
lotus_a2001: "jatau jatan" the jat of jats
danbluefire: shiva=indra
danbluefire: the king of kings
danbluefire: that a door
lotus_a2001: wht u feel is the roigin of jats?
danbluefire: origin
danbluefire: hmm
danbluefire: dificult
lotus_a2001: whether its spontaneous or gradual evolution?
danbluefire: if it was spontanous then is a miracol
lotus_a2001: let it be n e where
danbluefire: maybe was a branche that was split from the human kind
danbluefire: from a comon origin some become japanese ,some americans, some jats
danbluefire: what you belive
danbluefire: jats seem to be conected whit iranian branch
lotus_a2001: i feel it was a social system devised by some great social scientist
danbluefire: who was this scientist
lotus_a2001: which was so successful that till 10000yrs they remained the rulers of the world
lotus_a2001: n till 2day dominate in one or some other form in the world
danbluefire: my father belive that some alliens made diferent rases
danbluefire: and also made getae
danbluefire: 10000 years is not to much?
danbluefire: my father belive in ufo theory
danbluefire: i dont
lotus_a2001: u mean teoti-huaccann, the mayan civilization?
danbluefire: ar eyou there?
lotus_a2001: ys
danbluefire: i heard that some jats was mixed whit amewricans indians
lotus_a2001: kaphart kelvin mentions that after crossing tien mountains getae got divided in five branchaes
lotus_a2001: one of them dahiya
lotus_a2001: n says that dahiya got extinct about 5000 yrs back with 2 other branches
danbluefire: extinct?
danbluefire: why?
lotus_a2001: he's not knowing that dahiya exist till 2day
danbluefire: i hear abt a historian name krishan dahya
lotus_a2001: i dnt know him
danbluefire: he study abt history of jats
lotus_a2001: he is perhaps "b s dahiya"
danbluefire: b s?
lotus_a2001: i've written a few articles of history with him
lotus_a2001: he was income tax commissioner
danbluefire: how was his full name?
lotus_a2001: bhim singh dahiya
lotus_a2001: i'll float his books on jat land.com soon
lotus_a2001: full books
danbluefire: great
danbluefire: just wait
danbluefire: to see
danbluefire: krishan is a jat name?
lotus_a2001: ys
danbluefire: or a non indian name
danbluefire: krishan was a lider of a rebelion against injust nobile in 1785
lotus_a2001: may be
danbluefire: is a romanian name
danbluefire: hope you gona whach that links
lotus_a2001: may be
danbluefire: are not the best links but that i find
lotus_a2001: dayaeni/dahi
lotus_a2001: dahae
danbluefire: why he belive that dahya didnt exist?
lotus_a2001: dahia
lotus_a2001: daghe
danbluefire: daghestan
lotus_a2001: ud-dehik?
danbluefire: daghe=knife
danbluefire: what is ud dehik
danbluefire: what is mean?
lotus_a2001: puranic name
lotus_a2001: kephart was not knowing the modern jats fully
danbluefire: ud=wett?
danbluefire: wead
danbluefire: wead
danbluefire: of water?
danbluefire: i got to go
lotus_a2001: k
danbluefire: my brother need to use the computer
lotus_a2001: i'll let u know more interseting facts of jats 2morrow?
danbluefire: i dont know if im gona be on computer
danbluefire: but can put off line mesages
lotus_a2001: can u bring this cnvrsation on jatland.com?
danbluefire: you want to skare or jats on jatland)
danbluefire: especialy sampuran singh
danbluefire: all
lotus_a2001: no, jats never get scared
danbluefire: how can i bring this conversation on jatland?
danbluefire: i dont know how
lotus_a2001: store n copy it smwhere n paste it on sm thread over there
danbluefire: ok
lotus_a2001: well thnx
danbluefire: but they not gona let me to put on jatland
lotus_a2001: hope i'll find smthing fruitful frm ur discussion
danbluefire: is a site for jat hindu only
lotus_a2001: i'll try 2 speak 2 savescu also
lotus_a2001: no its fr all jats
lotus_a2001: whether hindu, muslim, sikh, cristien etc.
danbluefire: ok
danbluefire: i go now
danbluefire: see yaa
danbluefire: :-h
lotus_a2001: take care

 

[sampuran]

To sum up

Tewatia Bhai saheb, Yes, Jats don’t get scared! (cant guarantee the same about Natwar Singh & co) The unyielding and vigorous debate shows it all.

<FONT face="Times New Roman">Ravi Bhai, Chamar angle got highlighted because Kharab was offended that the example of kataria chamars was included along with some others. Why make a fuss about it when we don’t recognize the caste system ? And who knows many Schiellers in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com /><st1:country-region>Germany</st1:country-region> may be doing even more menial jobs to eke out a living. Are we going to exclude them form Jat lineage because of the nature of their job ? </FONT></FONT></P><P><FONT face=That Jats are much more than a caste, is what I have also been suggesting, though in a roundabout way. My gut feeling (no evidence) is that most groups having similar historical traditions and sirnames anywhere in the sub-continent (at least) are also Jats.
<O</O
Kharab bhai, Lets not swing to extremities. I NEVER said stop looking outside Indian borders.
Integration is the duty of all. But along the lines of my post ‘Do we Jats have it in us’, in the current affairs section, I would say, one group in <st1:country-region><ST1India></st1:country-region> that is capable of accomplishing national integration, are the Jats.
We can decide whether we sit back due to the indifference/wrong attitude of others or give tit for tat OR practice ‘Neki kar dariya mein dal’ in the larger interests of the coming generations. Todne wale to waise hi bahut hein!
Pl ask Kalkhande bhai sahib how many times I have been requesting him to collate all these discoveries. They are very vital. Do you still think I don’t realize the importance or the necessity of your efforts ?

Bhatthi mein tapne se hi sona par chamak aati hai. One positive effect of the criticism is that we are looking beyond similarity in sirnames/gotras. Burdakji has suggested comparative study of mythology. I guess socio cultural memories are better evidence than similarity of names. Let me frankly caution, more would be required.

 

[sktewatia]

Scandinavians are nordics branch of Aryans and Jats are their ancestors

Thanks Sampurn ji.

Burdakji, in teh above discussion two vital points have come up regarding scandinavian connection of jats. First of all I'd like to point out that Col. Tod has written that concept of Indian Trimurthy was introduced in scandinavia by Jats. Thor, Odin n ...

However, my first source is Kephart Calvin "in the makers of civilizations and races" I read this book about 25 yrs back but still recall that he starts about 10000 yrs back from Tien mountains and ultimately concludes that "These getae/goth/gets/jutes.. became the acestors of the Nordic Branch of Aryans"

Second is discussion of Siva with Parvati which says "That these Jats are the most powerful people on earth. They are born from the daughters of Daksha Prajapati. Among all the ksatriyas they were the first rulers of the earth. Their extremely astonishing past destroys the false pride of brahmanas and devas. Thats why puranas have kept their history secret."
Its contained in Dev Samhita.

Daksha prajapati had three daughters; Diti, Aditi and Danu. Who were born from diti were called Daityas or Assurs (of Assyria or Indian assur, modern Jatasara jats who write Asra only). From Aditi there were Adityas wor called Deo also (modern Deol jat; Dharmendra). Danu's lineage was called Danavs (of indian mythology) and modern Danes or Scandinavians. They look like Danavs. Till today in the world average height of Scandinavians is tallest.


Incidentally Dev Samhita also hints that Jats if so powerful and number 1 in the world for creating the history then why Indian historical sources are silent or negative about them. Why Indian historical sources do not mention Porus; all his information that v collect is from greek sources only. I've also mentioned Chakwa Ben in earlier replies.

I'd like to mention that while Jats are mentioned they were never noticed by Indian historians deliberately. One is from Sunda inscription of Sinda chief Chavunda, which says that "just as Amravati looked ever beautiful with Indra, or Ayodhya with the descendents of Raghu, Mathura with Govinda, Ujjayni with Gutta, and Hastinapur with son of Marut (Bhima); so also Erambarapura attained gracefulness with Sinda Chief Chavunda". Now all the references are well understood, but no ne has explained who were or was the Gutta (or Guttan) through whom the city of Ujjayani was so known.

Almost all the clan names of Allahabad pillar inscriprtion of Samudragupta are jat clans like Kharpari (Kharab jats), Prar-joon (Brar n Joon) etc. but indian historians passed them by.

All v study about Jats in History is from Auranzeb time only as if the most important racial element from Indus in west to Ganges n Chambal in east were born overnight got collected together and became the owners of this most fertile land in the world suddenly just one fine morning.

 

[sktewatia]

Tien Shan Mountains

If u google this word, u find the names of its branches as "Djeti, Djigit, Dzhigit, etc." seems 2 b related 2 jats like gilgit the gil jats. here git n djeti are variations of jat only.

 

[lrburdak]

Scandinavian mythology

Norse or Scandinavian mythology comprises the pre-Christian religion, beliefs and legends of the Scandinavian people, including those who settled on Iceland, where the written sources for Norse mythology were assembled. It is the best-known version of the older common Germanic mythology, which also includes the closely related Anglo-Saxon mythology. Germanic mythology, in its turn, had evolved from an earlier Indo-European mythology.
In Scandinavian folklore, these beliefs held on the longest, and in rural areas some traditions have been maintained until today.

Most of this mythology was passed down orally, and much of it has been lost. However, some of it was captured and recorded by Christian scholars, particularly in the Eddas and the Heimskringla by Snorri Sturluson, who believed that pre-Christian deities were men and women rather than devils. Additionally, there are hundreds of place names in Scandinavia named after the gods.

There are three "clans" of deities, the Æsir, the Vanir, and the Iotnar. The distinction between Æsir and Vanir is relative, for the two are said to have made peace, exchanged hostages, intermarried and reigned together after a prolonged war, which the Æsir had finally won. Some gods belong in both camps. Some scholars have speculated that this tale symbolized the way the gods of invading Indo-European tribes supplanted older nature-deities of the aboriginal peoples, although it should be firmly noted that this is conjecture.

The Æsir and the Vanir are generally enemies with the Iotnar (singular Iotunn or Jotuns; Old English Eotenas or Entas). They are comparable to the Titans and Gigantes of Greek mythology and generally translated as "giants", although "trolls" and "demons" have been suggested as suitable alternatives. However, the Æsir are descendants of Iotnar and both Æsir and Vanir intermarry with them. Some of the giants are mentioned by name in the Eddas, and they seem to be representations of natural forces.
The beginning

In the beginning there was the world of ice Niflheim, and the world of fire Muspelheim, and between them was the Ginnungagap, a "grinning (or yawning) gap," in which nothing lived. In Ginnungagap, the fire and the ice met, and the fire of Muspelheim licked the ice shaping a primordial giant Ymir and a giant cow, Auðumbla whose milk fed Ymir. The cow licked the ice, creating the first god, Búri, who was the father of Borr, in turn the father of the first Æsir, Odin, and his brothers Vili and Ve. Ymir was a hermaphrodite and alone procreated the race of giants. Then Borr's sons; Odin, Vili, and Ve; slaughtered Ymir and, from his body, created the world.

Búri was the first god in Norse mythology. He was the father of Borr and grandfather of Odin. He was formed by the cow Auðumbla licking the salty ice of Ginnungagap. The only extant source of this myth is Snorri Sturluson's Prose Edda.
The meaning of either Búri or Buri is not known. The first could be related to búr meaning "storage room" and the second could be related to burr meaning "son".
In any case the form Buri is often used in an ASCII context or as an anglicization of Búri. In the mainland Scandinavian languages Bure is used as a familiar form.
Borr or Burr (sometimes anglicized Bor) was the son of Búri and the father of Odin in Norse mythology. He is mentioned in the Gylfaginning part of Snorri Sturluson's Prose Edda.
Æsir
In Old Norse, the Æsir (singular Áss, feminine Ásynja, feminine plural Ásynjur, Anglo-Saxon Ós, from Proto-Germanic *Ansuz) are the principal gods of the pantheon of Norse mythology. They include many of the major figures, such as Odin, Frigg, Thor, Baldr and Tyr. A second clan of gods, the Vanir, is also mentioned in the Norse mythos: the god Njord and his children, Freyr and Freyja, are the most prominent Vanir gods who join the Æsir as hostages after a war between Æsir and Vanir. The Vanir appear to have mainly been connected with cultivation and fertility, the Æsir with power and war.
Etymology
The word áss, Proto-Germanic *ansuz is believed to be derived from Proto-Indo-European *ansu- 'breath, god' related to Sanskrit asura and Avestan ahura with the same meaning; though in Sanskrit asura came to mean 'demon'. The cognate Old English form to áss is os 'god, deity', as in the still-current surname Osgood, or the first names Oswin, Osbert, Oswald, Osborn, Osmund (but Oscar is an unrelated Gaelic name).
Snorri Sturluson's Euhemeristic in the 13th century connected the Æsir with Asia, an explanation repeated as late as in the 17th century by Schefferus, who held that Æsir referred to "Asian emperors", that is, a shamanistic hereditary leadership, emanating out from the Eurasian steppes into Europe in ancient times

Ása is the genitive form of Áss. The form appears as a prefix to indicate membership in the Æsir in "Ása-Þórr", and also in the compound Ásatrú, a sect of Germanic Neopaganism.
Vanir is the name of one of the two groups of gods in Norse mythology, the other and more well known being the Æsir. The name is perhaps from the PIE root wen "to strive, win", cognate to Venus (compare Vanadis), Wynn (Proto-Germanic *Wanizaz).
Reference
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norse mythology

 

[ravichaudhary]

Thanks Sampurn ji.

One is from Sunda inscription of Sinda chief Chavunda, which says that "just as Amravati looked ever beautiful with Indra, or Ayodhya with the descendents of Raghu, Mathura with Govinda, Ujjayni with Gutta, and Hastinapur with son of Marut (Bhima); so also Erambarapura attained gracefulness with Sinda Chief Chavunda". Now all the references are well understood, but no ne has explained who were or was the Gutta (or Guttan) through whom the city of Ujjayani was so known.

What is the full reference for this?

Do you have a copy of the original insciprtion/text?.

If so please load it or send me a copy

 

[betaal]

Intellectual discussion goes on and on. Surely, we will find our lost ancestors some day through this thread. If not, we will find a way even if unreasonable to attach ourselves to our powerful,rich, good looking, white european brothers. Don't give up hope. Please continue.

 

[sktewatia]

Ravi Chaudhary ji,

when I quote smthing in a natural manner assume its true n internet knows it. like it knows me "s k tewatia". by n e search engine. plz try urself n develop it further instead of testing ur own/or my knowledge of history.

n e way here is the answere. plz go thru it carefully because i'm going 2 quote next few more posts.

B.K.No.147 of 1928-29)​

HOSUR, BADAMI TALUK, BIJAPUR DISTRICT
On a slab set up in the Siddhesvara temple, two miles from the village
Chavunda, 1155 A.D.<O> </O>
This is dated Saka 1076, Yuva, Pushya su. 14, Monday, Uttarayana-samkranti. If su. is a a mistake for ba. and Monday for Sunday, then the details correspond to 1155 A.D., December 25. The Saka year wa current.
It records a gift of land to the god Mallikarjuna in Kapilasrama by Gayadharanayaka, Pergade Somanatha-nayaka, karana Rayarasa and others with the approval of the Sinda queen Lakshmidevi, wife of Chavunda. Lakshmidevi is said to have been administrating the area granted by her husband.

No.237​

(B.K.No.28 of 1927-28)
UNACHGERI, RON TALUK, DHARWAR DISTRICT
On a stone set up near the public well
Chavunda, 1165 A.D.<O> </O>
Thisis dated the 10<SUP>th</SUP> regnal year of the king, Parthiva, Pushya su. 13, Sunday, Uttarayana-samkramana. The date is not regular. The year Parthiva falling, the reign of Sinda Chavunda corresponds to 1165 A.D. In that year Pushya su. 18* occurred on December 17, the weekday being Friday. The said Samkraman however, occurred on December 25, Saturday.
It records a gift by Heggade Isvarayya, of the Hejjunka and Biravana taxes, under the instructions of Chavundarasa. The latter part of the record is damaged.

No.238​

(B.K.No.4 of 1927-28)
HIREMANNUR, RON TALUK, DHARWAR DISTRICT
On a stone built into the wall of Hanuman temple
Chavunda, 1169 A.D.<O> </O>
This is dated Saka 1091, Virodhi, Pushya su. 5, Thursday, Uttarayana-samkranmana, corresponding to 1169 A.D., December 25.
It records the renewal of a gift of land for the maintenance of a tank called Hiriyakere of Hiriya-Maniyur, at the request of Dasabova, the Adishthayaka of Jinasale, by Mahamandalesvara Chavunda of the Sinda family who was governing Kisukadu Seventy, Bagadage Seventy; Nareyamgal Twelve and Kelavadi Three Hundred. The earlier part gives a genealogical account of the donor and his exploits.

No.241​

(B.K.No. 205 of 1926-27)
NIDGUNDI, RON TALUK, DHARWAR DISTRICT
On a stone inside the Basavanna temple
Vira-Bijjala, 1174 A.D.<O> </O>
This is dated Saka 1096, Jaya, Marggasira-paurnami, Monday, lunar eclipse, corresponding to 1174 A.D., November 10. The weekday, however, was Sunday. The Sinda chief Vira-Bijjala stated to have been ruling at this time.
It records a gift of money made into the hands of the Mahajanas in favour of the god Madhavesvara whose temple was constructed at Nidugundi by the donor Karagavalaradhisthayaka Mahadeva-dandanayaka, who is described as the right hand of Mahamandalesvara Vira-Bijjala. The earlier part of the inscription contains a genealogical account of the Sinda chief and a description of the Four Hundred Mahajanas of the Nidugundi. The epigraph is partly damaged.

Vira Bijjala and Vira Vikrama​

No.242
(B.K.No. 65 of 1928-29)
SULIBHAVI, HUNGUND TALUK, BIJAPUR DISTRICT
On a stone pillar in the Tulajabhavani temple
Vira-Bijjala and Vira-vikrama, 1186-87 A.D.<O> </O>
This is dated the cyclic year Visvavasu, Magha-amavasye, Monday. The said year, falling in the regime of Vira-Vikrama of the Sinda family, corresponds to 1185-86 A.D. The equivalent of the date would be 1186 A.D., February 21, the weekday being Friday. If, however, Visvavasu is a mistake for Parabhava, the details correspond to 1187 A.D., February 9, Monday, f.d.t. 31. This seems to be the intended date.
It records a gift of land for maintaining the sluice of a tank by Mahamadalesvara Sinda Vira-Bijjala and Vira-Vikramaditya. In the latter part of the record which is damaged is registered another gift by two toll officers of Kisukadu Nadu.

 

[ravichaudhary]

Please always put the URL for the information if it is on internet.

For research it is very useful.

This not a reflection on you.


What is the URL ?

Ravi Chaudhary

 

[parda]

bhai link dee do. dhanyawaad.

 

[sktewatia]

I've floated another thread

Thnx ravi ji u'r right.


I've floated another thread
"Roots of Jats in the World"
All Jats r invited 2 c plz n comment.

 

[lrburdak]

Jat is origin of Ujjain

SK Tewatiaji mentioned about Ujjain

"I'd like to mention that while Jats are mentioned they were never noticed by Indian historians deliberately. One is from Sunda inscription of Sinda chief Chavunda, which says that "just as Amravati looked ever beautiful with Indra, or Ayodhya with the descendents of Raghu, Mathura with Govinda, Ujjayni with Gutta, and Hastinapur with son of Marut (Bhima); so also Erambarapura attained gracefulness with Sinda Chief Chavunda". Now all the references are well understood, but no one has explained who were or was the Gutta (or Guttan) through whom the city of Ujjayani was so known."
Ujjain on Wikipedia

The earliest references to the city, as Ujjaini, are from the time of the Buddha, when it was the capital of the kingdom of Avanti.
Ujjain was the traditional capital of King Chandragupta II, also known as Vikramaditya, at whose court the nine poets known as the navaratna (nine jewels) of Sanskrit literature are said to have flourished. It marks the first meridian of longitude in Hindu geography. It is also reputed to have been the residence of Ashoka (who subsequently became the emperor), when he was the viceroy of the western provinces of the Maurya empire. It was invaded by the Delhi Sultanate lead by Iltutmish in 1235 causing widespread destruction and systematic desecration of temples.(Ref-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ujjain )
My suggestions
1. It appears to prove the theory given by Thakur Deshraj, in Jat History, that Jats moved from Malwa to Scandinavia and founded Jutland. When Jats moved their Sangh got recognized with different names in different parts of the world as explained above in this thread.
2. Under certain conditions beyond their control they migrated from Scandinavia back to Malwa region, their homeland, after hundreds of years. When they came back they were known as Gutta or Guttan, as mentioned in Sunda inscription by Tewatiaji. Gutta later on got changed to Gupta.
3. Jat may be the origin of Ujjain explained as under:
Jat .....Jatt (As in Punjab)
Jatt .....Jutt
Jutt ..... Gutt(J.....G)
Gutt ....... Guttan (As mentioned in Sunda inscription)
Guttan ........Gutian
Gutian..........Gutyan
Gutyan.........Gutjan (Y....J)
Gutjan..........Utjan (G’silent as Gunnis ,19, in Malwa becomes Unnis in Hindi)
Ut+Jan.........àUjjan (meaning noble people)
Ujjan .........Ujjain
****************************
Members may comment on above suggestions.