"Should the Govt amend HMA to ban 'same-gotra' marriage"?

[sunillathwal]

..... Why dont the ashamed ones end their own life to escape the 'shame' instead, I wonder!

Off-topic but not irrelevant:
I know- at least one case in 2008- where a father committed suicide apparently because her daughter was marrying someone he did not approve (case of inter-caste marriage!!).

Too bad that girl also committed suicide few months later. little sad story!!

 

[akshaymalik84]

Killing for Country is justified.
Killing in self defence is justified.
Mercy killing is justified.

Does HONOR have any value for JATS? If yes, then what should be done to protect it?

What is Honor? For me, your word is your honor. If you make a commitment it is your responsibility to live up to your word. If you don't then this is a reflection on your character and ultimately on your honor as a person of integrity. If i teach my children about our history,culture and honor then its my responsibility that they follow it. IF not
Is killing a option? Who knows?

 

[poonam]

Hahahah..this reminded me of Hitler and the way they used to identify jews by their facial/cranial features! He must be smiling in his grave. He wasnt wrong either then, poor guy just hated jews, considered 'em filthy rats and was only killing 'em!

This is, perhaps, genome purification drive taken in hand by social scientists and genetic engineers who are busy recreating the 'pure race gene' which was destroyed by Churchill and the Allies during Second World War. Haryana's State of the Art social laboratories have been found to be the best for this project. Trespassers will be prosecuted and the suspected outsiders may be asked to produce a DNA Certificate duly attested by the respective community leaders or their designated representatives on JL.

 

[poonam]

Sunil, I was speaking for myself and was also pretty much a sarcastic take. Thats what I would do if I were in their shoes, I mean as a parent and if killing someone would be the only option.
It doesnt mean that I dont feel their pain who do it. My heart goes out for the parents who kill themselves and as a daughter I would too have succumbed to the wishes of my folks in a situation (threatening to kill themselves) like that..Anyway..
But, if given a freedom, especailly social, as a parent (I think have now), I would never ever hurt my kids! Period!
Having said that, they better coin a new term for this extermination. There can be no honor in killing!!

Off-topic but not irrelevant:
I know- at least one case in 2008- where a father committed suicide apparently because her daughter was marrying someone he did not approve (case of inter-caste marriage!!).

Too bad that girl also committed suicide few months later. little sad story!!

 

[vijay]

If i teach my children about our history,culture and honor then its my responsibility that they follow it. IF not
Is killing a option? Who knows?

Oh yeah, you are the only perfect teacher to teach that. What if you are wrong somewhere ?

You can kill your kids because you think that they are not doing what you expect them to do ?

 

[akshaymalik84]

Oh yeah, you are the only perfect teacher to teach that. What if you are wrong somewhere ?

You can kill your kids because you think that they are not doing what you expect them to do ?

Oh! did i say, i will kill? Never thought of killing. Depends on the situation.

Ignoring is also a way of silent killing. Many kids kill their parents.

Is stopping one's breathing a Killing? or is it more than that?

 

[vijay]

Oh! did i say, i will kill? Never thought of killing. Depends on the situation.

Ignoring is also a way of silent killing. Many kids kill their parents.

Is stopping one's breathing a Killing? or is it more than that?

Yes, it is more than a simple activity. People call it a situation to hide their own weakness when there is no such situation. Options are always neglected due to the preferences.

Anyways, its nice to know that you never thought of killing.

 

[akshaymalik84]

Yes, it is more than a simple activity. People call it a situation to hide their own weakness when there is no such situation. Options are always neglected due to the preferences.

Anyways, its nice to know that you never thought of killing.

Perhaps I am weak and afraid to take harder path.

Yes, i neglected various options in my life for preferences. Almost every one had.

 

[kapdal]

Killing for Country is justified.
Killing in self defence is justified.
Mercy killing is justified.

Does HONOR have any value for JATS? If yes, then what should be done to protect it?

What is Honor? For me, your word is your honor. If you make a commitment it is your responsibility to live up to your word. If you don't then this is a reflection on your character and ultimately on your honor as a person of integrity. If i teach my children about our history,culture and honor then its my responsibility that they follow it. IF not
Is killing a option? Who knows?

Akshay, not sure how you jumped from killing for country, etc etc. to killing for honor. The connecting sentence used by you is- "Does HONOR have any value for JATS?"

Just because something has value doesn't mean all extreme options are available in order to achieve it. You know even ice cream has some value to me.

The logic gets even more weird. As far as I know, one's word is very different from one's believes. Word is what you give to someone, it is a promise. It is much different from saying "I believe in X and I will make sure my children follow X, if not I will kill them". That's obstinacy. Any amount of abstract philosophising doesn't justify that.

 

[spdeshwal]

Some people here are really sick. They can't think of anything but Jatnesss... Any other human beings seem to worthless to them and they use very freely very derogatory words for others.
Just be normal human beings and things will be much simpler..
I'll also be hopeful of a society that Devender mentioned. Full of Normal human beings.

Kusum ji

Every human being or even an entire social group/ community develops some specific and exclusive traits in their evolution that makes them behave in specific and exclusive manner. Some of the traits could of negative in nature. But, by and large jats are most democratic and tolerant society. When I say tolerant, I meant tolerant of other social groups who interact with them regularly. One of the most distinct traits of jats is normalcy and spontaneity in their behavior.

History is the proof my contention. Oldest democratic institutions and religious movements with no discriminative attitude towards any cast originated and flourished in Jat inhibited areas.

In the perspective of Indian cast and religious background, one can safely conclude that although exceptions are there but most Jats are very tolerant sensitive and respectful to people of other communities. Odd foul mouths can exist simultaneously but do not represent the community as a whole.

In relation to the current topic of discussion, I have already cast my vote and there was no second thought about that as every one knows and would agree that this is the most scientific tradition and must be adhered to by all means. Yes, legislative changes in the Hindu Marriage Act are the need of the hour and should be sported by all.


Cheers!

 

[spdeshwal]

Yes, it is more than a simple activity. People call it a situation to hide their own weakness when there is no such situation. Options are always neglected due to the preferences.

Anyways, its nice to know that you never thought of killing.

Real honor lies in Forgiveness!

I often wonder, whose honor we are talking about while discussing this so-called honor killing! Save the honor of whom? Is it the community, family and relative or the parents or the father and male members of the family!
In most cases the initiator of such a heinous crime are the male family members. I exclude mother for the strongest reason to be belied that no mother can be party to the killings of her own blood and flesh!
In the most cases, it is in self-defense or one can call, in the defense of the coward within. The coward (father or male members of the family) behind the mask who has influenced the rebellious streak in a child that has finally motivated a girl or boy to go against the social norms. The negative influence could be from mother or other female member of the family as well. In other words the single most motivating factor for this rebellious behavior could be the double standard, might have been prevalent in the family atmosphere at some point of time! I mean to the great extent, the behavioral change is caused by the incestuous and illegitimate relationship for the people, supposed to be the role models!
So my contention is to look beyond the normal picture. I mean look for the factors contributing to this rebellious streak in a child and follows in adolescence. That means, community as whole must also look for the reasons behind this kind of behavior and not only the final outcome

At last, I would say, “ Real honor Lies in the Forgiveness”!


Cheers!

 

[gaganjat]

anything for honor is justified.

either change the title of the thread to something like 'is killing same gotra couples justified ?" or it is justified.

Panchayats have been helping our community for a long long time by taking fair & quick decisions uske bina pata nahi kitna khoon-kharaba hota ur ghar kharab hote.

Indian media ka kaam hi sentiments bhadkana hai isi tarah unki dukaan chalti hai ( generally) ab agar Jat hi jato ki khilafat karenge to kaise kaam chalega.

'Gohana kaand' hua uska bhi media ne kya kya bola. Agar Jat bhi sab kuch change karke baki jaise ho ge to kis baat ke jat rah ge pher....u dont know where u heading if u keep on changing everything coz of what world is presenting about u...dont worry about presenting urself as a politically right community...once u r on tat level thats wen these people will put u down as a bag of Sh**t.

If u keep on doing this the day will come wen Jats have no identity no existence and we will be a confused community waiting for instructions from others 'wat they think is right'. we dont give a f***k we know what is good for us.

Whatever we do is right we have been doing it for a long time and kept our head high.

 

[gaganjat]

Deshwal bhaisaab ye to ghadi wali baat hui asli me har cheez ke liye forgive karan laag ge to mamla khatam samjo. punishment jaror honi chayie

Real honor lies in Forgiveness!

I often wonder, whose honor we are talking about while discussing this so-called honor killing! Save the honor of whom? Is it the community, family and relative or the parents or the father and male members of the family!
In most cases the initiator of such a heinous crime are the male family members. I exclude mother for the strongest reason to be belied that no mother can be party to the killings of her own blood and flesh!
In the most cases, it is in self-defense or one can call, in the defense of the coward within. The coward (father or male members of the family) behind the mask who has influenced the rebellious streak in a child that has finally motivated a girl or boy to go against the social norms. The negative influence could be from mother or other female member of the family as well. In other words the single most motivating factor for this rebellious behavior could be the double standard, might have been prevalent in the family atmosphere at some point of time! I mean to the great extent, the behavioral change is caused by the incestuous and illegitimate relationship for the people, supposed to be the role models!
So my contention is to look beyond the normal picture. I mean look for the factors contributing to this rebellious streak in a child and follows in adolescence. That means, community as whole must also look for the reasons behind this kind of behavior and not only the final outcome

At last, I would say, “ Real honor Lies in the Forgiveness”!


Cheers!

 

[singhvp]

The whole debate "Whether Honour killing is justified" is meaningless...killing can never be justified… Period. Do we think that if we get more “Ayes” than “Nays” against this poll, then honour killing should be made into a law?

Even State which has a right to take lives does so in "Rarest of Rare" cases, what to talk of lesser mortals like you and me. Honour killing can never be condoned. We have no right whatsoever to do so under whatever pretext.

But the larger question is: Honour killings do happen and it's nothing but societal pressure that induces this extreme step. Condemning honour killing does not conclude that people should take the customs for granted. Let the transgressors be subjected to lesser forms of punishment like social boycot etc, that itself is a big enough punishment. At the same time, as we progress, the society changes in manifestations and several dogmas erode with time, also several bad habits make their way. Let us preserve what is good & scientific (e.g.: avoidance of gotras to rule out inbreeding, age old ayurvedic healing methods, altruistic attitude of jats et al) and let us overcome what is bad (like honour killings, female feticide..).

Also, so called demagogues (our leaders irrespective of their political affiliations) have little to contribute in this social upheaval, its upto the mango people like us to take the step forward by educating one and all. Let us not behave like neo liberals for whom anything that is OLD is OUTDATED, BAD and anything that is NEW is MODERN and GOOD.
Why can’t we have a centrist approach (preserve what is good and humane, discard what is bad) and not oscillate between extreme lefts and rights?

I find your views very pragmatic but could not comprehend the last paragraph very well. How would you like the words 'left', 'right' and 'centrist', the connotations of sitting arrangements in Parliamentary parlance, signify our stance in the present context. Is the demand for a ban on marriage in the nearby village is leftist, rightist or centrist? Everything old is not necessarily outdated. At the same time everything old is not gold. The terms like "neo-liberals" or "neo-Nazis" are coined by us according to our conveniences. So far I have not seen any so-called "neo-liberal" advocating that we should discard everything old and adopt everything new. The terms old and new are too vague to be described in terms of customs. A healthy discussion among the community is essential to arrive at any logical conclusion with wide consensus. Views from each and every member of the Jat community has some relevance and deserve to be heard without branding such member with adjectives like 'neo-liberals' etc. and without putting extra words in his/her mouth like "anything that is OLD is OUTDATED, BAD and that is NEW is MODERN and GOOD". This kind of attributes convey a hidden message to discourage people to participate in the debate. If our ears are not accustomed to hear the dissenting noises, then it becomes difficult to express oneself freely and candidly. In such a scenario majority of people try not to earn the wrath of the hardliners and casually express in tune with the majority while hiding their real thoughts. If some people take a right to brand their dissenting fellow Jats as "neo-liberals", the same right can be exercised by the so called "neo-liberals" to brand the people across the road as "neo-Nazis" and the war of attrition will continue unabated.

 

[tomarhitesh23]

And if a jat marries a Brahmin, who is highest in varna system, what happens then?

No one is higher then Jats in any respect .. only a Jat can be higher then other jat

 

[tomarhitesh23]

in true terms Honour killing should be in case of Kasab/Afgal Guru etc.Gotra vivah should not be accepted. i heard in Andhra pardesh,a brother can marry to his sister daughter.thats is there parampara. i think in Haryana if i am right three gotra should be avoided mother/father/grandmother.

In jats four gotras are avoided self/mother's/ meternal & peternal grandmothers .

 

[tomarhitesh23]

Post has been deleted

 

[tomarhitesh23]

There is a lot of difference between saying something and actually doing it but i agree that there maybe many who can do it.

Every human have a devil inside oneself, people with strong will power can kill the devil but weaker can not. They hide their weakness behind this psudo bravery.

How come someone kill his own kid whom he brought up day by day, month by month and year by year ?

How come someone can keep his head upright by killing his own kid ?

How come they forget the innocent smile of the infant when they do this act ?

Instead of feeling ashamed of these acts people are talking about the bravery and proud by killing their own kids.

This is really shameful and disgusting.

very right sir.... but girls/ boys should also think about all the above written questions before stepping out of the limits...

saving and maintaining pride of 'Jats ' is the responsibility of every individual jat... and so we should understand and realize the expectations from our elders / youngers and community as a whole.

for all others whoever don't care about this well preserved royal pride we will have to set some examples helplessly ...

 

[piyush23]

No one is higher then Jats in any respect .. only a Jat can be higher then other jat

Agree ........ Mangke khane wali gation se hamara comparison na hi karain to behatar hoga......
Be confident yaar we are the best...
Kahate bhi hain ki ......JAT ko ya to ram mar sakta ha ra fir JAT hi maar sakta ha........mere hisab se ram bhi nahin maar sakta.....

 

[tomarhitesh23]

Agree ........ Mangke khane wali gation se hamara comparison na hi karain to behatar hoga......
Be confident yaar we are the best...
Kahate bhi hain ki ......JAT ko ya to ram mar sakta ha ra fir JAT hi maar sakta ha........mere hisab se ram bhi nahin maar sakta.....

bhai mere second sentence ka matlab tha ki doosre ki jarroorat hi nahi jat hi jat ko kat ta hai..