"Should the Govt amend HMA to ban 'same-gotra' marriage"?

[sjakhars]

You have not voted Mr. Vijay so you are not required to have a look at voting/poll . May I request you to clarify your stand on this topic (humble request only, I am no one to ask you to clear anything which you do not want to/which is not comfortable to you or to anyone for that matter). As far as I think one should clear his/her thoughts first and then discuss them with others and if needed necessary changes can be made which are acceptable to all or by the majority. You can not keep discussing things forever.

My comment was not about the number of votes but about the trend (87% favor the ammendment) and the clearity of people's thoughts.
The poll at Jatland shows that 83%+ support the ammendment, again, please look at the trend, not the numbers.

 

[vijay]

My comment was not about the number of votes but about the trend (87% favor the ammendment) and the clearity of people's thoughts.
The poll at Jatland shows that 83%+ support the ammendment, again, please look at the trend, not the numbers.

You are right that Jatland polls trends seems supporting amendments but what sort of the amendemnt ? Nobody knows as it is like "we want amendment" but nothing else. No blueprint, no resoning, no logic and no specific point except that same things shouting again and again like, gotra, village bhaichara, kheda etc etc.

Morever, this small portion of the poll hardly matters in the State Govt or Indian govt. scheme of things.

 

[vijay]

You have not voted Mr. Vijay so you are not required to have a look at voting/poll . May I request you to clarify your stand on this topic (humble request only, I am no one to ask you to clear anything which you do not want to/which is not comfortable to you or to anyone for that matter). As far as I think one should clear his/her thoughts first and then discuss them with others and if needed necessary changes can be made which are acceptable to all or by the majority. You can not keep discussing things forever.

My point of view on this whole issue is clear from the day one and i am discussing it since last month or so on verious aspects of the topic. It seems that somehow you missed to read that.

It is obvious from your side to ask about my point of views to discuss things instead of assuming and making perceptions. I am posting the material as it is from there with the link to read you here :


http://www.jatland.com/forums/showt...chayat-How-much-you-agree&p=245068#post245068

As per our traditions and customs, Jats are avoiding marriage in same gotra since thousands years. People are following the custom since then without any written law or constitution. There are also possibilities that few people not obeying this custom and got punished by their families or panchayats. I don't know what type of punishments they used to practice but i am certain that there is a huge difference between the Jat society of those days and present days. Long back a killers were treated as winners but now killers are treated as crminals and there is written law to punish them.

Well, we Jats are asking for the Amendment in Hindu Marriage Act for Jats. Next Day, Rajputs will start compaign for it then Sikhs, Brahmins, Yadav etc. Infact, most of the couunities in North India don't marry in their own gotra and all are spposed to follow the path taked by Jats. This will create another bigger issue like Reservation where every community is demanding their inclusion. Every community will start demanding separete amendment in the Hindu Marriage Act for their respective communities.

Next, the villege itself not a self-explanatory term if we consider amendment on the basis of villege society. What is a villege. How it is decided whether some place is Dhani, villege or town or what ? ( I am asking as per law ). Is there any specific criterion or parameters which are supposed to fulfill to consider some place as a villege. There are villeges where population is just 100 people ( or even less ) while there are villeges where population exceeds 10,000 ( while some towns consisting of population of 5000 ). So, Jats residing in a same town ( population of 5,000) can engage themselves in marriage relationship ( avoiding three gotras ) while jats residing in a villege of population 10,000 shouldn't engange in marriage relationship. Morever, there are many villege abnormalities like twin villeges, a set of small villeges being considered as a Villege etc.

There are so many big villeges where more than 100 gotras of Jats are residing. So, what gotra's should be avoided tomarry in such a villege or what gotras should be avoided by the people of those villeges ? The term 'surrounding villeges' makes the scenario much more difficult as the limit of 'surrounding villeges' seems endless and depends on the person to person and villege to villege. Every villege is surrounded by many villeges and those villeges are also surrounded by so many villeges and so on. So, where this surroundedness ends ?

If we are talking about the same gotra marriage only, then it is practiced uniformally among Jat community all across the country. But if we are talking about the issue of same villege, Kheda, same gotra villeges then less then 10% to total jat community follows it. This custom is practiced in only Khap dominated area of few districts of Haryana or maybe little bit in Western UP. Rest of Jats don't practice it and the percentage of this rest Jats population is approx 90% ( Jats from Rajasthan, Punjab, Western Haryana, UP, Himachal, Madhya Pradesh, Gujrat etc consistes of 90% of total Jat population ).

Would you like to consider Amendment in Hindu Marriage Act according to the statewise ( or areawise customs of Jats ) as there are no uniform customs among the Jat community.

Another one to clerify further :

http://www.jatland.com/forums/showt...indu-Marriage-Act-to-Bar-Same-Gotra-marriages

There is no blueprint or any specific amendment points yet and its just "we want amendment in HMA".

Even if it happens there would be millions of loose points to marry within same gotra. for eg. change the spelling of your gotra and enjoy the difference. Phogat, Phougat, Fogat will not be same gotra ... Sihag, Siwag, Sehwag will be different gotras and same with Kadian and Kadyan and so on. They can't prepare the encylopedia of Jat gotras and their inter-gotra relationships ... forget about the village bhaichara THING.

 

[rakeshsehrawat]

My point of view on this whole issue is clear from the day one and i am discussing it since last month or so on verious aspects of the topic. It seems that somehow you missed to read that.

It is obvious from your side to ask about my point of views to discuss things instead of assuming and making perceptions. I am posting the material as it is from there with the link to read you here :


http://www.jatland.com/forums/showt...chayat-How-much-you-agree&p=245068#post245068

As per our traditions and customs, Jats are avoiding marriage in same gotra since thousands years. People are following the custom since then without any written law or constitution. There are also possibilities that few people not obeying this custom and got punished by their families or panchayats. I don't know what type of punishments they used to practice but i am certain that there is a huge difference between the Jat society of those days and present days. Long back a killers were treated as winners but now killers are treated as crminals and there is written law to punish them.

Well, we Jats are asking for the Amendment in Hindu Marriage Act for Jats. Next Day, Rajputs will start compaign for it then Sikhs, Brahmins, Yadav etc. Infact, most of the couunities in North India don't marry in their own gotra and all are spposed to follow the path taked by Jats. This will create another bigger issue like Reservation where every community is demanding their inclusion. Every community will start demanding separete amendment in the Hindu Marriage Act for their respective communities.

Next, the villege itself not a self-explanatory term if we consider amendment on the basis of villege society. What is a villege. How it is decided whether some place is Dhani, villege or town or what ? ( I am asking as per law ). Is there any specific criterion or parameters which are supposed to fulfill to consider some place as a villege. There are villeges where population is just 100 people ( or even less ) while there are villeges where population exceeds 10,000 ( while some towns consisting of population of 5000 ). So, Jats residing in a same town ( population of 5,000) can engage themselves in marriage relationship ( avoiding three gotras ) while jats residing in a villege of population 10,000 shouldn't engange in marriage relationship. Morever, there are many villege abnormalities like twin villeges, a set of small villeges being considered as a Villege etc.

There are so many big villeges where more than 100 gotras of Jats are residing. So, what gotra's should be avoided tomarry in such a villege or what gotras should be avoided by the people of those villeges ? The term 'surrounding villeges' makes the scenario much more difficult as the limit of 'surrounding villeges' seems endless and depends on the person to person and villege to villege. Every villege is surrounded by many villeges and those villeges are also surrounded by so many villeges and so on. So, where this surroundedness ends ?

If we are talking about the same gotra marriage only, then it is practiced uniformally among Jat community all across the country. But if we are talking about the issue of same villege, Kheda, same gotra villeges then less then 10% to total jat community follows it. This custom is practiced in only Khap dominated area of few districts of Haryana or maybe little bit in Western UP. Rest of Jats don't practice it and the percentage of this rest Jats population is approx 90% ( Jats from Rajasthan, Punjab, Western Haryana, UP, Himachal, Madhya Pradesh, Gujrat etc consistes of 90% of total Jat population ).

Would you like to consider Amendment in Hindu Marriage Act according to the statewise ( or areawise customs of Jats ) as there are no uniform customs among the Jat community.

Another one to clerify further :

http://www.jatland.com/forums/showt...indu-Marriage-Act-to-Bar-Same-Gotra-marriages

There is no blueprint or any specific amendment points yet and its just "we want amendment in HMA".

Even if it happens there would be millions of loose points to marry within same gotra. for eg. change the spelling of your gotra and enjoy the difference. Phogat, Phougat, Fogat will not be same gotra ... Sihag, Siwag, Sehwag will be different gotras and same with Kadian and Kadyan and so on. They can't prepare the encylopedia of Jat gotras and their inter-gotra relationships ... forget about the village bhaichara THING.

Bhai Sahab aapko Village ki spelling e na aati aapne kyukar bera patega ke yu gam hai ya sehar.
Gaon abadi se nahi hote aur na hi shehar
Sehar mein Tehsil, SDM aur Thana hoga Gaam mein nahi.
Baaki Sabne clearly bera hai ki log ke chawe hain aapki samajh mein madi vari aata ho to bera na.
Baaki agar aapko Sikh Rajput wagarah follow karte hain to burai nahi honi chahiye.
Sikh Gurdware mein jate hain aap nahi jate honge. Wo cigratte nahi pite aapka pata nahi baki jato mein smoking purane time se common hai (Hukka)
Sabke apne dharam hain apni manyata hain aur sabko apni manyata ke hisab se kanoon mein badlaw karwane ka hak hai. Ye UNO ki guideline hai.
Khair aap nahi samjhoge

 

[virj]

There is no blueprint or any specific amendment points yet and its just "we want amendment in HMA".

Even if it happens there would be millions of loose points to marry within same gotra. for eg. change the spelling of your gotra and enjoy the difference. Phogat, Phougat, Fogat will not be same gotra ... Sihag, Siwag, Sehwag will be different gotras and same with Kadian and Kadyan and so on. They can't prepare the encylopedia of Jat gotras and their inter-gotra relationships ... forget about the village bhaichara THING.

If u listen carefully to people mahapanchayat has asked amendment regarding "doodh and Khoon ka rista". Which part of this line u dont understand? Moreover english spelling hardly matter in proving a law court "to which gotra u belong". English spelling wont change reality which have to be proved in court by the person challenging the case. If he cant prove bad luck.

 

[brahmtewatia]

तू कती बेर पका कै मानेगा.
... पाक ज्यां त भाई मने भी टेस्ट करा दिए.

If u listen carefully to people mahapanchayat has asked amendment regarding "doodh and Khoon ka rista". Which part of this line u dont understand? Moreover english spelling hardly matter in proving a law court "to which gotra u belong". English spelling wont change reality which have to be proved in court by the person challenging the case. If he cant prove bad luck.

 

[virj]

तू कती बेर पका कै मानेगा.
... पाक ज्यां त भाई मने भी टेस्ट करा दिए.

Roj to akhbar me aave he "Khaps seek amendment in HMA for ban on same gotra". Kitni bari va akhbar ki copy ade paste hove he. Also i think its also clearly mentioned in the opening post what we mean here by amendment so one shouldnt be confused.

More Rakesh can tell.
>
>
>
>

12 panne 238 replies and still people ask what ammendement these fools want

 

[rakeshsehrawat]

Is This Justified?
http://haryananews.org/tag/kabulpur
http://news.oneindia.in/2009/09/20/h...-for-love.html
Kabulpur Murder Mystery Solved
Girl blind in love with neighbor boy strangulated her family members along with lover. Mrder mystery solved on the forth day when Police told to media the it was Sonam the survivor of deceased family and her lover Navin Dagar. The Girl Sonam and his lover Naveen Dagar belong to same clan and have love affair from past few months. The relation between two was objected by family as they were brother and sister according to their clan and social customs. They noy procured the poison and girl mixed it with the flour at the time of food making in evening. After all the family members slept by the effect of poison Sonam along with Naveen strangulated 7 family members one by one. Both have confessed their crime and arrested by Rohtak Police

 

[sjakhars]

Do you agree that an ammendment in HMA is needed? If you agree then you can put a blue print (red/black/white/any color print for that matter) and we can discuss on that.
If not then keep discussing it forever. Your voice will not be heard if the voice of more than 80% people is not heard. You can not win the final match until you win the league matches to reach the final. People have given the verdict in polls (trends not numbers) and lets prepare ourselves for the final.
Would you like to go with the majority?
At least Jatland poll and also NDTV poll results support it by more than 4/5 majority.

PS: Please see the inline reply also in the quoted post.

You are right that Jatland polls trends seems supporting amendments but what sort of the amendemnt ?
It does not seem supporting the ammendment, it is supporting. The verb "seem" is a very vague expression and it is used mostly by people who try to be politically correct.

Morever, this small portion of the poll hardly matters in the State Govt or Indian govt. scheme of things.
And voice of a person who did not vote yet will matter to them.

 

[sjakhars]

My point of view on this whole issue is clear from the day one and i am discussing it since last month or so on verious aspects of the topic. It seems that somehow you missed to read that.
Vote in the poll and then it will be clear, you support the ammendment or not?

It is obvious from your side to ask about my point of views to discuss things instead of assuming and making perceptions. I am posting the material as it is from there with the link to read you here :


http://www.jatland.com/forums/showt...chayat-How-much-you-agree&p=245068#post245068

As per our traditions and customs, Jats are avoiding marriage in same gotra since thousands years. People are following the custom since then without any written law or constitution. There are also possibilities that few people not obeying this custom and got punished by their families or panchayats. I don't know what type of punishments they used to practice but i am certain that there is a huge difference between the Jat society of those days and present days. Long back a killers were treated as winners but now killers are treated as crminals and there is written law to punish them.
Now the police is protecting the offenders and they come out with their "chaudi chhaati" in the village and buly our customs. We want the law to take effect so this can be prevented because some youngester are too modern to follow our customs.

Well, we Jats are asking for the Amendment in Hindu Marriage Act for Jats. Next Day, Rajputs will start compaign for it then Sikhs, Brahmins, Yadav etc. Infact, most of the couunities in North India don't marry in their own gotra and all are spposed to follow the path taked by Jats. This will create another bigger issue like Reservation where every community is demanding their inclusion. Every community will start demanding separete amendment in the Hindu Marriage Act for their respective communities.

This is none of our business and you are not a spokespeson for the goverment.

Next, the villege itself not a self-explanatory term if we consider amendment on the basis of villege society. What is a villege. How it is decided whether some place is Dhani, villege or town or what ? ( I am asking as per law ). Is there any specific criterion or parameters which are supposed to fulfill to consider some place as a villege. There are villeges where population is just 100 people ( or even less ) while there are villeges where population exceeds 10,000 ( while some towns consisting of population of 5000 ). So, Jats residing in a same town ( population of 5,000) can engage themselves in marriage relationship ( avoiding three gotras ) while jats residing in a villege of population 10,000 shouldn't engange in marriage relationship. Morever, there are many villege abnormalities like twin villeges, a set of small villeges being considered as a Villege etc.
All villages/dhanis/towns are very well defined in the revenue department. You need to have a look at the local administration like tehsil, panchayat samiti, gram panchayat.

There are so many big villeges where more than 100 gotras of Jats are residing. So, what gotra's should be avoided tomarry in such a villege or what gotras should be avoided by the people of those villeges ? The term 'surrounding villeges' makes the scenario much more difficult as the limit of 'surrounding villeges' seems endless and depends on the person to person and villege to villege. Every villege is surrounded by many villeges and those villeges are also surrounded by so many villeges and so on. So, where this surroundedness ends ?

This can be discussed once we agree that an ammendment is needed. I am not saying that it will fe fullproof but believe me, it will help a lot.

If we are talking about the same gotra marriage only, then it is practiced uniformally among Jat community all across the country. But if we are talking about the issue of same villege, Kheda, same gotra villeges then less then 10% to total jat community follows it. This custom is practiced in only Khap dominated area of few districts of Haryana or maybe little bit in Western UP. Rest of Jats don't practice it and the percentage of this rest Jats population is approx 90% ( Jats from Rajasthan, Punjab, Western Haryana, UP, Himachal, Madhya Pradesh, Gujrat etc consistes of 90% of total Jat population ).
Other castes can come with us and this ammendment can be applied on them if they agree, where is the problem?
Would you like to consider Amendment in Hindu Marriage Act according to the statewise ( or areawise customs of Jats ) as there are no uniform customs among the Jat community.
Is "doodh ka aur khoon ka rishta" clear to you? Basic customs are same for all Jats. And why not, the law is for the people, people are not for law. Many codes/clauses are specific for specific states,

Another one to clerify further :

http://www.jatland.com/forums/showt...indu-Marriage-Act-to-Bar-Same-Gotra-marriages

There is no blueprint or any specific amendment points yet and its just "we want amendment in HMA".

Even if it happens there would be millions of loose points to marry within same gotra. for eg. change the spelling of your gotra and enjoy the difference. Phogat, Phougat, Fogat will not be same gotra ... Sihag, Siwag, Sehwag will be different gotras and same with Kadian and Kadyan and so on. They can't prepare the encylopedia of Jat gotras and their inter-gotra relationships ... forget about the village bhaichara THING.

They can not prepare but we can prepare. You can see one at Jatland, I know its nor fullprrof but at least we have something in hand on which we can work.

 

[vijay]

If u listen carefully to people mahapanchayat has asked amendment regarding "doodh and Khoon ka rista". Which part of this line u dont understand? Moreover english spelling hardly matter in proving a law court "to which gotra u belong". English spelling wont change reality which have to be proved in court by the person challenging the case. If he cant prove bad luck.

I have carefully read all the 12 points of MahaPaanchayat and also the "Khoon ka aur dhoodh ka rishta" theory. By khoon ka rishta they mean "people of someone's father's gotra" and dhoodh ka rishta means "people of someone's mother's gotra" .. if i understand these terms correctly rest you can correct me.

English spelling of the gotra names does matter and that will play major part if it happens. You can see some enlightened person is ridiculing the whole post because spelling of village is incorrect. If it is a bad luck than this bad luck will haunt thousands of people and will also burden the court with thousands of cases.

People still need to improve their general knowledge to differentiate between village, town, city and metro who are calling town as shahar.

 

[ravinderjeet]

Is This Justified?
http://haryananews.org/tag/kabulpur
http://news.oneindia.in/2009/09/20/h...-for-love.html
Kabulpur Murder Mystery Solved
Girl blind in love with neighbor boy strangulated her family members along with lover. Mrder mystery solved on the forth day when Police told to media the it was Sonam the survivor of deceased family and her lover Navin Dagar. The Girl Sonam and his lover Naveen Dagar belong to same clan and have love affair from past few months. The relation between two was objected by family as they were brother and sister according to their clan and social customs. They noy procured the poison and girl mixed it with the flour at the time of food making in evening. After all the family members slept by the effect of poison Sonam along with Naveen strangulated 7 family members one by one. Both have confessed their crime and arrested by Rohtak Police

jagmati sangwan tein bujho.

 

[rakeshsehrawat]

I have carefully read all the 12 points of MahaPaanchayat and also the "Khoon ka aur dhoodh ka rishta" theory. By khoon ka rishta they mean "people of someone's father's gotra" and dhoodh ka rishta means "people of someone's mother's gotra" .. if i understand these terms correctly rest you can correct me.

English spelling of the gotra names does matter and that will play major part if it happens. You can see some enlightened person is ridiculing the whole post because spelling of village is incorrect. If it is a bad luck than this bad luck will haunt thousands of people and will also burden the court with thousands of cases.

People still need to improve their general knowledge to differentiate between village, town, city and metro who are calling town as shahar.

There is difference in job of court and Bank they will not compare spellings i am sure.
People must improve knowledge about self.

 

[vijay]

All villages/dhanis/towns are very well defined in the revenue department. You need to have a look at the local administration like tehsil, panchayat samiti, gram panchayat.

There is huge difference between a Revenue Model and Jat gotra Model. Revenue Model is based on the land system which is quite practical and is upto date since hundreds years back ( if i am right then since Shershah Suri or Akbar priod though i am not sure about the initial date ). On the other hand, jat Gotra system have no model its just based on our belief and customs which differs from village to village and district to ditrict and changed almost completely after crossing the state.

They can not prepare but we can prepare. You can see one at Jatland, I know its nor fullprrof but at least we have something in hand on which we can work.

I didn't see any blueprint at Jatland but yes if people can prepare then it may be interesting to read and can be discussed.

 

[sjakhars]

There is huge difference between a Revenue Model and Jat gotra Model. Revenue Model is based on the land system which is quite practical and is upto date since hundreds years back ( if i am right then since Shershah Suri or Akbar priod though i am not sure about the initial date ). On the other hand, jat Gotra system have no model its just based on our belief and customs which differs from village to village and district to ditrict and changed almost completely after crossing the state.

We are talking about the village not gotra, a village is called in the name of the biggest gotra in the village in Haryana I think (not sure though). Where is the question of gotra? We have 2 parts here, same vilalge and same gotra and we need to define it seperately because someone can not marry in same gotra even if one of the family comes from another village. A gotra can not define the boundaries of the village as far as I think. The village has a border as per the revenue records and then the village is called of a specific gotra because they are in majority. I am not from Haryana so I would request people from Haryana that how a village is defined there. I can tell you about Rajasthan and specially Shekhawait area and there is no itra-village marriage. I can you an example of our awareness and progressive nature. Village Katrathal is now devided in three villages, Katrathal, Gumana ka Baas and Laxman ka baas and people can marry within these villages but still its very rare. It was the decision of the people who live in Katrathal as the village has grown a lot and same was put in the revenue dept. Records.



I didn't see any blueprint at Jatland but yes if people can prepare then it may be interesting to read and can be discussed.
Because you are looking for a blue print and I said we can have one but it can not be done in a day or a month. I hope learned people like you can come up with a print in their choice of colors and it can be discussed later, but someone has to start somewhere and that's exactly what being done by Khaps and other people. Did you see the gotra list compiled in Jatland Wiki? If we can have a list of gotras then we can have a list of villages and also we can have a draft of the proposed amendment.

Mr. Vijay,
You talk about openmindedness, open thought process but do you agree with the idea that an amendment can be done in the HMA as other people are asking/saying? If yes then put your thoughts here and that will be discussed otherwise you are not openminded as you can not agree with the idea of amendment. I am not asking there should be an amendment or not, only thing I want is to tell us if you agree with the idea. You are ridiculing the idea like we asking you to agree for change in fundamental rights in the constitution. HMA is not the core concept of the constitution and it can be changed by the parliament. Supreme court has the right to call it null and void only if it changes the core concept of the constitution.

 

[virj]

Even if it happens there would be millions of loose points to marry within same gotra. for eg. change the spelling of your gotra and enjoy the difference. Phogat, Phougat, Fogat will not be same gotra ... Sihag, Siwag, Sehwag will be different gotras and same with Kadian and Kadyan and so on.

English spelling of the gotra names does matter and that will play major part if it happens. If it is a bad luck than this bad luck will haunt thousands of people and will also burden the court with thousands of cases.

Jyani (ज्याणी) Jiani (जियाणी) Jani (जाणी) & Jayani the whole world knows they are same. Moreover one cannot just change the spelling in one day "and enjoy the difference" in ur words. How can they change their family history in one day. Its not like a pre-planned murder that you were preparing for years and destroy all evidence. More Sanjay can explain u.

Rather than worrying about extra burden on courts we can discuss this matter. Court can look after itself otherwise they will hire more people in court that would be good for economy.

 

[sjakhars]

"Gehun boya nahi aur sochne lage ki bhikhari aa gaye to unko kya/kaise denge."

Let the amendment happen, let it take effect. We will see the effect and after effects of this amendment and will decide how to deal with negative after effects.

"Gehun ko khet me bo-o pahle, use pakne do, uski laawni karo, boriyon me bhar ke ghar laao uske baad sochna ki bhikhari aa gaya to kya karenge."

If you do not understand it then I am sorry. I can not make anyone understand.

 

[vijay]

We are talking about the village not gotra, a village is called in the name of the biggest gotra in the village in Haryana I think (not sure though). Where is the question of gotra? We have 2 parts here, same vilalge and same gotra and we need to define it seperately because someone can not marry in same gotra even if one of the family comes from another village. A gotra can not define the boundaries of the village as far as I think. The village has a border as per the revenue records and then the village is called of a specific gotra because they are in majority. I am not from Haryana so I would request people from Haryana that how a village is defined there.

Its the same thing. Village consists of people and people have some or other gotra. Isn't it ? No village is officially known by the any specific gotra. We consider that village x belongs to Y gotra for our general knowledge or such stuff. We call My mama's village, fufa's village etc ... are they really their villages ? Village is an entity where people from many gotra and many community resides. Obviously, some specific community or gotra may dominate the village by population but that doesn't meant that they will decide the marriage rules in that village.

I can tell you about Rajasthan and specially Shekhawait area and there is no itra-village marriage. I can you an example of our awareness and progressive nature. Village Katrathal is now devided in three villages, Katrathal, Gumana ka Baas and Laxman ka baas and people can marry within these villages but still its very rare. It was the decision of the people who live in Katrathal as the village has grown a lot and same was put in the revenue dept. Records.

The sentence in blue is the main thing as people in Khap dominated area declare these as brother villages and imposing the rule that they can not make marriage relationship. Not only this, they declare 10-15 or more surrounding village as borther villages ( Bhaichara ) and don't allow marriage relationship. Not only for the dominated gotra but the people of other gotras are forced to obey them instead of a collective decision or letting it be decided by themselves. If a rare case happens ( infact it happens rarely .... as you said about the villages ), they are supposed to feel heat from the Khaps.

Mr. Vijay,
You talk about openmindedness, open thought process but do you agree with the idea that an amendment can be done in the HMA as other people are asking/saying? If yes then put your thoughts here and that will be discussed otherwise you are not openminded as you can not agree with the idea of amendment. I am not asking there should be an amendment or not, only thing I want is to tell us if you agree with the idea. You are ridiculing the idea like we asking you to agree for change in fundamental rights in the constitution. HMA is not the core concept of the constitution and it can be changed by the parliament. Supreme court has the right to call it null and void only if it changes the core concept of the constitution.

I am not saying that Amendment can not be done, Obviously it can be done and if govt feels its right to amend certain rules they can do it overnight by calling upon a special session of Parliament or any other process supposed to follow. I

I am talking about the significance of the amendment and impacts it may bring or not. Traditions and customs are followed by the people by their own will but not by the any force.

You may say that let amendment happen then we can see its after effects .... i may differ here as i beleive that law should amended after lot of thought process. What if the suggested amendment bring so many complexicity and other bad things in our lives ? Do we need to fight again to write off the amendments forced by us.

What is the better way ... fighting once or twice ?

 

[kusumdhochak]

I raised this question earlier also. Is this amendment that people are asking such that it won't leave any way for two people of same gotra/ same village to marry (without changing name etc) ? If yes, then it won't matter that 80% people want this amendment and it can't happen as it is violation of basic human rights of rest 20% and laws are not made by following majority.
If it does leave a way out, then I don't see why people are trying so hard to get it?

Do you agree that an ammendment in HMA is needed? If you agree then you can put a blue print (red/black/white/any color print for that matter) and we can discuss on that.
If not then keep discussing it forever. Your voice will not be heard if the voice of more than 80% people is not heard. You can not win the final match until you win the league matches to reach the final. People have given the verdict in polls (trends not numbers) and lets prepare ourselves for the final.
Would you like to go with the majority?
At least Jatland poll and also NDTV poll results support it by more than 4/5 majority.

PS: Please see the inline reply also in the quoted post.

 

[sjakhars]

There are restrictions in HMA about marriage within cousins, sister-brother etc. so don't you feel that these restrictions are violating the basic human rights. Who is the govt. to stop a marriage between a real sister and brother if they both agree to marry with each other? Its their matter and let them take the decision. Basic human rights are not absolute. If you go with the basic human right concept then no one can restrict you anywhere. Do you think that is good for the society and the country?

I raised this question earlier also. Is this amendment that people are asking such that it won't leave any way for two people of same gotra/ same village to marry (without changing name etc) ? If yes, then it won't matter that 80% people want this amendment and it can't happen as it is violation of basic human rights of rest 20% and laws are not made by following majority.
If it does leave a way out, then I don't see why people are trying so hard to get it?