System Vs Mansikta

ssgoyat said:
I rephrase it with new view point now.

Jab system ko chalane wale, banane wale sudhenge (sudharega kaun: Khud system: Tough law, speedy trial..)... to system sudherage.... logo ko sudharna hi padega, nahi to wahi system jab sarkari afsaraan aur babuo ko sudhar sakta hai to aam log kya cheez hain.
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As you said it is rephrase but not a new view point rather same view point in different words. why you are not understanding that people who are part of system are from among us only. They are not sent from heaven dear.If tomorrow you become a DSP and start doing what current DSP is doing then fault is that?

System banane wale? who are those? Start asking the questions to your MLAs/MP and things will improve.

PS:- Just read you signature line that answers the questions that you are raising? if system is killing you then they are beating you first.
 
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Arvindc said:
However, the big question is did my patience and ordeal that I took changed anything in the systems or the views of any person in passport office. I can bet the impact was nill.
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It will change only when every one start doing not when one Arvind or rinku doing it. As i said above i'm reiterating it is individuals who needs to improve and system will improve. Samaj/system sudharan hai to khud ko sudharo n yes you might heard this dialog in movies too.
 
Talking of passports, my visa to US was kept pending and my earlier passport was damaged. I had to be in US in 15 days to attend college, so I applied for passport under Tatkal where in new passport is supposed to come in 3 days. Mine took 5 to come, and a trip to office each day after 3rd one to chase them but did I pay a single penny? No. Did I use some approach? No. Did it take a lot of efforts, certainly.

There were some things that were implemented for good like with an intention of removing corruption like:
1) Applicant has to submit form himself, thus removing the dalals. Even if Dalal fill form for you, you need to submit forms yourself.
2) Online tracking of your passport

But some troubles still remain, like the inspector who comes to your house for inspection will not move until you pay him and of course you need to chase officers a lot, like I did.
 
I want to share my passport story as well . I did it all by myself no brokers n it was easy opposite to what I assumed that too in Rohtak I went straight to office asked for form next day did all -form filling , submission by myself . Police verification was smooth as well , mere samne no money changed hands ( background no clue ) though as per my many friends kuch lena dena padta hai . N I got my passport I guess in 2-3 months without any follow ups no email nothing.
 
rinkusheoran said:
If tomorrow you become a DSP and start doing what current DSP is doing then fault is that? .
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Rinku,

Of course it boils down to individuals when you talk about corruption. But why would they become corrupt because system has many loopholes. If all people are honest then there is no requirement of Police or Vigilance. System is there because there are dishonest people.
rinkusheoran said:
System banane wale? who are those? Start asking the questions to your MLAs/MP and things will improve.
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Yes that is a genuine question. It is a fault of both bureaucracy and politicians. Politicians have power to reform bureaucray but they won't do it because they will loose a lot of business. But again as Samar said, who choose those politicians. We choose them. We can't think beyond caste, personal gains etc. Also very few people understand the 'actual' problem in the system. We relate our vote to a politician is through personal gains only. Very few people care about roads, development etc. Most of voters care about short term gains may be some cash, liquor or some favour. If people start linking their personal benefits with development, honesty etc then we can see a change. But how would that link establish is a million dollar question.
 
rinkusheoran said:
.If tomorrow you become a DSP and start doing what current DSP is doing then fault is that?

.
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So, why couldn't the system catch the current DSP , trail him, put him behind the bars...and set an example for other DSP's and future DSP's to come.

No, system is made weaker by the people (in the system) you want us to ask questions from (MLA/MP).

The average time of Judicial trail runs more than a decade !!! What can anyone expect?

Why can't the system hires more judges, make more courts, and bring speedy justice? It's been a debate for decades. But would the people sitting in the system, ever let this happen?? No, because it wouldn't suit their requirements as the same people in the system do the Ghotalas.
 
rinkusheoran said:
It will change only when every one start doing not when one Arvind or rinku doing it. As i said above i'm reiterating it is individuals who needs to improve and system will improve. Samaj/system sudharan hai to khud ko sudharo n yes you might heard this dialog in movies too.
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Things aren't that simple. Let me ask you few things.

If it all boils down to an individual goodness, then why is there a police force, the judges, judiciary, CBI and many other such organizations? If all individuals follow the rules, are honest and earn their living by hard work, then do we need any laws and do we need "the system itself"?

Does one behave differently when one is in US vis-a-vis India while in the traffic, on the streets, in the public transport, the way you deal in the government office? If so, have you ever wondered about the reasons? Isn't it because your behavior is molded by the system in which you are?


Are humans born the way they are or do they change after they are born? These same Indian people behaved differently 2 decades ago? What happened in these two decades? What made the changes in people's attitude? Why this change did not happen in people in US, Singapore etc, in these 2 decades?
 
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Arvindc said:
Does one behave differently when one is in US vis-a-vis India while in the traffic, on the streets, in the public transport, the way you deal in the government office? If so, have you ever wondered about the reasons? Isn't it because your behavior is molded by the system in which you are?
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And since we agree system in India is not going to change by itself, least we can do is to change ourselves? We are a part of system, if we change wont it change system too, be it a tiny bit? Charity begins at home, so does correcting one self, and country.

Can you spit on roads blaming the system in Kolkata or steal electricity in villages in Delhi because system allows you to or because you are corrupt and dont want to improve? We all are corrupt from with in and we find a spacegoat to feel less guilty and more often than not it is the system and other person doing wrong.

If punishment were the fear, we would have be having murderers in the society.
 
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...UP-lokayukta-says/articleshow_b2/20153832.cms

So. Politicians/Bureaucrats Vs Manskita??? Pls Answer?? I wish this money should have been spent on education of meritorious Dalit Students !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! But No, Big Sharks siphoned this off !!!!!!!!??????

Mayawati's men siphoned off Rs 1,400 crore in dalit memorial scam, UP lokayukta says

- around of Rs 4,188 crore spent on the purchase and finishing of stones for the memorials, around 35% was pocketed by politicians, bureaucrats, engineers and contractors.

-It was also found during investigation that Siddiqui and Kushwaha had a tiff over sharing commission paid by the contractors. Kushwaha got larger share in comparison to Siddiqui. Kushwaha was later expelled from the BSP after his named figured in the NRHM scam.

- in May 2012 when police conducted a preliminary investigation on a complaint. It found that anomalies took place at every step from plantation of trees to allotment of construction contracts.

- it was found that a consortium of 39 mining leaseholders from Mirzapur was formed for sandstone supply. The formation of consortium was illegal as several mining leaseholders had not renewed their mining licenses. The expenditure on purchasing and supply of sandstone shown on paper was allegedly more than double of actual cost.

- Official cost of carving of the elephant installed in memorials was shown Rs 48 lakh on papers but only Rs 5 lakh per statute was paid. The memorials have over 200 statues of elephant. Over 37,000 palm trees were imported from the Middle East for the memorials. A tree costing Rs 5000 was purchased at Rs 25,000.

No study was done to find out whether imported trees will survive in new conditions or not. As a result, of the total trees bought, only around 10% survived.

- Also, on papers it was stated that bulbs and lights for lightening and electrification in and around memorials were imported from Belgium and Denmark but in reality duplicates were purchased from Noida and Gurgaon.
 
I ask all participants and readers in the present thread that how many times you have participated in voting at any level. Just participation.
 
I voted 3 times and for Congress. I'm not kidding, its truth. Here in Rajasthan mostly Jats vote for Congress.
Anyways, Congress broke my trust and betrayed whole of nation, so I started hating it like anything.

In coming election, if BJP nominates Modi for PM then I would come right from here just to cast my vote for BJP, otherwise I ll never vote.



Samarkadian said:
I ask all participants and readers in the present thread that how many times you have participated in voting at any level. Just participation.
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ssgoyat said:
So, why couldn't the system catch the current DSP , trail him, put him behind the bars...and set an example for other DSP's and future DSP's to come.

No, system is made weaker by the people (in the system) you want us to ask questions from (MLA/MP).

The average time of Judicial trail runs more than a decade !!! What can anyone expect?

Why can't the system hires more judges, make more courts, and bring speedy justice? It's been a debate for decades. But would the people sitting in the system, ever let this happen?? No, because it wouldn't suit their requirements as the same people in the system do the Ghotalas.
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Do you think it has not happened? Raja was in jail but have politicians stopped doing corruption? pakistani crickets were banned for life fro spot fixing , was that a deterrent to sreesanth n others? Chautala's are behind bars for irregularities in teacher hiring , will there wont be any irregularities now?

if some people really have facts on oficer doing bad then why dont you or for that matter the good people file PILs and get them behind bars? ebb nyu na kahoiye ki court mein bhi kuch na hota.


fir kahunga jab tak khud nhi sudhoregey tab kuch nhi sudherega chahe yahan hum baith k kitne ki JL k page kale n nille kar le.
 
Samarkadian said:
I ask all participants and readers in the present thread that how many times you have participated in voting at any level. Just participation.
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university DUSU election 5 times, sarpanch, BDC, zilla parshad, MLA/MP voted at all level from time i have become eligible.

For those who say they will never vote for whatever reasons, you not casting your vote will not make any difference but you exercising your vote might make a difference.
 
rinkusheoran said:
if some people really have facts on oficer doing bad then why dont you or for that matter the good people file PILs and get them behind bars? ebb nyu na kahoiye ki court mein bhi kuch na hota.
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In your opinion what do you think is the average time in trial start date to final justice date & in Indian Judicial 'System' ? (Including after first trial, case moving from session, to high to supreme court)
 
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