The Demonic Side of RSS, the only side I know

[birbal]

I have known RSS as the strongest anti-Jat force in Rajasthan for the past 55 years. But, more than being anti-Jat, I have found these people to be cowardly, liars, and cheats. Although they talk of nationalism, I have not known any of them to join armed forces to sacrifice their life for the country,
where in Jhunjhunu district, almost every Jat family has members who sacrificed their life for the country.

Essentially, these people are generally petty goonda types who superficially do some good deeds as described by some members for public relations purposes. In recent years, the organization has been used for massive fund raising purposes by senior goondas like Pramod Mahajan.

On the specific story of the one of the brightest Jat young man, Sanwat Singh, who was stabbed to death by one of the closest associate of Vajpayee, Mr. Virendra Saklecha (later Chief Minister of Madhya Pradesh) and several RSS goondas on January 31, 1948, is a matter of court record. A case was lodged in Jhunjhunu against these people, but in those days there was not much justice for Jats. For further refernce to this, read "Shekhawati mein Swatantrata Aandolan Ka Itihas," by Mohan Singh.

In a strange twist of politics, when the Jan Sangh people realized that they have to broaden their party beyond RSS, the BJP was formed where some Jats also joined it. One of the current BJP MP from Churu district in Rajasthan is a Jat, Mr. Ram Singh, and he was a class mate of my wife in Ramgargh, Shekhawati, and my wife always describes him as a brave fighter against RSS goondas in Ramgarh. Those people who support RSS should talk to this BJP Member of Parliament.

Further to this political twist, although some Jats are in BJP, RSS people do not vote for Jat BJP candidates. In an attempt to defeat Mr. Sisram Ola, the current Jhunjhunu MP, and cabinet minister, the BJP put a Jat candidate, Mrs. Santosh Ahlawat against him. But, all the RSS people voted against the Jat BJP candidate and Mr. Ola was reelected. In Jhunjhunu, assembly seat, the BJP put up a Jat, Mrs. Sumitra Singh (current speaker of Rajasthan), and the RSS cadre made demonstrations against her but she won on Muslim and Jat votes.

Just remember that even in the time of the most anti-Hindu and cruelest of Muslim, Aurangzeb, some Hindus occupied high positions. Also, after the recent earthquake in Kashmir, the terrorist groups were most active in humanitarian activities. Does that make them decent people?

I am not interested in changing opinions of any narrow minded, selfish people, who look at their own interests in helping a common enemy of a community, but at least know your facts.

 

[rkumar]

There is no doubt that BJP cadre (read RSS) has always been anti Jat. Most BJP leaders are opportunist to the lowest level and can change 180 degree. We all know how Advani changed on Jinnah. There is hardly any BJP leader know for his/ her role in freedom struggle of nation. People like Advani will even convert to Islam if assured of Prime Minister ship. BJP and moral don't go together. Other parties are no better but certainly not as low as BJP.

RK^2

 

[mukeshkumar007]

There is no doubt that BJP cadre (read RSS) has always been anti Jat. Most BJP leaders are opportunist to the lowest level and can change 180 degree. We all know how Advani changed on Jinnah. There is hardly any BJP leader know for his/ her role in freedom struggle of nation. People like Advani will even convert to Islam if assured of Prime Minister ship. BJP and moral don't go together. Other parties are no better but certainly not as low as BJP.

RK^2

101% percent right...

 

[naresh.mehta]

A lil' doubt!

@ Mr Birbal
Being a new guy into politcs.. cant comment much abt wat happened bak in 50s.. no point digging graves.. !
Also I felt that most of your anti RSS comments r based on wat happened in shekhawati zone.. but then RSS in a national party right??

Wat about its activities in other regions.. I was of the view that these ppl have been into many social works esp in maharashtra n bihar.. and they have been effective in confronting many local dadas n shiv sainiks in the maratha region!

Well certainly as the electoral facts reveal ... they have not been gud for us..! never voted for jat candidates, but is that the sole criterion to state that they are .. xyz!

I heard n rather had personal experience of the highheadedness with which RSS implements its policies.. at times it goes beyond the tolerance zone of democratic constitution.. but only at times!! wat about the other works of RSS .. whr they more than often keep a perfect moral check on society ... (though it is unconstitutional!) ... the work they have done for educating poor biharis n nepali kids in bihar n jharkhand!

watevr... I am not trying to argue as such .. just a query!! I shall fully abide by watevr the more experienced ppl of the community say!

 

[birbal]

@ Mr Birbal
Being a new guy into politcs.. cant comment much abt wat happened bak in 50s.. no point digging graves.. !
Also I felt that most of your anti RSS comments r based on wat happened in shekhawati zone.. but then RSS in a national party right??

Wat about its activities in other regions.. I was of the view that these ppl have been into many social works esp in maharashtra n bihar.. and they have been effective in confronting many local dadas n shiv sainiks in the maratha region!

Well certainly as the electoral facts reveal ... they have not been gud for us..! never voted for jat candidates, but is that the sole criterion to state that they are .. xyz!

I heard n rather had personal experience of the highheadedness with which RSS implements its policies.. at times it goes beyond the tolerance zone of democratic constitution.. but only at times!! wat about the other works of RSS .. whr they more than often keep a perfect moral check on society ... (though it is unconstitutional!) ... the work they have done for educating poor biharis n nepali kids in bihar n jharkhand!

watevr... I am not trying to argue as such .. just a query!! I shall fully abide by watevr the more experienced ppl of the community say!

Naresh,

Do not misunderstand my comments that I am picking only at RSS. I vehementally oppose all such top down, authorotative, and totalarian organizations ranging from extreme left to extreme right on the political spectrum. Just because they indulge in occassional humanitarian activities, is not sufficient to make them good organizations. Obviously, my Hindu friends on this site take offence when I relate RSS to LeT or JeM, but I am always outspoken on this issue, and I have Muslim friends in Canada who take offence on equating LeT with RSS that was the principal force in butchering over 2,000 Muslims in Gujerat. But, I am used to such criticism.

Coming back to the main point, RSS and similar organizations (who say 'my God is better than your God') are extremely orthodox in nature. But, as George Orwell wrote "Orthodoxy is unconsciousness, orthodoxy is not thinking - not needing to think." There is no room for dissent in these organizations. Let us face it, intelligence is what separates us from other animals. To give up your to think is to deny yourself your humanity.

My opposition to these groups start from the schools they run because they ruin the future of untold number of innocent children. It does not matter whether you look at the Madarasas or the RSS schools, (or even few Christian schools I have seen in Canada), what they provide can not be classified as education in true sense. They destroy the basic human capacity of independent thinking.

Jeremy Bentham (1748-1832) argued for the separation of Church and State, individual and economic freedom, freedom of expression, equal rights of women, animal rights, and the end of slavery. Though his name is not a household word, most of the progress of the Western world can be attributed to his ideas advanced and refined by his followers. He was the first one to support education of ordinary, poor people (who were not allowed to enter Cambridge and Oxford in those days), and started the University College of London (where his stuffed body is still kept and brought to Faculty meetings) because he believed that it will produce enlightened and public spirited statesmen who will overcome conservative stupidity. It proved right to a great extent for the Western world.

But, Dr. Hegdewar (the founder of RSS), and his mentor, B.S. Moonje decided to make Italian Fascists and German Nazis as their role models. Moonje travelled to Italy to meet Mussolini and fashioned the training RSS Sakhas on the Fascist methods. Golwalker, the second head of RSS celebrated Nazi Germany, and the "purging" of an entire people was entirely justifiable to him as it was an expression of "national pride at its highest.."

From an objective view, RSS meets the criteria of a terrorist organization (see http://www.terrorism.com ), and I am sure sooner or later it will be declared one. Remember, President Reagan had praised Bin Laden and the Jihadis as freedom fighters not long ago. Look at the price the world has paid for the temporary benefits received from the terrorists.

You mention that RSS people fought the local 'dadas'. Remember,that RSS people are the 'dadas'. How do you think Pramod Mahajan coming from a poor background, accumulated assets estimated to be worth Rs. 10,000 Crores? When I say I knew these people mainly as goondas 55 years ago, nothing has changed as these people are now bigger goondas who deal with thousands of Crores of assets.

 

[ratananmol]

Dear Prof. Singh:
Your views come with a precision which is not possible for someone as young as myself. I think it should make people question their loyalties and faith.
Best Regards, Anmol.

 

[naresh.mehta]

Too liberal ... !!

Sir,
Acknowledging the fact that it is only in past one decade or so that India has actually started rolling... The average Indian has become smart and independent enough to make hiw own decisions for livelihood. Let us go back to the 80s !! And let us try to establish the role of this organisation RSS back then... reminding u of the fact that there were no Let and Al Qaidas back then to battle...

RSS was the sole light of ray and hope... only medium of education and enlightenment for the poor dalits , adivasis and 'left out' ones. Congress and other political parties were catering to only the upper end of the society... while the poorer and unaware ones who could not affect the vote banks were left negl;ected by these so called 'liberal' .. pro development and rightists !!

I agree both these extremes of left and right have been doing nothing but hatching their own eggs for years now.. but RSS leaders are a little different.. they have a sincere vision and they are working with all the dedication to achieve that.. the vision may not suit that well now in the 21st century ... but it was highly instrumental in mobilizing and empowering the weaker people!!

They gave sticks.. taught sports and warfare to youth... Is it wrong to hone the physical skills of young generation... ?? If yes they might have been wrong.. but i beg to differ... these skills and strength are not fitting well in this technology driven world of IT but it was very handy for them to counter the high headed upper caste rich people in orissa and bihar!

We dont start blaming and yelling over our grandparents who preach not to stay out after 10 in the night.. we dont point fingers at them for being concerned for out morality... our ettiquetes.. They do it for two basic reasons:
1) because they really care for us.. and to them our late night parties are actually wrong... they think according to their times... probably unaware of the corrupt westernisation !
2) They want to be heard and to be felt important!! .. An old man is like a baby!!


Now ... RSS is pretty much in the same situation.. the founders of the RSS had a vision which was perfect for that time.. they had to take help of Nazis and Mussolini 'coz these powers were anti british...!!
Now Sir , you seriously arent planing to disparage Netaji or laud Britishers!!

RSS did only one mistake.. it could not change wid the changing world!! But then too pure a stuff tends to break at minimum impact!! Adultering is done to improve the strength!! They didnt adulterate their ideology!

And the new leaders got a little self centered.. though they are still thousand times better than the political leaders busy stuffing their pockets!! They are still working out in the hot sun with lower ranks of the party hand in hand... they are still aware of the poverty and unemployment creeping under the shining India.. and they are fully aware of the demoralising standards of Indian youth..
Poor fellows find it tough to realise that the strong force of the West would not let their land stay naive and pure.. it will be corporatised like rest of the world! They tried their best just to be blamed by us for being so high headed!

I agree last 10 years have changed it all... the new youth leaders with political aspirations come up wid 'hatred spreading' formulae and the allies VHP , ... Bajrang dal are doing no good either! But then the only reason of recent aggresive stance of RSS is the rise of muslim terrorism..! It is a vicious circle to be frank.. a chain rather..

US wants control over USSR .. it trains Taliban.. Taliban is helped by Pakis too.. Pakis want kashmir... So all muslim terrorist outfits get together to disturb Indian peace in the valley!!

// Sir many members of RSS are survivors of Bbay blasts.. Hindu pundit massacres of the valley etc... and obviosuly they have every reason to hate muslims!! It is very much justified Sir.. one has to lose someone real close to realise that...!!

**{Same goes with christaianity.. religious feelings are not sown .. they are always there in the back of the mind .. they can only be inflammed.. which recent political leaders did so well for their own purpose..!!}

So basically RSS starts hunting for muslims.. starts changing its strategy from 'self devlopment centered' TO 'Anti pak centerd' ... but there WAS a provoking!! Certainly leaders at the top wid political aspirations did no good... Advani for example!

Now US wanted middle east... taliban screews US.. US backfires engulfing Iraq too.. Paki militants come under US scrutiny.. And like some supremos US comes up wid a list of terrorist outfits.. which includes hindu groups too.. !! But who caused all this.. after 80s !! The outsiders.. !

Sir to be frank RSS is a big organisation with a very dedicated and sincere workforce.. which is finding it tough to create a place for its old ideology and principles.. And is being misled by politicians for their own gud! But the intention of RSS and the original ideology should never be doubted and questioned!!

When we Jats are ready to vote for Mr Ola or Mr Ahlawat or Mrs Sumitra on the basis of caste ... how can we so hypocritically criticise RSSs stand on supporting and praising hinduism .. when not even a small fraction of hindu society is even a bit concerned about the declining culture and values of India!

If led by proper people the same work force of RSS can do wonders.. I happened to meet some swayam sevaks at pune during intern.. What a pure mind and willingness to work for the society !! They were involved in every small thing that could help their city in being a better place to live in!!

Anyways... I may be wrong.. I have seen much less of the world.. But I would never criticise my grandfather for being highheaded or extreme while dealing with me.. I would rather accomodate him in the changing scheme of events around us! And let him keep me back to my roots .. to my origin and my culture!!

Naresh,

Do not misunderstand my comments that I am picking only at RSS. I vehementally oppose all such top down, authorotative, and totalarian organizations ranging from extreme left to extreme right on the political spectrum. Just because they indulge in occassional humanitarian activities, is not sufficient to make them good organizations. Obviously, my Hindu friends on this site take offence when I relate RSS to LeT or JeM, but I am always outspoken on this issue, and I have Muslim friends in Canada who take offence on equating LeT with RSS that was the principal force in butchering over 2,000 Muslims in Gujerat. But, I am used to such criticism.

Coming back to the main point, RSS and similar organizations (who say 'my God is better than your God') are extremely orthodox in nature. But, as George Orwell wrote "Orthodoxy is unconsciousness, orthodoxy is not thinking - not needing to think." There is no room for dissent in these organizations. Let us face it, intelligence is what separates us from other animals. To give up your to think is to deny yourself your humanity.

My opposition to these groups start from the schools they run because they ruin the future of untold number of innocent children. It does not matter whether you look at the Madarasas or the RSS schools, (or even few Christian schools I have seen in Canada), what they provide can not be classified as education in true sense. They destroy the basic human capacity of independent thinking.

Jeremy Bentham (1748-1832) argued for the separation of Church and State, individual and economic freedom, freedom of expression, equal rights of women, animal rights, and the end of slavery. Though his name is not a household word, most of the progress of the Western world can be attributed to his ideas advanced and refined by his followers. He was the first one to support education of ordinary, poor people (who were not allowed to enter Cambridge and Oxford in those days), and started the University College of London (where his stuffed body is still kept and brought to Faculty meetings) because he believed that it will produce enlightened and public spirited statesmen who will overcome conservative stupidity. It proved right to a great extent for the Western world.

But, Dr. Hegdewar (the founder of RSS), and his mentor, B.S. Moonje decided to make Italian Fascists and German Nazis as their role models. Moonje travelled to Italy to meet Mussolini and fashioned the training RSS Sakhas on the Fascist methods. Golwalker, the second head of RSS celebrated Nazi Germany, and the "purging" of an entire people was entirely justifiable to him as it was an expression of "national pride at its highest.."

From an objective view, RSS meets the criteria of a terrorist organization (see http://www.terrorism.com ), and I am sure sooner or later it will be declared one. Remember, President Reagan had praised Bin Laden and the Jihadis as freedom fighters not long ago. Look at the price the world has paid for the temporary benefits received from the terrorists.

You mention that RSS people fought the local 'dadas'. Remember,that RSS people are the 'dadas'. How do you think Pramod Mahajan coming from a poor background, accumulated assets estimated to be worth Rs. 10,000 Crores? When I say I knew these people mainly as goondas 55 years ago, nothing has changed as these people are now bigger goondas who deal with thousands of Crores of assets.

 

[vinodks]

Dear Birbalji, I am not in position to discuss all the points you raised. You are knowledgeable person and have helped lots of students in jatland.

I am a alumni of a RSS school, Gita Sen Sec School KKR, and after reading your post it looks like my future is ruined. Could you please suggest what should I do?

Its known that Halwasiya Vidya Vihar is best school in Bhiwani, Gopal Vidya Mandir is best school in Jind, Gita Niketan is best school in Kurukshetra and so on and so forth. I dont recall anything taught in school which is against humanity by any amount of exaggeration. I think you are misinformed in that part.

I think Jatland is becoming battleground of different ideologies (political and religious). Poeple whould desist from hurting anyone's sentiments and discussions should relate to Jat community somehow. People have different views and I respect everyone's views. I am opposed to orthodoxy of any kind and have no affiliation to any political party or ideological orgn. I am proud Hindu Jat and know what it means by being Hindu and Jat both at the same time.

Finally, I can't hear anything against my shcool because of which I am here from an unknown village.

-vinod

My opposition to these groups start from the schools they run because they ruin the future of untold number of innocent children. It does not matter whether you look at the Madarasas or the RSS schools, (or even few Christian schools I have seen in Canada), what they provide can not be classified as education in true sense. They destroy the basic human capacity of independent thinking.
.

 

[vinodks]

Naresh, thats very balanced account... Thanks.

-vinod

Sir,

Acknowledging the fact that it is only in past one decade or so that India has actually started rolling... The average Indian has become smart and independent enough to make hiw own decisions for livelihood. Let us go back to the 80s !! And let us try to establish the role of this organisation RSS back then... reminding u of the fact that there were no Let and Al Qaidas back then to battle...

......................
.....................

If led by proper people the same work force of RSS can do wonders.. I happened to meet some swayam sevaks at pune during intern.. What a pure mind and willingness to work for the society !! They were involved in every small thing that could help their city in being a better place to live in!!

Anyways... I may be wrong.. I have seen much less of the world.. But I would never criticise my grandfather for being highheaded or extreme while dealing with me.. I would rather accomodate him in the changing scheme of events around us! And let him keep me back to my roots .. to my origin and my culture!!

 

[birbal]

Dear Birbalji, I am not in position to discuss all the points you raised. You are knowledgeable person and have helped lots of students in jatland.

I am a alumni of a RSS school, Gita Sen Sec School KKR, and after reading your post it looks like my future is ruined. Could you please suggest what should I do?
*********************************************************
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-vinod

Vinod,

I am very disappointed that you are not trying to understand my arguments. First,let me start by taking you in a completely different direction. In my class in IIT, I had many classmates from Catholic Church run schools in India. These were all fine gentlemen and most are still in touch with me through our class group.

Now, answer me whether you agree with me that despite producing several outstanding students, these Christian Schools have done immense harm to India. The problems in Nagaland, Mizoram and some other parts of India are created by these missionaries and schools are part of their system.

The only difference between your position and mine is that I oppose all religion based schools whether they are Christian, Muslim or Hindu. We need good quality public education.

Also, I went to IIT and completed a Ph.D. without having an elementary school education. Our class group produced a 40th aniversary yearbook and they were stunned to know that I made it to IIT without formal elementary school education. Just because both of us made it to IIT from our schools that does not mean our paths were great and others should follow it. Exceptions do not make the rule, just as someone like George W. Bush with degrees from Harvard and Yale is not a bad reflection on either of the great schools.


Further, let me provide some more evidence on organizations like RSS, LeT, JeM, and criminal organizations like drug cartels. In all these groups, the top people lead a luxurious life full of debauchery, but over 99% of members are true belivers and simple, honest people. Have you seen any Mulla become a suicide bomber? If you get some free time, read "freakonomics" by Prof. Steve Levit of University of Chicago and look at the chapter dealing with drug cartel. The situation is no different in RSS. There are people like Pramod Mahajan who went through the system and took full advantage of it in amassing immense wealth and power, and there are people like Vajpayee, who openly say " Shadi nahin ki, par Brahmchari nahin hun".

 

[vinodks]

Birbalji, sorry if my post showed insincerity to participate in debate. I agree that orthodoxy in religions should be separated from objective and independent attitude necessary for seeking true knowledge. All I wanted to say my school didn't teach any religious orthodoxy but spirit of respecting other's views and "respecting one's own views too". Your efforts for maintaining secular environment are appreciated.

-vinod

 

[naresh.mehta]

hmmmm

So ... it boils down to cracking JEE... !! Sir, do u really believe that getting into IIT and then reaching higher position in society is at all a criterion to decide the character and standards of a human being!!

Great to learn that you and Mr Vinod managed to reach IIT portals despite of RSS education !! as if it is that sub standard..! Sir, Please come on!!

We cant judge an organisation just by its leaders.. it is the workforce that counts! And believe me the workforce of RSS is awesome.

As far as missionaries are concerned.. well you might be against them and the way they teach .... I too am against 'christianity claim' of only one God and only one holy book of bible.. I despise the way they converted people.. but does that negate watevr gud they did to ppl and society!
Christians may not come over for disaster mgmt. like RSS people but they are wonderful people with really big heart.. They are just a bit too obsessed about the gr8ness of Jesus! But then is that wrong??

I had joined a bible study group here at IIT madras.. and luved reading both the testaments in my 2nd n 3rd yr of btech.. Sir... unfortunately (inpite of all wonderful things of bible!) the book has urged and inspired the followers to spread the name of jesus with the faith that he is the one and only relief.. the son of God.. Jesus!! And the teachers at the missionary and cathlic schools taught the very same! This is in their religion!!

And come on Sir ... You cant be blaming all the St Xaviers and St Anslems... or Stephens... Loyola colleges for having such high standards of excellence of education even if they teach one verse of bible a day!

My Mizo friend.. I talked with him after reading your statement.. wanted to get first hand information.. He studied in a church run school.. and is basically a hindu.. He is one of the best debators of IIT madras.. went to St Stephens Delhi for BSc Maths.. but then after one yr joined iit for mech engg.. He is more than happy to be a proud alumnus of his school!

Anyways... Sir I just got to know that you have helped many Jats in jobs and career ... I seriously respect and appreciate your gesture..!
But I am afraid as far as this RSS issue is concerned.. my views tend to differ!

I dont get the point... why you had to come with such a strong criticism against RSS...
Please pardon me if I were rude at any point in the post!

@ Vinod
Thanks accepted ... You doing MS or some job?

 

[bharatrattan]

Relegion and orthodoxy

Dear Vinod,
Do you not think religion itself is an orthodox concept? How successful have we been in separating these two tenets is revealed if you see its operation in a country like US. The Church in Southern states has recently been supported by political parties to promulgate laws that would make abortion illegal (even if the pregnancy is unwanted.). Theoretically we assume a developed country to have checks that should prohibit such mischief, but it humiliatingly fails to achieve this in year 2006.

One of the most important issue religion has come across is fundamentalism. This is the end point at which a doctrine insulates itself from rational discussion. Religion stops growing at that point and stagnates, the way it has in Islamic counties. The strength of faith which primarily is meant to enlighten individuals, is ironically employed to blind masses. There has been ample evidence about the way RSS miscreants have tried to punish individual expression in our country, which challenges or pinpoints the fallibility of traditional Indian value system. The alarming thing is that religion is very important for Indians, which has been misused for committing government sponsored crimes against Muslims in Gujarat and Mumbai. The trading communities in Rajasthan and Gujarat are dead against Muslims, which seem to have economic reasoning than any other thing. In Mumbai, Muslims have a good reputation as honest traders. Because of business rivalry the Hindu businessman, like Jains sponsor activities against Muslims. We still have memories of Babri Masjid discourses channeled by Jain TV. In US these days, they operate Hindu and Sanskrit Unions, which shows the real secular face of India.

Our identity is embedded in religion and religion is embedded in our identity. Most average Indians have red threaded rituals starting early in life, which deters them from questioning the overall functioning of organizations like RSS. It is good that now we have a threatening opposition to Congress, which has made politics more competitive than it earlier was. Nevertheless we must be wary of its unholy appetite to raise useless issue. These issues are meant to remain in news. It is not unusual that Jatlanders support RSS, some do not show understanding, and others have already invested on Khaki Chaddis that they would die to save its tearing seams. Not only Jatlanders, but the state of Gujarat re-elected Modi Government after they were pleased by Godhara massacre.


Salman Rushdie recently expressed his grief over the rise of Hindu fundamentalism in India. He said Hinduism to be the only scholarly religion which encourages rational approach in its unadulterated form. It is different from Christianity and Islam, which basically are dogmatic.The recent acquisition of its functioning by RSS is one crucial step in making it anti-Muslim but Islamic in Nature.
For people who might be interested in watching his interview with Deepa Mehta over the release of Water, below is the hyperlink on Google video.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6349762904637312687&q=salman+rushdie



Jats should strictly stay away from such fanatic doctrines which could recruit their raw enthusiasm to accomplish ulterior political goals in the name of religion.

(I wish well read people had shown guts to challenge the ground beneath their feet, instead of chutzpah against seniors putting effort to make Jats aware of modern ideas.)
Regards,
Bharat

 

[manuvesh]

hi i am new member ,i am completly agree with Dr. birbal,

these guys (RSS)have not done anything for the country.all the times they used to talk abt Dr.hedgevar,i can not recall any significant contribution of them in anyways.their only one point agenda is to promote the business community and upper caste(they thinks that only brahmins and banya makes upper cast)anyway sir good observation . f

I have known RSS as the strongest anti-Jat force in Rajasthan for the past 55 years. But, more than being anti-Jat, I have found these people to be cowardly, liars, and cheats. Although they talk of nationalism, I have not known any of them to join armed forces to sacrifice their life for the country,
where in Jhunjhunu district, almost every Jat family has members who sacrificed their life for the country.

Essentially, these people are generally petty goonda types who superficially do some good deeds as described by some members for public relations purposes. In recent years, the organization has been used for massive fund raising purposes by senior goondas like Pramod Mahajan.

On the specific story of the one of the brightest Jat young man, Sanwat Singh, who was stabbed to death by one of the closest associate of Vajpayee, Mr. Virendra Saklecha (later Chief Minister of Madhya Pradesh) and several RSS goondas on January 31, 1948, is a matter of court record. A case was lodged in Jhunjhunu against these people, but in those days there was not much justice for Jats. For further refernce to this, read "Shekhawati mein Swatantrata Aandolan Ka Itihas," by Mohan Singh.

In a strange twist of politics, when the Jan Sangh people realized that they have to broaden their party beyond RSS, the BJP was formed where some Jats also joined it. One of the current BJP MP from Churu district in Rajasthan is a Jat, Mr. Ram Singh, and he was a class mate of my wife in Ramgargh, Shekhawati, and my wife always describes him as a brave fighter against RSS goondas in Ramgarh. Those people who support RSS should talk to this BJP Member of Parliament.

Further to this political twist, although some Jats are in BJP, RSS people do not vote for Jat BJP candidates. In an attempt to defeat Mr. Sisram Ola, the current Jhunjhunu MP, and cabinet minister, the BJP put a Jat candidate, Mrs. Santosh Ahlawat against him. But, all the RSS people voted against the Jat BJP candidate and Mr. Ola was reelected. In Jhunjhunu, assembly seat, the BJP put up a Jat, Mrs. Sumitra Singh (current speaker of Rajasthan), and the RSS cadre made demonstrations against her but she won on Muslim and Jat votes.

Just remember that even in the time of the most anti-Hindu and cruelest of Muslim, Aurangzeb, some Hindus occupied high positions. Also, after the recent earthquake in Kashmir, the terrorist groups were most active in humanitarian activities. Does that make them decent people?

I am not interested in changing opinions of any narrow minded, selfish people, who look at their own interests in helping a common enemy of a community, but at least know your facts.

 

[raj2rif]

Vinod,

I am very disappointed that you are not trying to understand my arguments. First,let me start by taking you in a completely different direction. In my class in IIT, I had many classmates from Catholic Church run schools in India. These were all fine gentlemen and most are still in touch with me through our class group.

Dear Members,
An interesting discussion. I have myself studied for few years in one of the Sanatan Dharm School. I found that school like any other school. I remember once some one told me about Shakah. I did go there once. The next day the guy who took me to Shakha tried to force me to attend it every day by telling me that if I went once, I have to come every day. I just told him to buzz off else I would break his legs. He never returned to me and that is probably I never went to attend Shaka

That apart. I have seen a good high school coming up in front of me "Pt. Deen Dayal Upadhyaya School" at Kanpur. I must say, most student of this school did very well in the board exam. I was told that was run by RSS.


The point I am trying to raise is, what happened in 1948, when Virendra Saklecha killed a Jat young person, can not be made in to a rule that entire RSS cadre is bad. People are talking about BJP being bad. BJP came into being only after break up of "Janata Party in 1979. The same BJP was aplauded when it supported the Janta Party and even merged with it. We are talking about the wealth Mr. Mahajan has amassed I guess, there are many with similar bank balance including our own Om Prakash Chautala. I don't think Chautala ever went to RSS or inherited entire property from his parents or earned by legitimate means.

The fact of matter is that in all political parties we have these so called "Dadas" who become leaders and the second crop called the cadre. Cadres and Dadas of any party are similar. Exceptions are every where and Congress or BJP are no different. What has bothered me on this discussion is that we are branding a particular organization about which either we may not be knowing all the details, as bad or terrorist organization. While leaving out others who may be doing the similar things but are not commenting upon them either we don't know about them or have affiliation with them. How about youth wing of all other political parties. Most of these organizations do have these so called "Dadas" and do have criminal records. Each one of them have some one who might have stabbed some one to death (may be shot dead as we have advanced from the age of knife to revolver).

Why the Dada's being very few in numbers in any organization become the leader? Do they have better leadership skills for getting the support of others? If voting is confidential, then I don't think one can force some one to vote for him/her. And if some one gets forced for whatever the reason may be, then he / she should not complain that he/she is being ruled/ led by these Dadas'.

Regarding Education provided by these organizations. Probably I am not the one to comment upon RSS as I attended only one meeting. I think it is more of brain washing people then education. But that is being done every where. You go to any congress meeting, they had been talking about Indira Ji, Rajeev Ji and now Sonia Ji. If RSS people talk about Hegdewar then what is wrong?
I personally feel that we must not divide the community on the basis of race, religion, or a political organization, be it RSS, Congress or one of us.

Truely speaking, I did not get the point being put forward on this therad. All that I have understood is that RSS is a Terrorist Organization like LeT, and is anti Jat and thus we all should hate it. It further went to prove that since BJP cadre comes from RSS we must hate that too. I personally feel that hatered is not good for any thing. People are wise enough to make their choices. All organizations have good and bad sides, let us be fair and discuss both sides on any organization or person.

 

[ratananmol]

I disagree; the point is that BJP and the right wing is not what they claim..ie their advertisement of being the forerunner of Hindu culture, uprightness and patriotism is sheer farce...if we go into the genesis of regional parties or leaders like lalu they are what they claim....they represent their regions and regional interests which is of course not true for chautala and sons.
The display of senstitivity against BJP and affiliates is based on the fact they can make Jinnah secular to get votes and are doing the same to jats...they neither stand for hindus nor jats..their true interest is power...let's be clear on this...
If a harit pradesh comes into being it would be the most prosperous state in India in per capita terms..do we care any more abt this except when Ajit Singh sings this song near elections; and because the focus of our polity has been hijacked by the right wing we no longer care about the economics of regional growth and real issues...we are going into a sad state of fanaticism and intolerance...

Vinod,

I am very disappointed that you are not trying to understand my arguments. First,let me start by taking you in a completely different direction. In my class in IIT, I had many classmates from Catholic Church run schools in India. These were all fine gentlemen and most are still in touch with me through our class group.

Dear Members,
An interesting discussion. I have myself studied for few years in one of the Sanatan Dharm School. I found that school like any other school. I remember once some one told me about Shakah. I did go there once. The next day the guy who took me to Shakha tried to force me to attend it every day by telling me that if I went once, I have to come every day. I just told him to buzz off else I would break his legs. He never returned to me and that is probably I never went to attend Shaka

That apart. I have seen a good high school coming up in front of me "Pt. Deen Dayal Upadhyaya School" at Kanpur. I must say, most student of this school did very well in the board exam. I was told that was run by RSS.


The point I am trying to raise is, what happened in 1948, when Virendra Saklecha killed a Jat young person, can not be made in to a rule that entire RSS cadre is bad. People are talking about BJP being bad. BJP came into being only after break up of "Janata Party in 1979. The same BJP was aplauded when it supported the Janta Party and even merged with it. We are talking about the wealth Mr. Mahajan has amassed I guess, there are many with similar bank balance including our own Om Prakash Chautala. I don't think Chautala ever went to RSS or inherited entire property from his parents or earned by legitimate means.

The fact of matter is that in all political parties we have these so called "Dadas" who become leaders and the second crop called the cadre. Cadres and Dadas of any party are similar. Exceptions are every where and Congress or BJP are no different. What has bothered me on this discussion is that we are branding a particular organization about which either we may not be knowing all the details, as bad or terrorist organization. While leaving out others who may be doing the similar things but are not commenting upon them either we don't know about them or have affiliation with them. How about youth wing of all other political parties. Most of these organizations do have these so called "Dadas" and do have criminal records. Each one of them have some one who might have stabbed some one to death (may be shot dead as we have advanced from the age of knife to revolver).

Why the Dada's being very few in numbers in any organization become the leader? Do they have better leadership skills for getting the support of others? If voting is confidential, then I don't think one can force some one to vote for him/her. And if some one gets forced for whatever the reason may be, then he / she should not complain that he/she is being ruled/ led by these Dadas'.

Regarding Education provided by these organizations. Probably I am not the one to comment upon RSS as I attended only one meeting. I think it is more of brain washing people then education. But that is being done every where. You go to any congress meeting, they had been talking about Indira Ji, Rajeev Ji and now Sonia Ji. If RSS people talk about Hegdewar then what is wrong?
I personally feel that we must not divide the community on the basis of race, religion, or a political organization, be it RSS, Congress or one of us.

Truely speaking, I did not get the point being put forward on this therad. All that I have understood is that RSS is a Terrorist Organization like LeT, and is anti Jat and thus we all should hate it. It further went to prove that since BJP cadre comes from RSS we must hate that too. I personally feel that hatered is not good for any thing. People are wise enough to make their choices. All organizations have good and bad sides, let us be fair and discuss both sides on any organization or person.

 

[raj2rif]

I disagree; the point is that BJP and the right wing is not what they claim..ie their advertisement of being the forerunner of Hindu culture, uprightness and patriotism is sheer farce...if we go into the genesis of regional parties or leaders like lalu they are what they claim....they represent their regions and regional interests which is of course not true for chautala and sons.
The display of senstitivity against BJP and affiliates is based on the fact they can make Jinnah secular to get votes and are doing the same to jats...they neither stand for hindus nor jats..their true interest is power...let's be clear on this...
If a harit pradesh comes into being it would be the most prosperous state in India in per capita terms..do we care any more abt this except when Ajit Singh sings this song near elections; and because the focus of our polity has been hijacked by the right wing we no longer care about the economics of regional growth and real issues...we are going into a sad state of fanaticism and intolerance...

Dear Anmol,

And which is the party that is what it claims to be. Including the regional parties. It is all power game. The only thing is that the "Grass just looks greener on the otherside of the hill". Every single party National or regional has one single agenda and that is to either remain in power or get to the power. For achieving this, whether you make Jinna secular or Subhash Bose a communist really does not matter.

 

[ratananmol]

Dear Tewathia ji:
I will meet you at the picnic and we can continue the discussion but let me state i am a very big Lalu fan;because of both right and wrong reasons: he is funny and extremely talented. Some trivial achievements: he turned around the fortunes of the Indian railways..something he claimed could be done and hence prevented our prime minster from privatisation..something that would have been inevitable (not that anything is wrong with privatisation per se).More than that he is secular and undobtedly has turned the fortunes of Yadavs in his home state over his 15 year rle..something we will keep craving from the likes of Ajit Singh. No new irrigation projects have been undertaken in western UP since independence and the entire revenue is diverted from the west to rest of UP..isn't it a serious problem..i will leave it there...

I disagree; the point is that BJP and the right wing is not what they claim..ie their advertisement of being the forerunner of Hindu culture, uprightness and patriotism is sheer farce...if we go into the genesis of regional parties or leaders like lalu they are what they claim....they represent their regions and regional interests which is of course not true for chautala and sons.
The display of senstitivity against BJP and affiliates is based on the fact they can make Jinnah secular to get votes and are doing the same to jats...they neither stand for hindus nor jats..their true interest is power...let's be clear on this...
If a harit pradesh comes into being it would be the most prosperous state in India in per capita terms..do we care any more abt this except when Ajit Singh sings this song near elections; and because the focus of our polity has been hijacked by the right wing we no longer care about the economics of regional growth and real issues...we are going into a sad state of fanaticism and intolerance...

Dear Anmol,

And which is the party that is what it claims to be. Including the regional parties. It is all power game. The only thing is that the "Grass just looks greener on the otherside of the hill". Every single party National or regional has one single agenda and that is to either remain in power or get to the power. For achieving this, whether you make Jinna secular or Subhash Bose a communist really does not matter.

 

[positivelook]

Dear Birbal jee

It seems that ur saying that RSS and BJP are totally against Jats than how come we have so many Jat leaders in BJP i rekon more than congress. I dont know abt the past but in present i have never seen any such things from RSS which shows that they are against Jats. Even in Haryana they have SHAKHAs running in almost all districts and even jats are attending these. I dont have anything related to that murder but one point which i can raise here is that KYa kabhee kisi congressi ne yah kisi aur party ke member ne kabhee kisi Jat ka Murder nahin kiya. I think i have pointed towards my opinion.

Rk sir
How can u say that BJP is totally against jats. Even vasundhra raje is CM of Rajasthan she comes from BJP and married to a jat family. Sahib singh verma, Vikram Verma , Kishan singh sangwan alll comes from Jat community who are well known leaders in Jat.

Abhimanyu Phougat

 

[positivelook]

I think Naresh Mehta have given a very balanced answer on this thread. Even Col. Tevathia have summarized few things very well. So i dont have much to write down here after the replies of these people.

Abhimanyu Phougat