The true nature of Jan Lok Pal Bill Movement

[virj]

The talks, movements, dharna on the street is a part of democracy. The talks in your elected gove about lokpal is happening due to this democracy on the streets. People talk a lot about democracy but forget the true meaning. Everyone can raise voice, organise public and force the govt through demonstrations to debate on something or to pass something.

Lot of democratic English law ( a basic source of this democracy) were enacted like this as well.

The only difference is probably 'Bhook hadtal' nothing much. The truth is that Govt is scared of him, bhook hadtal is just his one of the tools.

 

[skarmveer]

Aaj Hee akhbaar mein padha kee 1968 say lokpal bananey kee koshich chal rahi hai or ye mahanubhav aajtak nahi bana paye easa kaya kaaran tha....sab jaantey hai jab in kee mansa thee nahi hogi to ye keu banaingey. Aab bhee log keh rahey ye jo bhee bana rahey hai bananey do or try karo kab tak ...jab aaj dikhai dey raha hai kee ismein khamiyan hai to unhey theek keu nahi kiya ja raha.....keu CBI sarkar key under mein hee rahigee....Kapil Sibbal ney kal kaha hai kee sarkar salarey deti hai isliye uskey under mein hee to rahegee.....kitney sudh vichar hai lokpal banaey walon key or fir bhee kaha ja raha hai kee ye ek sakhat lokpal banayeingey.....CBI ka abhi kaya haal ho raha hai kisee sey chhipa nahi hai...ita galat istemal or fir bhee usey aajadi say kaam nahi karney deingey...wah..bhai..wah....

Aabhi Ravinder Sura bhai ney likha hai kee Raja, kanemori, Sukhram, aadi per to bagair lokpal key hee karyvahi ho rahi hai to Bhai jee bataogey kee aaj tak kitney logon ko saja hui hai is kanoon key dawara.

Easa kaya hai Jan Lokpal mein jo galat hai iskee baat sakar keu nahi karti...jab wo sahi hai to keu corruption itney unchey lebel tak pahunch gaya....

Duniya mein har vayvastha mein check karney key liye bahut say estar per log neukat hotey hai...jab eak office hee sirf clarko per nahi chal sakta to ye desh sirf in gadhon key bharosy hamesh key liye nahi chhoda ja sakta, 64 saal say inpar hee to chod rakha tha ab inkey upar koi baithaney kee baat hai to inkey pet mein dar ho raha hai.

 

[anilsangwan]

If someone thinks that lokpal will have ABSOLUTE POWERS and will become TANASHAH..... please note that Powers of Govt will still remain.... But only for development and deciding the policies and not to use CBI against opposition to settle scores............

Ofcourse, Lokpal can not come and ask PM or FM to control the Inflation or increase defence budget or start new rail routes........this will be done by govt........ (See govt has lot to do...........).


Pls dont try to confuse other members here by saying that Lokpal will have absolute powers and hence will be corrupted.....

 

[rajpaldular]

हमारे लोकतंत्र के ठेकेदार (विषैले सर्प) ना जाने क्यों बार-बार जनलोकपाल को एक नेवले के रूप में देख रहे हैं, यदि ऐसा नहीं है, तो इतना हंगामा क्यों?​

 

[rohittewatia]

Lokpal & Lokayukta bill introduced by the ruling govt. is laying the foundation stone of an ineffective lokpal. Why do they want to have reservation in the members of the Lokpal? What has religion got to do with the corruption and how these reserved category people would help in imparting a impartial justice? Casteism should have been kept out. However, the congress did followed the "Divide n Rule Policy" they inherited from their masters. The ruling govt. does not wants to give any power to the bill at all. The elected govt. is part & parcel of corruption, which is the sole reason why they do not want to contribute to a strong law. In our country, democracy exists only in papers. The present govt. is corrupt only due to the absolute power. Their ministers feel free to squander the national wealth to their kith & kin with nobody even daring to question.

Where does it says in the Lokpal Bill (Team Anna Draft) that lokpal members would enjoy the status of MP's n Ministers. There are safeguards in the Janlokpal to take action upon frivolous complaints. If the govt. was so serious to curb corruption, why did they not improvise upon the janlokpal bill instead of producing a much inferior version of the bill. The present govt. enjoyed their power for almost more than 50 years. If they want to imply, that they are the ones who are selected by the public, then Why have they not thought of a similar thing from the very beginning? Instead of the Team Anna, they should have initiated this process.

The least they can do is to remove the reservation clause from the Bill.

 

[deepgill]

This is absolute rubbish from Ashok Tanwar. Our current politicians are inefficient, corrupt and this includes both Congress and BJP. Congress is one of the most corrupt party in India and they don't want to be accountable to anyone and keep looting India as they are doing since independence. They want to keep hiding behind consipirecy theories to divert public attention instead of passing a strong and effective lokpal. Lokpal they presented in parliament is absolute joke. On one side most of the politicians admit that corruption is hurting India and we need to combat it and on other side they bring such a week lokpal bill full of government's control. Without investigation power there is no need of lokpal and no need of wasting public money and time.

Congress has used all the dirty tricks to divert public attention since August. They are not discussing about how to make Lokpal effective instead they are busy in mudslinging like Anna is RSS agent etc. etc. I think for India a strong lokpal is important not Anna or team Anna, so why congress wasting time on attacking anna. This shows they are dishonest and not willing to fight corruption. Government never presented their views regarding their lokpal instead they were busy in attacking team Anna. They never made anybody aware why their lokpal is strong and not team Anna's whereas I always found them busy in conspiracy theories and dirty tricks.

Enough of this democratically elected government and parliament is supreme. Parliament is only supreme if we have honest members in it and not current lot. Most of the parliamentarians are corrupt and criminals. They want stay in the power and for that they are dividing our people on the name of religion, caste and what not. Congress is doing everything to appease minorities and BJP to appease Hindus but in real they haven't done anything for them. They want to keep our public uneducated so that they can easily manipulate them during voting. In my view their is no democracy in India, we elect our members for five years and they sit in a close room and make bills which favour them and big corporates and not poor people of India.

I don't understand how strong lokpal will be more powerful than parliament. According to team Anna's bill, Lokpal will be accountable to supreme court if lokpal will be corrupt. Lokpal is not going to make laws in India and Lokpal will only come into picture if there is case of corruption. Lokpal has no power other than corruption cases. If our so called democratic elected parliamentarians or public servants would not indulge in corruption then lokpal has to sit idle.

Some people says team Anna is playing politics, i don't understand what's wrong in that. So do you guys think it's only the right of Rahul gandhi, Chutala's, bishnoi's, Badal's, Advani and many more to be in politics. We have already seen all the current politicians and how they work and their thinking process and how they destroying our country. All of them are lethargic, corrupt, unaccountable and ineffective. They are following same ideologies they used to follow 30 years ago, which is not feasible in current age. We need fresh ideologies and ideas to keep moving India to world power. Most of us here are happy to criticize Team Anna for one reason or another but are not willing to do anything on ground. Hats off to team Anna for the courage they have shown to fight against the Mafia and goons.

Ravinder sura bhai is saying that team anna election lad le tho un ne apni aukat ka pata lag jaga. Bhai mere, everybody knows how elections are fought in India. Elections are fought on the name of religion and caste and not on development. We are very selfish and only see our benefits before voting and don't care about India. You are saying Arvind kejriwal is baniya, so what if he is baniya. He is more gutsy than most of the jats and he has proved it during this agitation.

Anybody supporting government on this issue is biggest hypocrite like the government itself. Team Anna is demanding accountability from politicians, government servants and judiciary, what's wrong in that. Everybody should be accountable and everybody should be equal according to our constitution be it chaprasi or prime minister and then we will see India developing. Right now there is no justice in India, all the laws are for poor and rich can do anything without any punishment. Last time I voted for Congress but this time no way I will be voting for them. But problem is that I dont know whom to vote for this time because BJP is equally corrupt, Chutala equally corrupt and bishnoi equally corrupt. Most of the politicians are corrupt and we surely need electrol reforms so that we will have better candidate to choose from.

Regards

 

[vikasgulia]

हमारे लोकतंत्र के ठेकेदार (विषैले सर्प) ना जाने क्यों बार-बार जनलोकपाल को एक नेवले के रूप में देख रहे हैं, यदि ऐसा नहीं है, तो इतना हंगामा क्यों?​

एक दम भिन्नास कर देने वाला डाइलोग मारा है१ बोले तो भाई एक दम भयंकर डाइलोग१ This is the crux of the matter.

 

[vikasgulia]

What has religion got to do with the corruption and how these reserved category people would help in imparting a impartial justice? Casteism should have been kept out. However, the congress did followed the "Divide n Rule Policy" they inherited from their masters. The present govt. is corrupt only due to the absolute power.
The least they can do is to remove the reservation clause from the Bill.

Reservation is like opium. एक बार किसी को खिला दी तो किसी काम का नहीं रहता है१ जो चाहे करवा लो फ़ेर१
किसी को रिजर्वेशन की अफीम, तो किसी को लोन वेवर की१ किसी की थाली में दो रोटी डाल दो, जिंदगी फिर आस में आपके सामने ही हाथ फैलाएगा१ ठाट से राज करो, पीढ़ी दर पीढ़ी१
सब कुछ दो ..मछली दो. लेकिन कभी मछली पकड़नी मत्त सिखाओ, क्यूंकि जिस दिन अपने पैरों पे खडा हो गया तो तेरे हाथ से गया१ फिर तेरा क्या होगा रे कालिया१

 

[rameshlakra]

I totally agree with Anil. Please understand that Anna and his team are all true patriotic people. Politicians have their own vested interest and what they speak has no substance. They are known to speak nonsense and need not be taken seriously.

Kiran Bedi, Arvind Kejriwal, Bhushans, Kumar Vishwas and other distinguished Team Anna members --- - Even If they have political ambition - what is wrong with that?? At least they are first doing something better for this country and then in return if they come and ask for our votes... whats wrong? At least better than current MPs and MLAs who first take the votes and then repeat the history of "doing nothing".

Lokpal alone can not get rid of ill fate of this country. It will stop corruption. But the corrupt politics will be cured only when corrupt people like Laloo Yadav, Mulayam Singh Yadav, Sharad Yadav, Sharad Pawar, A Raja, Karunanidhi Khandaan including Kanimori, Maran Bandhus and so many more dumbos will lose elctions everytime. Poor Manmohan doesnt fight elections anyways!



And that can happen only with strong candidates fighting against them.

Today India has to decide if it wants to see people like Lalooo Yadav in politics or people like Dr Kiran Bedi --- Sibbal or Bhushan..........and Kejriwal or A Raja........

Let us raise above the partyline and support the cause.!!!


PS: I have named corrupt politicians across diff parties... Congressis pls dont take it otherwise.

 

[abhikrana]

Such threads undermine the pious nature of such movements

With all due respect, threads like these are a great disservice to pious movements like the one initiated and carried forward by Anna Hazare.

The all pervasiveness of corruption in this country at all levels is all too evident to and felt by everyone.

Why did not all those Anna bashers raise the corruption issue before Anna took up the issue. And when this issue was taken up by Anna, they were all too eager to oppose him lock stock and barrel, leaving no stone unturned to tarnish the image of Anna and his team members. These very detractors of anti-corruption movement went into overdrive and came out with conspiracy theories of concealed and veiled support from BJP, foreign hand (the US, and even Pakistan).


There is no MIDDLE PATH as far as the fight against corruption is concerned. Either you are corrupt or you are not corrupt. There is no middle way or path. I am not surprised that the Corrupt Congressmen and their supporters have taken to cheap tricks.

As far as RSS is concerned, though I am not a member of RSS, I admire the organisation and the cause for what it stands. They are a truly nationalist and patriotic party unlike SIMI with which it is equated by the pseudo-sickularists (pseudo secularists). Congress has been successful in its campaign to portray RSS in a bad light (something akin to an invective/abuse). As it is, congress with its experience of over 100 years in corruption, dynastic rule, communalism (Muslim appeasement), etc. etc. is very good in media management with Rahul Baba having dinner in the dalit Kalawati's home.

Be ready for a civil war now on religious lines. The Congress has already sown the seeds for this. It has already issued a notification in the official gazette reserving (TO START WITH) 4.5% reservation to muslims in all universities, IITs, IIMs, AIIMS, etc.

God save our country. And we are still coming out with threads and posts which put forward the 'out of the world' views of the psychotic people like Digvijay, Tanwar, Laloo, etc. etc.

 

[upendersingh]

It is very unfortunate that Anna and his team members are also behaving like Congress' appeasement policy. Before starting their unsuccessful anshan this time they had to appease the Muslims assuring them that they don't support BJP or RSS etc. One member of Team Anna Mr. Bhushan was beaten some time back because he wanted Kashmir to be a free nation. Kiran Bedi was also found involved in some corrupt act. So, where does the credibility remains of such Team Anna?
I like Anna and I don't have any disliking for this Lokpal too, but its all seems just waste of time. Anna seems to have started his movement too late. Old age is proving a hurdle in his way. This time his failure is looking equivalent to the failure of Baba Ramdev. That is the difference between Gandhi and Anna. Gandhi led movements had strong effect and finally he succeeded in what he wanted, to send the Britishers back. Anna has a lot to do to prove the effect of his age long hard and austere life.

 

[anilsangwan]

Bhai, that is why Anna always asks youth of this country to support him as he is growing old. Of course, he doesnt have ambition to become PM of India like Rahul Gandhi urf Bhondu Yuvraj of Congress........ He can just guide the youth to take it over..........rest we have to see what we want to see in future - corrupt India OR better India.


Thankfully, Anna is old, else congress chamchaz would have labeled him as aspiring PM.... Or PM in waiting........

It is very unfortunate that Anna and his team members are also behaving like Congress' appeasement policy. Before starting their unsuccessful anshan this time they had to appease the Muslims assuring them that they don't support BJP or RSS etc. One member of Team Anna Mr. Bhushan was beaten some time back because he wanted Kashmir to be a free nation. Kiran Bedi was also found involved in some corrupt act. So, where does the credibility remains of such Team Anna?
I like Anna and I don't have any disliking for this Lokpal too, but its all seems just waste of time. Anna seems to have started his movement too late. Old age is proving a hurdle in his way. This time his failure is looking equivalent to the failure of Baba Ramdev. That is the difference between Gandhi and Anna. Gandhi led movements had strong effect and finally he succeeded in what he wanted, to send the Britishers back. Anna has a lot to do to prove the effect of his age long hard and austere life.

 

[vikasgulia]

Is there any Party really fighting for Strong Lokpal? Let's Checkout?

While, most of the channel headlines are busy talking about Govt strength in Rajya Sabha; how Anna Hazare supporters are dwindling; and how the only respite that this country would have had was to make Lokpal "Constitutional" (it's different case that govt lokpal is Pomeranian , will it make a difference if we name thisPOMERANIAN as TIGER? By naming it TIGER, it will not become a German shepherd, Isn't it so?); let's see what principal opposition has to say about the Govt Bill.

There is a clever attempt in most media to avoid discussion on the fact that without an investigation and prosecution wing, Lokpal is virtually a dud. Let's ponder and record what Arun jaitely said in RS, lest the congress sympathizers claim later on that NO PARTY did enough to pass a strong lokpal.


http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/l...bha-highlights-of-arun-jaitleys-speech-161747

 

[rajpaldular]

श्री अरुण जेटली ने आज (दिनांक २९.१२.२०११) राज्यसभा में भाजपा का रुख स्पष्ट करते हुए कहा कि "सरकार एक मजबूत लोकपाल बिल पेश करे जिस में सरकार का कोई हस्तपेक्ष ना हो और दखलंदाजी ना हो तो हम भी उसे समर्थन (सपोर्ट) करने के लिए और संवैधानिक दर्जा देने के लिए भी तैयार है."

उन्होंने बड़े गौर से पूरे कानून पर प्रकाश डाला और सिद्ध कर दिया कि कांग्रेस सरकार एक ऐसा लोकपाल लाना चाहती है जो बिना धार की तलवार है, जो बिना गोली की बन्दूक है.​

 

[spdeshwal]

While, most of the channel headlines are busy talking about Govt strength in Rajya Sabha; how Anna Hazare supporters are dwindling; and how the only respite that this country would have had was to make Lokpal "Constitutional" (it's different case that govt lokpal is Pomeranian , will it make a difference if we name thisPOMERANIAN as TIGER? By naming it TIGER, it will not become a German shepherd, Isn't it so?); let's see what principal opposition has to say about the Govt Bill.

There is a clever attempt in most media to avoid discussion on the fact that without an investigation and prosecution wing, Lokpal is virtually a dud. Let's ponder and record what Arun jaitely said in RS, lest the congress sympathizers claim later on that NO PARTY did enough to pass a strong lokpal.


http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/l...bha-highlights-of-arun-jaitleys-speech-161747

Vikash

Considering the recent happenings in and outside parliament, the current Lokpal Bill should go through the Rajya Sabha! At least a begining could be made! We all know that the current bill is not the ideal or perfect but a begining has been made after waiting for 43 years! As Manu Singhvi said in Rajya Sabha, " a good bill is better than an illusive perfect". Hope BJP also would help this through Rjya Sabha. Amendments can always be brought in future.
As for Anna ji and his team are concerned, they have done their best and hope they would keep working for a better bill. Even the current Lokpal bill is the result of their efforts only! For their selfless efforts, I feel like qouting these lines of our own hero from his book, In quest of the last victory.
At the best you can only have good intentions. Whether the end result would be good or not or what the results eventually would be, is not in your hand."----Navin Gulia

 

[arvindc]

According to a report published in the Tribune, Chandigarh, Monday, December 26, 2011:

"the All India Congress Committee Secretary and Sirsa MP Dr. Ashok Tanwar, sees a move to destabilise India and its economy by certain forces under the garb of the movement in the name of Jan Lok Pal Bill".

Is it so?

To get some clarity, may I ask Dr Rajpal Singh ji that what made him think that the above statement has even a little bit of value and is worth a discussion?

If the statement is totally nonsense, then was it the speaker or issuing authority, of the statement, which gave it enough worth to be discussed amongst even two educated people?

As per me, I could not find any logic or substance, and the statement has no positive value.

 

[singhvp]

There is a great saying from the great revolutionary - Bhagat Singh "we must fight for 16 Annas (unit of currency at that time). If the British Govt. agrees to give 2 Annas, take that and put into your pocket. Keep fighting for the remaining 14 Annas. Bhagat Singh's approach was very pragmatic and the groups opposing the Lok Pal bill under debate must follow that approach.​

 

[arvindc]

Vikash

Considering the recent happenings in and outside parliament, the current Lokpal Bill should go through the Rajya Sabha! At least a begining could be made! We all know that the current bill is not the ideal or perfect but a begining has been made after waiting for 43 years! As Manu Singhvi said in Rajya Sabha, " a good bill is better than an illusive perfect". Hope BJP also would help this through Rjya Sabha. Amendments can always be brought in future.
As for Anna ji and his team are concerned, they have done their best and hope they would keep working for a better bill. Even the current Lokpal bill is the result of their efforts only! For their selfless efforts, I feel like qouting these lines of our own hero from his book, In quest of the last victory.
At the best you can only have good intentions. Whether the end result would be good or not or what the results eventually would be, is not in your hand."----Navin Gulia

Yes, amendments can be always be brought in future and this is true even for the 'Jan lokpal bill'. So why does not the current regime pass the "Jan lokpal bill" and bring the amendments latter?

The government version of the bill does not have strength in the basic structure to support strong amendments. इसकी तो नीव ही खराब है| If this bill is passed, it will require twice the effort of enacting a strong bill. One for dismantling and removing the garbage then for enacting the proper one.

 

[vikasgulia]

There is a great saying from the great revolutionary - Bhagat Singh "we must fight for 16 Annas (unit of currency at that time). If the British Govt. agrees to give 2 Annas, take that and put into your pocket. Keep fighting for the remaining 14 Annas. Bhagat Singh's approach was very pragmatic and the groups opposing the Lok Pal bill under debate must follow that approach.​

अर जै वो दो आने खोटे हों तो? और देण आले अँगरेज़ काले हों तो?, भगत सिंह ने नहीं सोची थी की इसा भी होगा, नहीं तो शहीदी की कसम, आज भगत सिंह भी बोलते की इससे तो गौरे ही ठीक थे !

Quoting again from a previous note:

"Let us first pass a preliminary version of the bill: Surprisingly, some among the educated class have started to believe in this myth. It is important to realize that a strong foundation for such a law is a must to begin with in order for it to be refined in the future. Secondly, here is no greater evidence than this long drawn out struggle for Lokpal bill to justify the need for us to get it right the first time."

 

[arvindc]

There is a great saying from the great revolutionary - Bhagat Singh "we must fight for 16 Annas (unit of currency at that time). If the British Govt. agrees to give 2 Annas, take that and put into your pocket. Keep fighting for the remaining 14 Annas. Bhagat Singh's approach was very pragmatic and the groups opposing the Lok Pal bill under debate must follow that approach.​

Correct, however, in this case, the government is giving us 2 Annas, but is indirectly also taxing us with 4 Annas.

The corrupt in the government, know it very well that once this movement finishes it may take be another 100 yrs for a new movement like this. So the government wants us to see only the 2 Annas that it is giving and no the 4 Annas which it is taking away through continued corruption.