Those guilty of "Within Gotra" marriage should be ostrasized by JAT's... Yes or No ?

[brahmtewatia]

you didn't got my point. i am questioning ostracizing/हुक्का पानी बंद (both same) has been our tradition or practice ?... nd the difference btwn tradition's nd practice's

Both are same. ostracizing : has a broder meaning. हुक्का पानी बंद - is more specific, in context of jatland.

 

[rakeshsehrawat]

Practice


noun

1. रिवाज
2. प्रथा
3. सीमा - शुल्क
4. आदत
5. परिपाटी
6. प्रचलन
7. चरित्र

Custom


noun

1. अभ्यास
2. प्रथा
3. कार्य
4. अमल
5. व्यवसाय
6. क्रिया
7. मुहावरा
8. सेवन

verb

1. अभ्यास करना
2. साधना
3. जीविका चलाना
4. उद्यम करना
5. मांजना

Tradition
noun

1. परंपरा
2. रिवाज
3. प्रथा
4. रूढ़ि
5. परिपाटी
6. लीक

 

[ravichaudhary]

members may wish to comment on :

1) How in today's mobile society do you ostracize someone from Jat society?

Earlier- Hookah Pani Band, meant no cooperation from the rest of the village, making survival impossible with the same lifestyle

Is this possible today?
Ravi Chaudhary.

 

[rakeshsehrawat]

members may wish to comment on :

1) How in today's mobile society do you ostracize someone from Jat society?

Earlier- Hookah Pani Band, meant no cooperation from the rest of the village, making survival impossible with the same lifestyle

Is this possible today?
Ravi Chaudhary.

This is still possible in villages .In cities people don't care about such things.If someone did this and run away from village then he himself is ostracized.

 

[ravichaudhary]

This is still possible in villages .In cities people don't care about such things.If someone did this and run away from village then he himself is ostracized.

Jats live in cities too.

What is the effect of ostracization in cities?

Ravi Chaudhary

 

[mukeshkumar007]

Gotra is a unified common parentage social organization spread over in various states. This parentage may be of thousands of years old. Its affects, social code of conduct and behavior remains fresh and alive so long people take pride in their parentage.

The media lays stress on individual freedom of the marriage in respective relation even the marriage in same gotra but media forget the society generated from common parentage is also struggling to maintain the purity of genomes. Therefore “Sagotra” identifies itself with “Sahpind” mentioned in the Manu Smriti. Hindu marriage act avoids ‘SahPind’ marriage and is silent on “Sahgotra”marriage but to my mind ‘sahgotra’ and ‘sahpind’ are synonyms to each other, may be they are separate by hundreds of generation, in that case our social code of conduct based on ‘Manu Smriti’ allows such marriages after completion of ‘Sahpind/Sahgotra’ cycle of hundred generation as by the time our genomes could have changed. Sahgotra is a genetic map with variable degree of genomes.

Keeping the above scientific view of marriage in the Hindu society, some youth who don’t have the knowledge as described above may indulge in marriages which are incestuous which bound to result into genetic disorder in their coming generation. The Khap has reason and pronounce their verdict amounting to death sentences but in my view panchants shouldn’t reach to the conclusion while other options are available which are
a) dissolve the marriage
b) outcast the offender
c) Impose heavy financial punishment
d) exile them

But one can understand the desperation of Panchayat as they consider it as stigma on the honor of their community. The reasons attributed for such marriages can be

a) lack of family value and pride
b) modern education where in moral ethics don’t have any place
c) double standard behavior of parents in family
d) Standard of the family and social values has reduced drastically.
e) Western education and culture & media is to be blamed (but in western societies too there are number of societies who follow the genetic social order strictly.

Indian media is semi literate and therefore arguments on such sensitive issue don’t stand to the core of the issue whereas the effect is very powerful and thereby the influence on the masses is very wrong.

Society changes from time to time. Same gotra marriages are a kind of resurgence/revolution against the strict code of conduct but this is only due to as youth don’t understand the fine aspect and benefit of the social rules established thousands of years earlier. The youth of today failed to appreciate the purity of their values but remain misguided and confused by half digested knowledge published in various articles. Therefore in my point of view, it is the time that wise man of the society/community must discuss the social disorder and challenges taking place in the society. Efforts should be made to highlight the importance of social code of conducts. We must discourage sahgotra/sahpind marriages instead should allow the youth to go for inter cast marriage in Hindu society.

 

[rakeshsehrawat]

Jats live in cities too.

What is the effect of ostracization in cities?

Ravi Chaudhary

Jats live in cities too.

What is the effect of ostracization in cities?

Ravi Chaudhary

Dear Sir

Jats live in cities too.
What is the effect of ostracization in cities?
Ravi Chaudhary

Dear Sir
Ostracization is from society. In cities there is already no society. People get togeather from a sector or apartments of same building and call themselves is society that doesn't mean society. Society is circle which comes to you in times of joy(marriege or some other function) or Sorrow(Someone's death or accident). In villages it was like that in good or bad times of a person people were togeather.After introduction of TV the culture starts changing and people started locking themselves in a room in front of BUDHU BAKSA watching fashionable witch like females. But still in villages people still support each other whatever may be the tension in between people support in bad times atleast.
Now something that i have seen in city. An old neighbour died whose flat was adjescent to mine.I was batchlor at that time and i came to know about incident on his Satarhvi. People played music they danced between these days and i was also one of them. As soon as i came to know we stopped music if it were in village the scene would have been different.
Another incident of Australia a man got divorce from a lady they seprated and started living away.They had a daughter. After few years it happened that father and daughter meet i a night club and they fall in love. They decided to marry and as they started inviting people they came to know that they are father and daughter. Still they got married but his friends and relatives were spit on him.
Society is everywhere may be having differet mind sets and moral values.
Anyone who is jat and came to know about such incident like marriege in same gotra will critisize it irrespective of city or village.Sehar mein hukka pani hota bhi nahi hai.Pani ek rapiye ka gilas ya 15 rapiye ki botal mile hai hukke ki ek kagach ki nalki ban gayee starting from 3-4 rupees.
Jats gaon se hi hain city mein bas gaye to kya hua aaj bhi jyadatar apne dah sanskar ke liye apne gaon ki keh ke jate hain.Aaj aap amrika mein bas gaye to aap amriki thode ho jaoge?

 

[samarkadian]

heh! Rakesh , You have elaborated just 3-4 ways of explaining that sky is blue out of atleast 15. Go on!

 

[hpmalikdaboda]

Though as per the traditions in our villages there cannot be any answer other than 'YES' and any sane person cannot think of justifying marriage in the same gotra. My vote is also for yes. One aspect to be noted in this regard is that the world is changing at a very fast pace. If this pace continues or accelerates then after 30-40 years a large percentage of persons in the metro cities would not be able to tell their gotra. However, I feel that time is the best judge and so called forward citizens residing in metro cities may think that gotra has no role to play in a person's life.

 

[ssindhu]

science can't override personal freedom. anything which doesn't harm a third person is not harmful for the society and is harmful only for the individuials. and if the individuals are ok with carrying on the harms, the society shouldn't intervene. believe me hooda nad navin jindal won't kill their kids if they marry within the same caste if they chose to. they will only disown like bhajanlal disowned his son, taht too for political reasons. people should but politicain's thoughts. same gotra marriages happen in many other communities like punjabi, south india. what problems you see in their offsprings?

 

[meerasansanwal]

science can't override personal freedom. anything which doesn't harm a third person is not harmful for the society and is harmful only for the individuials. and if the individuals are ok with carrying on the harms, the society shouldn't intervene. believe me hooda nad navin jindal won't kill their kids if they marry within the same caste if they chose to. they will only disown like bhajanlal disowned his son, taht too for political reasons. people should but politicain's thoughts. same gotra marriages happen in many other communities like punjabi, south india. what problems you see in their offsprings?

seema is dere any limit to personal freedom or is it just without boundaries?

 

[ssindhu]

no limit to personal freedom until and unless it affects other people significantly. tell me what's wrong in it? if my neigbour (or my own kid whn i have one lol) marries in same gotra, how does it hram me or anybody else.

 

[arvindc]

no limit to personal freedom until and unless it affects other people significantly. tell me what's wrong in it? if my neigbour (or my own kid whn i have one lol) marries in same gotra, how does it hram me or anybody else.

Teenagers are too young and ignorant to understand the significance of social norms and rules. I suggest, watch 'the Jungle Book - Mowgli" again. May be you will get some understanding.

Nature also has some rules..
Rules are not formed to curb freedom, rather they formed to protect society and enjoy life (within bounds).

 

[rakeshsehrawat]

no limit to personal freedom until and unless it affects other people significantly. tell me what's wrong in it? if my neigbour (or my own kid whn i have one lol) marries in same gotra, how does it hram me or anybody else.

Seema ji kyon do ghara ka naas karo ho apne ladke aur ladki ki hi shadi karwa do do ghara ki jagah ek ghar mein e sadh jagi
And if you are not married you do it

I think they are talking about you
http://www.jatland.com/forums/showthread.php?22478-Is-Seema-ji-being-banned-justified

 

[jitendershooda]

same gotra marriages happen in many other communities like punjabi, south india. what problems you see in their offsprings?

http://www.krepublishers.com/02-Jou...03-Garewal/IJHG-03-4-217-219-2003-Garewal.pdf

Thalassemia is the most commonly inherited
disorder worldwide. In India,​

​

​

​

β- thalassemia
affects different ethnic and geographical groups,
with prevalence of 2-14% in different regions in
an ICMR study (1993). In Punjab the prevalence
reported by Sukumaran and Masters was 6.5%
(1974). The population of Punjab is approximately
15-18 million and is heterogeneous in its caste
structure. Marriages most often take place within
the same caste and it is important to know the
prevalence of β-thalassemia trait amongst the
different castes as well as the distribution of the
various mutations amongst the different castes
for proper counseling and prenatal diagnosis.
We have studied the prevalence of β-thalassemia
and the β-gene mutations in Punjabis belonging
to different castes. This data is useful for planning
cost effective screening programmes as well as
providing genetic counseling and prenatal​

diagnosis.

 

[sunillathwal]

no limit to personal freedom until and unless it affects other people significantly. tell me what's wrong in it? if my neigbour (or my own kid whn i have one lol) marries in same gotra, how does it hram me or anybody else.

I agree.. nothing wrong. Social norms are crap and so is the Indian Penal Code.

Eg: Person X killed person Y.

> X is happy (for the obvious reason).
> Y can not be unhappy (as he is dead).
> Incident does not affect me, you or neighbors (so they are nonchalant at best)

So, we have: 1 very happy and satisfied person (that would be X) + One unresponsive person (that would be Y) + nonchalant mob (we the people).

Net result: Happiness.

Conclusion: Murdering should be allowed as it bring happiness; also anything that happens between two person is their personal business (you, me and society should not interfere).


P. S. In the above example, for the sake of simplification, I have assumed that person Y is a single, unmarried, loner and the only child to his parents who btw are dead... means no string attached.

 

[vijay]

I agree.. nothing wrong. Social norms are crap and so is the Indian Penal Code.

Eg: Person X killed person Y.

> X is happy (for the obvious reason).
> Y can not be unhappy (as he is dead).
> Incident does not affect me, you or neighbors (so they are nonchalant at best)

So, we have: 1 very happy and satisfied person (that would be X) + One unresponsive person (that would be Y) + nonchalant mob (we the people).

Net result: Happiness.

Conclusion: Murdering should be allowed as it bring happiness; also anything that happens between two person is their personal business (you, me and society should not interfere).


P. S. In the above example, for the sake of simplification, I have assumed that person Y is a single, unmarried, loner and the only child to his parents who btw are dead... means no string attached.

So, as per your mathematical analysis, murdering someone is necessary to remain Happy. I propose another analytical algorithm to remain happy.

Eg. Person X do not kills Y.

> X is happy ( because he didn't committed a crime )
> Y is happy ( because he is still surviving )
> Incident affects all of us and so all are happy that nobody got killed.

Net Result : Happiness

PS : I assume that all the people involed are married, having families, many siblings and relatives ....... means all strings attached.


Make some sense ?

 

[rakeshsehrawat]

So, as per your mathematical analysis, murdering someone is necessary to remain Happy. I propose another analytical algorithm to remain happy.

Eg. Person X do not kills Y.

> X is happy ( because he didn't committed a crime )
> Y is happy ( because he is still surviving )
> Incident affects all of us and so all are happy that nobody got killed.

Net Result : Happiness

PS : I assume that all the people involed are married, having families, many siblings and relatives ....... means all strings attached.


Make some sense ?

Yes Vijay it makes some sense The thing he want to prove was different but he may have choosen wrong example.
Please answer this question I Stand nude infront of your house is there any problem?

 

[sunillathwal]

So, as per your mathematical analysis, murdering someone is necessary to remain Happy. I propose another analytical algorithm to remain happy.

Eg. Person X do not kills Y.

> X is happy ( because he didn't committed a crime )
> Y is happy ( because he is still surviving )
> Incident affects all of us and so all are happy that nobody got killed.

Net Result : Happiness

PS : I assume that all the people involed are married, having families, many siblings and relatives ....... means all strings attached.


Make some sense ?

No, it does not make much sense to me!!

My last post was a reply to the seema´s post regarding the personal freedom and socity norms. Though I was indulging in what people call "reductio ad absurdum" but my point was sincere.

Anyway, continuing in same vein: my conclusion stated ´.... should be allowed.´ NOT the ´is a must for happiness...´. i.e, one of the options not the ONLY option!
I mean: yes, not-murdering bring happiness and (as we proved earlier) so does murdering. Hence, putting someone in jail for his/her act of achieving some happiness (read murder) seems total absurd to me.

Let me reprahse it: ¨Murdering should NOT be criticized/ frowned upon/ discouraged as it does NOT harm anybody else or society in large. What happens between two people is their personal bussiness.¨

[..and of course this conclusion is solely derived from the statement that marrying in same village should be allowed, should NOT be subjected to any criticisim as it does NOT harm anybody else or society in large rather gives happiness to the couple.]

 

[vijay]

Yes Vijay it makes some sense The thing he want to prove was different but he may have choosen wrong example.
Please answer this question I Stand nude infront of your house is there any problem?

Rakesh, if Sunil have chosen wrong example then your example is totally absurd one.