Untouchability in villages in Haryana

[shamshermalik]

Dear Jatland members,

While going through the news search article...It was kind of shocking to read the stats and situation. Yes untouchability is still there in our villages but not to that extent as depicted in the article and atleast I can say that those statistics donot fit for my village at least.

So I was thinking to have feed back from members on this issue. Please come up with your views on the issue and do you think that still we need to do a lot to illiminate this dividing evil from the society.

Donot we treat Humans like humans.

Regards,
Shamsher

 

[kharub]

Mate can you please post the link for the article .......

In my view and from what i have seen in my village ... jat villages do not practice untouchability and stuff like that ,... our neighbours in the village are sunars and dooms and one chamar family and they are invited to all public ceremonies and are equal citizens ... their elders come and play cards in my grandfathers baithak (guestroom) ........ and they are all served tea and hukka and food at times too .......

so i think this is all propaganda .......... Jats have always lived in a very secular and just way ... and have never treated other castes badly (except in case they cross the deceny line) .........

This is more a problem in the Rajasthan and Up and other parts of India ...... Haryana is a pretty chilled place ..... and Jats great people to live with

 

[dahiyars]

Untouchability

Dear Dr Shamsher

In one of the meetings in my village the Sarpanch was invited, She was a lady and belonged to Dalit section. We were sitting on chairs but she sat on the floor and no body objected to ecept me and after a great persuation she was made to sit on chair. There is no common well from where all castes are drinking water in my village.In another survey of a school in Bhali village it was found that the children of dalits were not given Tats( Farash) to sit and treated badly by the teachers. Untouchability do exist. Intercaste marriages are opposed by Khap Panchayats even now.

R.S.Dahiya

 

[chhillar]

Mate can you please post the link for the article .......

In my view and from what i have seen in my village ... jat villages do not practice untouchability and stuff like that ,... our neighbours in the village are sunars and dooms and one chamar family and they are invited to all public ceremonies and are equal citizens ... their elders come and play cards in my grandfathers baithak (guestroom) ........ and they are all served tea and hukka and food at times too .......

so i think this is all propaganda .......... Jats have always lived in a very secular and just way ... and have never treated other castes badly (except in case they cross the deceny line) .........

This is more a problem in the Rajasthan and Up and other parts of India ...... Haryana is a pretty chilled place ..... and Jats great people to live with

Bhi Kharab, kisse baat ka na bera ho te uske bare mein expert opinion deni zaroori he? hariyane ke jat and no Untouchability?!!!??!!?? Very Euphemistic!!!! You sound very knowledgeable about jat history some times from your posts but you surprised me today, go get some ground realities too mere bhai!

Thare gaam ke choode jattan ki kooi pe te paani bhar le sein ke?

Untouchabilityis unfortunately still there in full swing in Haryana or any other place in India for that matter more so in villages, in big cities it doesn't matter anymore I guess

 

[narenderkharb]

Untochability

I think VJ has given the ground reality not the other way round.

Proof for that, I would like to give from a field closely seen by you ,Amit.You might have sen jats not only eating ,mixing but staying in dalits houces during elections.I don't think you would have seen any jat or other person in Haryana taking bath if touched by some dalit as may be the case in some other state.
And about well there is an internal mental barrier that prevents choode or others to have water from wells.Have you seen or heard in these days any fight in any village where jats have objected to or fought for water as you suggest,than why defame jats for a thing that doesn't exist.
The incidence of an elected lady to sit on ground show again the same mental blocade not any untouchability.

As far as marriges are concerned sarvkhaps just ask to follow certain social traditions that include not only intercastmarriges but intera also.So that is not a matter concerning untouchability.Not to talk of others I can give exmple of so many comrades jats that have married their sisters to chamars and other dalits which I think is very well known to dahiya ji.

So let us not present a wrong picture of our state contrary to ground reality.

VJ was very much right to ask the source of that information as most of such articles are written by baised writers.

 

[chhillar]

Chalo...if it makes you happy...
there is no jaat paat in the minds of Jats of Haryana...dalits to special favorites hein jaton ke...Naya Goan, Gohane arr Jhajjar wali ghatna to aik pyaar ka chattu he bas...
harijan kade niche nahin bethte gaam mein, beth bhee gaye to jaat upar beetha dete hein khaat pe
sarv khaap chamaron se shaadi ke rule bhi banati he...
jat comrades would marry their sisters to chamars just to make a point...
gaam mein kade bhi koi harijan jaa ke jaaton/upper class ki kooi te pani le ke aa sake he, koi peetai wali baat nahin

ALSO: Haryane ke jaat na keval secular hein ye educated, peaceful, intelligent, arya samaji, equal rights for women, nasha mukt bhi sein....

bass eeb to theek se?

 

[narenderkharb]

Little confused.

Was the incidents at gohana and jhajjar due to untouchability.
Amit ji I think the reason was different.

As far as sitting on charpai ,I think You want to highlight social uneqality that is different from untouchability.Any way these days dalits have much more confidence.

Regarding water I didn't hear any dispute may be you can tell if any.

Amit last ki lines paddh kar maza aaa gaya chae jutthi hi sahi

 

[chhillar]

untouchability or social uneqality the root cuase is looking down upon a section, class, caste, race, color etc...

bhai saab, apne yahan to gali bhi hein harijanon ke naam se...

dheadh, gittal (chamar)
kamin (low caste)
dhanak
choorda
etc.
When you go on maariage lunch party (jiman waar), harijans are made sit away

I have seen people pouring butter milk/milk to these harijans from a distance

Harijans have separate choupals

I have witnessed myself harijan being beaten by 'JATS' for going to an upper class well

 

[poonam]

An amusing read...

Chalo...if it makes you happy...
there is no jaat paat in the minds of Jats of Haryana...dalits to special favorites hein jaton ke...Naya Goan, Gohane arr Jhajjar wali ghatna to aik pyaar ka chattu he bas...
harijan kade niche nahin bethte gaam mein, beth bhee gaye to jaat upar beetha dete hein khaat pe
sarv khaap chamaron se shaadi ke rule bhi banati he...
jat comrades would marry their sisters to chamars just to make a point...
gaam mein kade bhi koi harijan jaa ke jaaton/upper class ki kooi te pani le ke aa sake he, koi peetai wali baat nahin

ALSO: Haryane ke jaat na keval secular hein ye educated, peaceful, intelligent, arya samaji, equal rights for women, nasha mukt bhi sein....

bass eeb to theek se?

Amit, honestly , you made me laugh heartily if not hysterically...
Haan, eeb theek sae..

Though I do not qualify to comment on the scenario of untouchability in our villages back home, nonetheless I guess Narender is right here. Looks like there is some confusion, we are confusing between untouchability and Caste issues, what do you think?

Based on whatever little exposure I have of systems existing in the rural(Haryana) sectors, I never came across any such incidents of extreme discrimination, the lower classes though are looked down upon for sure, but did not witness or heard any extreme act, need to take bath after having touched them by mistake, for instance. But at the same time, I do know that there were different wells to draw water from, for different castes, an evidence supporting more the existence of Caste discrimination which is very much there.

I still remember an incident from my childhood days. No clue if "dooms"(VJ mentioned in his post) belong to untouchables but what I remember was that once, we had this doom family (from my native village in Haryana) at our home (without any prior notice though... ) in hope to get some help (financial etc, since we belonged to a well to do family and residing in Delhi for years). I remember the conversation my parents had (though they were not very pleased, more because the way they had shown up suddenly.. ), but they were entertained and my folks did exhibit hospitality. I did not get an iota of impression that they are untouchables!!..

 

[dahiyarules]

If someone wants to practice untouchability, who are we to enforce "integration" on them. Let them live in their own world. Such things are not preached. They are realized. I trust people's wisdom on this one.

Actually I practice untaouchability. I prevent shaking hands with people at random, for the fear of germs. Unless i am sure they washed their hands with soap and water before shaking hands. Nothing wrong about it. I havent fallen sick in more than 6 years now. Not even a mild headache or stomach ache.

 

[poonam]

Well..

Actually I practice untaouchability. I prevent shaking hands with people at random, for the fear of germs. Unless i am sure they washed their hands with soap and water before shaking hands. Nothing wrong about it. I havent fallen sick in more than 6 years now. Not even a mild headache or stomach ache.

Ever heard of gloves! Try donning them instead of unwillingly practicing untouchability!..

 

[shamshermalik]

Ever heard of gloves! Try donning them instead of unwillingly practicing untouchability!..

Poonam then Dahiyaji will look like queen of Great Britain.....oh your comment made me laugh a lot..almost histarically.

------------------------------------

Dear all,

Now telling the situation at my village...but lets seprate intecast marriage from untoachability for sometime...as there are many cast which Jats donot think untouchable but donot like intercast marriage even there.

In my village I think with time this untouchability has decreased to lot of extent. I can recall when the lower cast worker used to bring their own utensils but thats not the seen now. They used to sit near the main door but thats not the scene now. they never used be allowed to sit on chair or charpai but now they are offered that. Jats never used to go eat in their kids marriages etc but now its not an exception. In college I had few friends who used to come to my house and stay there..my family new it but they never had any problem. In past we never used to give anything to lower cast people on Purnima and Amawashya but that is changing now.

As far the well is concerned then due to location I think they have one well near their locality and Jats have one near them..I think but not so sure that their is one well where almost all cast come to take water.

Yes in village schools the problem is not because of kids but because of teachers...I went to the school and just asked one of the teachers that why the result is so poor..he replied..'Doctor sahab yaahan Jatan ke balak to jyada aate nahin..ab kis ko padayen" Basically these teachers in most of the govt school donot want to teach...maximum are from same village and remain abscent and work in their fields during school time. Why there are not much Jat kids in Govt school these days because govt schol donot care about education..what the teachers care is the salary and how to escape to work in fields.

So I think compared to past the situation has improoved alot but yes it will take more time to vanish.

 

[prashantacmet]

i really wonder when i read the views of certain Jatlanders. Topic was abt untouchability & ppl are supporing here to intercaste marriage. I don't understand how the Jat ppl speak in favour of it. ?? .....
jaha tak untouchability ki baat hai.......it still exists... & will survive for years....... Koi chamar aake khaat pai na baothegga jaatoien ki.......chahe ussne chair kpai baitha denge.par khaat na millegi ussne........ To bhai VJKHARAB sahab.......... agar aapne apna hukka kissi chamar ya chudde ne piya diya.... TTo Gaam main to tharre hokke ke koi MUH bhi na laawe...... Chahe tum Haryana ke ho, ya Rajasthan ke, Ya UP ke.............. ar agar tunm kehte ho hamare gAAM main JaT-CHAMAR ek jagah baith ke hokka peete hai..to tu aapne Gaam ka naam bata de humme??.......But
ek baat hai Jats are more soft in comparison oF Brahmin, Rajputs...yeh jyada dhakosle nahi karte hai..........

 

[upender]

I am not aware of the current situation in my village regarding untouchability. While growing up it was very clear to me that segregation did exist.I was recently chatting up with a friend of mine who is a jat sikh and he was mentioning the positive changes happening in gurudwaras all over the world. For years it was always the jats who were given the rights to do paath and they were the first to eat at the langar but that seems to have changed over the past few years. The supposedly low caste sikhs or hindus can now eat and do paaths at the same time as jat sikhs....in my opinion it is a positive change. Situation in haryana in my belief (i might be wrong is not like what still exists in UP and Bihar).
Its high time that we included everyone... otherwise we will be left behind as the world progresses. Changes occur and hopefully they are for the betterment of all humanity.

We blame brahmins, punjabis and rajputs all the time....for our own weaknesses as well. It high time a proud race as ours stop doing this and make sure that we become progressive in our thinking and provide justice to all.

gehlot

 

[prashantacmet]

Gehlot sahab, we don't discuss untouchability in UP & Bihar.. .. we r trying to know the situation in jatland(West UP,Rajasthan ,Haryana). i frequently visit to my village & have a sound knowledge of social situation of west UP.Caste discrimination still exists in West UP. As far as Jats of UP & Haryana are concerned, Jats of Haryana r more fanatic & traditional(Please no offend, i have just taken down my belief).So if anyone says that untouchability is completely removed from Haryana.. it's only his illusion . he is not completely aware abt rural scenario in Haryana...he need to do some homework........ I say one thing insistly ,Jats of every place are having a softer attitude for lower castes ppl in comparison of other upper caste ppl.................

I am not aware of the current situation in my village regarding untouchability. While growing up it was very clear to me that segregation did exist.I was recently chatting up with a friend of mine who is a jat sikh and he was mentioning the positive changes happening in gurudwaras all over the world. For years it was always the jats who were given the rights to do paath and they were the first to eat at the langar but that seems to have changed over the past few years. The supposedly low caste sikhs or hindus can now eat and do paaths at the same time as jat sikhs....in my opinion it is a positive change. Situation in haryana in my belief (i might be wrong is not like what still exists in UP and Bihar).
Its high time that we included everyone... otherwise we will be left behind as the world progresses. Changes occur and hopefully they are for the betterment of all humanity.

We blame brahmins, punjabis and rajputs all the time....for our own weaknesses as well. It high time a proud race as ours stop doing this and make sure that we become progressive in our thinking and provide justice to all.

gehlot

 

[kharub]

Dear all,

Now telling the situation at my village...but lets seprate intecast marriage from untoachability for sometime...as there are many cast which Jats donot think untouchable but donot like intercast marriage even there.

In my village I think with time this untouchability has decreased to lot of extent. I can recall when the lower cast worker used to bring their own utensils but thats not the seen now. They used to sit near the main door but thats not the scene now. they never used be allowed to sit on chair or charpai but now they are offered that. Jats never used to go eat in their kids marriages etc but now its not an exception. In college I had few friends who used to come to my house and stay there..my family new it but they never had any problem. In past we never used to give anything to lower cast people on Purnima and Amawashya but that is changing now.

Dr Malik ... inter-caste marriges and untouchability are two completely different things , they have nothing in common.
You live in the US and a lot fo other jats do as well , but they still look for brides in the Jat or the Indian community ...........

Does that mean you are practising untouchability against the white- Americans, the black-americans, the Chinese-Americans , the Lationos and the rest ?????????

I dont think so ....... its just sticking to your own traditions and culture ....... i am sure you mix well with all americans and have friends and consider them equal .. but you still choose to marry your own kind .......... and this is the difference between untouchability and not practising intercaste marrige .....

so dont associate the two together .............

Lower Castes get most respect and rights in Haryana compared to any other part of India .. and that is because Jats are a very understanding and secular lot ...

I know for a fact that whenever somebody from my village comes to Rohtak and need a place to stay at night, they come and stay at our place and are looked after well , just like family .. whether they be our Chamar neighbours, the sunars or the Dhanaks .....

Difference is not bad ,... and they are different form us ... but acknowleding the difference does not account to discrimination.

 

[dahiyars]

Untouchability

Dalits are treated as bonded labour in some parts of Haryana say Fatehabad and many cases of sexual harassement are reported. In Talao village of jhajhar there was a case of social injustice of extreme nature. The forms have changed, this is true.
R.S.Dahiya

 

[chhillar]

If someone wants to practice untouchability, who are we to enforce "integration" on them. Let them live in their own world. Such things are not preached. They are realized. I trust people's wisdom on this one.

Actually I practice untaouchability. I prevent shaking hands with people at random, for the fear of germs. Unless i am sure they washed their hands with soap and water before shaking hands. Nothing wrong about it. I havent fallen sick in more than 6 years now. Not even a mild headache or stomach ache.

I am sure you don't shake hands (you shake heads with'em) with govt. employees, politicians, pro govt. etc.

 

[kharub]

I guess we live in different Haryanas .......... my Haryana seems to be different than your Haryana .........or maybe Haryana is such a diverse place that the same people (Jats) act differently in different districts ...

 

[balrajsejwal]

jaat kabhi favour nahi karta untouchability ko,par jaat hone se superior hone ki feeling jaroor hoti hai, mere village mai sab chamaar, kumhaar etc saath bethte ar taash khelte hai, sirf lower cast ko jimanwaar mai nahi bulaate(accept nai).paunchi bandhai pe inte peese de hai,jo ghar aaja hai,saath chai peete hai, upper bethte hai.