what about intercaste marriage?

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Teh e thread ne revive karan ka rog aapne e katya se....:) ibb samajh mein aayi baat....na te aap latifa sunate arr na mein in vichara ne pad pad ke phukti :)
ibb mein safely keh deti hun ke mere pichchli post ke sole responsibility deshwal ji ki se....:D

arr woh bhai pareshaan kyun ban kar diya??

dndeswal said:
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Jatlanders had forgotten this thread after 7 November 2006.

On 27 December 2006, I posted my thread Jat – 36 Koum Ka Jamai !! (in humor section), giving a link and referring to this thread. It was a coincidence that on the same day, a news item appeared in The Tribune which I posted here in this thread (post No. 40) – without any comments. Now, it is a hot topic but I do not take the credit for this.

Ironically, the member who started this thread is shown as ‘banned’ at this moment (reasons not known to me). What poor Prashant Chaudhary might be feeling at this moment?

Is there a relationship between seriousness of ‘General Talk’ and kilki of 'humor' forum? Maybe so - by giving links or making references. Just guessing !! :) :)
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priti said:
Teh e thread ne revive karan ka rog aapne e katya se....:) ibb samajh mein aayi baat....na te aap latifa sunate arr na mein in vichara ne pad pad ke phukti :)
ibb mein safely keh deti hun ke mere pichchli post ke sole responsibility deshwal ji ki se....:D

arr woh bhai pareshaan kyun ban kar diya??
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कोई बात नहीं प्रीति - जहां भी रहो, सुखी रहो । मनुष्य एक सामाजिक प्राणी है, समाज में परिवर्तन भी होते आये हैं और हो रहे हैं, होते भी रहेंगे । हर जाति, हर गांव और देशों के रीति रिवाज अलग अलग हैं, पर आजकल globalisation का असर सभी जगह हो रहा है ।

इसलिए मैं अब भी यही लिख रहा हूं - No comments.
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Thank you for the wishes Deshwalji...par ji with all respect nyun jaroor boojhungi ki globalisation arr is topic mein kya relation hai...

dndeswal said:
कोई बात नहीं प्रीति - जहां भी रहो, सुखी रहो । मनुष्य एक सामाजिक प्राणी है, समाज में परिवर्तन भी होते आये हैं और हो रहे हैं, होते भी रहेंगे । हर जाति, हर गांव और देशों के रीति रिवाज अलग अलग हैं, पर आजकल globalisation का असर सभी जगह हो रहा है ।

इसलिए मैं अब भी यही लिख रहा हूं - No comments.
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very good question asked.
priti i agree with ur point of view regarding marriage.
marriage itself is important than any thing else .if they r compataible and happy together.who cares about the caste.ab husband to husband hi rahega:rolleyes: aur wife wife hi rahegi.:cool: agar wife punjabn ho bhi gyi to kya farak painda h.bachhe bhangra karna seekh jayenge.

priti said:
Can u enlighten us on what 'are' the 'jat things' to do?
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क्यो खाम्खां बेफ़िजुल कि बातो में समय नष्ट कर रहे हो? जिसको जाति के बाहर शादी करनी है वो करो जिसको नही करनी वो मत करो... यह जाटो का दुर्भाग्य है कि नैतिकता की परिभाषा ऎसी छोटी-छोटी रुढिवादि परंपराऔ और विचारो तक सीमित रह गयी है ।
 
thank you teacherji for reminding me again :p and summarizing the whole discussion in beautiful hindi words...can always count on you to get tapped on the knuckles :o
vinodks said:
क्यो खाम्खां बेफ़िजुल कि बातो में समय नष्ट कर रहे हो? जिसको जाति के बाहर शादी करनी है वो करो जिसको नही करनी वो मत करो... यह जाटो का दुर्भाग्य है कि नैतिकता की परिभाषा ऎसी छोटी-छोटी रुढिवादि परंपराऔ और विचारो तक सीमित रह गयी है ।
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INTER-CASTE MARRIAGE IS GOOD OR BAD, its personal opinion...

Ram Ram Jats and Jatnees..

NICE! Topic: Intercast Marriage, wo bhee JAATOON MAINE....:D KYA BAAT HAI.....

I dont mind marring a NON-JAT GIRL.......but my parents will OF-COURSE mind...... Maa khaatee hai "GHAR MAINE MAT GUSJAYAEE".... :)

As they value JAT culture, rules and regulations...... and I value NO BOUNDARIES*....

Sara kissa VALUES ka hai....and YES----VALUES DO CHANGE WITH TIME..... thats what I WANT TO SAY....

*= FOR the betterment of society, country and the world.
 
My thumbs up for you!!!!!

vinodks said:
क्यो खाम्खां बेफ़िजुल कि बातो में समय नष्ट कर रहे हो? जिसको जाति के बाहर शादी करनी है वो करो जिसको नही करनी वो मत करो... यह जाटो का दुर्भाग्य है कि नैतिकता की परिभाषा ऎसी छोटी-छोटी रुढिवादि परंपराऔ और विचारो तक सीमित रह गयी है ।
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Couldn't have agreed more with you Vinod!!! Precisely, totally with you!!..:)
 
priti said:
Dont get me wrong Vishwajeet, sorry for being sarcastic. But its really frustrating to read so many misgivings by people when they themselves haven't experienced it. When they claim that love marriages are less successful and such people change after getting married, they are selfish, living nightmares (ok, i'm exaggerating a little) and so on and so forth...where are the statistics to prove that this is the case,

The divorce rate in the West & rural India would give you a clear indication as to what works and what not

in my opinion, such cases get highlighted because they are love marriages in the first place (dialogues like 'aur karlo punjaban te byah'). And to be honest people who are strong enough to marry out of their own choice are also likely to stronger not to stay in bad marriages.

Yes absolutely right .....


I have an intercaste marriage and I come from a very conventional jat family...and believe me, it has been nothing but a pleasure for me and for my parents and none of my relatives (except the people who crib over falling rain) have changed their attitudes because they understand that its my choice and they care for me as much as I do for them. I admit you have go that extra mile to get everyone on side but that much you can do for having a life partner you want...

You have married a non-jat ....... you should not be on this site .. you are not a Jat anymore (Just Joking):D :D

I'm also not saying that love marriages are the best option, i agree it can definitely give you a lot of headache is not properly thought out. As I said before in this thread, if you have total conviction in one person then go ahead otherwise leave it to your parents.

My point is that having an inclusive approach does not mean you have to change entirely and that you do not remain a jat (which i understood from your last post). All my family, relatives (both sides), friends know me as a proud jat woman and having a partner from another community does not change that, I'm the ambassador of my community and I do not want to let it down by having a exclusionary approach. It is a part of my identity, attitude and language and it'll be an inheritance to our children.

But your children will also have a non-Jat half .. so will they be consideed Jats or feel Jat when their father is a non-Jat ... that is the point in question

This is just to give people the other side of the story...marriage is a very personal decision.

Now it is becoming a personal decision more and more ....... it used to be a social & family decision (about 30 years ago) ...

As for the macro level problem of sex ratio...this is an outcome of bad things being done in the past and present...there will be consequences...and tying the victim (the female) again in the shackles (as you suggested in a post that the guys can marry anybody of superior race they want but jat girls should only marry in the community because many of them have been killed in infancy thus less in number) to provide a solution to a crime that has been committed against her...its like punishing her all over again for being less in number...lol...now thats not fair...is it?

I never said superior caste ....... I said compatible ......... there is no superior or inferior .....

What I stated was a very theoratical approach ... didn't mean that this is what needs to be done ........ It was from a community prespective and a broad approach , not every theory can be applied for word in reality .. .. and and it is not fair , but the question is survival of the Quam and if we will start debating fairness now .. we will miss the bigger question as to what can be done now when there are not enough females ........ Yes in recent history we have been extremely unfair to the females in our community
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Now Priti Ji .......you having an intercast marriage does not make you any less Jat than me or anybody else here ...... one is born a Jat and one dies one..

But thats the question .. what is being a Jat ?? How are Jats different from other communities in their attitude ??
Is it just the customs & traditions or it is the gene pool ... that gives us that Jat attitude, confidence and paradigm

Please do not percieve my comments to be offensive or hostile , I am just jotting down my thoughts .... In the Indian family set-up or in the general Global family set-up ...

When a male and a female get married .......... the female takes on the males family name ...... she lives with his family , so even though she follows her own customs ... his customs dominate ...
So when they have kids ... the kids are alreday half- Jat & half-whatever ..... now there is already two conflicting identities ...... When the kids grow in that household , the Jat mother makes a lot of effort for them to understand and realise their Jat-half ....... but still they grow up in a whatever majority household and those are the traditions and customs that will hold importance .. in addition to their family name which will be non-Jat

Now the mother is undoubtedly a Jat ....... but the kids at best will call themselves .. half-Jat ........

The question is what happens to the next generation ....... in my humble view ... at best they will be half-jat .. or they will be non-Jats .....

This is why when a Jat guys marries a non-Jat girl ...... it is more easier for that family to be Jats in the future ........ its not a sexist point of view , just the reality considering the social set-up

And it is now with globalisation and western-styled liberation that individualism has taken preference over community ...... and I am there with you as well in that matter ... half the things I do are purely individual decisions ...... but thats the thing ....... this is a recent change ... its not how we have lived and evolved and a community since we became aware of our identity
 
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vinodks said:
क्यो खाम्खां बेफ़िजुल कि बातो में समय नष्ट कर रहे हो? जिसको जाति के बाहर शादी करनी है वो करो जिसको नही करनी वो मत करो... यह जाटो का दुर्भाग्य है कि नैतिकता की परिभाषा ऎसी छोटी-छोटी रुढिवादि परंपराऔ और विचारो तक सीमित रह गयी है ।
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Vinod Bhai Sahab, your contribution on Jat history is worth a gold medal ....and highly highly appreciated ........ I am big fan of your work

But if we do way with these "छोटी-छोटी रुढिवादि परंपराऔ" you will have nothing to write or research about in 50 years ........ because Jats will cease to exist ...

These "छोटी-छोटी रुढिवादि परंपराऔ" are what have kep us as a distinct ethnic group ... and this is why now you have a clear path and approach to look into and identify Jat History ... if we woudl have done away with such "छोटी-छोटी रुढिवादि परंपराऔ" say 500 years ago ...... you would have to get a new hobby now .... because there would be nothing distinctly Jat and thus nothing to look into and find out

These "छोटी-छोटी रुढिवादि परंपरा" are the only reason that Jats still exist .. otherwise it would just be Haryanvi, Punjabi, Rajasthani or Indian & Pakistani

This "दुर्भाग्य" is the very reason we have survived till date
 
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What is Jat ?

Is Jat an attitude or an ethnic group ........ every scholar had described Jats an a distinct ethnic group .......

Definition of Ethnic Group:

An ethnic group is a human population whose members identify with each other, usually on the basis of a presumed common genealogy or ancestry (Smith, 1986).

The term ethnic means of or pertaining to a group of people recognized as a class on the basis of certain distinctive characteristics such as religion, language, ancestry, culture or national origin.
- San Diego State University

As Jats have different religions, languages & nationalities ...... the common ancestory & traditions is what defines our ethnicity .......

And intercast marriage ...... specially when a females marries outside the group .... goes contrary to those very principles

My discussion is purely for scholarly and academic reasons and I have no belief in lynching or outcasting people who participate in any such practise ........ It is a personal choice that they make by over-stepping social rules ...... but I do however believe that it is not easy and in some cases not possible to count their future generations as Jats
 
priti said:
Dont get me wrong Vishwajeet, sorry for being sarcastic. But its really frustrating to read so many misgivings by people when they themselves haven't experienced it. When they claim that love marriages are less successful and such people change after getting married, they are selfish, living nightmares (ok, i'm exaggerating a little) and so on and so forth...where are the statistics to prove that this is the case, in my opinion, such cases get highlighted because they are love marriages in the first place (dialogues like 'aur karlo punjaban te byah'). And to be honest people who are strong enough to marry out of their own choice are also likely to stronger not to stay in bad marriages.

I have an intercaste marriage and I come from a very conventional jat family...and believe me, it has been nothing but a pleasure for me and for my parents and none of my relatives (except the people who crib over falling rain) have changed their attitudes because they understand that its my choice and they care for me as much as I do for them. I admit you have go that extra mile to get everyone on side but that much you can do for having a life partner you want...

I'm also not saying that love marriages are the best option, i agree it can definitely give you a lot of headache is not properly thought out. As I said before in this thread, if you have total conviction in one person then go ahead otherwise leave it to your parents.

My point is that having an inclusive approach does not mean you have to change entirely and that you do not remain a jat (which i understood from your last post). All my family, relatives (both sides), friends know me as a proud jat woman and having a partner from another community does not change that, I'm the ambassador of my community and I do not want to let it down by having a exclusionary approach. It is a part of my identity, attitude and language and it'll be an inheritance to our children.

This is just to give people the other side of the story...marriage is a very personal decision.

As for the macro level problem of sex ratio...this is an outcome of bad things being done in the past and present...there will be consequences...and tying the victim (the female) again in the shackles (as you suggested in a post that the guys can marry anybody of superior race they want but jat girls should only marry in the community because many of them have been killed in infancy thus less in number) to provide a solution to a crime that has been committed against her...its like punishing her all over again for being less in number...lol...now thats not fair...is it?
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well i have a question here....jat gurls who marry into non jat family do they remain technically/legally as jats???.....suppose a jat gurl from rajasthan marries into brahmins....does she still retain her right in govt jobs/educational insitituions as an OBC candidate??....or she loses it??....or for tht matter if she marries into SCs does she acquire the right to jobs/education under the SC quota??....justa curiosity...
 
very good question....I dont know the answer...

brainspeak said:
well i have a question here....jat gurls who marry into non jat family do they remain technically/legally as jats???.....suppose a jat gurl from rajasthan marries into brahmins....does she still retain her right in govt jobs/educational insitituions as an OBC candidate??....or she loses it??....or for tht matter if she marries into SCs does she acquire the right to jobs/education under the SC quota??....justa curiosity...
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There are other definitions of ethnicity too....including 'affiliation', 'porous boundaries', 'set of values' and 'traditions'...

Also, what is not mentioned in your definitions is whether the ancestry or race counts only as paternal...

Also, tell me why a person with a jat father (and mother from other community) be counted as a 'full-jat' and only a 'half-jat' in case of a jat mother? :confused: ...I know i'm asking an obvious question...but its something to think about...

I have a question...if jats are an ethnic group....what is their caste? and if somebody marries outside the community, is it inter-ethnic or inter-caste?

Also, the question of conflict....i find it similar to the discussion on whether you are no longer indian if you become a citizen of any other country....even the governments are recognizing dual citizenship:) ....


kharub said:
Is Jat an attitude or an ethnic group ........ every scholar had described Jats an a distinct ethnic group .......

Definition of Ethnic Group:

An ethnic group is a human population whose members identify with each other, usually on the basis of a presumed common genealogy or ancestry (Smith, 1986).

The term ethnic means of or pertaining to a group of people recognized as a class on the basis of certain distinctive characteristics such as religion, language, ancestry, culture or national origin.
- San Diego State University

As Jats have different religions, languages & nationalities ...... the common ancestory & traditions is what defines our ethnicity .......

And intercast marriage ...... specially when a females marries outside the group .... goes contrary to those very principles

My discussion is purely for scholarly and academic reasons and I have no belief in lynching or outcasting people who participate in any such practise ........ It is a personal choice that they make by over-stepping social rules ...... but I do however believe that it is not easy and in some cases not possible to count their future generations as Jats
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respected members ram ram,
dont you think intercast mariage is like as one(non jat) becomes a member of jatland or a jat becomes a member of like say anyotherland, lol
 
Dear all

Krishan bhagwan once told Yashomati that she is his real mother as she is one one who brought him up? So I think Individualism is much above a caste. If a Jat girl marries outside caste then does her so called 'Jat blood" is changed overnite, NO. She was a Jat and she remains a Jat. Its like once DND Sir explained on "humour" section that anything which contained a rural language(Jaatu bhasha) is a Jat Joke.

What Priti is doing to Jat community even after marrying into a non jat family is an eye opener for everyone (Jan Jagriti Stuff). Hats off to you Priti and your family, including your husband.

And to the so called "Naye-2 Musalman" of Jatlands, who are doing nothing then reciting "allah-2", its very easy to point out a finger at oneself but you forget that by doing it three of your own fingers are pointing at youself.

You have no right to decide about Jatism, and don't personalise your thoughts and don't think that you are the only one of saviour of Jats.

Remember you have to change with time otherwise time will demolish you.
 
Kharub bhai ji

Ram Ram

Mere bhai, aap konse jamane ki baatein kar rahe ho. Chalo let me try to answer you stuff.

To be a human is first thing to me and to be a Jat is a secondary thing.

First tell me, Are you married or not? If you are not then you don’t know anything about love and marriage and have no right to talk of something you don’t have any knowledge? If you are married then, Was it a love marriage with an Arab/Rajput etc or an arranged marriage? Because that way, we can understand your facts and reply accordingly.

First of all you gave example of “Jews”. I think its wrong to compare Jats and Jews, it would have been fine if you would have compare Jews with Hinduism.

“Judaism shares some of the characteristics of a nation, an ethnicity, a religion, and a culture, making the definition of who is a Jew vary slightly depending on whether a religious or national approach to identity is used. Generally, in modern secular usage, Jews include three groups: people who practice Judaism and have a Jewish ethnic background (sometimes including those who do not have strictly matrilineal descent), people without Jewish parents who have converted to Judaism; and those Jews who, while not practicing Judaism as a religion, still identify themselves as Jewish by virtue of their family's Jewish descent and their own cultural and historical identification with the Jewish people.
Historical definitions of Jewish identity have traditionally been based on Halakhic definitions of matrilineal descent, and halachic conversions. Historical definitions of who is a Jew date back to the codification of the oral tradition into the Babylonian Talmud.
Biblical interpretations of sections in the Tanach, such as Deuteronomy 7:1-5, by learned Jewish sages, is used as a warning against intermarriage between Jews and non Jews because "[the non-Jewish male spouse] will cause your child to turn away from Me and they will worship the gods of others." Leviticus 24:10 speaks of the son in a marriage between a Hebrew woman and an Egyptian man to be "of the community of Israel.", which contrasts with Ezra 10:2-3, where Israelites returning from Babylon, vowed to put aside their gentile wives and their children. Since the Haskalah, these halakhic interpretations of Jewish identity have been challenged.

Do something for community, start writing something like a “Bible” as above with a detail of DO’s and Don’ts to be Jat.

You said that love is an imported thing from the west. Dear brother, Love is the backbone or prerequisite of a successful marriage and if it’s already there, what is the harm. Yes but you have to make sure that its love and not an infatuation. And if it’s a thing of past then are you and me came in this world due to “Lust and not Love”.

Regarding Panchayati elections as true democratic, participate in one and see it yourself. If you think that Panchayat was justified in that one case then how come that couple get relief from the High court. Now don’t say that there has to be only Jats as the judges to deal with such cases.

Kharub bhai, we are not living in a primitive society where the decisions made by “Panchayat” which effects the personal life of a Jat individual goes unnoticed. They are subjected to evaluation by the society (not the Jat society, alone) and if all of us keep a mindset as you are portraying then time is not far ‘WHEN WE WILL BE LABELLED LIKE A PRIMITIVE TRIBE’.

Another answer I want from you what is your decision on the so called ‘honor killings’ of young lovers as reported in various parts of UP, some time ago. I think you will also justify that saying that

“Yes the decisions might seem unfair and irrational from a personal angle, they are very impotant form the social perspective as they set the future trends.

My view: - YES people doing it are really IMPOTANT

Regarding your example of driving and alchohal I think that decision regarding marrying and spending your life is entirely different from driving a car.

Jahan par apko koi cheej explain nahi karni aaye wahan par Westernisation or modernization ka thappa laga do Simple hai naa, Yah kisi bhi society ka example chep do jaisi ki hum logo ki to koi individuality hi nahi hai, Bhai ji aisi bhi socity hai jo polygamy ko support karti hai , inka matlab yeh nahi ki unka example lekar kal ko hum bhi shuru ho jaye.

Ab aa jao “Jat thing” par. Aap ne aajtak Jato ke upliftment ke liye kya groundwork kiya hai batane ka kasht karenge kya? Priti mam or bahut se log jo apke hisab se Jat nahi hai ya jinke bachche aadhe Jat hai who bahut kuch kar rahe hai Ground work par, aap apna bataye?


Ab main bhi wahi kar raha hu jo aap log karte ho, sab kuch keh kar 2/4 smily fek do……………………………….
My discussion is purely for scholarly and academic reasons.
 
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