What is the basis of our Moral Values?

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annch

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On almost every second thread in Jatland, we read about moral values. Is it following the religion or adhering to the customs that makes us moral? Or is it the values imparted by our elders? The meaning of the word "MORAL" has such wide connotations.
Per Merriam- Webster Online Dictionary, MORAL is
1 a: relating to principles of right and wrong in behavior : ethical <moral judgments>
b: expressing or teaching a conception of right behavior <a moral poem>
c: conforming to a standard of right behavior
d: sanctioned by or operative on one's conscience or ethical judgment <a moral obligation>
e: capable of right and wrong action <a moral agent>
2: probable though not proved : virtual <a moral certainty>
3: perceptual or psychological rather than tangible or practical in nature or effect <a moral victory> <moral support>
My moral values are dictated by right behaviour and right action. And right is "win-win" (borrowed from quote by Anilsd) for all involved in the situation.
So, what is the basis of your moral values that shapes your words, behaviour and actions?

(P.S.:If a thread of similar nature already exists in JL, do provide the reference, thank you)
 
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ITS ETERNAL QUESTION, WITH NO RIGHT ANSWER, NO RIGHT DEFINITION..
CHOOSE YOURS:

A) The opposite of "fun".

B) Morality is the way everyone else thinks we should be

C) Morality is the way we think everyone else should be

D) Something few people really speak about with much confidence any more, except when they're saying nobody should judge anybody.

E) Morality is a way that unhappy old folks enjoy making young folks unhappy too.

F) Whatever I do, or have done in the past, is what is "right" . . . and whatever you or anybody else does - or has done - that ticks me off, is "wrong."


G) Morality is a set of rules given by a higher authority; if you conform to them, you will be rewarded; if you don't conform to them, you will be punished.

H) "Who are you to judge me?" - It's something that inherently implies "judging" other people . . . and judging other people is immoral . . . so therefore, morality is . . . immoral.

I) An arbitrary set of rules which act as the glue of a community, a.k.a., a social contract where different parties, human or animal, agree on.
 
It is a very thoughtful question and I have searched for a answer but am still very uncertain for the FINAL answer. My youngest girl,27 now have asked me the same question million times and is always disappointed with my answers. In short and in a limited way I have explained to my children that as far as Jats are concerned the KARM is very important Dharm for them. Gita explains Karm .A universal application of Morality in all circumstances is difficult to spell out. Is any definiton of Morality which could be accepted by all in the world ? I do not know. I have lived in the USA for 44 years/30 in India and I can not say that I know what is universal basis or datum point for morality by which all human could agree.Please, let me know if you have reached some conclusions. Thanks for the question.
 
A very gud question anju ji :)

moral values are not build in a day ........this is a question of life time...
we learn from parents..friends .school,surroundings..books we read.experiences..Our moral decorum...is based on may be two aspects ...the religion which is the basis mostly in home when parents educate with the value system.Here religion serves as the guideline.Whereas when we learn moral values in school it has a secular approch.
i think moral values are not constant as well...they keep on changing as we grow.........but surely the basic ones still remains for ever
 
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moral values depands on our bhehavior ,nature and our own thinking ...................education does not matter in mostly children copy to their parents ,teachers and friends
we can see that yet people were not educated before some years bt they were more moral than today
anjoo said:
On almost every second thread in Jatland, we read about moral values. Is it following the religion or adhering to the customs that makes us moral? Or is it the values imparted by our elders? The meaning of the word "MORAL" has such wide connotations.
Per Merriam- Webster Online Dictionary, MORAL is
1 a: relating to principles of right and wrong in behavior : ethical <moral judgments>
b: expressing or teaching a conception of right behavior <a moral poem>
c: conforming to a standard of right behavior
d: sanctioned by or operative on one's conscience or ethical judgment <a moral obligation>
e: capable of right and wrong action <a moral agent>
2: probable though not proved : virtual <a moral certainty>
3: perceptual or psychological rather than tangible or practical in nature or effect <a moral victory> <moral support>
My moral values are dictated by right behaviour and right action. And right is "win-win" (borrowed from quote by Anilsd) for all involved in the situation.
So, what is the basis of your moral values that shapes your words, behaviour and actions?

(P.S.:If a thread of similar nature already exists in JL, do provide the reference, thank you)
Click to expand...
 
Morality have a long history since the evolution of Mankind. Though there is no perfect definiton of Morality but in general we, generally, assume that doing certain things which is appreciated by the mass can be considered as moral deeds.

In older times we used to live in the caves and circumstances were so tough to survive alone. The primary requirements were to stay, work and live together to survive. So, the basic human need was to trust and respect others. That trust and respect brought forward some actions or behaviour in certain cimstances which used to be termed as Moral Values.

Later, with the advencement of technology, when people became able to survive alone the importance or significance of moral values changed accordingly. People started practicing minimum set of moral values for their suvival.

Every human being knows that what is moralistic in a specific circumstance but most of the people manipulate the meaning of morality according to their thinking. Yes, the way of thinking can be considered as the basis of someone's moral values.

Sometimes we behave according to the moral values while some other times we manipulate the meaning of morality due to some specific benefits or gains. But, still that's morality from their point of views ( maybe modified or manipulated one )

We all have different viewpoints on RIGHT and WRONG things and we try to justify our every action as the RIGHT ones except a few abnormalities where we accept our wrong actions too. Same implies to morality, if we did something moralistic we claim we did it because we believe on moral values. While if we did something immoral ( everybody knows :)) we can claim that, with respect to the circumstances, whatever we did was moral by all means.
 
Thank you

Amit, Sumeet, Verma Sir, Manjeet, Anju Ji, Vijay,
Appreciate your valuable contribution to this discussion, thank you.
Regards
 
Anju I was just trying to lighten up the serious discussion here. Dont go by answer. The others know better. Flexibility is sort of same as convenience here. Prolly a little more in degree.
 
Sir,

Thank you for a candid post.
I am hoping that this thread would serve two purpose, as following
1) Readers would atleast ponder over "morality" or "moral values", if not contribute to the thread,
2) There are many members on JL who use term "moral values" (or rather lack of moral values) so often, with so much of conviction that I am hoping that this thread would give them an avenue to educate others.

The limited participation made one thing clear that morality is a matter of choice that guides our way of thinking, and translates to our action/ Karm.

Regards
sapverma said:
It is a very thoughtful question and I have searched for a answer but am still very uncertain for the FINAL answer. My youngest girl,27 now have asked me the same question million times and is always disappointed with my answers. In short and in a limited way I have explained to my children that as far as Jats are concerned the KARM is very important Dharm for them. Gita explains Karm .A universal application of Morality in all circumstances is difficult to spell out. Is any definiton of Morality which could be accepted by all in the world ? I do not know. I have lived in the USA for 44 years/30 in India and I can not say that I know what is universal basis or datum point for morality by which all human could agree.Please, let me know if you have reached some conclusions. Thanks for the question.
Click to expand...
 
Vijay,
As always, you provide an enriching background for better understanding of the concept, thank you.
Regards
vijay said:
Morality have a long history since the evolution of Mankind. Though there is no perfect definiton of Morality but in general we, generally, assume that doing certain things which is appreciated by the mass can be considered as moral deeds.

In older times we used to live in the caves and circumstances were so tough to survive alone. The primary requirements were to stay, work and live together to survive. So, the basic human need was to trust and respect others. That trust and respect brought forward some actions or behaviour in certain cimstances which used to be termed as Moral Values.

Later, with the advencement of technology, when people became able to survive alone the importance or significance of moral values changed accordingly. People started practicing minimum set of moral values for their suvival.

Every human being knows that what is moralistic in a specific circumstance but most of the people manipulate the meaning of morality according to their thinking. Yes, the way of thinking can be considered as the basis of someone's moral values.

Sometimes we behave according to the moral values while some other times we manipulate the meaning of morality due to some specific benefits or gains. But, still that's morality from their point of views ( maybe modified or manipulated one )

We all have different viewpoints on RIGHT and WRONG things and we try to justify our every action as the RIGHT ones except a few abnormalities where we accept our wrong actions too. Same implies to morality, if we did something moralistic we claim we did it because we believe on moral values. While if we did something immoral ( everybody knows :)) we can claim that, with respect to the circumstances, whatever we did was moral by all means.
Click to expand...
 
Manjeet,
True, education is not the sole source of our moral values. As Anju ji indicated in her post, the foundation is laid by our parents, and is built over the years through other means.
Regards
rocky0036 said:
moral values depands on our bhehavior ,nature and our own thinking ...................education does not matter in mostly children copy to their parents ,teachers and friends
we can see that yet people were not educated before some years bt they were more moral than today
Click to expand...
 
Amit,
Thanks for simple and concise definitions of moral values.
Regards
mittu said:
ITS ETERNAL QUESTION, WITH NO RIGHT ANSWER, NO RIGHT DEFINITION..
CHOOSE YOURS:

A) The opposite of "fun".

B) Morality is the way everyone else thinks we should be

C) Morality is the way we think everyone else should be

D) Something few people really speak about with much confidence any more, except when they're saying nobody should judge anybody.

E) Morality is a way that unhappy old folks enjoy making young folks unhappy too.

F) Whatever I do, or have done in the past, is what is "right" . . . and whatever you or anybody else does - or has done - that ticks me off, is "wrong."


G) Morality is a set of rules given by a higher authority; if you conform to them, you will be rewarded; if you don't conform to them, you will be punished.

H) "Who are you to judge me?" - It's something that inherently implies "judging" other people . . . and judging other people is immoral . . . so therefore, morality is . . . immoral.

I) An arbitrary set of rules which act as the glue of a community, a.k.a., a social contract where different parties, human or animal, agree on.
Click to expand...
 
anjoo said:
The limited participation made one thing clear that morality is a matter of choice that guides our way of thinking, and translates to our action/ Karm.
Click to expand...

Morality and way of thinking just compliment each other so beautifully that we hardly know whether it is morality which is guiding our way of thinking or our way of thinking is deciding our about moral values.

Honest people's morality guides their way of thinking. Normal human being come across a lot of dilemma when their way of thinking and morality having a good fight. There is nothing to say about the people whose morality depends upon their way of thinking.

I hope it is conclusive :).
 
:) How do we reach a conclusion without comments from the subject matter experts on "moral values" on JL?:D
vijay said:
Morality and way of thinking just compliment each other so beautifully that we hardly know whether it is morality which is guiding our way of thinking or our way of thinking is deciding our about moral values.

Honest people's morality guides their way of thinking. Normal human being come across a lot of dilemma when their way of thinking and morality having a good fight. There is nothing to say about the people whose morality depends upon their way of thinking.

I hope it is conclusive :).
Click to expand...
 
anjoo said:
:) How do we reach a conclusion without comments from the subject matter experts on "moral values" on JL?:D
Click to expand...

hahahaha .. that's tricky ... :D

I wonder even if 'subject matter experts' had browsed this thread ever ... forget about their responses here.

But yes, i am waiting for a couple of members for their responses. :)
 
anju, just to add more food to the thought(s)...

yudhisthir was asked by sh. krishna to speak a lie… "go to dronacharya nd inform him tht yr son is dead"… now because drona had a benediction tht unless he was shocked by the dead limbs of his son, he wouldn’t die. so he had to be shocked, but he wud not believe anybody except yudhisthir because he was known as vry honest and truthful.

therefore krishna asked yudhisthir to go nd say these lines, thereby asking him to do what was ethically wrong. so what is this? morality or immorality?

 krishna is ordering, and yudhisthir says "how can i say lie?" yudhisthir seems to be disobeying the order of krishna. so what is this? morality or immorality?

but arjun, he rejected all morality and immorality. he accepted krishna's order. what wud you call this? morality or immorality?

i know different ppl will come up with different answers and thats very true (... as i've said always) to their perception and line of thought(s).

p.s : my answer lies somewhere above ;)
 
Time and again , I see such threads on JL and it gives me confidence if not anything else!

Seeing similar participants and a couple of new faces again is pretty satisfying!

Always had the take that talking about the realms of human behaviour , emotions , ways of thinking is perhaps the most difficult thing to do and still believe the same ! Nothing can be absolute right or wrong and so is the case with the question Anju has posed!

Let me stimulate the discussion if not add any insight to the subject matter.
I was wondering a few days back that there are always baskets(groups) of people and having exactly contradictory views! Let me concretise what I just said! think over these statements of mine:
1) There will always be N number of people supporting the views of a person who is immoral as per you!
2) There will always be M number of people supporting your own views!

Group behaviour is widely prevalent , examples can be seen on JL. It is just because you always try to justify your own behaviour and find solace in actions of people who act simiar to you! Psychology calls this as some kind of bias ( I forgot the terminology!)

Now if groupism is there , it is pretty tricky to define what is right and what is wrong! Becasue one cannot prove by experiment or by majority that what you percieve as right is actually right! :) Who knows one fine day you wake up only to realise that may be wahtever you have done whole your life was wrong? May be you could have done a lot better ! What if your children come and tell you that you were wrong ( Scary , right ? ) ! :)


So much so for the relativeness of morality!

Let's examine the temporal stabili ty of moral values! Are they consistent over time ? I have unconsciously felt that I have a certain small set of ethics so to say which define my behaviour! Unfortunately never jot them down somewhere to test whether they stand the test of time! Then there is situation specific confusions. What if the situation demands something that is against your short set of ethics?
What about the classical duel of conscience vs Mind ?
Logical reasoning leads you to opt for one scenario and your ethics demand something else! W aht if you got a "moral" blow from someone ? Is not Tit for Tat a good strategy ? Why leave it to God to take the "moral" revenge for yourself! :)

How about my orkute fortune as of today : :)
Today's fortune: Never let your sense of morals get in the way of doing what's right


Enough of stimulation I believe and before you all curse me for a lengthy post once again , let me objectively answer some of the questions posed by author:

1) No , following religion or adhering to customs does not make us moral , we evolve every second , we cannot live on the old structure , customs and traditions are something to be taken as foundation and to be built upon! Customise them for your age , life , situations!
2) Elders do help you in putting up a broad range of options in front of you! Use axiom of choice to pick up the best for yourself!
3) "Win-Win" (ohh , did i write that :D ) , Anju what if the win-win does not exist ? Or what if the other player does not want you to win at any cost ? :)
4) Basis of my morals values : My parents , my mind , my experiences in life , my thought process ( Did not Vijay summed it up all when he said that there is so thin a line between moral values and way of thinking ! , Correlation of sorts! )! Let me extrapolate Vijay by saying that there is also an unconscious feedback mechanism prevalent between your thoughts and actions! Actions will impact your thoughts as well and the vice versa is trivial!

Let's take this forward , hoping to hear from others as well!

Meanwhile I also have a topic , but lets waut for this to conclude ;)
 
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